New posters on the OW/OM forum and the Infidelity forum

[MizFit]

I always think it's odd how BS and OW/OM can be so polarized when they're almost mirrored reflections of each other.

 

While the A is going on the OW/OM is more aware of things that are going on...they are at least a peripheral part of the decisions going on that affect the BS life. When DDay comes the situation is absolutely reversed. At this point I will add this...DDay and the BS is caught completely off guard, even if there were suspicions. The BS NEVER truly knew what was going on and that short, sharp shock is worse than anything an OW/OM goes through. Even if the decision is to stay with the BS the OW/OM knows that's an option...the decision may hurt, but it's not the horrible shock the BS faces.

 

Anyway...I went on a bit there. OW/OM can be looked upon as weak and not thinking clearly and everyone wonders how on earth can they put themselves through it. BS who take their WS back can be looked upon as weak and not thinking clearly and how on earth can they put themselves through it. Others think one is stronger than the other...everyone has an opinion.

 

Here's mine...both are strong and both are brave. Neither scenario is easy and each has a point in time when a decision is made to be with someone that cheats on their spouse and they do for as long as they're able. Sometimes they get their S back...sometimes they get their MM/MW. They each cry in the night and love someone who more than likely isn't worthy of that love. They each wonder how they could end up in that situation. They each work through each day always hoping the next will be better. They probably each have memories ruined by the actions of the BS/AP. Each struggles to carve a future and come out of it with as little damage as possible.

 

I would never have been strong enough to take my exH back...to me the easy option was to leave and minimize the damage.

[pureinheart]

I have a theory.

 

When I go to the Infidelity forum, it is because I want to discuss a topic which is brought up there. I don't go there to welcome and support new BS posters. I don't go there to tell a new poster that I believe an OW has a right to pursue a relationship with a MM if she is in love with him. I leave it to the BSs to welcome another BS, and this in spite of the fact that I have been a BS myself in my two prior long term relationships.

 

When I see BSs posting here on the OW/OM forum sometimes it is to discuss topics brought up here, but very often it is to give tough love to new OW/OM posters. At times this leads to the new posters feeling that LS is not the place for them, which is unfortunate since they have turned to LS because they were in need of support.

 

Perhaps we should leave the welcoming to the respective group on each forum. There is no need to worry that tough love will not be delivered on the OW/OM forum, since there are such varying opinions among the OW/OM themselves.

 

1) Do you post on both forums?

2) Do you post on new posters' threads in the other forum?

 

Jennie, just want to say that I have had the priviledge of learning a great deal from you, and have been able to grow as a person due to how you carry yourself. I used to carry/word myself extremely well, although have been met with many difficulties both physical and emotional and have been through much, not as much as some, but more than others.

 

LS, I think was very wise in the fact that they did separate the two OM/OW and Infidelity as there is a DEFINITE conflict, so in essence I do see the two forums as "ours" and "theirs". I respect the fact that there are hurting BS's and realise due to the circumstances that my veiws and opinions may not be welcomed, so therefore I rarely communicate in the Infidelity forum.

 

No, I have never responded to a new member in the Infidelity forum.

 

Thanks to you and JW and have gotten some wonderful insight as to how I should deal with various matters in the future...Jennie, what is it with your threads???? I have grown a ton...lol...

 

My hope is that in the near future, while I've been told that BS's (which I have been one many times) and OM/OW will never find common ground, that at the very least we could be civil and respect one another.

[califnan]

Correction, this should read:

 

Is it then appropriate for me to start seeking out new BS's threads and state my opinion that tough luck, your husband is in love with another woman, that is just how life goes, suck it up, I don't believe in marriage anyway?

 

---------------------

 

Why not.. And with not just new BSs .. but all. I would think any comments that offer a questioning poster insight and perspective, should be fair game..

 

Aside from reading various forums, a BS may find it interesting to hear what goes on in the minds of OW/OM. But then of course, it would be expected that others would join into the discussion with their opinions as well..

