Here I am again or closure?

[PhoenixRise]

Again here my motivations are not understood. PR please listen to me.

 

My original text to him said something like:

 

'My M is over. I still love you. I need to hear something from you to help me move on. Was it just a game to you?'

 

This really was not an attempt to rekindle, as you see.

 

Then he sent

 

I think about you every minute of every day etc.

 

WTF? Move on?

 

No. His text did all the rekindling here. He made it clear his feelings were still present now. He didn't need to do this if he wanted to be nice. I was asking for:

 

'I had feelings for you but my M is more important. It wasn't a game, but it's over.'

 

Are you going to listen to me yet PR?

 

 

I am listening to you. I also read your OP, EVERYTHING you said in your OP and what you are saying above differs in tone and connotation from what you initially stated in your OP.

 

You have said in your OP that during this encounter he told you he loved you and that you then hoped you two would get back together.

 

I based my comments on what you said.

 

I stand my my statement that you were in turmoil so you opened a can of worms (by texting him) that sent them into turmoil. Did your H know that you was the one who initiated contact with MOM before he stormed over there to confront him/ hit him?

 

 

WW believe it or not. I do want you to be happy.

Edited May 21, 2010 by PhoenixRise

[califnan]

I think "help" may be that of including things that went amiss in the past .. But it is also that of thrusting the individual forward into a renewed encouraging future ..

 

Continued (grinding away) accusations do not accomplish this ..

[PhoenixRise]

I just wanted to add...

 

 

If an AP's husband came around 10 months later to confront me and beat me up after I responded to a text she sent to me, It would not take a BS standing in the background holding the reigns for me to send an NC email.

 

His wife didn't need to tell him to ask for NC with you.

 

You and you H are both lucky your H didn't land in jail.

[wheelwright]

I am listening to you. I also read your OP, EVERYTHING you said in your OP and what you are saying above differs in tone and connotation from what you initially stated in your OP.

 

You have said in your OP that during this encounter he told you he loved you and that you then hoped you two would get back together.

 

I based my comments on what you said.

 

I stand my my statement that you were in turmoil so you opened a can of worms (by texting him) that sent them into turmoil. Did your H know that you was the one who initiated contact with MOM before he stormed over there to confront him/ hit him?

 

 

WW believe it or not. I do want you to be happy.

 

I said that's something I wondered about after his text. Can you not see how my confusion occurred in this exchange? I asked for help to MOVE ON.

 

Why do you not notice this part of my post.

 

My H knows all. It's got like that now. We're almost united in a common enemy rather than divided by an AP. He didn't know about the love text before the confrontation, though xMM might assume he did.

 

I'm glad you want me to be happy. We can agree on something!

 

As for the police comment. My H hit him softly a few times. He has never shown any other violence in the 19 years I have known him. He doesn't know how to beat someone up.

 

PR, I just want to hear that you understand I was severely confused by this text and attending explicit lack of closure. I understand you didn't know I had requested to be able to move on before. I didn't know the thread would go like this, and didn't think it important in my OP.

Edited May 21, 2010 by wheelwright
adding something

[ComputerJock]

Wheelwright,

 

If the other man came back with suitcases in hand and said I have left the wife, I love only you, lets run off together, would you dump your husband a second time like you did when you started the affair and he became a second class citizen in your marriage and run off with the other man? I aks because you seem to still be in love with him and not your husband. Have you thought about giving your husband his freedom from you?

[wheelwright]

Wheelwright,

 

If the other man came back with suitcases in hand and said I have left the wife, I love only you, lets run off together, would you dump your husband a second time like you did when you started the affair and he became a second class citizen in your marriage and run off with the other man? I aks because you seem to still be in love with him and not your husband. Have you thought about giving your husband his freedom from you?

 

CJ, yes that has been at the forefront of my mind since beginning reconciliation with my H.

 

I spent many months wishing H could fall in love with someone else, and then I could leave him without pain on his part. After 19 years, the compassion I have been feeling for my H outweighs the love for xMOM. And I also realised, and then acted on, the decision that the greater compassion was in the long-term picture, and we should split.

 

That split precipitated H's confrontation - he didn't do it before because he knew I disapproved.

 

Now, I know that xMOM either lied in his text to me 3 weeks ago, or has been lying to his W for 11 months, or lied to my H when he said he didn't love me.

