brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 What to do? I'm currently seeing someone and I should break up with him. We are both in our late 20s. He's working on a GED, I am on my second master's degree. He drinks a lot, I grew up with alcoholic parents and avoid alcohol because sometime addiction is genetic. I just moved two hours away and he's considering a move in the opposite direction to be closer to his kid. I have three kids and don't want anymore, ever, he wants at least another child. I could go on. But here's where I am having trouble. He's fun to be around. He's smart and funny. I feel like I can relax and be myself around him in a way I can't with anyone else. We've been taking things very slowly and haven't even talked about exclusivity or anything like that yet. But after spending a weekend camping with him and hanging out, and knowing that he's not a good match for me, I still can't wait to either hear from him and have to keep myself from texting him just so I can be talking to him. Stupid, huh? So, how do I cut ties with him without ripping myself apart?
vestigalvirgin Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 He's fun to be around. He's smart and funny. I feel like I can relax and be myself around him in a way I can't with anyone else. You are able to relax around him and "be myself" because you don't really respect this guy. He can't be that smart if he hasn't event got his GED yet and he's in his late 20's. He's a heavy drinker. Fun to be around, well you always find friends to have fun with. IME most people who drink heavily base most of their social activities around their drinking in one way or another and since you're not a drinker I'm not sure where the attraction is. If you want to date "seriously," i.e. with the intention of trying to meet someone for a long term meaningful relationship, you need to set your standards WAY WAY higher than guys like this. You also need to judge on less transient characteristics then whether they are "fun"/"funny". What do you really want in a relationship and in a man? Decide that FIRST and then look for people who meet your criteria. Don't get involved with people who do not have what you are looking for in a man.
vestigalvirgin Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 So, how do I cut ties with him without ripping myself apart? Learn to accept the fact that you are entitled to better for yourself, you shouldn't be so grateful for the attentions of some heavy-drinking high school drop out loser. Which frankly is what this guy is. The question really you need to answer is what void in you is so deep that you would find this kind of guy satisfactory to fill it?
Serenitynow Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Can someone teach me how to be wrong on paper so I can get a date too ?
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Can someone teach me how to be wrong on paper so I can get a date too ? The "wrong on paper" stuff has come out gradually as I've gotten to know him better. I tend to keep things about myself private, because most guys tend to get so intimidated by me that they take off if I let too much out too soon. Because of this habit, I tend to be maybe overly respectful of others' pasts as well. Put another way, if I don't want to broadcast my degrees and all my accomplishments, why should I interrogate someone else about theirs? I got to know him before he told me he didn't have his GED, it bugs him and he's currently working on it through a program available in his town. The drinking is something else that he didn't come out and tell me, it took me being around him enough and talking with him enough to realize that he REALLY tends to over do it when he drinks. So there are "red flags". There's also the fact that people in general tend to bug me and I don't have a laundry list of long term relationships to draw from to know what to do. I don't want to be some nasty judgmental witch because I honestly like him. And part of it is pure selfishness on my part too I suppose.
TouchedByViolet Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Can someone teach me how to be wrong on paper so I can get a date too ? I second this request! Brainygirl, I remember the posts you had previously about a guy who you were spending time with and sleeping with. If I remember correctly you only spent time with him and had sex when HE wanted it. He was essentially using you (are these guys different?) Seems like you are attracted to men who ultimately will NOT form a relationship with you. I am certain this guy you have described has no intention of ever forming a serious relationship and not even exclusivity. Not to mention you yourself know you two are not compatible. Why do you keep going for these losers who treat you less than you are worth?
