on turning an affair into a lasting relationship?

[torranceshipman]

we feel so strongly, yet we hesitate... do affairs ever work out? can they turn into beautiful strong relationships? what do we need to be aware of, how can we build new relationship together? we've seen each other's worst, we've seen each other deceive, so we're not blind to it - yet we love each other deeply, emotionally, physically, intellectually. is that enough? or are affairs started in marriages always doomed? does anyone have any good advice?

 

THIS statement is why A's don't work out. You two are actually having the A - it is up to you to make it work if you want it. But you hesitate, you want guarantees (which don't exist in any R) - before you hurt your partners needlessly. But you are prepared to hurt your partners if you get guaranteed good futures. I'm not even judging here but your thinking is really screwed up and I'd take some time to read back over your own post. And finally, if you love each other deeply, emotionally, physically and intellectually you wouldn't bother asking this question - surely you realise that? This statement is similar to your 'sobbing arguments' statement - drama and intensity - that's what A's are all about. You two don't sound like people that would leave their spouses to me.

 

Edited to add: it can turn into a beautiful strong R if you are both mature, emotionally stable, open people, willing to put in the investment and hard work to make the R a priority ( and yes that means taking all the flak that comes with being honest and telling your partners). If you 2 can't do that then no, you won't get a beautiful strong R, you'll get some skulking around and some promises that don't really come to anything, and maybe down the line a D day and a lot of misery!

[MizFit]

THIS statement is why A's don't work out. You two are actually having the A - it is up to you to make it work if you want it. But you hesitate, you want guarantees (which don't exist in any R) - before you hurt your partners needlessly. But you are prepared to hurt your partners if you get guaranteed good futures. I'm not even judging here but your thinking is really screwed up and I'd take some time to read back over your own post. And finally, if you love each other deeply, emotionally, physically and intellectually you wouldn't bother asking this question - surely you realise that? This statement is similar to your 'sobbing arguments' statement - drama and intensity - that's what A's are all about. You two don't sound like people that would leave their spouses to me.

 

Edited to add: it can turn into a beautiful strong R if you are both mature, emotionally stable, open people, willing to put in the investment and hard work to make the R a priority ( and yes that means taking all the flak that comes with being honest and telling your partners). If you 2 can't do that then no, you won't get a beautiful strong R, you'll get some skulking around and some promises that don't really come to anything, and maybe down the line a D day and a lot of misery!

 

I don't know as their thinking is screwed up as much as it is plain human. We hedge our bets every day of our lives...crossing the road when cars are coming, jumping out of airplanes for fun, riding bikes down mountains, eating the outdated meat in the fridge. We all want to take chances, but we do everything within our power to ensure our safety...leaving a spouse is no different to some people. It's a huge risk and if they can't be pretty darned sure it'll work out then they won't chance it.

 

Other than that slight disagreement I agree with everything you say on here...they won't leave. Also, at the end-you're right. It can work out if they work at it, but they need to work at it and make it their own...

[califnan]

THIS statement is why A's don't work out. You two are actually having the A - it is up to you to make it work if you want it. But you hesitate, you want guarantees (which don't exist in any R) - before you hurt your partners needlessly. But you are prepared to hurt your partners if you get guaranteed good futures. I'm not even judging here but your thinking is really screwed up and I'd take some time to read back over your own post. And finally, if you love each other deeply, emotionally, physically and intellectually you wouldn't bother asking this question - surely you realise that? This statement is similar to your 'sobbing arguments' statement - drama and intensity - that's what A's are all about. You two don't sound like people that would leave their spouses to me.

 

Edited to add: it can turn into a beautiful strong R if you are both mature, emotionally stable, open people, willing to put in the investment and hard work to make the R a priority ( and yes that means taking all the flak that comes with being honest and telling your partners). If you 2 can't do that then no, you won't get a beautiful strong R, you'll get some skulking around and some promises that don't really come to anything, and maybe down the line a D day and a lot of misery!

 

---------------------

 

Excepting for abuse, I don't think most marriages would end - if the AP didn't have another - outside of the marriage.

 

Now a person who is accustomed to having both partners, wishes to have a guarantee that one or the other would be the fulfillment. No guarantees.