[pureinheart]

I very rarely post in Infidelity board anymore since it was told to me several times that my opinions as an OW were not welcomed there. In fact, I rarely read over there anymore.

 

I do admit to occasionally hopping over there to see what is diverting so much attention when this board gets quiet.

 

I agree that far too many new LSers quietly leave without ever getting the help that they came here seeking because anyone admitting to being an OW/OM gets flamed right away.

 

They get told that their relationship is a waste of time, that they are commiting sin (of course not everyone believes in the same God, or even any God, but that doesn't stop the sin card from being played.) They are told they are lying if they admit to feeling remorse for causing BS pain. They are beat up, dumped on and called everything short of a "wh*re".

 

I almost left shortly after coming to LS. Fortunately I saw the need for more voices speaking about what is the reality of an affair realationship, rather than the BS perspective that it is all a hormone induced fairytale.

 

I hope that I show equal respect to both OW/OM and BS. But in case I appear to not show enough compassion for BS (despite my 15 years as a BS:rolleyes: ), I stay on "My Board" as i have been told to do. *shrug*

 

 

I am glad you and Jennie didn't leave:D....and want to add, I would not be where I am at today had you have left , that makes me very happy.

 

FTR, we all show equal respect due to the fact most of us have been BS's also. Threads get heated and with no boundries all bets are off at that point and then it's war.

 

The sincerity of a person is found in the LACK of condemnation, when you see condemnation and no love, run for the hills!!!!! Correction when warranted is one thing, but condemnation is quite another. This leads me to the "sin" factor.

 

In my belief system, I belief we are all sinners saved by GRACE. People pick and choose what "sin" they deam to be "the sin", when it is all the same. They deam it to be "the sin" because they themselves were hurt by it, so therefore is quite big in their own understanding.

 

I have "sinned" in every way imaginable, so in "my" understanding I am not above reproach, meaning just because I am not in an A, that doesnot make me better than anyone...in fact because I was in an A, now I have understanding and compassion...now should one have to be in an A to gain understanding and compassion?

[Lizzie60]

I have not read the whole thread.. but, for me, I rarely check in which forum the thread is started... that's why I have a hard time finding it sometimes.. (when I want to go back and read it)...

 

I just hit the 'new posts' all the time and check the subject lines.. then the topics that are interesting me.. I check it out.. sometimes I just put my cursor on the subject line and read the first sentences.. and if I think it's not 'interesting' for me.. I go to another subject line.

 

This is how I work the forum.. but I have to admit that I don't really have time these days..

[pureinheart]

Is it then appropriate for me to start seeking out new BS threads and state my opinion that tough luck, your husband is in love with another woman, that is just how life goes, suck it up, I don't believe in marriage anyway?

 

Anybody care to answer this question? This is actually at the core of what I am getting at.

 

Don't mind if I do:D....

 

Actually in a recent thread I did some soul searching and did find that I knew from the beginning, but M'ed anyway because I "thought", even with the knowing gut feeling, that he would NEVER cheat on me.

 

Isn't this the statement that most BS's make to the OW/OM...don't kid yourself, if he/she cheated on me, he/she will cheat on you too.

 

Almost everything could be turned around in the other direction.

 

Sure there are some that are sincerely blind-sided, although there are some that knew from the gate.

 

I am not sure I could throw that in a BS's face, even though I know it to be the truth.

 

This is a bit off of the question, although would like to state this view also...in the case of some BS's, I think by negativity and not treating their S's correctly, they should share in some of the resposibility concerning the A...many speak of "choices", this goes both ways, they made the "choice" not to treat their S correctly and are at fault also.

[pureinheart]

I just think there's a lot of unnecessary "us against them" mentality here. On both sides of the fence. Threads should be lumped into categories, but not people. I judge people here based on their attitudes and their words (it's all I have to go by), not by whether they fall into the same "category" that I do. There are plenty of OM/OW here that I like a lot, and plenty of BS that I don't like at all. And the reverse of that is also very true.