 

Right now I feel this all makes him too much of a liar (or wimp perhaps) for me to consider him in the suitcases option. Plus the fact he really knew I felt I needed to talk to him, and he refused me that. He has basically shown me that whatever his feelings are, he doesn't care about me.

 

It's like there were things he could have said before to make me understand his behaviour and to allow me to go to him in this scenario.

 

No more. That's why it's closure. Plus his W loves him after all - I don't want to steal a loved man. Which is perhaps how xMOM felt about it in terms of my H.

 

I sincerely want the best for my H, and I know that may be letting him go. I have told him about this. I am still in love with xMOM, but I don't trust that at all.

 

I can't imagine any happy scenario wherein me and xMOM would be together.

 

I can with my H. With reservations that he knows about and also feels.

 

However, every love song, every novel, every film about love, every tree and blade of grass make me think of xMOM. But now I know it as a longing that will never be fulfilled.

[ComputerJock]

Thanks for the reply. It does sound like you are emotionally attached to MM. I have been BS (H) in this same situation and can understand his feelings. Right now he doesn't want to lose you because he sees the old you and still loves her, but you are the one who has changed and become a different person. Ask yourself if you two were not married and had just met, would you marry him again and more important would he want you in his life? Ask him as he deserves the answers so he can see beyond the blinders of ancient love and look at things new and fresh. His acceptance now can turn to hate and loathing later, mine did.

[ComputerJock]

WW: Does husband read your posts and has he gone to the Betrayed Spouse sites for information and guidance?

[wheelwright]

Thanks for the reply. It does sound like you are emotionally attached to MM. I have been BS (H) in this same situation and can understand his feelings. Right now he doesn't want to lose you because he sees the old you and still loves her, but you are the one who has changed and become a different person. Ask yourself if you two were not married and had just met, would you marry him again and more important would he want you in his life? Ask him as he deserves the answers so he can see beyond the blinders of ancient love and look at things new and fresh. His acceptance now can turn to hate and loathing later, mine did.

 

Could you tell me your story?

 

My H did hate me for a while but now accepts me whatever the outcome. I want to avoid what happened in your situation whatever the cost now.

 

No, I would not marry him again right now. But I also know I may be a fool in thinking this.

 

EVERYONE tells me my heart is wrong. I wonder how they know better than me, but it seems so.

 

I loved your reply above. Because of its lack of recrimination.

 

Is compassion enough? Is history enough? Or is love a requisite?

 

H is lovely. He is a diamond, a beautiful person. I do not want to treat him badly (anymore).

 

I will ask him what you suggest.

Edited May 23, 2010 by wheelwright
*

[califnan]

I think it has to do with the reverance of marriage.. Marriage is of God, Created by God, under God, God's one flesh Covenant. Understanding this can be helpful in knowing that the marriage vows were actually For God .. (to be said to God) ..

 

The respect for the original marriage covenant between you and your husband, is what should be considered.

 

The reason why groups go out of their way to protect the sanctity of marriage - is because Marriage is one of the strongest forces binding together society.

 

So in the end, the fact that you and your husband were In marriage, and Are husband and wife - that is the reason for saving the marriage - (especially when a betrayed spouse is in agreement).

[wheelwright]

WW: Does husband read your posts and has he gone to the Betrayed Spouse sites for information and guidance?

 

He doesn't but he knows the essence. He really knows how I feel, the good and bad about xMOM as well as our M. We have a lot of honesty.

 

No he hasn't sought outside help except friends. I have advised him to, but no go.

[wheelwright]

I think it has to do with the reverance of marriage.. Marriage is of God, Created by God, under God, God's one flesh Covenant. Understanding this can be helpful in knowing that the marriage vows were actually For God .. (to be said to God) ..

 

The respect for the original marriage covenant between you and your husband, is what should be considered.

 

The reason why groups go out of their way to protect the sanctity of marriage - is because Marriage is one of the strongest forces binding together society.

 

So in the end, the fact that you and your husband were In marriage, and Are husband and wife - that is the reason for saving the marriage - (especially when a betrayed spouse is in agreement).

 

OK califnan,

 

when I first encountered your posts I avoided answering because of what for me is an over the top religious thing.

 

I have since found you gentle and non-judgemental and wise in a way few here are.

