have 'checked out' of my marriage - how do I check back in?

[blossom0123]

Thanks for these two last posts, that's very nice.... appreciated! :-)

[blossom0123]

Personally, I think you can experience new highs that have not been explored in your marriage. Where... physical and emotional connections much stronger than you have experienced. I was literally shocked to read that you have never had a good sexual relationship with your husband.

 

The basis for a positive healthy marriage is of course love, caring, respect, etc, etc... but even with those things in perfect harmony, the peak of marital bliss is when best friends move towards passionate lovers... all of the other positives remain intact and sexual desire and connection form a very strong bond.

 

 

OK, so that made me think - because I'm actually surprised that you are shocked :-) - I thought lots of people had these kinds of issues - but the paragraph following that sentence is convincing.

 

I don't really know if I can restore that part of the relationship, since it is not much to restore (i.e. was not there in the first place) - but there are lots of other aspects that can potentially be restored.

 

Thanks for the encouragement!

[vestigalvirgin]

You've gotten some pretty good answers so far. But it seems to me that you probably need some pretty intensive and long term individual counseling/psychotherapy, regardless of whether or not you stay in the current relationship.

 

I'm also assuming that there's no infidelity on your part, either actual or potential, since you haven't mentioned a third party in the picture or waiting on the wings. (If there is perhaps you could elaborate on this?)

 

 

Jeess, I put my year of marriage wrong - married 2004, not 1994! God, guess that's a sign of my state...

 

Sounds like part of the problem might be the "seven year itch" which doesn't have to exactly occur at year seven of course. There is no novelty anymore and things have gotten to be a real drag.

 

Sustaining the vitality of a marriage takes hard work by both partners, it doesn't just "happen."

 

 

We don't want children, that's always been mutual. I have always been adamant that I don't want children with anybody, so I think I am just an exception to the rule, rather than that being a sign of my (lack of) love for him.

 

This statement is one of the reasons I think you could greatly benefit from individual therapy. It's one thing to choose not to have children, but to "adamantly" be against EVER having them, with ANYBODY, indicates you probably have some issues here.

 

Maybe the ennui you are experiencing now is partially a result of the collision of your socialized intellect (21st century career woman) with your biologically programmed imperative to reproduce the species. You are right about the age, mid 30's, when your biological clock would be ticking away at its hardest. You've told yourself for years that you don't want to, never will, never ever, have children, for whatever reasons you've conjured up for yourself.

 

Your body and biology most likely feels differently about the subject. And now if you do want to have kids you are running out of time to do so. If you don't really love your current husband then you don't want to have children with him. Your biological self is making you antsy--you have a drive to seek a different mate with whom you might have children. Intellectually you are most likely suppressing and ignoring these basic drives.

 

 

 

I am career oriented and spend a lot of (too much) time at work, more so these days as I am financially responsible for us (husband is pursuing graduate studies).

 

Interesting conflict you are expressing here, another reason for therapy. On the one hand your persona is "career oriented," yet simultaneously you are undercutting that (too much time at work). You are in conflict and perhaps you don't realize it.

 

 

 

We got married when I was nearly thirty so I considere it a fairly mature choice, although it happened too fast (for family reasons).

 

More internal conflict--on the one hand you're portraying this marriage as a well thought out choice, but then you immediately undercut that by implying that it was not a choice which was fully free on your part, to some degree it didn't happen the way you wanted it to. You're also suggesting some sort of broader family conflict occurred which forced you to make a marital decision in too hasty a manner.

 

 

I guess one of the problems I am experiencing is that we have less and less in common, and less and less to talk about - it is rare that I feel stimulated by our conversations (which I am sure has as much to do with my attitude than with him). I feel like I know what he's going to say before he says it.

 

This is not wrong, this is normal. Married couples also have the experience of being able to finish each other's sentences. It comes from living with and learning about someone else. It's not clear why you perceive this as a negative.

