When is it ok to have an affair?

May 12, 2010

PERFECT!
This is what I wanted to talk about. Assuming that most people base their morals upon their faith...
Not committing adultery and not committing murder are both Commandments.
(I imagine there are other like teachings in non-Christian faiths.)
However, murder can be justified in certain circumstances.
To many adultery can not, but to some it can.

Is one Commandment more important than another? And if so, why?

According to the teachings that I have studied, one commandment isn't more important than another. But I do believe the intent and repentance make the difference. Killing for instance to save the lives of others, isn't that what the police, military and in some cases civilians do? Was the intent to kill or to save? Do they seek forgiveness for having to end a life? Does it affect them? I can only guess it has a negative affect even done to save others. A person with the heart to do the right thing does not want to do what "might" hurt anyone, including the "killer". I think I will pose this question to my pastor.

The cheating for a lot of the cases on here and the ones I know of in real life aren't one time situations. They are a series of choices. Even if one believes in what they are doing is wrong, yet they continue the acts showing no remorse or repentance, isn't that worse? I mean this could apply to most things we do. Thou shalt not steal. I do it over and over again. I lie about it. I hide it. I show no remorse, no repentance, no intent to stop.....doesn't that imply that one is living in a state doing the wrong thing?

May 12, 2010

The children can be happy regardless of whatever woman a man loves. I see no contradiction between our love and his caring for his children and their needs.

Because I have as much a right to a man that loves me as does his wife.

You have NO right to be going near any member of that family. As a child of a father who had an affair I can tell you that it brought nothing but shame and dismay into our family. Was I happy that my father found some "new love" at the expense of my mother's dignity. Absolutely not. What utter crap! A man who truly cares for his children will not betray their mother like this and break everyone's heart. He will own his decisions and pick what is best for everyone, be that creating a healthier relationship with his wife or if that is not possible, leaving. The needs of the children are a healthy, bonded, happy family, even into adulthood despite the divorce everyone rhetoric that seems to thrive today.

You have no right to sleep with another woman's husband. It is like taking the neighbour's dog because you think he likes you better. It is theft, pure and simple. If he wants a new home (in the familial sense) then he should leave and stop his irresponsible behaviour. I cannot believe the justifications that OW/OM come up with, "I am in love, I cannot help it" please! How did you make it through high school?

May 12, 2010

You have NO right to be going near any member of that family. As a child of a father who had an affair I can tell you that it brought nothing but shame and dismay into our family. Was I happy that my father found some "new love" at the expense of my mother's dignity. Absolutely not. What utter crap! A man who truly cares for his children will not betray their mother like this and break everyone's heart. He will own his decisions and pick what is best for everyone, be that creating a healthier relationship with his wife or if that is not possible, leaving. The needs of the children are a healthy, bonded, happy family, even into adulthood despite the divorce everyone rhetoric that seems to thrive today.

QUOTE]

-------------------

I am so sorry. Irregardless of what their mother went through .. My sons have suffered greatly due to decisions made (affecting my sons) by my husband and his new wife, before his death ..

I know that the hurt and rejection can follow - even adults, forever..

May 12, 2010

You have no right to sleep with another woman's husband. It is like taking the neighbour's dog because you think he likes you better.

This is an interesting analogy. One of the best I've seen, actually. A pretty matter of fact way to think of it in regards to anyone involved in infidelity.

Thou shalt not steal.

May 12, 2010

People can 'relativize' their way out of any responsibility or behavior. Just look at lawyers. That is what they do for a living-bend, twist, confuse - truth, personal integrity and justice matter not one bit. Winning is what matters. So it is in affairs. The affair partner is the prize, to be won at all costs. I have never seen people endure so much, wait so long, or create so much mental anguish for themselves or others as those waiting for their married affair partner to leave the spouse.

This is what it comes down to with married people who have affairs. It comes down to whether you are a person of your word or not. If you took a vow of monogamy in front of friends and family, and then go back on it, for whatever reason, you are not a person of honor and integrity, nor someone whose word means anything. You never HAVE to have an affair, you CHOOSE to.

Leave your spouse, or tell them you want someone else and let them decide to leave you. Then move on. That at least has some integrity.

May 12, 2010

People can 'relativize' their way out of any responsibility or behavior. Just look at lawyers. That is what they do for a living-bend, twist, confuse - truth, personal integrity and justice matter not one bit. Winning is what matters. So it is in affairs. The affair partner is the prize, to be won at all costs. I have never seen people endure so much, wait so long, or create so much mental anguish for themselves or others as those waiting for their married affair partner to leave the spouse.

This is what it comes down to with married people who have affairs. It comes down to whether you are a person of your word or not. If you took a vow of monogamy in front of friends and family, and then go back on it, for whatever reason, you are not a person of honor and integrity, nor someone whose word means anything. You never HAVE to have an affair, you CHOOSE to.

Leave your spouse, or tell them you want someone else and let them decide to leave you. Then move on. That at least has some integrity.