[lkjh]

So...all of the BS who have chosen to reconcile and put their lives back together aren't happy? They're in here doing just what you said. You can't talk about good and bad decisions because what is good for you may be bad for me and vice versa.

 

You are very narrow minded on this...

 

I love how when people disagree with someone else they call them narrow minded, stupid, ignorant and so forth. Yet, by your definition you would be in the same category because you refuse to see it from the other side.

 

Its pretty simple, people who are happy with their situation don't ask others for advice on how to change their situation.

 

Also, don't redirect the scope to betrayed spouses. I was talking about a particular case which involved the cheater. BS's are put in a tough spot and no they are not happy while going through it. They are victims and victims generally are not happy with being victimized. Their lives get tossed out the window and they have no say in it.

 

 

So yes when people ask others for advice how to make their situation better than they are not happy with their current situation.

 

 

I maybe narrow minded but you try some common sense out for once

[Dexter Morgan]

i don't need to be told how bad i am.

 

i am married. i have been having an affair with a married woman for 9 months, though we have known each other for 5 years. i have been married 7 years, no kids. she has been married 10 years, with 2 kids.

 

do affairs ever work out?

 

I think this may be kind of the wrong question to ask in this forum. While this does deal with infidelity, it tends to be more of a place where people come to seek advice and how to deal with being on the s##t side of infidelity.

 

I think maybe the OW/OM section would suit you better if your concern is whether your affair partner and you will work out.

 

 

but we hesitate to leave our spouses - partly because of the pain this will cause them

 

or is it you don't want to lose your familiar, comfortable family life?

 

 

but largely because of the unknown: how do you know that you can spend months or years with someone, if you have only had a long weekend at the most at any one time?

 

so basically because you are scared that your relationship with your affair partner may not work out long term, you are going to keep on disrepecting your spouses?

 

if you know you would rather be with the OW, and she with you, and really don't want to be with your spouses, then being scared of the unknown isn't your betrayed spouses's problem....its yours.

 

you two need to man/woman up and make a decision...dump each other and selfishly keep the affair to yourselves(since I doubt you have the fortitude to come clean), or set your spouses free from each of you and take the chance.

 

 

 

we live in different cities and even though we talk every day, sometimes for hours, we just don't know what it will be like to live together - does the risk justify hurting our spouses

 

whether your spouses know or not, you already hurt them, so I don't really see this "concern" as a reason not to leave and take your chances.

 

admit it, you aren't concerned with hurting your spouses, if you were, you wouldn't have betrayed them in the first place.

 

You don't want to leave the marriage for your own selfish reasons.

 

 

is the effect divorce will have on her kids justified by us being with the ones we love?

 

BOOM! There you have it. You say you "love" each other. That statement right there pretty much demands that you get a divorce. Because you wouldn't be staying in the marriage for the right reasons.

 

 

we feel so strongly, yet we hesitate... do affairs ever work out?

 

leave your wife and find out.

 

 

can they turn into beautiful strong relationships? what do we need to be aware of, how can we build new relationship together? we've seen each other's worst, we've seen each other deceive, so we're not blind to it - yet we love each other deeply, emotionally, physically, intellectually. is that enough? or are affairs started in marriages always doomed? does anyone have any good advice?

 

again, this section of the site is more about people dealing with the pain infidelity causes. If you want to keep your affair going and want the OW, then the OW/OM section would suit you better. They'll tell you what you want to hear, I guarantee it.

 

 

please, i don't need to know what a bad person i am for what i'm doing - i tell myself that every hour every day, every time i look at my wife. i know that my marriage has problems, that my wife is a good good person, and that perhaps i should be putting all my energy into fixing it. but when you've met someone who you think is the love of your life, and when you've found she feels the same too, does being married already mean that it's doomed from the start anyway?

 

you think this OW is the love of your life because it is new and exciting. Some people can handle long term commitment and sex with the same person for the rest of their lives......some can't.

[Dexter Morgan]

So...all of the BS who have chosen to reconcile and put their lives back together aren't happy?

 

i think they can regain some level of happiness....or maybe just plain old being content.

 

But if anyone is going to try to tell me that a BS doesn't think about what their cheating spouse did to them from time to time, even years down the road, and thinks everything is well and good, I have to call bs on that one.