 

However, my H, my xMOM, his BS do not believe in God, and none of us were married in a church.

 

I am agnostic but more believing than not.

 

How can we start talking about God's covenant if it frankly doesn't apply?

Edited May 23, 2010 by wheelwright

[ComputerJock]

WW an old story. Working nights as janitor, school during day, wife had day job. When I was at work she (I guess) got lonely and started visiting friends. They went bar hopping. Soon she was out on weekends. Then we moved to new apartment and she met new friends. During mid-term week she told me she was moving out into another apartment across the way. The next night she was moved in and left the blinds open so I could see. She had sex in front of the window so the whole apartment complex could see. No reason why, just did it. I tried too get her to come back. She came over with a different man, not the one she had sex the night before with, and said he was her new Teddy Bear. She wouldn't say why. I told her I would forgive her if she came back, she just laughed. My mom tried to talk to her, when she called me she said Sally H. was just a silly girl. School was out, hit the booze, worked as car salesman, had fits of crying that I couldn't stop. Ten years later still in love with her, but met a woman who returned my love. We married, then she died in her sleep. I still have dreams of Sally and wish there had been closure to understand why she did what she did. My love for Sally over the years has turned to hate and loathing. Which is what I warned you about your H having happen to him in the future. She flaunted her betrayal for all to see, like you did, which makes me want to ask you why since I can't ask Sally, my ex-wife. My late wife was Sandra.

 

Thanks, I hope you see that your answers are so important to me.

[califnan]

OK califnan,

 

when I first encountered your posts I avoided answering because of what for me is an over the top religious thing.

 

I have since found you gentle and non-judgemental and wise in a way few here are.

 

However, my H, my xMOM, his BS do not believe in God, and none of us were married in a church.

 

I am agnostic but more believing than not.

 

How can we start talking about God's covenant if it frankly doesn't apply?

 

--------------------

 

The reason it applies, is because God Created marriage..

 

(I will find other ways of addressing your latter post in the other thread) ..

[wheelwright]

WW an old story. Working nights as janitor, school during day, wife had day job. When I was at work she (I guess) got lonely and started visiting friends. They went bar hopping. Soon she was out on weekends. Then we moved to new apartment and she met new friends. During mid-term week she told me she was moving out into another apartment across the way. The next night she was moved in and left the blinds open so I could see. She had sex in front of the window so the whole apartment complex could see. No reason why, just did it. I tried too get her to come back. She came over with a different man, not the one she had sex the night before with, and said he was her new Teddy Bear. She wouldn't say why. I told her I would forgive her if she came back, she just laughed. My mom tried to talk to her, when she called me she said Sally H. was just a silly girl. School was out, hit the booze, worked as car salesman, had fits of crying that I couldn't stop. Ten years later still in love with her, but met a woman who returned my love. We married, then she died in her sleep. I still have dreams of Sally and wish there had been closure to understand why she did what she did. My love for Sally over the years has turned to hate and loathing. Which is what I warned you about your H having happen to him in the future. She flaunted her betrayal for all to see, like you did, which makes me want to ask you why since I can't ask Sally, my ex-wife. My late wife was Sandra.

 

Thanks, I hope you see that your answers are so important to me.

 

I did not want to flaunt my betrayal at all.

 

I am sorry about this happening to you. My H is getting closure. We talk a lot. I didn't go off and do this without any subsequent attempt to make amends.

 

Your post speaks to me of a frequently raised issue on LS -closure. I think it is so much harder to get over someone if you don't have it.

 

I feel it is only now I have closure I am beginning to get over my A.

 

I never just laugh at my H.

 

Sally sounds callous and perhaps that's what you can't understand -the callousness. I feel a bit like that about how xMOM behaved to me.

 

You sound like a sweet guy. This Sally was cruel to you.

 

I don't think you will understand your story by understanding mine.

 

I think the lack of closure plus your loss of Sandra means it haunts you.

[2sunny]

Yes!

 

Thanks everyone for responses. I agree with above that it has been stopping me go back to H properly. I needed closure and I am getting it.

 

you have had closure, now act like it. move forward... forward with H. he has been the one who has been patient with you. nothing is stopping you except you... the more you stay in the past - the less healing you will do that could lead to a happy future. IF you want your H - then act like it.