 

I choose to live my life a certain way, but I don't look down on, or vilify people that make different choices. But when someone asks for advice or opinions, I give mine based on my own perspective. Just like we all do. And just like we all should.

 

What a boring world it would be, and what a boring forum this would be, if we all thought exactly alike, if we all gave exactly the same advice.

 

 

What you say is the truth and that is not in question here...what is in question is the manor in which "advice/support" is given. Communicating to a poster that "they deserve what they get" is way out of line IMO...maybe some feel that is the correct way to communicate, I see it as insensitive and rude.

[pureinheart]

I always think it's odd how BS and OW/OM can be so polarized when they're almost mirrored reflections of each other.

 

While the A is going on the OW/OM is more aware of things that are going on...they are at least a peripheral part of the decisions going on that affect the BS life. When DDay comes the situation is absolutely reversed. At this point I will add this...DDay and the BS is caught completely off guard, even if there were suspicions. The BS NEVER truly knew what was going on and that short, sharp shock is worse than anything an OW/OM goes through. Even if the decision is to stay with the BS the OW/OM knows that's an option...the decision may hurt, but it's not the horrible shock the BS faces.

 

Anyway...I went on a bit there. OW/OM can be looked upon as weak and not thinking clearly and everyone wonders how on earth can they put themselves through it. BS who take their WS back can be looked upon as weak and not thinking clearly and how on earth can they put themselves through it. Others think one is stronger than the other...everyone has an opinion.

 

Here's mine...both are strong and both are brave. Neither scenario is easy and each has a point in time when a decision is made to be with someone that cheats on their spouse and they do for as long as they're able. Sometimes they get their S back...sometimes they get their MM/MW. They each cry in the night and love someone who more than likely isn't worthy of that love. They each wonder how they could end up in that situation. They each work through each day always hoping the next will be better. They probably each have memories ruined by the actions of the BS/AP. Each struggles to carve a future and come out of it with as little damage as possible.

 

I would never have been strong enough to take my exH back...to me the easy option was to leave and minimize the damage.

 

This is profound MF....

[carhill]

Is there support in the challenge? A question asked by our MC and practiced by him in therapy. Challenges aplenty; support of both perspectives as a balance to the process. Balance is key, IMO. I never would've broken the unhealthy cycle of the EA without it. Balance kept me engaged and allowed the process to work. YMMV....

[bentnotbroken]

Don't mind if I do:D....

 

Actually in a recent thread I did some soul searching and did find that I knew from the beginning, but M'ed anyway because I "thought", even with the knowing gut feeling, that he would NEVER cheat on me.

 

Isn't this the statement that most BS's make to the OW/OM...don't kid yourself, if he/she cheated on me, he/she will cheat on you too.

 

Almost everything could be turned around in the other direction.

 

Sure there are some that are sincerely blind-sided, although there are some that knew from the gate.

 

I am not sure I could throw that in a BS's face, even though I know it to be the truth.

 

This is a bit off of the question, although would like to state this view also...in the case of some BS's, I think by negativity and not treating their S's correctly, they should share in some of the resposibility concerning the A...many speak of "choices", this goes both ways, they made the "choice" not to treat their S correctly and are at fault also.

 

 

Responsibility for poor choices in the treatment of a spouse....yes, it that is indeed what happened. Responsibility for the spouse's immaturity(by having an affair instead of leaving) in dealing with that....never.

[pureinheart]

 

I agree with what you are saying Jeannie. I do enjoy different viewpoints when I post, always. thats what its all about. But when someone delivers there opinion in such a harsh and insulting manner it is not at all helpful to the op and I too have considered leaving LS because of it.

 

This, I believe is what this thread is all about....to try to reason with all concerning this matter.

 

Kis, it's about boundries, there are those that have no comunicative boundries, meaning they spout off with whatever pops in their head, possibly due to unresolved personal issues...that is scary to me. LS can be very unhealthy and very inhuman at times, although I hope you don't leave.