 

the BS WILL think about the betrayal from time to time and to me that would prevent 100% complete happiness.

 

So I would say a BS can be very content, but never overjoyed completely while still being with the one that effed them over so badly.

[Dexter Morgan]

You need to talk to a poster who uses the name OWoman. She and her husband were affair partners and are now happily married.

 

yes, and she also has stated that she doesn't believe in fidelity either.

[wheelwright]

Statistics are beware signs. But they are never you.

 

Don't you know in your heart if you will love your AP forever? Didn't you know when you married that you wouldn't love your SO forever?

 

Don't you already know the answers?

 

It's about love.

 

You don't love your BS. You are just wondering if you can deal with the fallout of following your heart, and whether that is right.

 

Weigh up truth, happiness, right. Where is your life path? Remember who you are, not who you are expected to be.

 

And you need to work out what you love and value. If you knew that, there would be no questions.

 

For some people, love is imporant. For others it can be left in the wings. Who are you?

 

I believe this is an important decision for you, that will colour the rest of your life. So be you.

[char]

thanks for the replies. i particularly appreciate those that have demonstrated a deep awareness of the complexity of all human decisions.

 

the fact is that both our spouses know about what we have done – it's not something we were able to hide for long after it became serious. we're not in the deception phase, we're in that moment of saying 'omg, what do we do now....". i guess we are in that moment between everyone being aware and the ultimate decision to file legal papers.

 

all of you who think it is all so easy, and cut-and-dry that you can decide to file for divorce straight after discovering your feelings for someone else just have never found yourselves in the situation. lucky you. really. you've clearly never had to face complex dilemmas and things are nice and black&white. i envy your clarity. but there are a lot of human beings out there who strive for that clarity and it would be nice if you weren't quite so self-righteous about them.

 

i really just wanted to know that there were some happily-ever-after stories out there; everywhere else i'd read had nothing good to say whatsoever. it seems there are. the chances are not nil. that makes the decision just that little bit easier to make.

[fooled once]

There are NO guarantees in life except death and taxes.

 

Sounds like you are too scared to make the jump from wife to mistress.

 

So I guess you don't really love the mistress as much as you claim because if you did, it would be a none issue.

 

But you are right, most affairs are at MOST weekend relationships - snippets of time here and there, the thrill of secrecy, the power trip of it all.

 

since you have to sneak around and not really see each other as a lot of dating people do, you won't KNOW until you just do it.

 

Your wife deserves so much better. Your wife deserves a faithful spouse. Your wife deserves to not worry about getting an STD.

 

You aren't a horrible person, but your actions are henious. How do you justify what you are doing to your wife? Lack of self control? Lack of morals? Lack of values?

 

all of you who think it is all so easy, and cut-and-dry that you can decide to file for divorce straight after discovering your feelings for someone else just have never found yourselves in the situation. lucky you. really. you've clearly never had to face complex dilemmas and things are nice and black&white. i envy your clarity. but there are a lot of human beings out there who strive for that clarity and it would be nice if you weren't quite so self-righteous about them.

 

Well, it was easy and cut and dry for me to file for divorce and I had no one else who I had feelings for. I did it for several reasons. I was HONEST and upfront with my ex about what I was doing. I wasn't sneaking around. I wasn't searching for a replacement for him. So LUCKY ME!!!

 

I have had to face way more complex dilemmas than a cheating spouse. It was BLACK AND WHITE. The marriage was over.

 

The whole self-righteous comment was uncalled for. We as humans make mistakes, but many of us don't continue with our mistake knowing full well we are hurting others. That is intentional and cruel. You are choosing, IMHO, to hide behind the "woe is me" and not owning what you have done. You want to hide behind it being so complex. That is ridiculous.

 

If you felt the need to cheat, why can't you at least set your wife free? Such a double standard.

[bentnotbroken]

thanks for the replies. i particularly appreciate those that have demonstrated a deep awareness of the complexity of all human decisions.

 

the fact is that both our spouses know about what we have done – it's not something we were able to hide for long after it became serious. we're not in the deception phase, we're in that moment of saying 'omg, what do we do now....". i guess we are in that moment between everyone being aware and the ultimate decision to file legal papers.

 

all of you who think it is all so easy, and cut-and-dry that you can decide to file for divorce straight after discovering your feelings for someone else just have never found yourselves in the situation. lucky you. really. you've clearly never had to face complex dilemmas and things are nice and black&white. i envy your clarity. but there are a lot of human beings out there who strive for that clarity and it would be nice if you weren't quite so self-righteous about them.

 

i really just wanted to know that there were some happily-ever-after stories out there; everywhere else i'd read had nothing good to say whatsoever. it seems there are. the chances are not nil. that makes the decision just that little bit easier to make.

 

 

Clarity isn't something that drops in your lap. It is a way of living your life. Not adding things that complicate or destroy. Do you really think it was easy to walk away from a 20+ year marriage? Kids, home, family, births, illnesses, deaths? :mad:It wasn't. But it was necessary to stop the bleeding to save the injured. Making a decision to ease the pain and expecting other adults to be willing to do the same isn't self righteous it is giving them the benefit of the doubt.

[Cinnamon2000]

thanks for the replies. i particularly appreciate those that have demonstrated a deep awareness of the complexity of all human decisions.

 

the fact is that both our spouses know about what we have done – it's not something we were able to hide for long after it became serious. we're not in the deception phase, we're in that moment of saying 'omg, what do we do now....". i guess we are in that moment between everyone being aware and the ultimate decision to file legal papers.

 

all of you who think it is all so easy, and cut-and-dry that you can decide to file for divorce straight after discovering your feelings for someone else just have never found yourselves in the situation. lucky you. really. you've clearly never had to face complex dilemmas and things are nice and black&white. i envy your clarity. but there are a lot of human beings out there who strive for that clarity and it would be nice if you weren't quite so self-righteous about them.

 

i really just wanted to know that there were some happily-ever-after stories out there; everywhere else i'd read had nothing good to say whatsoever. it seems there are. the chances are not nil. that makes the decision just that little bit easier to make.

 

You're going to make a life changing decision betting that you're one of the 1% that makes it?

[jwi71]

thanks for the replies. i particularly appreciate those that have demonstrated a deep awareness of the complexity of all human decisions.

 

the fact is that both our spouses know about what we have done – it's not something we were able to hide for long after it became serious. we're not in the deception phase, we're in that moment of saying 'omg, what do we do now....". i guess we are in that moment between everyone being aware and the ultimate decision to file legal papers.

 

all of you who think it is all so easy, and cut-and-dry that you can decide to file for divorce straight after discovering your feelings for someone else just have never found yourselves in the situation. lucky you. really. you've clearly never had to face complex dilemmas and things are nice and black&white. i envy your clarity. but there are a lot of human beings out there who strive for that clarity and it would be nice if you weren't quite so self-righteous about them.

 

i really just wanted to know that there were some happily-ever-after stories out there; everywhere else i'd read had nothing good to say whatsoever. it seems there are. the chances are not nil. that makes the decision just that little bit easier to make.

 

It IS black and white.

 

You divorce or you do not.

You love her enough to leave or you do not.

You take a risk or you do not.

 

But, as I suspected from your first sentence, you aren't looking for advice.

 

You want a cheerleader.

 

Rah-Rah....go you.

 

Was that better?

[White Flower]

Thats one person whose story will change

Predict much?

[MizFit]

I love how when people disagree with someone else they call them narrow minded, stupid, ignorant and so forth. Yet, by your definition you would be in the same category because you refuse to see it from the other side.

 

Its pretty simple, people who are happy with their situation don't ask others for advice on how to change their situation.

 

Also, don't redirect the scope to betrayed spouses. I was talking about a particular case which involved the cheater. BS's are put in a tough spot and no they are not happy while going through it. They are victims and victims generally are not happy with being victimized. Their lives get tossed out the window and they have no say in it.

 

 

So yes when people ask others for advice how to make their situation better than they are not happy with their current situation.

 

 

I maybe narrow minded but you try some common sense out for once

 

This is what you said originally....

 

Don't mean to disappoint you but people who go on internet boards and try an justify their lifestyle are not usually happy. If she was so happy she wouldn't have spent years on LS trying to convince everyone that her lifestyle is all good.

 

Happy people don't preach about why they their decisions were good ones

I was making the point that you are saying, categorically, that people who who are happy don't go around preaching about their decisions being good ones. You were saying that about OW...I am saying that you can not target one group because you disagree with them. So you're saying that OW aren't allowed to find happiness in their situation and talk about it, but BS are? Sorry...it is narrow minded. I neither said you were stupid nor ignorant-please don't put words in my mouth.

 

From the direct quote, what I have underlined...people who are happy don't go around asking for help on how to change the situation. I haven't seen OWoman asking for any advice...when FA first came in she may have been bordering that...I haven't seen Jennie Jennie asking for advice...they come in and they discuss. They give perspectives that aren't always popular, but they are theirs and they do help many people.

 

As far as my situation...yes...OW. However, 20 some years ago I was a BS. I have huge amounts of sympathy for BS and I respect those that are in here trying to help others out just as I respect OWoman and FA and Jennie Jennie trying to help OW out.

 

So yes...in the context that your original post was in I still think you were narrow minded. Because you don't like the way some people are living your lives you're trying to minimize their happiness. You also made the assumption that because I'm an OW I have no idea what a BS goes through-wrong again. I don't profess to know what it's like to try and reconcile a marriage because I own the Dexter Morgan philosophy to that...unacceptable.

[Fallen Angel]

Don't mean to disappoint you but people who go on internet boards and try an justify their lifestyle are not usually happy. If she was so happy she wouldn't have spent years on LS trying to convince everyone that her lifestyle is all good.

 

Happy people don't preach about why they their decisions were good ones

 

Really? Just curious then why all these other people are here "justifying" why their decisions were good ones, and that is just fine with you? (for example a woman who has chosen to divorce after finding out her husband had an affair and is here telling others how much happier she is now *we have tons of those here at LS*, for example a woman who has reconciled her marriage after finding out that her husband had an affair and is here telling others how much happier she is now and how wonderful her marriage is for it *we have tons of them here on LS*, for example a fWS who comes here and talks about how they saw the error of their ways, have owned up to what they did and reconciled their marriage and how much happier they are now *we have tons of those here at LS*) Why is it only the OW or fOW that is not allowed the freedom in your eyes to post about being happy with the decisions they make? is that not a huge double standard?

 

And for the record, when I first came to LS I was unhappy and seeking advice. Now, I have come to a place of happiness and I offer my opinions and my advice, I do not seek advice. I do post about my happiness. Just because you do not share my views does not make my views any less valid than yours. My happiness is very real, as is OWoman's and Jennie's. Just because it upsets your apple cart to admit that sometimes affair relationships (and/or the resultant marriages between former affair partners) can be good, happy and helathy, makes it no less true.

[GaLwAyGiRL]

Its nice to see everyone giving this newcomer sound advice and sticking to what he was originally asking.NOT Threadjack much? Maybe we need a "bicker Forum":(

[MizFit]

Its nice to see everyone giving this newcomer sound advice and sticking to what he was originally asking.NOT Threadjack much? Maybe we need a "bicker Forum":(

 

Well...unfortunately a forum is basically a conversation and conversations go off on tangents. When someone says something I think is incredibly wrong and skews what is being said then I will respond to it.

[MizFit]

Really? Just curious then why all these other people are here "justifying" why their decisions were good ones, and that is just fine with you? (for example a woman who has chosen to divorce after finding out her husband had an affair and is here telling others how much happier she is now *we have tons of those here at LS*, for example a woman who has reconciled her marriage after finding out that her husband had an affair and is here telling others how much happier she is now and how wonderful her marriage is for it *we have tons of them here on LS*, for example a fWS who comes here and talks about how they saw the error of their ways, have owned up to what they did and reconciled their marriage and how much happier they are now *we have tons of those here at LS*) Why is it only the OW or fOW that is not allowed the freedom in your eyes to post about being happy with the decisions they make? is that not a huge double standard?

 

And for the record, when I first came to LS I was unhappy and seeking advice. Now, I have come to a place of happiness and I offer my opinions and my advice, I do not seek advice. I do post about my happiness. Just because you do not share my views does not make my views any less valid than yours. My happiness is very real, as is OWoman's and Jennie's. Just because it upsets your apple cart to admit that sometimes affair relationships (and/or the resultant marriages between former affair partners) can be good, happy and helathy, makes it no less true.

