kdark Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 MrNate, sounds like an honest and forthright woman is what you are looking for. Finding a girl who doesn't force you to play a guessing game to find out what is wrong with her is a wonderful thing indeed. Not saying they are rare, but it just a trait that is hard to discern during the early stages of dating.
dispatch3d Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Sorry about that. It can be said that there's some (not all, some) that say that submissiveness is a desirable female trait, which does cause headache for many including myself. the male lion sits around all day and has his females bring him food. He's mostly just there for sex (tht's all he wants). If someone challenges him, he roars+fights to the death (if necessary). Nobody ****s with him. The alphamale of the pride screws all the females. If another male tries to call dibs he beats them into submission (or he loses his alphamale status). Guess what - hormonially we are similar/the same as these animals. Biggest alphamale wins - not necessarily the strongest but IT HELPS to be able to fight anyone. Women look for a man with a higher social status than themselves - someone who is "better" than them. Who will improve THEIR lives. Since they are the selectors, they get to do this. Guys approach and approach and approach adn eventually a guy exists who is a higher social value than you, and you're like yeah he's cute I'll date him. And what happens as a result? Well if you want to date someone cooler, you will probably HAVE TO take a submissive role. Although you don't necessarily have to say "submissive", it's more just he leads you follow. He provides you nuture. You get to chose. Good looking women get sex when they want it as much as they want it. Good looking men aren't guaranteed ****. Be happy about it .
Author MrNate Posted August 2, 2010 Author Posted August 2, 2010 MrNate, sounds like an honest and forthright woman is what you are looking for. Finding a girl who doesn't force you to play a guessing game to find out what is wrong with her is a wonderful thing indeed. Not saying they are rare, but it just a trait that is hard to discern during the early stages of dating. This is true. I definitely place a big priority on those because I just don't ever want to wind up wasting my time with something that could be false, along with no communication. I guess I'm just very picky about not wasting my time, because in this world, you can replace a lot of things, but you can not replace time spent.
Chicago_Guy Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 When it comes to men "being at one with their sexuality", to me that suggests the sexuality that has long been promoted by institutions such as Playboy. And it amazes me how men get defensive that they aren't entitled to my pussy just because they've taken me out on one date. And also, thinking back to the partners I have had, less than 1 in 4 have seemed to care about whether I have an orgasm or not. If this is them being "at one with their sexuality", it's not a healthy way. Many women will lie back and fool themselves into thinking they enjoy it, but not me. Based on what you wrote in the paragraph above, it is pretty obvious to most guys that you have primarily been dating players who don't care about your needs. A man who is truly interested in you will want to please you in bed.
Sphere Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I think it turned south because of this. Yes, Sphere, your father should have been a man and went to work, and left you or your sibling to rot and die if your mother couldn't take care of you. Totally makes sense. My father abandoned my mother when I was four years old, my sibling is a half sibling and I do not acknowledge him as my brother, to me he is an extended member of the family at best. He was raised by my father, I wasn't. I was raised by my mother and my immediate family. So how dare you say my mother couldn't cope, my mother is the strongest person I have ever known.
Woggle Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Women in many cases don't want equal relationships either. I am starting to believe that a woman almost has to look up to a man and put him above her in order to stay attracted. I don't like this state of affairs but this is how things are and independent women are the worst. They want an alpha who doesn't show any hint of emotion or vulnerability yet complain when men don't want a ballbuster. My ex wife flat out told me she lost attraction for me when I cried at my best friend's funeral. This is okay but I am supposed to become attracted to masculine women. Most men I know who tried to have an equal relationship with a liberated woman ended up divorced or miserable.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Dispatch3d - That's bull****, and if I had a dollar for every time I heard a man use "hormones" as an excuse to be a jerk, I could hire a gigalo to cater to my needs for the rest of my life. We're primates, and here http://anthro.palomar.edu/behavior/behave_2.htm is a link to the various types of behavioral patterns among primates. Some women may actively seek "cooler", sure, but I seek a partner. And we provide each other nurture. I am an adult, the only time any man ever gets to tell me what to do is if he's my manager at work. And if that's why I'm single, so be it. Woggle - This is another unfortunate by-product of that crazy thing called brainwashing. Men are brainwashed that they have to be the dominant one, women are brainwashed to be weak and submissive and to seek out a man who reinforces these roles. I'm sorry about what your ex-wife did to you at your friend's funeral. That's unfortunate. And it's unhealthy to suppress anyone from crying, even if it's because they're a man. There have been many studies done to show that the suppression of powerful emotions like that does long term physical and emotional damage. Sphere - I'm sorry to hear that, and your father is weak. He's weak not for staying home to raise your sibling, but is weak for leaving you and your mother. Chicago - A man doesn't have to have a lot of notches on his bedpost to be a player, he can also be a player if he strings women along or gets off on screwing tham emotionally. I've also had the experience of men who care very much about my orgasm but only in the sense to satisfy their own ego. MrNate - Looks like a few threads got hijacked! Good thread though, and time is a terrible thing to waste.