 

 

 

He feels I never responds to his humour or get engaged in his stories.

 

Well, do you? Note the very passive way you discussed this issue--you didn't actually state whether you believe him to be a funny guy or not, just that he's told you he didn't think you thought he was funny.

 

 

Physically, it's been bad since we started

 

Again this suggests internal conflict/contradiction which is coming from within you and needs to be addressed via individual counseling.

 

On the one hand you said the marriage decision was in your opinion the product of a mature choice of an almost 30 year old, but in the same breath suggested you were hurried into it for family reasons. Now you are stating that you've never had a good sex life. Obviously it makes absolutely no sense to marry someone to whom one is obviously sexually incompatible (although plenty of people seem to do it, it still makes no sense).

 

Question for therapy: Why would you get married to someone who you didn't enjoy sex with?

 

 

 

- I don't care too much about sex (which is part of the problem of course) so personally that is not a reason why I want to go, I've always been thinking that you can't get 'everything' right with someone and it's more important to me to have emotional and intellectual connectedness than a good sex life.

 

This statement is also something you need to discuss in therapy. Why are you so accepting of your self-perceived conception as a person to whom sex is not very important, in fact so unimportant that you would marry someone that you were sexually incompatible with?

 

A more healthy response would be to look for ways to improve your sex life, not just write it off because it's always been bad and you consider yourself a rather sexless individual. Sex is a major part of a marital relationship. If you take away the sex then really what is left?

 

 

 

 

Yes, I think the date suggestion is good and actually I can think about a lot of things that I could do to make things better - practically - like going on dates, inviting him to do whatever, make a romantic dinner etc etc. - the problem is that I don't want to and don't have the motivation to try - and THAT is the real problem, which I don't know how to fix. If I get that back, then I can think of lots of things that I could do to work on this.

 

 

I think the problem right now is that at age 36 your biological clock is chiming very loudly. You WANT to have children or one child at least, but this desire is in conflict with your persona as "career woman" and the practical problem that currently you are supporting your husband.

 

The real solution would require sacrifices on both your parts. He might have to quit grad school and get a job or jobs in anticipation of your pregnancy and perhaps taking some time off from work to raise the infant. It would require a sacrifice on your part of putting your career on the back burner for a while in order to get pregnant and raise a child.

[blossom0123]

 

I'm also assuming that there's no infidelity on your part, either actual or potential, since you haven't mentioned a third party in the picture or waiting on the wings. (If there is perhaps you could elaborate on this?)

QUOTE]

 

As I mentioned above in a separate post, a brief EA which I cut and now NC. Nothing physical.

 

Sounds like part of the problem might be the "seven year itch" which doesn't have to exactly occur at year seven of course. There is no novelty anymore and things have gotten to be a real drag.Sustaining the vitality of a marriage takes hard work by both partners, it doesn't just "happen." .

 

Totally agree - always have - what I'm trying now is to generate motivation to work on it...

 

You've gotten some pretty good answers so far. But it seems to me that you probably need some pretty intensive and long term individual counseling/psychotherapy, regardless of whether or not you stay in the current relationship.

 

Yes, as I said above in a different post I have signed up for counselling and looking forward to starting - I've had counselling in the past as well and found it very helpful.

 

 

This statement is one of the reasons I think you could greatly benefit from individual therapy. It's one thing to choose not to have children, but to "adamantly" be against EVER having them, with ANYBODY, indicates you probably have some issues here.

 

Maybe the ennui you are experiencing now is partially a result of the collision of your socialized intellect (21st century career woman) with your biologically programmed imperative to reproduce the species. You are right about the age, mid 30's, when your biological clock would be ticking away at its hardest. You've told yourself for years that you don't want to, never will, never ever, have children, for whatever reasons you've conjured up for yourself.