 

There is a difference concerning the "issue" and the "person"...if the discussion is concerning a particular "position", deal with the position, if it is dealing with a person IMO the "person" needs to be taken into consideration FIRST and go from there and then approach the "position" if the discussion provides opportunity. I think the position should be addressed in a worthy manor, meaning respectful.

[pureinheart]

Responsibility for poor choices in the treatment of a spouse....yes, it that is indeed what happened. Responsibility for the spouse's immaturity(by having an affair instead of leaving) in dealing with that....never.

 

Sometimes they go hand in hand, I know you don't agree with this, but I lived it....

[bentnotbroken]

Sometimes they go hand in hand, I know you don't agree with this, but I lived it....

 

 

So is Mr. Messy responsible for the way I treated him or was that my choice? In spite of the things he said and did, he shares no blame in those choices. I was responsible for my choice to respond the way I did....just as he was responsible for his choices.

[pureinheart]

Fair enough. I've voiced my thoughts. Don't see that I can add much else. Have a good weekend.

 

Hi Owl...

 

Concerning the mods...well there's one and he is overwhelmed...so we should be big people.

 

Possibly do our own "policing" per se????? Hope you didn't go, you throw in those one liners that are cool at times ...hey if your gone, have a good weekend also...

[pureinheart]

So is Mr. Messy responsible for the way I treated him or was that my choice? In spite of the things he said and did, he shares no blame in those choices. I was responsible for my choice to respond the way I did....just as he was responsible for his choices.

 

I usually find that both are responsible for the break up of a M...not trying to be mean at all...k...takes two to make and two to break it, and I'm not blaming anyone in your sitch.

 

You know Bent, this brings to mind one M...he was abusive (so was I) and I was very ill one afternoon...I was helping him with a project and was unable to hold this 100lb panel up over my head...he yelled and screamed at me. When the project was completed I went in the bathroom and laid on the floor and begged God to change my sitch...well he did and left me for someone else.

 

My life became much better after his sudden departure...I got hit hard and heavy in the beginning, BUT all changed within a month.

 

Your sitch may have been a blessing in disguise, regardless of who did what, you both are prospering separately...he may not be as much as you.

 

These are such personal, intricate matters that it's difficult to define a persons own situation, only the 2 people know all of the little details that make a R or M in your case.

 

Because I only know parts of your sitch, I would say that your exH did not hold up his end of the bargan, with all the details aside, he promised to take care of you...richer/poorer ect.

 

IMO you might be more agitated with that aspect than the A, due to the A taking place after you two separated (thinking that's what went down?).

 

Were you hoping for reconciliation? Had he been telling you that he was going to work things out?

[bentnotbroken]

I usually find that both are responsible for the break up of a M...not trying to be mean at all...k...takes two to make and two to break it, and I'm not blaming anyone in your sitch.

 

You know Bent, this brings to mind one M...he was abusive (so was I) and I was very ill one afternoon...I was helping him with a project and was unable to hold this 100lb panel up over my head...he yelled and screamed at me. When the project was completed I went in the bathroom and laid on the floor and begged God to change my sitch...well he did and left me for someone else.

 

My life became much better after his sudden departure...I got hit hard and heavy in the beginning, BUT all changed within a month.

 

Your sitch may have been a blessing in disguise, regardless of who did what, you both are prospering separately...he may not be as much as you.

 

These are such personal, intricate matters that it's difficult to define a persons own situation, only the 2 people know all of the little details that make a R or M in your case.

 

Because I only know parts of your sitch, I would say that your exH did not hold up his end of the bargan, with all the details aside, he promised to take care of you...richer/poorer ect.

 

IMO you might be more agitated with that aspect than the A, due to the A taking place after you two separated (thinking that's what went down?).

 

Were you hoping for reconciliation? Had he been telling you that he was going to work things out?

 

 

No, the affair happened during our marriage(the last one I found out about)all the while he was telling me that I was imagining things. No reconciliation wanted or needed. I gave him just enough rope for him to hang himself and the ow. I'm not agitated, but I will always despise affairs because of the lying and deceit that is involved. If the love is gone, leave....simple.

