New posters on the OW/OM forum and the Infidelity forum

[donnamaybe]

I am glad you find me funny. I find you tragic.

 

Oh, hon, this is so sad. Actually, I feel it is much more tragic that anyone waste their life on a person who is obviously never going to give themselves completely, based on four years of demonstrable evidence.

 

Now let's play nice, shall we? It's Friday. That's a good thing.

[jthorne]

I see you the same way....it's nice to finally agree about something.

I for one, Bent, find you inspirational. Even if you completely disregard the infidelity (kinda hard to though) you've been through a very very difficult situation, and have come out a better person. I admire you for that.

 

And I'm glad you two agree on something.

 

Sorry for the tj.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Is it then appropriate for me to start seeking out new BS's threads and state my opinion that tough luck, your husband is in love with another woman, that is just how life goes, suck it up, I don't believe in marriage anyway?

 

Appropriate? Its certainly your right and your opinion. I'm with bent though, I got a good laugh out of the fact that you are requesting that BS's show self-control and empathy toward someone who's problems exist because they have chosen to show neither. "Moral relativism" hmmm... does that apply to everyone or just the differences YOU choose. Because if so, then there is no reason for even this thread.

 

Perhaps we could all have our posts approved by you and a few others who tend to want to tell people what they should and shouldn't post. I don't personally agree with attacking people, but I also don't see "anyone's" difference of opinion quite as threatening as some people seem to. I'm not a big fan of censorship.

 

It has been brought up that there are boards which exist solely for both the BS and OW. Frankly, I've read both and they offer little more than cheerleading, on both sides. Anyone who prefers that should make the personal choice to go there rather trying to change this board into the others.

 

I post on ANY forum with a thread that catches my attention. As a registered member it is my right to do so despite what other's might think of my opinions.

[bentnotbroken]

I for one, Bent, find you inspirational. Even if you completely disregard the infidelity (kinda hard to though) you've been through a very very difficult situation, and have come out a better person. I admire you for that.

 

And I'm glad you two agree on something.

 

Sorry for the tj.

 

 

I appreciate your kind words, but all the glory goes to God. I am not worth his time or grace, but so glad he sees otherwise. And agreement, especially on Friday, is a good thing. :D

[jennie-jennie]

It never bothered me. Just shows that I have the capacity to make (what I perceive as) a mistake and learn from it. It just bothered me when anything I would say would be discounted because of who I am, but even that doesn't bother me anymore. It is what it is, yeah? Like I said, everybody has different viewpoints. My life doesn't change by what someone here decided to do with their life, and LS will be just fine long after I'm gone.

 

I am happy to see that you and I seem to have reached a point where we are able to discuss civilly with each other although we from time to time/often do not agree.

But back to the topic- I get what you are saying. But regardless of how anyone feels about OW's or Infidelity, I think what you are asking simply isn't practical on a public (non-moderated) forum.

 

Perhaps not. I just wanted to bring up the topic to discussion since I noticed a difference in the posting manner of the BS on the OW/OM forum compared to at least my own posting manners on the Infidelity forum. Hopefully it will make some BS posters think and consider whether what they are posting to an OW/OM new on LS is truly helpful, or if refraining to post for just a little while might be of more help to the new poster.

[jwi71]

Correction, this should read:

 

Is it then appropriate for me to start seeking out new BS's threads and state my opinion that tough luck, your husband is in love with another woman, that is just how life goes, suck it up, I don't believe in marriage anyway?

 

OK, and as a BS...YES, you can and should if you believe that saying such has a reasonable chance of being beneficial to the poster.

 

And yes, I've said it MYSELF (not in so many words - decorum you know).

 

I've laid into BS over there just as harshly as the OW/OM over here.

 

As long as what you say does not violate TOS and is designed to be helpful (we all KNOW the difference)...then you SHOULD say it.

 

And, I don't often post over there either - the responses tend to be longer (I'm lazy) and more involved (lazy again) and, prolly more delicate (they are in mind searing pain at betrayal - something the OW/OM is not facing - basically lazy again).

 

As far as your "welcoming committee" of OW/OM only...I can kinda see it but...

1) These forums exist elsewhere.

2) It is the internet you know - you get all kinds, tin foil hat wearing loonies as well.

3) Deprives the OP of another valid viewpoint in the triangle..or dodecahedron for some it seems. (Oh yeah, I want more bonus points for saying dodecahedron outside of geometry.)

4) How boring would that be? A forum of everyone on the same page, how would ANYONE grow?

5) Posters unwilling to face criticism aren't looking for support anyway. They want validation for their actions.

 

My .02

[bittersweet memories]

I have a theory.

 

When I go to the Infidelity forum, it is because I want to discuss a topic which is brought up there. I don't go there to welcome and support new BS posters. I don't go there to tell a new poster that I believe an OW has a right to pursue a relationship with a MM if she is in love with him. I leave it to the BSs to welcome another BS, and this in spite of the fact that I have been a BS myself in my two prior long term relationships.

 

When I see BSs posting here on the OW/OM forum sometimes it is to discuss topics brought up here, but very often it is to give tough love to new OW/OM posters. At times this leads to the new posters feeling that LS is not the place for them, which is unfortunate since they have turned to LS because they were in need of support.

 

Perhaps we should leave the welcoming to the respective group on each forum. There is no need to worry that tough love will not be delivered on the OW/OM forum, since there are such varying opinions among the OW/OM themselves.

 

1) Do you post on both forums?

2) Do you post on new posters' threads in the other forum?

 

 

Sometimes from what I notice "welcoming" is not even done to some BS or OW/OM...its down to business. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

In some cases some of these OW/OM are seeking the tough love and encouragment to leave their situation.

[bittersweet memories]

Is it then appropriate for me to start seeking out new BS threads and state my opinion that tough luck, your husband is in love with another woman, that is just how life goes, suck it up, I don't believe in marriage anyway?

 

 

Do it if you wish...but have to say it would look really foolish. In the end of the day he is still with the wife and the OW/OM still waiting after 5, 10 and even 15 years. wow...you call that love on MM part?

[Owl]

My only thought after reading this thread is the recommendation that we leave the moderating to the moderator?

[jthorne]

Well, here's another thing. When I came here, I didn't know Bent's history. I just saw that she gave what I considered a common sense viewpoint. I STILL don't know IWWH's history, who has posted above. There's a lot of other posters who I am not completely familiar with what brought them here. I've seen some BS who have been far more understanding than I might be about a situation. Everybody's different.

 

3) Deprives the OP of another valid viewpoint in the triangle..or dodecahedron for some it seems. (Oh yeah, I want more bonus points for saying dodecahedron outside of geometry.)

 

5) Posters unwilling to face criticism aren't looking for support anyway. They want validation for their actions.

 

My .02

3)Wow. Bonus points granted. I love your posts not just for their content, but creative vocabulary.

 

5) Exactly.

[jennie-jennie]

Why yes, some BS treat OM/OW like crap here. And some OM/OW also treat BS like crap here.

 

But that's because they're the type of people that treat other people like crap.

 

It's their nature. It isn't because they're on one side and you're on the other. They'll always find some reason to treat someone else badly.

 

I agree.

And appealing to their logic or sensibilities is pretty much a waste of time and energy.

 

Perhaps I was overly optimistic here, but who can blame me for trying?

[jennie-jennie]

Oh, hon, this is so sad. Actually, I feel it is much more tragic that anyone waste their life on a person who is obviously never going to give themselves completely, based on four years of demonstrable evidence.

 

Fortunately it is my opinion that counts on whether I have wasted even one day on my MM. You know my philosophy, only stay as long as the good outweighs the bad. And as long as it does not a single day is wasted.

[2sure]

I have been both OW and BS. Reading and posting in each of the forums has helped in my personal growth - which is why I'm here. I thought, this being a relationship forum, that thats why all poster come here.

 

Being experienced on both sides of the coin, I also feel my hindsight has something to offer. I know it does, especially to women younger than myself.

 

My opinions and offerings are just that. My experience here on LS has magnified for me the need for all of us to call it like it is. I am A-OK with 99% of whatever it is that constitutes a relationship with most of the posters here...but I see a lot of justifications and excuses. To me, they arent necessary, are not real, not sincere. For all of us, it seems especially women...anything you do, anything you need can be alright as long as you own it and dont lie to yourself. If I think someone is not being good to themselves by not recognizing the "real" I try to point that out.

This venue, being anonymous is a GREAT way to dig deep. We need that.

Gotta have all sides.

[jennie-jennie]

OK, and as a BS...YES, you can and should if you believe that saying such has a reasonable chance of being beneficial to the poster.

 

And yes, I've said it MYSELF (not in so many words - decorum you know).

 

I've laid into BS over there just as harshly as the OW/OM over here.

 

As long as what you say does not violate TOS and is designed to be helpful (we all KNOW the difference)...then you SHOULD say it.

 

I do question whether this is really the case or if the main motivation is relieving oneself of dammed up emotions.

 

And, I don't often post over there either - the responses tend to be longer (I'm lazy) and more involved (lazy again) and, prolly more delicate (they are in mind searing pain at betrayal - something the OW/OM is not facing - basically lazy again).

 

Being an OW/OM is pretty delicate as well since many do not have any support IRL, no one to talk to.

As far as your "welcoming committee" of OW/OM only...I can kinda see it but...

1) These forums exist elsewhere.

 

I have not found one single other OW/OM forum where I felt welcomed. Their one-sided view on extramarital affairs was too firmly laid out for it to suit me.

2) It is the internet you know - you get all kinds, tin foil hat wearing loonies as well.

 

True.

3) Deprives the OP of another valid viewpoint in the triangle..or dodecahedron for some it seems. (Oh yeah, I want more bonus points for saying dodecahedron outside of geometry.)

 

No, it doesn't since I am only talking about the initial thread of a new poster. And also we have the reformed OW who pretty much hold the same viewpoint as the BSs.

4) How boring would that be? A forum of everyone on the same page, how would ANYONE grow?

 

Again the reformed OW make sure this does not happen, and again only talking about the initial thread of a new poster.

5) Posters unwilling to face criticism aren't looking for support anyway. They want validation for their actions.

 

The reformed OW will make sure they get their share of criticism, and if they decide to stay on LS they will soon be part of all sorts of discussions with all sides of the triangle. The difference being that by this time they have had time to develop a thicker skin.

My .02

 

Always enjoy talking to you.

[reboot]

The real jist of your posts is basically saying, BS keep out. If we need your side of it we have reformed OW to give that.

 

But that's just not going to happen. And it's not realistic to expect it.

[donnamaybe]

 

I do question whether this is really the case or if the main motivation is relieving oneself of dammed up emotions.

 

But, see, this is your defensiveness coming into play. You can't approach each post from a BS that has info or advice contrary to your beliefs as if that is the case, or you will ALWAYS assume the worst.

[kis]

 

I agree.

 

 

Perhaps I was overly optimistic here, but who can blame me for trying?

 

I agree with what you are saying Jeannie. I do enjoy different viewpoints when I post, always. thats what its all about. But when someone delivers there opinion in such a harsh and insulting manner it is not at all helpful to the op and I too have considered leaving LS because of it.

[Art_Critic]

I just love it when posters try to tell other posters what to post and what opinions to form to post about

 

If all you want is sugar coated hugging and kissing then don't ask for an opinion on a web forum, go talk to a friend of yours who can put aside the truth to be your friend...

On LS you basically get the unadulterated truth of your situation...