 

Your body and biology most likely feels differently about the subject. And now if you do want to have kids you are running out of time to do so. If you don't really love your current husband then you don't want to have children with him. Your biological self is making you antsy--you have a drive to seek a different mate with whom you might have children. Intellectually you are most likely suppressing and ignoring these basic drives.

 

 

I think the problem right now is that at age 36 your biological clock is chiming very loudly. You WANT to have children or one child at least, but this desire is in conflict with your persona as "career woman" and the practical problem that currently you are supporting your husband.

QUOTE]

 

I generally think your points are really good but on this one I don't agree. Although I have always felt strongly that I don't want children, I have also always explicitly acknowledged that I might change my opinion on this exactly because of the biological clock issue. But I can honestly say I have never thought to myself or sensed in any way that I want to have a child. If that makes me abnormal and a top case for counselling, then so be it, but I really don't consider this to be central to the relationship issues.

 

"Well, do you? Note the very passive way you discussed this issue--you didn't actually state whether you believe him to be a funny guy or not, just that he's told you he didn't think you thought he was funny."

 

No, I don't - and you're right, that shouldn't have been in the passive.

 

"This statement is also something you need to discuss in therapy. Why are you so accepting of your self-perceived conception as a person to whom sex is not very important, in fact so unimportant that you would marry someone that you were sexually incompatible with?"

 

Well, I'm not accepting of it in the sense that I understand it is a weakness on my part and I know it hurts my husband - and I have tried (with more or less success) to improve myself in that area. When I initially got married, I don't think I understood the importance of it, and I also thought we would work it out and that it would get better over time.

[spriggig]

Since no one else mentioned it, I will. Consider your diet, both of you. I don't mean start taking bee pollen or oysters, I just mean the Standard American Diet can kill libido.

 

Way too much sugar? Zero exercise?

 

Also, your husband needs to know what's going on in no uncertain terms. You need to shout it in his ear and maybe even threaten to leave him to wake him up. It takes two to make a marriage work and he's not carrying his half, no matter that, or perhaps because, he's a nice guy.

 

I did zero introspection until my wife broke up with me. I kept on keeping on with the routine, until she kicked me hard in the head--by then it was way too late.

[blossom0123]

Since no one else mentioned it, I will. Consider your diet, both of you. I don't mean start taking bee pollen or oysters, I just mean the Standard American Diet can kill libido.

 

Way too much sugar? Zero exercise?

 

Also, your husband needs to know what's going on in no uncertain terms. You need to shout it in his ear and maybe even threaten to leave him to wake him up. It takes two to make a marriage work and he's not carrying his half, no matter that, or perhaps because, he's a nice guy.

 

I did zero introspection until my wife broke up with me. I kept on keeping on with the routine, until she kicked me hard in the head--by then it was way too late.

 

Yeah, good point. We both eat quite healthily and I exercise three times a week, no smoking or alcohol.

 

We have dicussed the D-word, but gave it a year for it to be worked on and give it a chance. I don't know what to communicate to him in terms of what I want to happen, because I don't even know - just feel thoroughly disconnected - so I'm not being very constructive in terms of communicating "in no certain terms" because I feel I don't even know what to say - lame, I know, but I'm trying to figure it out....

[giotto]

Yes, I have talked to him about it. He was crushed. We have given it at least a year to try. I have signed up for IC, on a waiting list. There was a brief EA but nothing P and NC now.

 

I'll be blunt... after reading all your posts, I don't quite see why you want to extend this half-baked marriage... you don't love him, you don't want to be with him physically, there are no children to take care of. You told him and he is (obviously) crushed... Do you know what you are doing to him? You are torturing him and giving him false hopes, that you are prepared to do whatever it takes to repair your marriage... but there is no marriage to repair. You are trying to fix something that doesn't exist and you don't even have the faintest idea about how to find it again. Just be cruel to be kind... set him free...