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 I second this request! Brainygirl, I remember the posts you had previously about a guy who you were spending time with and sleeping with. If I remember correctly you only spent time with him and had sex when HE wanted it. He was essentially using you just like this guy (assuming they are different) Seems like you are attracted to men who ultimately will NOT form a relationship with you. I am certain this guy you have described has no intention of ever forming a serious relationship and not even exclusivity. Not to mention you yourself know you two are not compatible. Why do you keep going for these losers who treat you less than you are worth? I think that is a very good question and I've been asking it of myself, and the short answer is that I don't know. I know that certain situations from my past sometimes make me feel like I am not as "good" as others. I know that as a child of alcoholic drug users sometimes I feel more "at home" in those crowds than in "normal" crowds. I know I WANT to attract and spend time with a different sort of person. But I honestly don't know how to go about it. . . . . if that makes any sense at all.
carhill Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Would you say he's an anomaly in your attraction experience, or not? Why? Another aspect to honestly consider is a single mom with three kids and a load of degrees in her late 20's can be intimidating and/or a turn-off to certain classes of men. It's possible this attraction style has been forged, in part, by that reality. Opinion? Looking back, I perhaps felt more at ease with such women (the female version of your guy) because they weren't really a challenge for me, in the sense that they really didn't challenge me to grow. It was comfortable. You can 'handle' this guy. That's another potential aspect to consider, and, if applicable, why you seek that comfort. I watched a similar dynamic evolve over the last few months with a close lady-friend's brother and a nurse he met. Without going into details, imagine a much older version of your dynamic. Everything is wrong on paper and now he's living with her, moving 400 miles to do so. In his case, it's what my generation calls 'womanizing skills', but I'm sure she genuinely likes him or she wouldn't be living with him. Smart gal, but whoa bad choices in men. She'd probably smack me for saying that. Even his sister called her and spoke to her privately about what she was getting into. No effect. So, some things to ponder. People-picker things. Hope it works out
stillafool Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 The "wrong on paper" stuff has come out gradually as I've gotten to know him better. I tend to keep things about myself private, because most guys tend to get so intimidated by me that they take off if I let too much out too soon. Because of this habit, I tend to be maybe overly respectful of others' pasts as well. Put another way, if I don't want to broadcast my degrees and all my accomplishments, why should I interrogate someone else about theirs? I got to know him before he told me he didn't have his GED, it bugs him and he's currently working on it through a program available in his town. The drinking is something else that he didn't come out and tell me, it took me being around him enough and talking with him enough to realize that he REALLY tends to over do it when he drinks. So there are "red flags". There's also the fact that people in general tend to bug me and I don't have a laundry list of long term relationships to draw from to know what to do. I don't want to be some nasty judgmental witch because I honestly like him. And part of it is pure selfishness on my part too I suppose. But, didn't you guys talk before you went out on your first date, during your dates enough to find out some of these things before you became involved in a relationship with him?
LoveLace Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I don't think there is a way to do what you are asking...end it without it being painful for you. You enjoy his company and love him being around, so I think it's going to "rip" you apart no matter what...you have the courage to end it because you know it's all wrong for you...but you'll have to sacrifice your heart in the process, that's the way it goes. I've been in love with a guy that has had hardly anything going for him, compared to myself, but for a long time, his company and the way he made me feel over shadowed the fact that I could never take him home to mom and dad. To this day I still hate that he's not in my life anymore, I still think of him very often and miss him, and want to call him, because that is just how happy I was when he was around...but in the end, not what I deserve and very wrong for me. So I know exactly how your feeling. Too many times in life do we meet people that we wish we could make a life with but in reality, know we can not. It's the "but" that gets you...he's sooo great, but...we have to wait until one comes along that we can't find a "but" for. Good luck.
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Would you say he's an anomaly in your attraction experience, or not? Why? Another aspect to honestly consider is a single mom with three kids and a load of degrees in her late 20's can be intimidating and/or a turn-off to certain classes of men. It's possible this attraction style has been forged, in part, by that reality. Opinion? Looking back, I perhaps felt more at ease with such women (the female version of your guy) because they weren't really a challenge for me, in the sense that they really didn't challenge me to grow. It was comfortable. You can 'handle' this guy. That's another potential aspect to consider, and, if applicable, why you seek that comfort. I watched a similar dynamic evolve over the last few months with a close lady-friend's brother and a nurse he met. Without going into details, imagine a much older version of your dynamic. Everything is wrong on paper and now he's living with her, moving 400 miles to do so. In his case, it's what my generation calls 'womanizing skills', but I'm sure she genuinely likes him or she wouldn't be living with him. Smart gal, but whoa bad choices in men. She'd probably smack me for saying that. Even his sister called her and spoke to her privately about what she was getting into. No effect. So, some things to ponder. People-picker things. Hope it works out ITs not an anomaly, I end up being attracted to these types a lot. I don't always pursue things with them. I think part of the issue is definitely the fact that I feel like there are things about me that chase the better guys away. (kids, career, education). The guys who have their stuff together and don't have loads of baggage take one look and run. What's that leave? Single for life? I don't like that idea. I guess that's why my "standards" are probably lower than they should be.