Sphere Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Sphere - I'm sorry to hear that, and your father is weak. He's weak not for staying home to raise your sibling, but is weak for leaving you and your mother. I'm not sorry, everything in our lives happens for a reason. No, I thank my father for showing me the difference between males like him and men. My father is a male and I am a man. He has also shown me how not to be a father and how not be a husband. So I thank him for that. If you can learn from your parents mistakes then I believe you have what it takes to become a successful person in this world and you will footprints on the souls of those whom you meet in this life.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I'm not sorry, everything in our lives happens for a reason. No, I thank my father for showing me the difference between males like him and men. My father is a male and I am a man. He has also shown me how not to be a father and how not be a husband. So I thank him for that. If you can learn from your parents mistakes then I believe you have what it takes to become a successful person in this world and you will footprints on the souls of those whom you meet in this life. It's not staying at home with your sibling that made him less of a man, though I can understand where it's natural to dispise him for his abandonment. And as for a glimpse for what I learned not to be through my parents: My parents met in high school. He was from an extremely wealthy family, she was from an extremely poor family. This was in the 1950s, when things were very different. Her family encouraged them being together as he was a source of money. My mother had started a nursing course, which my father ordered her to quit as soon as they were married. In fact, there is a rumor in my family that the only reason they even got married is because she faked being pregnant. In any case, she was a golddigger, he was a nerd, and they were married. In 1961 my brother was born, in 1962 my sister. My mother never worked, and didn't need to as my father was bringing in a fortune off of his businesses every year. I wasn't around for their upbringing, but if it was anything like mine, it was completely full of physical and mental abuse. Also, I know that my father's alcoholism started somewhere in the 1970s Shortly before my birth, both of my siblings had left the house. There was no reason for them to stay married just because there were children. So my mother went off of brith control and I was born in 1982. She claimed that the reason for the long wait was because of kidney stones, but I'm not stupid, 20 years worth of kidney stones would kill you. I don't remember much of my childhood, except to say that I lived in constant fear of having the **** beat out of me. In fact, I still have a scar(fortunately not too visible) on my forehead and back problems from being pushed around so many times. What led to my parents finally divorcing when I was 13 was my father being arrested multiple times for DUIs. So I lived with my mother, and she had to re-enter the workforce after 35 years as a housewife, at minimum wage. She turned even more violent on me, and constantly blamed me for making my father drink more and cutting her off from her sugardaddy. I don't speak to them anymore. In fact, the only family I speak to are my brother's children and my brother's ex-wife. In fact, the cycle continued with my brother being domineering and violent towards his family. Due to which I have lost all respect for him as well. That's my personal history as much as I will ever post on here. What I have learned from this is that it is dangerous for the woman to stay at home with the kids and trust that the man will be there for them. And even if the man is decent, he could die, and the family still needs to survive. And also, the idea that a man should be the leader by default just because he's the man is dangerous. Both parents are adults, and it's the responsibility of both to provide and to protect. And besides, 2 leaders working as a cohesive unit are always stronger than 1.