Edited July 13, 2010 by giotto

[blossom0123]

I'll be blunt... after reading all your posts, I don't quite see why you want to extend this half-baked marriage... you don't love him, you don't want to be with him physically, there are no children to take care of. You told him and he is (obviously) crushed... Do you know what you are doing to him? You are torturing him and giving him false hopes, that you are prepared to do whatever it takes to repair your marriage... but there is no marriage to repair. You are trying to fix something that doesn't exist and you don't even have the faintest idea about how to find it again. Just be cruel to be kind... set him free...

 

Yes, maybe you are right [i appreciate bluntness by the way]. I just keep thinking that my feelings are not morally acceptable and that I should be able to work on myself, somehow, and not give up just because I don't see a way out of this right now. Because as I said further up, there are stories of people who managed to make it work, so then I think maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet, or in the right way. When he begs me not to leave him and says it will destroy his life, I can't think of leaving and look myself in the mirror at the same time. After all, I did make a commitment when I got married and I should honour that.

[giotto]

Yes, maybe you are right [i appreciate bluntness by the way]. I just keep thinking that my feelings are not morally acceptable and that I should be able to work on myself, somehow, and not give up just because I don't see a way out of this right now. Because as I said further up, there are stories of people who managed to make it work, so then I think maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet, or in the right way. When he begs me not to leave him and says it will destroy his life, I can't think of leaving and look myself in the mirror at the same time. After all, I did make a commitment when I got married and I should honour that.

 

now, Blossom, you'll get a lot of that on this board. You made vows and you are "obliged" to stay. Sorry, but this is bull****! There are many cases when there is something salvageable in the marriage and ok, I agree. In these cases I would recommend IC and MC. But in your case, Blossom, it's like asking yourself to love your brother as your husband, because this is what he has become. I understand wanting to try, but I feel you are doing that (apart from the "not morally acceptable" excuse), because you feel incredibly guilty about leaving him. If we could take the guilty away, you would not stay. I also think that you supporting him financially is another reason why you want to give it a go. Guilt is a terrible thing... believe me, I was raised a catholic!

[blossom0123]

now, Blossom, you'll get a lot of that on this board. You made vows and you are "obliged" to stay. Sorry, but this is bull****! There are many cases when there is something salvageable in the marriage and ok, I agree. In these cases I would recommend IC and MC. But in your case, Blossom, it's like asking yourself to love your brother as your husband, because this is what he has become. I understand wanting to try, but I feel you are doing that (apart from the "not morally acceptable" excuse), because you feel incredibly guilty about leaving him. If we could take the guilty away, you would not stay. I also think that you supporting him financially is another reason why you want to give it a go. Guilt is a terrible thing... believe me, I was raised a catholic!

 

You're right, I'm definitely guilt ridden and it is of course affecting how I approach the whole situation (and guilt is a kind of selfishness, at the end of the day - not wanting to be the cause of someone's misery, when I just have to face the fact that I am). The financial issue is also an aspect, and that he is from another country where divorce has much more negative consequences (socially) than it has for me.

 

Thanks for contributing. This forum is really helpful. I still haven't received a reply that didn't make me think.

[giotto]

I still haven't received a reply that didn't make me think.

 

Just wait until somebody starts accusing you of being a "walkaway wife"...

[blossom0123]

Just wait until somebody starts accusing you of being a "walkaway wife"...

 

Haha, someone already raised that one

[giotto]

Haha, someone already raised that one

 

ah, yes, it was Woggle, at the beginning...

 

Keep reading, though, because I'm sure you will get a ton of useful advice... I've said mine...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

One changing day to day on LS. He has a point that there are no children (which is what keeps him in his marriage).

 

Blossom, you have to decide what you want from your life and your marriage. You have to make sure your spouse lands on his feet, but realize where you want to be a week, a month, a year from now.

 

Either you get to MC, which is more important then IC in your case and get all out on the table or just start again.

 

I will say it, as Giotto hasn't. I think it is the physical nature of the relationship that really does start the wheels turning. If there is nothing there, then why bother?