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 But, didn't you guys talk before you went out on your first date, during your dates enough to find out some of these things before you became involved in a relationship with him? I never came out and asked to see a degree, and all he said was that he'd been working in IT and gotten laid off. Well, he worked at a place that makes routers on the manufacturing end, and was indeed laid off. Incidentally, he doesn't come off as unintelligent or uneducated at all when you talk with him. He builds fuel cells and other gadgets as a hobby, and can build web pages and write html, things I can't figure out how to do. He finally told me because he felt bad about hiding the fact.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I never came out and asked to see a degree, and all he said was that he'd been working in IT and gotten laid off. Well, he worked at a place that makes routers on the manufacturing end, and was indeed laid off. Incidentally, he doesn't come off as unintelligent or uneducated at all when you talk with him. He builds fuel cells and other gadgets as a hobby, and can build web pages and write html, things I can't figure out how to do. He finally told me because he felt bad about hiding the fact. I'm glad you appreciated his honesty but he still has a lot of baggage that you might not be able to shoulder later on. About your tendency to attract certain guys, it's time to set some standards. While I think I have no right to tell you who you should date, you should still consider the type of guys that are " up to par" with the type of person you are. Some people date personalities, others date career type, etc. In the long term, it's about being ideal.
carhill Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I think part of the issue is definitely the fact that I feel like there are things about me that chase the better guys away. (kids, career, education). Here's a key aspect, and I hope it translates on the page... How do you *feel* about those things? Match that up with your experience with how others *appear* to respond. You can look at it two ways. Firstly, exactly how you've typed it. But consider, for a moment, that it has nothing to do with you or them, right nor wrong, but rather that, as our psychologist described, different paths, equally valid and equally valuable, but divergent. I've found it's a great way to feel positive about dynamics I formerly turned back upon myself in a negative way. Clear as mud? You can apply this same methodology to the man you are seeing now. Do you really feel his path is convergent with yours? Can you accept that his path has value and is valid, as is yours? Can you accept that your feelings about yourself (and him) do not have to depend on that convergence? Hope it works out!
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Here's a key aspect, and I hope it translates on the page... How do you *feel* about those things? Match that up with your experience with how others *appear* to respond. You can look at it two ways. Firstly, exactly how you've typed it. But consider, for a moment, that it has nothing to do with you or them, right nor wrong, but rather that, as our psychologist described, different paths, equally valid and equally valuable, but divergent. I've found it's a great way to feel positive about dynamics I formerly turned back upon myself in a negative way. Clear as mud? You can apply this same methodology to the man you are seeing now. Do you really feel his path is convergent with yours? Can you accept that his path has value and is valid, as is yours? Can you accept that your feelings about yourself (and him) do not have to depend on that convergence? Hope it works out! To be honest, the guy I see now's lack of GED isn't all that worrisome to me. I know he's working on it daily and I know he has a plan on place to make his life better. He's great with his kid, and he takes his responsibilities very seriously. The drinking bothers me more, and the distance. And the fact that for some reason I end up with the same "sort" all the time, to the point that I am beginning to think there's something wrong with how I approach guys that this is the only kind I catch.