Sphere Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 SassyKitten, you really need to brush up on your literacy skills because for a woman who is supposedly in the top 1% academically in your country, you often fail to understand what I'm saying. You read it and come out with a totally different conclusion to what I have and it is me who is typing this stuff up.
zengirl Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) Since my name was brought up and this has devolved into the natural fight between genders that LS loves. . . some thoughts: Zengirl pointed out in a thread one time the difference between equal and same. I do want a woman that will be my equal. A woman that I will be proud to have with me and can respect. I want a woman that is damn good at being a woman. I don't want to feel like I'm with another man. In regards to intellect... you and Shadow have a very narrow view of this. The guys that want airheads are typically dumb themselves or have massive control issues... so they are very easy to spot and avoid. Men like me (I have a B.S. in Bio Research) want a woman that is smart. That doesn't mean she needs to be able to discuss particle physics. There are many different ways to be intelligent, and it doesn't have to be the same as me! My one key is that I want a woman that has a passion for learning new things. Are you starting to get the picture? Don't misunderstand guys... Do you want to just be the female version of all these bitter idiots that believe women are all like this or that? As I recall it was more of a disagreement. I don't believe much in rigid gender issues. . . I'll discuss them, sure, like the paying on dates. But that's mostly in terms of what statistically happens. . . The problem is I find gender to be rather fluid, and we're finally admitting it as a society (at least a little). Gender and sexuality are both on a spectrum. I don't think there has to be a dominant/submissive in any relationship (nor do I think that idea is healthy), and I've experienced having a partnership with someone. Every woman is a woman, even those you think are "acting like men." Every man is a man. Your notion of being a "woman" is antiquated. I am every bit a woman, and yet I'll always be self-sufficient, I'm not afraid of approaching a fellow, I've made more money than men I've dated (less sometimes too), and I've certainly never felt afraid to speak my mind. I certainly consider myself a feminist, though here that idea is put in contexts where it makes no darn sense, as feminism is about rights and laws to me, not dating mores and interpersonal spats. Look: A man's role and a woman's role is just lame. When I was sick as a kid, my step-father had more flexibility with his job, so he was the one who could stay home with me and take care of me usually, when my Mom couldn't without fear of losing her job. He helped me with my homework. He made my breakfast every morning because my Mom left earlier than us. He even ironed my jeans when I was in junior high (and then taught me how to iron them myself when I went into 9th grade and he said I was too old to have anybody ironing my things). I suppose these things aren't "manly" and his part in the child-rearing might be strange to some, but people work things out as individuals, not as random gender stereotypes. (And those examples are just some of the "woman's work" type things he did; it's not like my mother didn't contribute just as much to the household; they both contributed to my upbringing and they both contribute to the household, financially and emotionally.) That's just what I've seen in every single healthy relationship I've ever seen or experienced. Anyone worried about whether they're acting like a "man" or a "woman" (or whether their partner is) strikes me as a bit nutty and missing the point. The notion of dominant vs. submissive in a relationship comes from people who believe the world is "Control or be controlled." Those are the unhealthy people. When you congregate with the healthy people who realize the world isn't about control at all, or at least being happy in it isn't and love certainly isn't, then the issue becomes altogether moot. I do think most smart men I've met have also liked smart women, though. I didn't take any offense to that not coming up in the thread, personally, and am surprised that such a fight erupted. I think the fellow who said "Emotional health" hit it on the button. More people of both genders should find that sexy. Women in many cases don't want equal relationships either. I am starting to believe that a woman almost has to look up to a man and put him above her in order to stay attracted. I don't like this state of affairs but this is how things are and independent women are the worst. They want an alpha who doesn't show any hint of emotion or vulnerability yet complain when men don't want a ballbuster. My ex wife flat out told me she lost attraction for me when I cried at my best friend's funeral. This is okay but I am supposed to become attracted to masculine women. Most men I know who tried to have an equal relationship with a liberated woman ended up divorced or miserable. I think it depends upon the woman. I think emotionally healthy men and women want equal relationships, but a lot of the world isn't emotionally healthy. All the successful relationships I know are equal partnerships, more about the individual than the gender. Your ex wife sounds like a jerk, Woggle. I've seen a lot of my long-term exes cry or be emotionally vulnerable, and I never thought less of them for it. Most men I know realize that one of the great benefits of being with a good partner is being able to find someone to be emotionally vulnerable with. You should always feel safe and supported by your partner. (That said, with your views being what they are, I'm not surprised you'd be attracted to that type of women; the truly "independent" women? They don't need a man to act like he has no emotions.) Then again, I just think all people should be nurturing and kind in their own ways. Originally Posted by Sphere And anyway, a woman carries a baby around for nine months, so she should be at home for the first few years of its life looking after it. This is the silliest thing I've heard in awhile. Look, I don't care if a fellow says he wants to marry a woman who will be a homemaker (so long as he's willing to support her well and give her ample alimony and child support if things don't go well; no hypocrisy or free rides). . . that's his prerogative, and while it wouldn't be my cuppa or my worldview, it doesn't bother me if he realizes it's what's best for him in his mind and doesn't go on about it being better for the (future) child, society, etc. Though your attitude about it is startling and angry in points. But trying to re-institute and cling to outdated social mores is lame. In my view, child-rearing shouldn't be the sole responsibility of either parent. If some parents want to specialize (i.e. "I'll pay for the kid and take him to the zoo on Sundays; you take care of the rest while I work") that is totally up to them, but it's lame to act like it's only natural or the best framework for society. At any rate, continue on, boys. I'm surprised I went away to teach camp today, and this thread got ugly but-quick! Edited August 2, 2010 by zengirl
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 SassyKitten, you really need to brush up on your literacy skills because for a woman who is supposedly in the top 1% academically in your country, you often fail to understand what I'm saying. You read it and come out with a totally different conclusion to what I have and it is me who is typing this stuff up. Well judging by some other replies, I'm clearly not the only one who's reading your posts this way. So you really need to brush up on your composition skills.
Sphere Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Well judging by some other replies, I'm clearly not the only one who's reading your posts this way. So you really need to brush up on your composition skills. The reason I have such a lack of respect for my father isn't because he was a stay at home father. It was because he is like so many males, a child at heart and not a man. Men are very rare in modern society, they are almost as rare as the total eclipse.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Another reason to brush up on your composition skills, as in one of your earlier posts you wrote "My father is a weak and pathetic man, he stayed at home to raise one of his children". Before this thread turned ugly, someone wrote a desirable female trait is to say what you mean and mean what you say. Same goes for men.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Since my name was brought up and this has devolved into the natural fight between genders that LS loves. . . some thoughts: As I recall it was more of a disagreement. I don't believe much in rigid gender issues. . . I'll discuss them, sure, like the paying on dates. But that's mostly in terms of what statistically happens. . . The problem is I find gender to be rather fluid, and we're finally admitting it as a society (at least a little). Gender and sexuality are both on a spectrum. I don't think there has to be a dominant/submissive in any relationship (nor do I think that idea is healthy), and I've experienced having a partnership with someone. Every woman is a woman, even those you think are "acting like men." Every man is a man. Your notion of being a "woman" is antiquated. I am every bit a woman, and yet I'll always be self-sufficient, I'm not afraid of approaching a fellow, I've made more money than men I've dated (less sometimes too), and I've certainly never felt afraid to speak my mind. Yes, it was a disagreement at the time.... however, you made a fantastic point. This thread is about attractive qualities in women. Men are attracted to women that are feminine. Women who look and act like women. Sexual dimorphism is NOT A BAD THING.
Shakz Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Yes, it was a disagreement at the time.... however, you made a fantastic point. This thread is about attractive qualities in women. Men are attracted to women that are feminine. Women who look and act like women. Sexual dimorphism is NOT A BAD THING. Well, yes, gender roles are always in a state of flux. Sex roles, however, never change.
zengirl Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Yes, it was a disagreement at the time.... however, you made a fantastic point. This thread is about attractive qualities in women. Men are attracted to women that are feminine. Women who look and act like women. Sexual dimorphism is NOT A BAD THING. My point is that there are loads of way to act like a woman. Everything a woman does is acting like a woman. It's silly to say otherwise. A tree is always acting like a tree, and nobody debates that. So too am I always acting like a woman. No matter what I do. (I'm not saying that all of those things have to be attractive to any given person --- or listed in this small sampling of a thread or anywhere at all ---- but saying any of them are not me "acting like a woman" just sounds like something silly my grandparents would come up with. It's tired, man. Women come in all forms. Deal with it.)