[giotto]

One changing day to day on LS. He has a point that there are no children (which is what keeps him in his marriage).

 

Blossom, you have to decide what you want from your life and your marriage. You have to make sure your spouse lands on his feet, but realize where you want to be a week, a month, a year from now.

 

Either you get to MC, which is more important then IC in your case and get all out on the table or just start again.

 

I will say it, as Giotto hasn't. I think it is the physical nature of the relationship that really does start the wheels turning. If there is nothing there, then why bother?

 

I have seen a transformation in my wife, recently. She actually wants to be with me, but that's because I have changed. Is this enough to keep me in my marriage apart from my kids? I don't know yet and we will see.

 

Back to the topic... sometimes we can have a perfectly ok marriage when one of the two "ingredients" - i.e. sexual attraction or emotional involvement - is missing. The reason I'm saying what I'm saying is that in your marriage both of them are missing. This is a mountain to overcome. As TDP says, you need to establish what you really what from your life. IC should help you with that...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I have seen a transformation in my wife, recently. She actually wants to be with me, but that's because I have changed. Is this enough to keep me in my marriage apart from my kids? I don't know yet and we will see.

 

Back to the topic... sometimes we can have a perfectly ok marriage when one of the two "ingredients" - i.e. sexual attraction or emotional involvement - is missing. The reason I'm saying what I'm saying is that in your marriage both of them are missing. This is a mountain to overcome. As TDP says, you need to establish what you really what from your life. IC should help you with that...

 

let's hope it is not short term again.... IC never hurts, but I think here, MC is needed as they are lost in that aspect.

 

Very simple, if you do not look forward to seeing your spouse at the end of the day, there is a problem.

[giotto]

let's hope it is not short term again.... IC never hurts, but I think here, MC is needed as they are lost in that aspect.

 

possibly, but it's blossom who needs to sort out her feelings (if there are any..). I think her husband's involvement might make things more complicated...

 

Very simple, if you do not look forward to seeing your spouse at the end of the day, there is a problem.

 

ah, really? I like seeing her, but not everyday...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

possibly, but it's blossom who needs to sort out her feelings (if there are any..). I think her husband's involvement might make things more complicated...

 

 

 

ah, really? I like seeing her, but not everyday...

 

Everyone needs IC. People can decide simply to be happy or unhappy (and no I am not discounting depression and mental illness).

 

Simply the cup can be half empty or half full.... It's your decision.

[blossom0123]

possibly, but it's blossom who needs to sort out her feelings (if there are any..). I think her husband's involvement might make things more complicated...

 

 

I agree I need both, but would like to start with IC for the reason above.

 

Trying to see glass as half full, but sometimes it just looks empty. But yes, to a certain extent that's a choice. Life is what you make it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I agree I need both, but would like to start with IC for the reason above.

 

Trying to see glass as half full, but sometimes it just looks empty. But yes, to a certain extent that's a choice. Life is what you make it.

 

When you say empty, that is a sign of significant issues or depression. Best of luck.

 

Now you did mention your husband is from a different country and divorce is looked at negatively. That may too be an issue. Are you part of a mixed race marriage? Does he have family here or does he depend on you? Sorry there are many questions unanswered.

[blossom0123]

When you say empty, that is a sign of significant issues or depression. Best of luck.

 

Now you did mention your husband is from a different country and divorce is looked at negatively. That may too be an issue. Are you part of a mixed race marriage? Does he have family here or does he depend on you? Sorry there are many questions unanswered.

 

Thank you. Yes, I am depressed by the state of affairs, but trying to somewhat address it by eating properly, exercising, walks in nature, trying to think constructively, etc.

 

We are from different countries/ cultures, like a lot of other mixed couples we feel that this is both extremely rewarding and also challenging. He is quite alone here, doesn't have a lot of his 'own' friends or family around, so in that sense the situation is much harder for him than for me. He depends on me for staying in the country (which of course adds another layer to all of this), but if we parted then he wouldn't necessarily want to stay here - profesionally and socially, he has better options elsewhere.

