moimeme Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 That ship has sailed. She's already been here, says Samson. Could be lurking for all we know. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Yikes! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Samson Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 Bah! That's "crotchety curmudgeon's" speak for I could hardly give a damn, meanon. Kriz^, you have had a glimpse of terrible reality. Just imagine, spending your every waking hour with your every move, your every breath, and every word, being weighed on a woman's emotional scales (not exactly balanced in every case) against her expectations. Anything that fails the test and fall below the level of her expectation, is recorded for posterity. The aggregate of your failings will be regurgitated at any opportunity she feels particularly threatened. She, typical of moimeme's position, will feel justification in the furious emotional release on these occasions: After all, you will have caused all the pent up emotion. Perhaps you didn't put the seat down on the toilet? Small thing? ...............Absolutely NOT! Also typical will be the hypocrisy: If YOU ever release your pent up emotion then you're either a conniving adulterer, absent of passion (patently ridiculous), or a "crotchety curmudgeon" and "seething with near-anger." Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Moimeme wrote: She's already been here, says Samson. Could be lurking for all we know. I don't care. As long as this diabolical creature does not identify here as Samson's wife, I refuse to take her into account. She's just a horrid she-monster brought to this planet with the sole purpose of returning to the mounds of hell with a prey. I fear for Samson's children. I hope he is vigilant, ready to repress any traits they may have inherited from their evil mother. I hope our friend is up for the task. I hope he finds courage from divine sources to raise this demonspawn to decent human beings. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Kriz! You are KILLING me She, typical of moimeme's position, will feel justification in the furious emotional release on these occasions Typical of a curmudgeon to overstate the case. Try this one on for size, Samson: beneath every overreaction is pain. In case I wasn't clear: beneath every overreaction is pain Therfore, reacting to an overreaction with anger is generally unproductive since it tends to exacerbate the pain already causing the trouble. And, if a person has been living under a large amount of stress/pain for a long time, pretty soon it takes very little to trigger the overreaction. Take it from one who was in that position for several months. Take it from one who has observed others in the same position. Take it from one who has altered her response to the overreaction and found that it works very well. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 In rereading my last post, I sincerely hope Samson will read between the lines. I am not making fun of his situation. I was trying to offer him a suggestion by means of his own language. I hope no offense was taken, cause no harm was intended. Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I could hardly give a damn, meanon LOL Samson I had a horrid premonition you were going to say that - SCARY! I know I am being presumptuous but what the hell: So many women who behave this way doubt that they are loved. If, despite all the crap, you love your wife it may be an amazingly effective pre-emptive strike to tell her this often. Of course if she is a monster who hates you it won't work but you would lose nothing of significance (better hurt pride than loss of a marriage). Things may be too far gone for this - therapy may help restore the conditions for love if if this is the case. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Samson Posted January 28, 2004 Author Share Posted January 28, 2004 Kriz^, you're tuning into my wavelength. No worries If anything I see your post as more a parody for Moimeme's sake, since she seems to beleive that I have accepted her appraisal that I'm overreacting, in pain, near-angry, yada, yada ,yada, yada..........Yodel. Well, sorry to say, I'm not brainwashed with this mantra yet, Either she need to accept her role as a hypocrite, who sees every male's emotionally driven action as uncontrolled anger and every female's action as an acceptable response to every internal disappointment; OR, she needs to admit she is a moral relativist, and that ALL our actions, female and male, are dependent on the emotional state in which they arise. This would include infidelity, which, despite any refusal to admit it, would be and example of passion based action Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Or © None of the Above, since you've gotten all of everything I've said wrong and turning those two cases into a dichotomy which you claim is the only possible set of options is also fallacious. Clearly, I'm unable to articulate my points in any way you'll understand so I'll leave you to the rest, a blessing for which I'm positive you'll be eternally grateful. You may have intended, by misstating my position, to goad me into debating you further. Not gonna bite. Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 beneath every overreaction is pain Why, why must you try to disarm this man? The emotional scales he talks of do exist. I've seen a glimpse of them. Somewhere along the road he failed to live up to high expectations, and we should be glad the Optimist has only taken a few hits, instead of being permanently banned to the marital graveyard. What I meant by focusing on your children. You must love those little rats. Perhaps you could seek good in them that they got from their mother. It's obvious your wife has put up a smokescreen to hide her qualities from you(or to hide she has none), maybe you could learn to bear her presence again by spending time together with your children. In the worst case scenerio, it won't help your marriage, but you'll have witnesses, so the hydra will not show her true nature for a while. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Samson Posted January 29, 2004 Author Share Posted January 29, 2004 This will be the last posting from me from Hell. If you have read the thread you will be aware that there was the possibility that wife could be reading, and that it wouldn't matter to me since I hadn't embellished my thoughts or feelings during my posts, nor had I posted anything of which she was not already aware. Rather than speculate about the possibilities, I am much more accustomed to testing hypothesis and discovering fact; therefore, why not simply invite her to read the thread. So I did. Despite finding moimeme's postings most agreeable (I fell M's deserves this recognition, regardless her extraordinary insistance that she is not a moral relativist, which I asumed would be a complement), the overall reaction was one of disapproval, which soon turned to DEFCON 1 status. The net day I took meanon's words: you love your wife it may be an amazingly effective pre-emptive strike to tell her this often. and decided to test this hypothesis as well. It has been "amazingly effective." Thanks to all at LS Link to post Share on other sites
Kriz Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Good news! I'm glad things worked out. Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Samson It has been "amazingly effective."Wow! Your wife only needed more stroking. Link to post Share on other sites
cdn Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 I'm happy for you, Samson. I hope your peace is a lasting one. I also hope you'll keep posting, even if not from hell! Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Fantastic news Samson!!!!!! Leave Hell but PLEASE don't leave LS - I'd miss you Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 You could knock me down with a feather! I am delighted, Samson, that you listened to Meanon. Sorry about not being happy about being called a relativist; I am, but there is a vast difference between meta-ethical relativism and situational ethics. Someday, maybe, I'll start a thread on it. To Samson's wife: glad you liked what I said. It goes both ways, though. No matter what your curmudgeon would have you believe, beneath his anger is also pain. Both of you need to know that both of you love each other. That will take you a long way through whatever pain and difficulties exist. Once you forge your bond as a team, then you have the tools to work as a partnership together to achieve both your aims. Don't let the 'if X loved me, X would do Z action' myth allow you to believe that you don't love each other; Meanon described that syndrome perfectly. We invest action with great symbolism - to our own sorrow. It's hard not to do, but I think if there is 'unconditional love' in marriage, it would involve removing all those 'if s/he really loved me...' conditions. Aim for that. I wish you both the very best of luck and love Merry Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Best wishes Samson...I hope things work out and y'all are both very happy! Just hang in there, you have been working hard on this marriage and I know you truly care about your wife or you wouldn't do the counseling or come here for venting....keep us updated, maybe the marriage will be repaired to the point that it's fulfilling AND a fun! Take care! Link to post Share on other sites
meanon Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 Originally posted by Moimeme: Don't let the 'if X loved me, X would do Z action' myth allow you to believe that you don't love each other; OK I'm still in confessional mode - I did this quite a lot when I was younger and my then bf and I were having problems. Every woman I've asked has done it too (apologies in advance to those that haven't). I posted on Jenny's thread (Tips for Wives) about the same thing: The biggest failing I have seen that almost every woman I know has done at some point (especially when feeling insecure) is the false test. You are wondering if he still loves you as much/finds you as hot/insert whatever your insecurity of the moment is. To try and get rid of the worry, rather than come right out and ask (well he would say he loved me wouldn't he?) you set a false test. If he loved me he'd ........................ (kiss me when he comes in/want to marry me/cook my dinner/insert own false test here). Of course the poor guy doesn't know he's being tested and and so fails miserably - case proved, send that man down!! Cue hurt feelings, confusion, more insecurity etc. False tests are even more difficult to spot when they are done subconsciously - believe me they are lurking. Rule no. 11: Avoid False Tests!!!! So guys - if you feel you are being punished and are not sure why, if you think your wife/gf is "using sex as a weapon", odds are that you have failed a false test. Tell her you love her and you may redeem your sorry self Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I believe it's Ellis who talks about this in terms of symbolic acts. For whatever reason, people imbue certain acts with meaning, specifically that they are proof of love. This can only be the case if both people consider them 'proofs' - and, really, it's probably healthier not to have different 'proofs' such as whether the person is loyal rather than whether s/he squeezes the toothpaste in the right spot. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i'm happy for your marriage, Samson, but sad about my now unfulfilled need for hemingwaian forum-lit. do you think you could wax laconically about any of your pets once in awhilejust for a treat? Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts