"Women attracted to Macho Men much more than to 'modest' males"

[Confused100]

I guess it may not come as a surprise to many people, but I found the article interesting...

 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/196477.php

 

The idea that a modern man who is modest and metrosexual has features women find attractive appears to be a myth, according to a new study published in the peer-reviewed journal Psychology of Men and Masculinity. Researchers found that females see modesty and men's feminine side as a big turn-off.

 

The authors wrote that adherence to masculine norms (being macho) and stereotypes had been linked to negative consequences for men. They wanted to determine whether it were really true that "liberating men from the bonds of traditional masculinity would be beneficial".

 

Rather than confirming recent opinions and suggestions, the researchers found the opposite. Females, it appears, find the rise of non-macho men sexually unappealing. Modesty was perceived as a poor character trait which could undermine employment and earning potential.

 

The study involved 132 female and 100 male volunteers. They had to watch a 15-minute video of job interviews of male and female actors. Although most of the videos showed people with similar competences for the job, females liked the modest males much less. The male volunteers, on the other hand, were not put off by female modesty.

 

The authors wrote:

Modest men were perceived as violating men's proscriptions linked to low status (e.g., weakness and uncertainty), as well as agentic men's prescriptions linked to high status (e.g., confidence and ambition).

Psychologist Corrine Ross-Racusin, study leader, said:

"For men and women, there are things they must and must not be. Women must be communal and other-oriented, but they must not be dominant. Historically and cross-culturally, men have been stereotyped as more independent and self-focused than women. Women are allowed to be weak while this trait is strongly prohibited in men. By contrast, dominance is reserved for men and prohibited for women. Thus, gender stereotypes are comprised of four sets of rules and expectations for behaviour consist of both 'should' and 'should notes' for each gender.

The researchers stressed that a man's modesty is not linked to his chances of getting a job - the report focused on how the sexes perceived each other.

I guess that's not good news for me...

[SassyKitten]

It's societal conditioning. It will die out in good time.

[witabix]

Its already dead. What was the demographic of the respondents. I will bet no one under thirty.

 

Younger women want to be the new 'males' with all the old baggage that this requires. Violence, arrogance, ignorance and dominance. The wheel turns.

 

Feminists, bite me.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I guess it may not come as a surprise to many people, but I found the article interesting...

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/196477.php

I guess that's not good news for me...

 

NOOOOO!!!! Not this stupid article again! :lmao:

 

I'm so tired of these gender war threads... It was kind of fun at first... but I'm just burned out.

[SassyKitten]

Ah, probably inspired by the gender war threads.

 

And I am quickly coming to the conclusion after today that this us vs. them mentality is ****ing up dating for everyone.

[Confused100]

NOOOOO!!!! Not this stupid article again! :lmao:

 

I'm so tired of these gender war threads... It was kind of fun at first... but I'm just burned out.

 

Sorry! It was a new study so I figured I'd share it

[sagetalk]

Any guy with any knowledge of dating women knows this. I can't believe these people probably got paid to do this study. Maybe I should do a study to see if drinking water is good for you .

[purgatori]

It's societal conditioning. It will die out in good time.

 

What's 'good time'? Another few million years, or more? The preferences of heterosexual women are remarkably consistent across all of recorded human history, and beyond (if genetic studies are anything to go by); suggesting that biological determinants play a greater role than social conditioning.

 

Either way, this only reaffirms my hatred of straight women and their messed-up values.

Edited August 2, 2010 by purgatori

[Green]

Well the article only talked about 130 something women. and a hundred men.

 

Well I'm only one man but through out my life I've had the oportunity to socialy interact and observe thousands of women.. and yes most prefer a tough guy over a 'modest' pick.

[jamesum]

Where did this experiment take place?

 

Conduct the same experiment in Scandinavia or Eastern Asia and the result will be different.

 

America has always been culturally a macho society due to the historical influence of Victorian and Latin cultures.

 

Well I'm only one man but through out my life I've had the oportunity to socialy interact and observe thousands of women.. and yes most prefer a tough guy over a 'modest' pick.

And they complain when those guys end up beating them up.

[skydiveaddict]

What's 'good time'? Another few million years, or more? The preferences of heterosexual women are remarkably consistent across all of recorded human history, and beyond (if genetic studies are anything to go by); suggesting that biological determinants play a greater role than social conditioning.