stillafool Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 OK brainy girl...at least you are recognizing you can do better...so you are open to rational contemplation about your situation... Now I'm going to tell something that I suspect you will not want to hear at all and will reject. It is not meant to hurt your feelings but it is my viewpoint. I'm only telling you this because it sounds like you are ready to hear it. You are an apparently intelligent, attractive but overweight woman with children as well as a variety of emotional issues. Because you are attractive, you have the basic ability to attract men. But because of the other factors, your selection of men is somewhat limited, so you have been settling for men who are not good enough for you. (By the way I think the fact that you seem to believe being well educated is a "negative" is sort of absurd and is related to your self-esteem issues. Having two masters' degrees is GREAT, it shows you are well educated, intelligent, and highly motivated.) You can't do anything about having kids. You CAN do something about the emotional issues, but it may take years of counseling to work those through. You SHOULD NOT do ANYTHING about your intelligence other than to view is as a VERY POSITIVE factor. That leaves the obvious: You need to lose weight. Whatever it is, 20-30 lbs., or more if that's the case, get rid of that shell of unnecessary fat. Get in shape. Exercise. Diet. PLEASE don't respond to this with a list of excuses about why getting in great shape--not just GOOD shape, GREAT shape--is difficult/impossible for you. You wanted answers and there is a simple answer for a big part of your problem. And it's 100% within your control. Lose the lard. This will do a couple of things for you. 1. It will greatly increase your self-esteem, not only will your appearance improve, you will FEEL HEALTHIER and become MORE ACTIVE. 2. It will greatly increase your ability to attract better men than you have been attracting. Being super hot, or as hot as you can make yourself, will somewhat compensate for any perceived negatives that you may be exhibiting to potential suitors. Easy? Probably not. Necessary? Absolutely. You talked about being "selfish" in dumping this alcoholic, uneducated, dishonest loser of a boyfriend. On the contrary, it would be selfish NOT to dump him, because YOU HAVE CHILDREN. You OWE it to your children, if you are going to get involved seriously with a man, to do whatever you can to try to get involved with the BEST man you are able to find. You have settled for a man beneath your lowest standards because of LAZINESS. Too lazy to exercise. Too lazy to eat healthy. Too lazy to find a GOOD MAN. Like I said, I assume you are not really liking what I'm saying. But it's true. Well if he can accept her being overweight and having children (while still working on the weight part), why can't she accept his lack of education (while he works to improve himself) by getting a GED and going further. Maybe he doesn't think she is good enough for him.
stillafool Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I never came out and asked to see a degree, and all he said was that he'd been working in IT and gotten laid off. Well, he worked at a place that makes routers on the manufacturing end, and was indeed laid off. Incidentally, he doesn't come off as unintelligent or uneducated at all when you talk with him. He builds fuel cells and other gadgets as a hobby, and can build web pages and write html, things I can't figure out how to do. He finally told me because he felt bad about hiding the fact. Oh no, of course you didn't, I just meant didn't you ask him the old "where did you go to school?" question. Most people who are as educatedf as you are interested in things like that. Personally, I admire you for not asking, but as time went on I'm surprised you didn't learn this sooner.