So a person has lost integrity and honor forever? Their word means nothing forever?

Forever is a long time. Thank God Jesus met the woman at the well and not someone with harsher judgment. And thank God His love and forgiveness is what counts.

People can be so harsh. I don't get it. We should afford more mercy to one another.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Samantha0905

May 12, 2010

IM, that was a very well thought out post> I think that we need to define what an affair is. Is it infidelity? or sex outside of marriage. Not the same thing, IMO. If it is infidelity , then the short answer is no, an affair isn't a good thing, and the WS is the dishonest one. Not the OW/OM, the WS. There are many ways to have sex outside of marriage, but the key here, is that both partners are in agreement about the boundaries of these liasons.

May 12, 2010

IM, that was a very well thought out post> I think that we need to define what an affair is. Is it infidelity? or sex outside of marriage. Not the same thing, IMO. If it is infidelity , then the short answer is no, an affair isn't a good thing, and the WS is the dishonest one. Not the OW/OM, the WS. There are many ways to have sex outside of marriage, but the key here, is that both partners are in agreement about the boundaries of these liasons.

Nice job excusing the OW or OM in this.

May 12, 2010

So a person has lost integrity and honor forever? Their word means nothing forever?

Forever is a long time. Thank God Jesus met the woman at the well and not someone with harsher judgment. And thank God His love and forgiveness is what counts.

People can be so harsh. I don't get it. We should afford more mercy to one another.

I would think from the post that IM wrote that as long as one acts with no intergrity than one would have no integrity, I didn't see it written as "forever."

May 12, 2010

It's not rocket science. If you lie, cheat and deceive, then you are a liar, cheater and deceiver, and you will continue to be so, until you quit lying, cheating and deceiving.. Simple....... the old Groucho Marx joke, (Man goes to the doctor, says , "doc, it hurts when I do this". Doctor says,"don't do that") Honor and integrity are usually associated with being an honest person.

May 12, 2010

I would think from the post that IM wrote that as long as one acts with no intergrity than one would have no integrity, I didn't see it written as "forever."

Well who's deciding who has no integrity? My point is it's all a bit judgmental.

I'm thinking a lot of people here who have decided they are waving the flags of complete honesty and integrity have an issue or two themselves.

We all lack somewhat in honesty and integrity.

"Leave your spouse or tell them you want someone else" are not the only options.

May 12, 2010

Well who's deciding who has no integrity? My point is it's all a bit judgmental.

I'm thinking a lot of people here who have decided they are waving the flags of complete honesty and integrity have an issue or two themselves.

We all lack somewhat in honesty and integrity.

"Leave your spouse or tell them you want someone else" are not the only options.

Yes of course there are other options, you can cheat and thereby lose your honour and integrity.

May 12, 2010

Nobody is saying that an AP can't have other good qualities, but we are talking about a specific situation here. On this one issue, infidelity, the WS has no honor or integrity, because they are the vow-breakers, and betrayers. On other issues, marital problems, etc, then maybe they are not dishonorable, but on this one issue they are. BTW it's not a total thing either, if you stop the bad behavior, they you regain both honor and integrity, I'm excepting serial cheaters, of course.

May 12, 2010

I was reading through some old posts, and came upon a post that said it wasn't wrong for her to have an affair. It was her right to love whom she pleased. When morals were brought up, she said that "morals are relative, not absolute."

I did not wish to threadjack, but have been wondering about this. After all, I think we can all agree that it's not right to commit murder, but perhaps it's okay in self defense. In that case, I can see where morals would be relative, not absolute. But I personally have a hard time extending this to infidelity.

Thoughts?

When you have permission.

Beyond that, why not just get divorced?

May 12, 2010

As a child of a father who had an affair I can tell you that it brought nothing but shame and dismay into our family. Was I happy that my father found some "new love" at the expense of my mother's dignity. Absolutely not. What utter crap!

As a child of a father who had an A, I can tell you that it brought lightness, happiness and closeness to our father into our family, where before there had been alienation, withdrawn solitude and unhappiness. Was I happy that my father had found some "new love"? Yes, absolutely. (My mother's dignity was not remotely affected. She'd blown that with her alcoholism and neurosis long before.)

It is like taking the neighbour's dog because you think he likes you better. It is theft, pure and simple.

This bizarre analogy only works if the MM is kidnapped, or is "special needs" and lacks the adult capacity of free will and informed choice. (This makes me a little worried about the state of the American Marriage, the way people are so quick with metaphors about "theft" of husbands, like they're inert property lacking agency and free will!)

Otherwise a more appropriate analogy would be - the neighbours neglect, or abuse, their dog - who comes to take shelter in your yard. Do you take him in and care for him - or do you call up the neighbours and say, come fetch your mutt, he's in my yard again, so that they can beat him some more?

May 12, 2010

This is what it comes down to with married people who have affairs. It comes down to whether you are a person of your word or not. If you took a vow of monogamy in front of friends and family, and then go back on it, for whatever reason, you are not a person of honor and integrity, nor someone whose word means anything.