 

And yes both are responsible for the marital problems, but only one for the choice of an affair.

[lilagirl]

As a new poster, who has been both flamed as well as appreciative of the viewpoints on this forum... I have this to offer...

 

What I appreciate about LS oposing viewpoints - when people give me another perspective to think about...

 

what I don`t like - when I hear things like... he is lying to you, how can you trust a liar, you need to get out now... YOU dont know my A. Its not the same R as your WS, or I am not YOU. If it was phrased like, "my MM was a liar... you need to be careful". That is allot different.

 

When I can FEEL the anger through the post, as though the poster has nothing better to do, than sit at their computer and get actually angry at me for my A - thats over the top.

 

I will be honest and say that I have allot more "me" to offer this site, but I refuse, because frankly - its not worth it, I get easily misinterpretted by other peoples past situations, and hurts, and judgements. I end up spending my follow up posts defending myself, rather than just venting, or sharing my story, or recieving advice. If I ask a question that has nothing to do with going NC, or ending things... then thats not what I want to hear about in the follow up.

[califnan]

 

I will be honest and say that I have allot more "me" to offer this site, but I refuse, because frankly - its not worth it, I get easily misinterpretted by other peoples past situations, and hurts, and judgements. I end up spending my follow up posts defending myself, rather than just venting, or sharing my story, or recieving advice. If I ask a question that has nothing to do with going NC, or ending things... then thats not what I want to hear about in the follow up.

 

-----------------------

 

Lilagirl, I'm glad you did stay around and comment according to your life's experiences though ..

 

Having started a thread or two, I have noticed that with all of the opposing views - narrative takes more time, energy and responsibility than I wish to give to it.. I feel much more free when just contributing to other threads..

[herenow]

So Jennie, at what point is it OK for a BW to voice her opinion? How long should a new poster be shielded from the reality that affairs cause pain to everyone involved (most of the time)? How long to you want us to fake it so that a new poster doesn't have to face the raw truth?

 

In the end, how does continuing deceit help anyone? Why would anyone want to come to a support forum where part of the population are afraid to voice their opinion because it may upset someone? Sounds ineffective to me but that's JMO.

Edited May 22, 2010 by herenow

[pureinheart]

What I'm struggling with is that there's an OPINION that some posters who are being "brow-beaten" by the BS's who post here...and at the moment, I'm feeling rather "brow-beaten" for being a BS who posts here.

 

In other words...I get that you don't like the way that some opinions are being "forced". However, I'm feeling that you're doing the same thing right now trying to force YOUR opinion on the subject at hand. Committing the same offense you're accusing other of, IMHO.

 

Could it be more about how posters come across, and I know jennie refering to the new members, but I would like to see all posters respect one another.

 

This is how I feel..it's all about subject matter...If I go into the infidelity forum, I am not going to expect BS's to accept my views and opinions.

[pureinheart]

No, the affair happened during our marriage(the last one I found out about)all the while he was telling me that I was imagining things. No reconciliation wanted or needed. I gave him just enough rope for him to hang himself and the ow. I'm not agitated, but I will always despise affairs because of the lying and deceit that is involved. If the love is gone, leave....simple.

 

And yes both are responsible for the marital problems, but only one for the choice of an affair.

 

To you A's are the worst thing that could happen in a M...to me it is different, I think in some cases A's are a result of a possible bad M.

 

BTW, I am so sorry that happened to you...I understand how you feel, there are certain things/happenings that I cannot in any way shape or form wrap my brain around...

 

You know Bent, I have been hurt so bad that I don't think there could be anymore, and then more comes. I have a disdain for certain things, R's in particular right now, it seems like this world is going crazy. I don't trust my judgment concerning R's right now and re-evaluating everything...actually am walking in a bit of devastation, although trying to involve myself in possitive things...

 

Just out of curiousity, as I don't think I've ever heard why you post in the OW/OM forum, it seems as if this forum would do nothing but hurt you more...possibly wrong.

 

I fit in in all of them, but this one is where I've received healing.