carhill Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 It sounds like these words from the OP ring meaning for her as a balance tipper to their other unique characteristics: The drinking bothers me more, and the distance. These, especially her observations of the man's 'drinking', appear to run deep in her psyche, and necessary affect how she *feels*. Some of the married women (friends) who have 'hit on' me are alcoholics and their behaviors likely reflect that dynamic. Would I date them if they were single? Likely not, once I became aware. I have no family history of alcoholism but I find the psychology of it unhealthy for myself. This is one example of divergent paths. The OP can reach her own conclusions about her own psyche and apply as appropriate. It is possible that, if she were to 'lose weight', she could attract a different 'class' of man. The question remains whether that 'class' of man would be compatible with her. Unknown. To me, any 'weight loss' should be a function of desire for change in one's own life, and becoming attractive to a different spectrum of people is just a byproduct of it, rather than its impetus. Hope she figures it all out
Author brainygirl Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 It sounds like these words from the OP ring meaning for her as a balance tipper to their other unique characteristics: These, especially her observations of the man's 'drinking', appear to run deep in her psyche, and necessary affect how she *feels*. Some of the married women (friends) who have 'hit on' me are alcoholics and their behaviors likely reflect that dynamic. Would I date them if they were single? Likely not, once I became aware. I have no family history of alcoholism but I find the psychology of it unhealthy for myself. This is one example of divergent paths. The OP can reach her own conclusions about her own psyche and apply as appropriate. It is possible that, if she were to 'lose weight', she could attract a different 'class' of man. The question remains whether that 'class' of man would be compatible with her. Unknown. To me, any 'weight loss' should be a function of desire for change in one's own life, and becoming attractive to a different spectrum of people is just a byproduct of it, rather than its impetus. Hope she figures it all out See, to me, the "class" that is attracted only to thin women sounds kinda shallow. And I'm not into shallow people. I work on my weight because I know I'll be healthier if I loose it. But I also know that constantly berating myself over it and going on extreme diets isn't healthy so I try to avoid processed foods and eat more fresh veggies and fewer bleached grains. I walk or ride my bike. It works for me. And what Stillafool wrote is true. I have my own issues. Some are glaringly obvious and some aren't, but their there. What kind of person would I be if I rejected someone else's baggage while insisting they embraced my own? which is why this is harder for me than it seems like it should be.
carhill Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) I recall my now stbx telling me many years ago that her girlfriends wondered why she was dating a 'bald' guy. That was a common refrain heard for decades (since I was single until 41). Were all those women 'shallow'? I prefer to see them as on a different path, the 'full head of hair' path. Many paths. Stbx was never a 'thin' woman, mostly borderline obese (if 5'1" @ 180 is considered such), but her physicality matched up with my attraction path so we were compatible in that way. Plenty of other men called her 'fat'. The hard part of acceptance is letting oneself see the dynamic other than in a way where 'I'm right and they're wrong', rather work towards seeing people as compatible and incompatible. Incompatible is not *wrong* or *shallow*. Letting go of labeling others frees ones mind to focus on more positive things in life. What kind of person would I be if I rejected someone else's baggage while insisting they embraced my own? You'd be like many of the women I met in my lifetime, a normal person. Life is a journey. It doesn't end at the beginning. One must live it. Everything comes in due time Edited July 13, 2010 by carhill
GoodOnPaper Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Good on paper doesn't mean a whole lot. True . . . at best it doesn't count for anything, most often it is simply a huge attraction killer . . .
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 What kind of person would I be if I rejected someone else's baggage while insisting they embraced my own? which is why this is harder for me than it seems like it should be. The unhealthy flip side to your statement is "because I have baggage, I can only choose someone with baggage." Please make sure you're not doing that. I'm similar to you in several ways and haven't figured out why I am attracted to men who are not good enough for me. Initially, I think they are quality so it's not a deliberate "settling." Then I begin to learn they don't have their sh*t together and/or they aren't capable of treating me as I deserve. I wonder why I didn't realize it, begin to second guess myself - am I being anal? or expecting too much?; decide I'm not, then end it.
GoodOnPaper Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I have my own issues. Some are glaringly obvious and some aren't, but their there. What kind of person would I be if I rejected someone else's baggage while insisting they embraced my own? Speaking from experience -- different issue but same type of logical argument -- think twice before giving in to this kind of logic. It doesn't make for a very good relationship foundation.
LoveLace Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Speaking from experience -- different issue but same type of logical argument -- think twice before giving in to this kind of logic. It doesn't make for a very good relationship foundation. I agree, really we ALL have our "issues", but the point that his "issues" are all exactly what makes him wrong for you...your issues and weather or not he accepts them, has nothing to do with it. He's a heavy drinker, under educated, and wants children, all of which are major factors for anyone and not just you, factors that concern you or bother you. Are you going to expect him to quit drinking for you? Expect him to change his mind about kids for you? (not likely)...look at this way: not only is he wrong for you, but you are wrong him, too, because of all of the above. But the choice IS yours to keep him around and hope that he becomes more of the man you'd like him to be, and the chances that you'll be disappointed in the end are pretty high...but again, the choice is yours.
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