PDPullmn612 Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I'm a real goof ball and I like to joke around a lot so any girl that can keep up with my sense of humor and joke back is a complete turn on
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Well, yes, gender roles are always in a state of flux. Sex roles, however, never change. I love it! My point is that there are loads of way to act like a woman. Everything a woman does is acting like a woman. It's silly to say otherwise. A tree is always acting like a tree, and nobody debates that. So too am I always acting like a woman. No matter what I do. (I'm not saying that all of those things have to be attractive to any given person --- or listed in this small sampling of a thread or anywhere at all ---- but saying any of them are not me "acting like a woman" just sounds like something silly my grandparents would come up with. It's tired, man. Women come in all forms. Deal with it.) I agree that there are many ways to act like a woman. I don't agree that simply because you are a woman any action you make will be acting like a woman. The term "acting like a woman" infers that there is some standard to which we can gauge that. It's true that women come in all forms and act in all manner of ways and the same with men. I consider that diversity a good thing. It doesn't mean it's wrong to apply a standard to those actions so that we can describe it. It's only wrong if we try to enforce those standards via some type of governmental mechanism.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Well, yes, gender roles are always in a state of flux. Sex roles, however, never change. Touche!
Woggle Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 In my ideal world we would have gender equality and men and women would have relationships based on mutual love and respect. If it were up to me that is world we would have but that is not the world we live in and I feel that if I have to be a male sterotype to the point where I can't even show emotion after a friend is murdered then women should have to adhere to their roles as well. If I am stifled by gender roles then they should be as well. This is not the world I wish for but it is the one I live in. I have seen it many times where women look down a man who tries to have an equal relationship with her. My mother shouted from the rooftops about how much of a feminist she is but during arguments she said that if he were any kind of real man he would hit her back but he doesn't have the balls. I heard the same thing from my ex as well. I hear my two coworkers who brag about how they cheat on their husbands bringing in love letters and laughing at how pathetic they are. It almost seems like a man has to be a sexist pig these days if he doesn't want to get chewed up and spit out by women. I hate being this way but I see no other way to avoid being a doormat.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 In my ideal world we would have gender equality and men and women would have relationships based on mutual love and respect. If it were up to me that is world we would have but that is not the world we live in and I feel that if I have to be a male sterotype to the point where I can't even show emotion after a friend is murdered then women should have to adhere to their roles as well. If I am stifled by gender roles then they should be as well. This is not the world I wish for but it is the one I live in. I have seen it many times where women look down a man who tries to have an equal relationship with her. My mother shouted from the rooftops about how much of a feminist she is but during arguments she said that if he were any kind of real man he would hit her back but he doesn't have the balls. I heard the same thing from my ex as well. I hear my two coworkers who brag about how they cheat on their husbands bringing in love letters and laughing at how pathetic they are. It almost seems like a man has to be a sexist pig these days if he doesn't want to get chewed up and spit out by women. I hate being this way but I see no other way to avoid being a doormat. I have used the dig "be a man" a few times in arguments, but often only comments like that or about penis size will get a man's attention when he is being extra-stubborn. And so many men have been the stereotypical man with me, but that doesn't give me license to be the stereotypical woman with them. Not all men are like that, though unfortunately a disproportionately high number of those I've dated have been.
Woggle Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I am not being this way because of some payback but from what I have seen men with these attitude have better love lives and have happier marriages that last.
SassyKitten Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I am not being this way because of some payback but from what I have seen men with these attitude have better love lives and have happier marriages that last. True, but men with that attitude only have satisfactory relationships with women who are happy to be second best and cater to their men. Being a man doesn't mean be the boss of me.
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I have used the dig "be a man" a few times in arguments, but often only comments like that or about penis size will get a man's attention when he is being extra-stubborn. No... those are not "attention grabbers" those are statements that makes a guy hate your guts. If you used that with me I would dump you so fast... The things you say in an anger you cannot take back. You can apologize for all your worth but it's still there. Have you thought about some type of therapy or counseling? I think you may find it helpful.
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