 

I have read some of your replies in other forums and you interact well, this one you seem different and I wish that weren't the case.

[pureinheart]

How could that be possible, since no one gets PM privileges at the get go?

 

I think if you are "supporting member" that function is activated immediately. You know Donna, that is an even better point to be careful concerning new members.

[pureinheart]

As a new poster, who has been both flamed as well as appreciative of the viewpoints on this forum... I have this to offer...

 

What I appreciate about LS oposing viewpoints - when people give me another perspective to think about...

 

what I don`t like - when I hear things like... he is lying to you, how can you trust a liar, you need to get out now... YOU dont know my A. Its not the same R as your WS, or I am not YOU. If it was phrased like, "my MM was a liar... you need to be careful". That is allot different.

 

When I can FEEL the anger through the post, as though the poster has nothing better to do, than sit at their computer and get actually angry at me for my A - thats over the top.

 

I will be honest and say that I have allot more "me" to offer this site, but I refuse, because frankly - its not worth it, I get easily misinterpretted by other peoples past situations, and hurts, and judgements. I end up spending my follow up posts defending myself, rather than just venting, or sharing my story, or recieving advice. If I ask a question that has nothing to do with going NC, or ending things... then thats not what I want to hear about in the follow up.

 

That is what I try to do, and this is a good reminder for me. It would be really good to hear more of you Lila...you seem like a cool person...this IS the OM/OW forum and you have a right under LS rules to do so.

[bittersweet memories]

To you A's are the worst thing that could happen in a M...to me it is different, I think in some cases A's are a result of a possible bad M.

 

BTW, I am so sorry that happened to you...I understand how you feel, there are certain things/happenings that I cannot in any way shape or form wrap my brain around...

 

You know Bent, I have been hurt so bad that I don't think there could be anymore, and then more comes. I have a disdain for certain things, R's in particular right now, it seems like this world is going crazy. I don't trust my judgment concerning R's right now and re-evaluating everything...actually am walking in a bit of devastation, although trying to involve myself in possitive things...

 

Just out of curiousity, as I don't think I've ever heard why you post in the OW/OM forum, it seems as if this forum would do nothing but hurt you more...possibly wrong.

 

I fit in in all of them, but this one is where I've received healing.

 

I have read some of your replies in other forums and you interact well, this one you seem different and I wish that weren't the case.

 

So whats the worst thing that can happen in a marriage if its not affairs for you?

[bentnotbroken]

To you A's are the worst thing that could happen in a M...to me it is different, I think in some cases A's are a result of a possible bad M.

 

BTW, I am so sorry that happened to you...I understand how you feel, there are certain things/happenings that I cannot in any way shape or form wrap my brain around...

 

You know Bent, I have been hurt so bad that I don't think there could be anymore, and then more comes. I have a disdain for certain things, R's in particular right now, it seems like this world is going crazy. I don't trust my judgment concerning R's right now and re-evaluating everything...actually am walking in a bit of devastation, although trying to involve myself in possitive things...

 

Just out of curiousity, as I don't think I've ever heard why you post in the OW/OM forum, it seems as if this forum would do nothing but hurt you more...possibly wrong.

 

I fit in in all of them, but this one is where I've received healing.

 

I have read some of your replies in other forums and you interact well, this one you seem different and I wish that weren't the case.

 

 

I view affairs as lying and deceit. It is less about the sex or even the emotional involvement. But I have no tolerance for the gas lighting. That is emotional and mental abuse. It doesn't just affect the one being lied to, but the way that person deals with other aspects of their life. How can you trust your own judgement after being lied to like that? I also don't get anyone who exposes others the possibility of STD's without their permission.

 

No, posting here doesn't bother me at all. I have developed relationships through PM and email and I enjoy talking with them. I don't know how I seem different, my stance is the same in all forums. I don't change who I am to state a point of view. I post on topics that I am interested in no matter where that is. I don't feel limited to any one place. I post in religion, parenting, infidelity, water color, abuse, vents, political and if they had a pet place or sports forum, I would probably post there too.