I can't speak about the vows in all countries, but in many countries civil / secular marriage vows don't require a vow of sexual exclusivity. You're no less married as a result.

May 12, 2010

Are affairs looked down upon in your country, or are they more accepted than they are in the US?

I'm not Jennie, but I'm also not from (or in) the US, and have posted on this elsewhere on these boards.

"Affairs" are pretty common in my home country, especially among certain sectors of the population - though they're not referred to as such. Polygamy is legal in my country, but aside from that, it is also common among certain sectors of the population for a man to have a GF - or GFs, if he has the time and the resources - in addition to any Ws. This is accepted as a fact of life. The Ws expect it - even though they don't like it - and their comment on it is a mere shrug. The general response is, they suspect he probably has a GF (or more), but they don't want to KNOW. He must keep her away from the W, even though the GF's children (by the MM) are welcome in his home. There is no shame attached to it. If anything, it's seen as a matter of pride (that he can afford so many women and children).

I am guessing that if Jennie married this MM and he met another woman with morals such as she claims to have...well, then I am guessing that Jennie's morals would change.

I can't speak for Jen, but my morals have not changed following my M to my fMM, despite the diversity of women he meets!

May 12, 2010

PERFECT!
This is what I wanted to talk about. Assuming that most people base their morals upon their faith...
Not committing adultery and not committing murder are both Commandments.
(I imagine there are other like teachings in non-Christian faiths.)
However, murder can be justified in certain circumstances.
To many adultery can not, but to some it can.

Is one Commandment more important than another? And if so, why?

My morals are also based on my beliefs. I'm an atheist. I believe in fundamental equalities - thus abhorring racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, or any other form of social stratification. I believe property is theft, I believe capitalist society is inherently exploitative in its organisation and I believe that marriage and the family are part of that system of exploitation, and are dysfunctional, unhealthy and morally objectionable. I believe that sexual monogamy is unnatural, and its legal enforcement is both objectionable and impossible.

Because I don't recognise the "sanctity" of M, there is absolutely no moral imperative barring me from indulging in MMs as sexual partners.

May 12, 2010

Because I don't recognise the "sanctity" of M, there is absolutely no moral imperative barring me from indulging in MMs as sexual partners.

Well said, OWoman. This covers it all.

May 12, 2010

I have still been reading all the posts and I just CAN NOT believe an affair

May 12, 2010

Maybe he just needed to rummage around in her purse and find where she was keeping his cojones?

He wasn't allowed in her bedroom

Since that is the way it played out, it looks to be the "only" way.

But in reality, there are infinite ways it could have played out--unknown possibilities that would have led to him growing stronger and leaving.

Agreed. But it took more than 30 years for him to escape - how much longer would it have been OK to wait for one of those other possibilities to manifest? He really was convinced that "staying for the kids" was the right thing to do - thinking he could offset the damage that was being done to them by being there... without realising that leaving offered the kids a way out, too.

Nevertheless, it is great that he got out. The question remains: do the ends justify the means?

I think in this case, for the overwhelming majority of people involved, they do. The kids are happy, relaxed, doing well at school and in their social and other lives; my H and I are ecstatically happy; his family are thrilled to have their son / brother back; his colleagues are relieved to have him fully functional, engaged and enthusiastic, rather than the ghost that used to waft around in his place, my kids are happy, our friends are thrilled. And, even his xW has sought counselling, so positive movement on her side too.

May 12, 2010

I have still been reading all the posts and I just CAN NOT believe an affair

Sorry that should be "the number of people that believe an affair is ok""

May 12, 2010

Because I don't recognise the "sanctity" of M, there is absolutely no moral imperative barring me from indulging in MMs as sexual partners.

My moral opposition to sleeping with persons currently in committed monogamous relationships has nothing to do with the sanctity of marriage.

May 12, 2010

Sorry that should be "the number of people that believe an affair is ok""

I don't believe an A is OK.

If it were just OK, I wouldn't waste my time. For me, it has to be crash-hot super-spectacular extra-specialextremous, or it's not worth my effort.

May 12, 2010

Because I don't recognise the "sanctity" of M, there is absolutely no moral imperative barring me from indulging in MMs as sexual partners.

My country has a zealous belief in personal freedom. It's instilled in most of us from birth, and so I will always defend your right to your own belief system and your own moral compass. However, I was also taught that my freedom ends where yours begins. In other words, I have the right to live like I want, to be who I want, to do what I want, as long as it doesn't interfere with your right to do the same.

Please don't take offense, you know I like you, but when you say things like the above (and not just you, plenty of others here say similar things all the time), it comes across to many of us as "I'll do what I want, and I don't give a damn who it hurts". I know that's not what you mean, but that's how many here will take it.

People that do believe in the sanctity of marriage have that right just as much as you have the right not to.

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When is it ok to have an affair?

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