 

Either way, this only reaffirms my hatred of straight women and their messed-up values.

 

 

You are entirely correct. Yet ask any woman and she will tell you she wants a "nice" guy. What a crock of crap

[jamesum]

You are entirely correct. Yet ask any woman and she will tell you she wants a "nice" guy. What a crock of crap

If you wanna be a nice guy, go live in Asia.

 

Asian women like polite men and hate 'tough guys'.

 

Blame the culture, not the people.

 

Humans are the children of their environment.

[purgatori]

I think people already know biological determinants play a greater role than social conditioning. The problem doesn't lie within the ladies.

 

The problem lies within men, that social conditioning has over taken the male biological impulses of masculinity.

 

Now we, as men, can sit here and say it's not fair we grew up in an era of feminism, social conditioning, grew up with a mom and 3 sisters, etc...

 

But we don't, men don't make excuses. We take responsibility into our own hands, we don't fault women for wanting to choose macho men over modest males. We learn to be macho, we get in touch with our inner masculinity.

 

The next thread should be a help thread on how modest males should become macho men.

 

Who knows I might even conjure up a list sometime in the future

 

F--- that, f--- you, and f--- your 'list.' Masculinity is no kind of ideal to aspire to -- especially not for me. I would rather die than be any more masculine than I already am; even if that means that wannabe alpha-males like you disapprove, and that I am a totally unappealing creature in the eyes of women.

 

@Jamesum: Not true. Women in Asia are exactly the same, and perhaps even slightly moreso in those Asian countries where women are still raised to be financially dependent on men.

[skydiveaddict]

If you wanna be a nice guy, go live in Asia.

 

Asian women like polite men and hate 'tough guys'.

 

Blame the culture, not the people.

 

Humans are the children of their environment.

 

 

 

Who says I'm a nice guy? I'm just pointing out facts

[jamesum]

@Jamesum: Not true. Women in Asia are exactly the same, and perhaps even slightly moreso in those Asian countries where women are still raised to be financially dependent on men.

Errr, I grew up in an Asian country.

 

Yes, Asian women want traditional men who can provide for the family, but how is that relevant?

 

Being a nice guy has zero to do with financial capability. Nerds have more money than anyone else.

[Green]

Where did this experiment take place?

 

Conduct the same experiment in Scandinavia or Eastern Asia and the result will be different.

 

America has always been culturally a macho society due to the historical influence of Victorian and Latin cultures.

 

And they complain when those guys end up beating them up.

 

Look this experiment just sounds bogus.

 

But I know the world I live in.

 

I have also travled the world and women seem to like Men who act like sterio typical Men.

 

While I agree men in europe can come off as feminine compared to the US ideal... women in those countries still respond well to good old fashioned manly confidence aka hornyness.

 

As for guys who beat up women I think that is a completely different issue. I had a girl confide in me that her bf was slapping her around, even kicked her and he was a very feminen man. I actualy think that most men agree that it isn't tough to fight women but instead a weak cowardly thing to do.

 

F--- that, f--- you, and f--- your 'list.' Masculinity is no kind of ideal to aspire to -- especially not for me. I would rather die than be any more masculine than I already am; even if that means that wannabe alpha-males like you disapprove, and that I am a totally unappealing creature in the eyes of women.

 

@Jamesum: Not true. Women in Asia are exactly the same, and perhaps even slightly moreso in those Asian countries where women are still raised to be financially dependent on men.

 

There is no such thing as an alpha male. The term is based on out dated disproven observation of wolves. The comparison doesn't hold up at all.

 

Purgatori the fact is a lot of women like men who act like "spike" or "angelus" ect...

 

It doesn't mean that all women are the same. Just as you are different from most guys there are girls who are different from all girls.

[skydiveaddict]

You are wrong, you are either the leader of the pack or one of the subdued followers

[purgatori]

Errr, I grew up in an Asian country.

 

Yes, Asian women want traditional men who can provide for the family, but how is that relevant?

 

Being a nice guy has zero to do with financial capability. Nerds have more money than anyone else.

 

Well, 'traditional men' are masculine/macho men You are right though, that one can be both a "nice guy", and financially well-off, business savvy, etc. But that doesn't change the fact that women still interpret not-so-nice qualities as being cues/indicators of a guy's capacity to be a good provider. In cultures where the male is expected to be the sole provider, such cues become all the more salient.

 

It doesn't mean that all women are the same. Just as you are different from most guys there are girls who are different from all girls.

 

Right, they're called "lesbians."

[jamesum]

Look this experiment just sounds bogus.

 

But I know the world I live in.

 

I have also travled the world and women seem to like Men who act like sterio typical Men.

 

While I agree men in europe can come off as feminine compared to the US ideal... women in those countries still respond well to good old fashioned manly confidence aka hornyness.

Of course, just like men around the world are inclined to prefer feminine women.

 

I was just pointing out that there are cultures in other parts of the world where things are more different in comparison to the extreme masculinity of American society.

 

 

As for guys who beat up women I think that is a completely different issue. I had a girl confide in me that her bf was slapping her around, even kicked her and he was a very feminen man. I actualy think that most men agree that it isn't tough to fight women but instead a weak cowardly thing to do.

Nice guys aren't feminine guys. Why do people equate the two?

 

Im a nice guy in the sense that Im not one of those typical aggressive 'bad boy' kind of men who spend hours at the gym and act tough all the time.

[USMCHokie]

Im a nice guy in the sense that Im not one of those typical aggressive 'bad boy' kind of men who spend hours at the gym and act tough all the time.

 

Woah there...I hope that you're not implying that the converse is true...

[Sanman]

A few things that I have to point out here. I haven't fully read the study to critique it's design and outcomes. However, thousands of years of evolution have favored the idea that modesty does not get you anywhere. This is why many women like to be asked out and like a man to take charge. It really hasn't died out. Even strong independent women like an independent assertive man. Despite the fact that it is not currently politically correct to admit, it will remain the truth. Everyone likes a winner.

 

Beating a women or getting into fights isn't alpha male behavior, it is stupid, insecure behavior. I recently had a drunk friend hit on a married woman with her husband within earshot. The husband then tried to get into a fight with my friend. I have had other men hit on my gf, I simply let them know she is with and that I agree that she is attractive and that is why I am with her. I have no problem with other men hitting on my girl since I don't fear my girl having interest in them. That is being the alpha male and showing confidence. Then again, I am 6'1" with broad shoulders and the build of a former bodybuilder, amateur boxer, and martial artist. Most respond to simply seeing that I am with said woman by backing down and apologizing. Those that do not and make my gf uncomfortable are politely, but firmly asked to please leave and given the option to step outside if they would like to continue their behavior. I have never felt the urge to lay a hand on a woman because I am confident in myself and my abilities. Women choose to be with me because of who I am and I do not need to degrade them or hurt to make them feel that way. To the contrary, I have chosen to be with them for a reason and that is generally because they are amazing human beings who deserve to be cherished.

[purgatori]

A few things that I have to point out here. I haven't fully read the study to critique it's design and outcomes. However, thousands of years of evolution have favored the idea that modesty does not get you anywhere. This is why many women like to be asked out and like a man to take charge. It really hasn't died out. Even strong independent women like an independent assertive man. Despite the fact that it is not currently politically correct to admit, it will remain the truth. Everyone likes a winner.

 

Beating a women or getting into fights isn't alpha male behavior, it is stupid, insecure behavior. I recently had a drunk friend hit on a married woman with her husband within earshot. The husband then tried to get into a fight with my friend. I have had other men hit on my gf, I simply let them know she is with and that I agree that she is attractive and that is why I am with her. I have no problem with other men hitting on my girl since I don't fear my girl having interest in them. That is being the alpha male and showing confidence. Then again, I am 6'1" with broad shoulders and the build of a former bodybuilder, amateur boxer, and martial artist. Most respond to simply seeing that I am with said woman by backing down and apologizing. Those that do not and make my gf uncomfortable are politely, but firmly asked to please leave and given the option to step outside if they would like to continue their behavior. I have never felt the urge to lay a hand on a woman because I am confident in myself and my abilities. Women choose to be with me because of who I am and I do not need to degrade them or hurt to make them feel that way. To the contrary, I have chosen to be with them for a reason and that is generally because they are amazing human beings who deserve to be cherished.

 

You call yourself a 'winner', but to me, you're just a 'wanker', with all the personality of an avil; and I don't like you in the least. And I'm not just saying that to be 'politically correct.'

[zengirl]

This is the same article/study that someone posted awhile back from a British magazine. It made its way across the pond apparently. The study seems to have more to do with employment than relationships the way it is set up. It says more about how men get a job than how they get laid.

 

I've seen plenty of nice guys do alright. Doormats do crappy, but that's true for doormats of either gender.

 

If you wanna be a nice guy, go live in Asia.

 

Asian women like polite men and hate 'tough guys'.

 

Blame the culture, not the people.

 

Humans are the children of their environment.

 

That is so not even a little bit true. I live in Korea. Their own brand of machismo is way more lively here than in the U.S. Dutch? Unheard of here. And Korean marriages? Way higher domestic violence rates than America boasts (and it's rarely prosecuted here). The majority of households are set up with a homemaker in the house. The work culture expects men in large-company (Samsung, etc) jobs to go out drinking for hours on end after a 10 hour day, sometimes at "room salons" (the sex trade is very active here and while swept over by most folks, it is consciously done and consciously not prosecuted by the very male-biased authorities) which are basically stripclub+hooker services. Working, married men spend far less time at home, on average than in the U.S. It is a much more male-dominated culture than the U.S. to the point where it is ingrained in the Confucian culture that women are lower than men (just as elders are higher than youths) and that is only just beginning to change.

 

Not to say there aren't Korean nice guys (I dated one, but he was a bit Westernized), but the "nice Asian guy" culture you're referring to is a myth. Now, Canadians. . . (Just kidding, I have no idea.)

Edited August 2, 2010 by zengirl

[Green]

Of course, just like men around the world are inclined to prefer feminine women.

 

I was just pointing out that there are cultures in other parts of the world where things are more different in comparison to the extreme masculinity of American society.

 

 

Nice guys aren't feminine guys. Why do people equate the two?

 

Im a nice guy in the sense that Im not one of those typical aggressive 'bad boy' kind of men who spend hours at the gym and act tough all the time.

 

Now this was a good post. Its very true as a man I prefer more feminine women. I also find the same to be true for other guys. Not science but its fact in my mind.

 

A few things that I have to point out here. I haven't fully read the study to critique it's design and outcomes. However, thousands of years of evolution have favored the idea that modesty does not get you anywhere. This is why many women like to be asked out and like a man to take charge. It really hasn't died out. Even strong independent women like an independent assertive man. Despite the fact that it is not currently politically correct to admit, it will remain the truth. Everyone likes a winner.

 

Beating a women or getting into fights isn't alpha male behavior, it is stupid, insecure behavior. I recently had a drunk friend hit on a married woman with her husband within earshot. The husband then tried to get into a fight with my friend. I have had other men hit on my gf, I simply let them know she is with and that I agree that she is attractive and that is why I am with her. I have no problem with other men hitting on my girl since I don't fear my girl having interest in them. That is being the alpha male and showing confidence. Then again, I am 6'1" with broad shoulders and the build of a former bodybuilder, amateur boxer, and martial artist. Most respond to simply seeing that I am with said woman by backing down and apologizing. Those that do not and make my gf uncomfortable are politely, but firmly asked to please leave and given the option to step outside if they would like to continue their behavior. I have never felt the urge to lay a hand on a woman because I am confident in myself and my abilities. Women choose to be with me because of who I am and I do not need to degrade them or hurt to make them feel that way. To the contrary, I have chosen to be with them for a reason and that is generally because they are amazing human beings who deserve to be cherished.

 

Also a great post. The fact of the matter is getting in fights and hurting women and children is NOT alpha behavior. It is most likely the behavior of a weak stressed out person. Lower ranked baboons are more likely to be agressive and fight and the higher level baboons are more likely to avoid confrontation when not necesary... they also get all the sex and best food and living area.

 

You call yourself a 'winner', but to me, you're just a 'wanker', with all the personality of an avil; and I don't like you in the least. And I'm not just saying that to be 'politically correct.'

 

You actualy prove his point perfectly. You admittadly view yourself as out of touch with society and unable to form a relationship with a woman. Take a look at yourself and see how angry and agressive you are when you make posts like this.

 

Seriously purgatori don't ever give up on yourself.

[espec10001]

You are wrong, you are either the leader of the pack or one of the subdued followers

 

hahaha. We all serve somebody or something, there is no exception. No matter how powerful and mighty a man is; he is still and always will be a follower.