 

 

Some people here didn't notice in the OP that my xMM replied to me by text three weeks ago after 10 months NC:

 

"The love was never in question. I think about you every minute of every day"

 

Hence my recent confusion.

 

there is no confusion if you would simply quit interacting with MM in order to heal and move forward.

 

 

Today xMM and his W staged a meeting. I have to walk past their house on the school run. They were both in his car, and got out when I walked by on my way back. They hadn't just driven up. They were waiting for me. They must see me walk by the same time every day.

 

So I shout out 'I want to talk to you - either of you.' They ignore me. So I shout out - 'He said he loved me. You said you'd never loved him' - sorry if folks think that was wrong, but I am beyond that now. Anyway, they staged it, they called this shot in a way.

 

So she comes over and says she never said that she didn't love him. She had always loved him. (She was drunk when she told me this, so perhaps doesn't remember) but I feel a lot better knowing that she loves him. Things make more sense that way.

 

Then she tells me 'I don't care how f***** up you are. P*** off and leave us alone.' (My H had said about me being f***** up in the confrontation last week).

 

I think I can let go now.

 

 

stop talking about letting it go and start doing it. move if you need to. remove them from your life so you can move forward. THIS might show evidence to your H that you intend to heal the M and move forward for the sake of the M.

 

 

And Bent - this is not about drama. it is about closure. I am not at all attracted to this sort of thing. I hate it. But this is all necessary for me and my H.

 

 

you have had that opportunity for closure and you never slam the door shut. do it... do it now. no time like the present.

 

 

And on the up side, I can see weasel in xMM now. And my H seems to be happy to wait until this idea takes a firm enough grip to make me get over xMM. And he is on MY side to the point it makes me want to cry.

 

 

your H is way too patient... if he were to get MAD at you - maybe you would DO something solid instead of pretending to be over it - act like it. take action and remove this cancer from your M. move from the area if needed.

 

And thanks everyone for reminding me to think about the kids.

 

And right now, I have so much respect for my H, and so little for xMM that the tide is finally turning in my heart. It really isn't about being second choice. It is about the change of emotion that is absolutely necessary if we are to stay together. And I needed closure for that to happen.

 

stop comparing them - it's not fair to your H.

 

It is so much easier to let xMM go knowing his W loves him. It also means I have to feel more guilty about the A.

 

Perhaps in the end this A will turn out to have woken up everyone to see who they really love. My H needed to wake up, his BS also. And through all this suffering, we can evolve.

 

no evolving if there is no forward movement. let go - so you can actually move forward. you are your worst roadblock. who cares how THEY feel - it's none of your concern now - never really was- THEY are the ones in their M, not you. stay out of it.

 

 

That's not to say I recommend As. It has been a terrible time in my life.

 

then let it go. stop obsessing about the A... when you do - you give the A so much of your power.

[ComputerJock]

WW: As I look back on what happened I think you are right. Closure is so important, but if you can't get closure, maybe you can settle with the fact that Sally was just not a nice person. Sandra was and I am so blessed to have had her for a wife. I may not have closure but I was lucky enough to have a loving and faithful wife.

 

Thanks for sharing with me.

 

Mike

[PhoenixRise]

PR, I just want to hear that you understand I was severely confused by this text and attending explicit lack of closure. I understand you didn't know I had requested to be able to move on before. I didn't know the thread would go like this, and didn't think it important in my OP.

 

 

WW

 

I do believe that you were severely confused by the text. TBH I think you were confused before the text and the lack of closure.

 

I really think moving on is something you have to do yourself and no one can really help you with that.

 

The same with closure. I think closure is something you give yourself when you decide it is over. I think you never felt closure because YOU never decided it was over for you.

 

Regardless of how and why things went down in the end it seems like you are in a better place now. So I hope you continue to heal and figure out what you want and how you are going to get there.

 

I do want to point out that based on what you are now saying about reconciliation with your H and your continuing feelings for MM, It looks like you are doing the same thing you believe MM has done....stayed with someone he doesn't love because it is just easier or whatever reason you think he stayed.

 

I said in a prior post in this thread that his ethics are his and yours are yours. If you don't love your husband and your heart is elsewhere I hope you will find the courage to leave him for your sake and his. Nobody wants to be with somebody who is dreaming about somebody else. The fact that you now believe you can't have a future with MM doesn't change how you feel about him.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.