[blossom0123]

So, my husband gave me an ultimatum two nights ago - wanted a straight answer to whether I wanted to try to make this work or not, and a list of what he wanted to see happening. I was really happy from the point of view that this means he's taking control of his own situation and is no longer helplessly freaking out as he was when we first discussed divorce, and he was being strong and emphasising his own need for self dignity and being treated properly and stuff like that. I was really relieved about that.

 

I agreed to try, but I know in my heart it was half-hearted in terms of how I actually feel about it. But I've decided to do my best now through actions, hoping that actions can change feelings rather than sitting around thinking about my feelings. I still feel pessimistic, but I feel I just can't walk out without trying. We're also spending a bit of time apart soon (have other family obligations different places), so maybe a bit of space and change of environment is good for both of us as well...

 

...so that's my update!

[WalkInThePark]

and that goes beyond sports or other male topics.....;) Exactly what does being a good conversationalist have to do with a spouse, especially after many years together??? No one take this as there is no need to talk, but what do you expect to talk about, politics, current affairs, art and then to be mesmerized and stimulated?????

 

The OP has a real problem. Sorry when I hear that sex doesn't matter (or she doesn't care about it), that is a red flag. So then she add that she married for a variety of reasons, and not sure I saw love (and I don't mean sappy/corny crap).....

 

Add to that it was a very short courtship, she is supporting him in his mid-30's as he pursues a graduate degree, she (nor he) wants children, these are a toxic recipe and I see a lot of work required to repair whatever has gone wrong.

 

But if you can't talk to each other, then of what does your relationship exist? The physical attraction (and the kids as a result of this?).

For me there have to be 3 elements of attraction: mental, emotional and physical. If it just chemistry on a physical level, it will quickly wear off for me. More, if I am not stimulated mentally, I won't be physically attracted.

 

I find it sad that people can only get their marriage going because they have friends with whom they can fill the voids in their marital relationship. It then sounds like your partner is the one you have sex (and kids) with and share a house. I am not saying that you have to find every need fulfilled by your partner but if he/she is not also a very good friend, then why are you together?

[giotto]

So, my husband gave me an ultimatum two nights ago - wanted a straight answer to whether I wanted to try to make this work or not, and a list of what he wanted to see happening. I was really happy from the point of view that this means he's taking control of his own situation and is no longer helplessly freaking out as he was when we first discussed divorce, and he was being strong and emphasising his own need for self dignity and being treated properly and stuff like that. I was really relieved about that.

 

I agreed to try, but I know in my heart it was half-hearted in terms of how I actually feel about it. But I've decided to do my best now through actions, hoping that actions can change feelings rather than sitting around thinking about my feelings. I still feel pessimistic, but I feel I just can't walk out without trying. We're also spending a bit of time apart soon (have other family obligations different places), so maybe a bit of space and change of environment is good for both of us as well...

 

...so that's my update!

 

you can only try... only way to find out!

[Confused_in_canada]

 

I agreed to try, but I know in my heart it was half-hearted in terms of how I actually feel about it. But I've decided to do my best now through actions, hoping that actions can change feelings rather than sitting around thinking about my feelings. I still feel pessimistic, but I feel I just can't walk out without trying. We're also spending a bit of time apart soon (have other family obligations different places), so maybe a bit of space and change of environment is good for both of us as well...

 

...so that's my update!

 

I so know what you mean... You have to take steps slowly, be happy with yourself and your life. My Wife and I had a big convo the other day and she asked if I wanted to quit, I said no but, i wondered if it was the right answer. Over time this will heal, she has a lot of changing to do and I hope that this recent convo motivates her...

 

Hope it works out well for you guys and the time spent apart brings you guys back closer together.

-Evan