[jennie-jennie]

I just love it when posters try to tell other posters what to post and what opinions to form to post about

If all you want is sugar coated hugging and kissing then don't ask for an opinion on a web forum, go talk to a friend of yours who can put aside the truth to be your friend...

On LS you basically get the unadulterated truth of your situation...

 

Well, I do NOT want "sugar coated hugging and kissing". Where did you get that idea from? This is what I think of "sugar coated hugging and kissing":

 

Support to me is helping a poster look within themselves to determine which is the way he/she chooses to continue, and for that end also showing the poster which options he/she has and what is other posters' experiences of these options and from being where the OP is at.

 

Support to me is not telling a poster that there is only one way to go just because for me there is only one way. Support to me is supporting the poster in finding a sustainable solution in his/her case, whether it agrees with my personal view on affairs or not.

[jennie-jennie]

 

I agree with what you are saying Jeannie. I do enjoy different viewpoints when I post, always. thats what its all about. But when someone delivers there opinion in such a harsh and insulting manner it is not at all helpful to the op and I too have considered leaving LS because of it.

 

:bunny: Thanks for understanding my viewpoint!

[jwi71]

 

I do question whether this is really the case or if the main motivation is relieving oneself of dammed up emotions.

 

My advice to you and anyone faced with this (else I would PM you)...ignore it. Responding to the response almost always degenerates the thread into a bickerfest. Entertaining in a Jerry Springer sense? Yes. Helpful? No.

 

Basically, if someone is bashing do you really think they will suddenly grow maturity because you (or anyone) challenged them on it? Simply report if you feel strongly about it and move on.

 

Most posters don't need "protection".

 

Being an OW/OM is pretty delicate as well since many do not have any support IRL, no one to talk to.

 

I was actually referring to the shock value of D-day which the OW/OM doesn't have to face per se.

 

I have not found one single other OW/OM forum where I felt welcomed. Their one-sided view on extramarital affairs was too firmly laid out for it to suit me.

 

Exactly. LS is prolly the best. And we actually self moderate pretty good.

 

No, it doesn't since I am only talking about the initial thread of a new poster. And also we have the reformed OW who pretty much hold the same viewpoint as the BSs.

 

Again the reformed OW make sure this does not happen, and again only talking about the initial thread of a new poster.

 

The reformed OW will make sure they get their share of criticism, and if they decide to stay on LS they will soon be part of all sorts of discussions with all sides of the triangle. The difference being that by this time they have had time to develop a thicker skin.

 

Posters will, like yourself, gravitate to where they "fit in"...here, or elsewhere...some posters need the other "cheerleading" forums. Others will resonate here.

 

But let me try this from another perspective.

 

How would you verify that every one is an OW/OM?

How do you execute this?

 

See where I'm going...

[Owl]

But this site isn't wrapped around YOUR definition of support...or mine for that matter.

 

The TOS determines what is acceptable, and what is not. And the moderator is the one who enforces the TOS. If you feel people are violating the TOS, you report them. If you feel the TOS is wrong, you PM the moderator.

 

Posting a thread like this just sparks arguments, not change.

 

If you want change, ask Tony how to make it happen.

[Art_Critic]

Well.. there you are telling someone how to support you or what is support...

 

You do realize that support to someone else might not be support to you or vise versa..

It is up to you to decide what you accept or leave on LS..

 

But what isn't up to you is what a poster posts.. they get to decide that and you get to decide whether or not to take that advice or leave it..

You cross the line when you tell a poster what or how to post..

 

In a way.. you are trying to control the outcome of your experience on LS instead of just sitting back and getting hit in the face with the reality of life.

[jennie-jennie]

Many OW/OM (and WS as well) are not ready to end their extramarital relationship. My hope is that LS should be a place of support for these posters as well. You need support while you are IN the relationship as well as when you are at the end of it.

[jennie-jennie]

But let me try this from another perspective.

 

How would you verify that every one is an OW/OM?

How do you execute this?

 

See where I'm going...

 

You can't of course. Just trying to plant a seed for self-regulation.