 

Thanks FA...just what I was trying to get across.

[skywriter]

Char,

 

My closest friend in the world and her H have been married 15 yrs. Their relationship began while they were both married to other people.

 

They didn't have children with their now ex- spouses, however since marrying they have had two children.

 

From what I can tell, they are happily married. I'm sure like any other relationship, it has it's good and bad times. I would say to you, that it'll be whatever you are willing to put into it.

[MadMission]

char,

 

Of course you can turn your A into a lasting relationship. IF it's what you and OW want, then make it happen. It CAN be done.

 

I think at this point with OW being the love of your life and all that, it would be the right thing to do.

 

Don't stay with your W by default. THAT is actually more hurtful than your A. At this point, if you decided to backpedal and stay in the M, it would be ongoing lies, deception, manipulation, and fake acting on your part...because you don't love or want your W, yet you would have to pretend you did. And, the whole time you are forcing yourself to provide assurance to your W, because she IS going to need A LOT of assurance from you, it will be ingenuous because your heart belongs to OW. Don't do that to your W.

 

You've already ended the M by engaging in a full blown A with OW. Your vows have been already severed. So, why don't you just process the legal paperwork to correctly reflect the truth and reality of the situation. Remaining ambivelant and dragging your feet only prolongs the pain for all involved.

[OWoman]

Here is the stats:

 

3% of affairs turning into marriage last more than 5 years. And those that lasts more than 5 years, who knows if they live with guilt for the rest of that marriage or whether they are happy at all. Maybe they're just stuck.

 

Virtually all those adulterers entering into this affairage thought they were soulmates. Go figure.

 

There are countless threads on these boards debunking those "stats".

 

The truth is, there are NO RELIABLE statistics on how many As lead to D, and how many of those As post-D become f/t Rs, and how many of those Rs become Ms or LTRs, or how long they last on average. That would require a longitudinal (and very large scale) study - which is beyond the scope of most research projects. So they tend to do things backward - take a random sample, and ask how many of those people are M; and ask how many of those M people have been M for more than, say, 5 years; and then ask how many of those longer-than-5 years Ms started out as As. As you can see, that would give you a very different picture - if at that point you got 3% as your answer, you would not be able to say "3% of As go on to become Ms that last more than 5 years". That's not what the study found. What you'd be able to say is that "3% of [the sample] contained Ms of longer than 5 years that once started off as As (and who were prepared to admit that)". Stating that 3% of LTMs started off as As is very different to stating that 3% of As become LTMs. (Quite aside from speculating on what % of fAPs would be happy to admit that their M started out as an A, 5 years or more later...)

 

One of the most important basic numeracy skills is the ability to interpret statistics CORRECTLY.

[OWoman]

do affairs ever work out? is there anyone that can give us advice? the whole internet just tells me i'm a horrible person. i need advice. i want to know stories where an affair has actually turned into a good relationship. i need advice on how to build a relationship together after we leave our spouses.

 

char - I know many As IRL that have turned into successful LTRs or Ms. My father's was one. My own M, while fairly recent (we've been living together f/t about two years, M for one and a bit) is good and strong at this stage. It's possible. But possible is not inevitable. Just because it works for one couple, doesn't mean it will necessarily work for every couple. But it CAN work, and has worked, for some.

 

we communicate with each other better than we ever have with anybody else. i know so much more about her, and she knows so much more about me, than my wife and i did when we got married, maybe even more than we know about each other now.

 

we talk to each other so much: we know each other's faults, and cracks and bad sides; we've had disagreements, even sobbing arguments, much due to the pressure; so it's not all roses - we know how difficult it is. yet we've also seen the loveliness in each other, the strengths and joys. we've shared so much, albeit in secret and absolutely love each other's company. our interests coincide and complement; the respect we have for each other's work is unlike anything i've known before.

 

but we hesitate to leave our spouses - partly because of the pain this will cause them, but largely because of the unknown: how do you know that you can spend months or years with someone, if you have only had a long weekend at the most at any one time? we live in different cities and even though we talk every day, sometimes for hours, we just don't know what it will be like to live together - does the risk justify hurting our spouses as much as we will or compromising marriages that could perhaps one day somehow be fixed? would it justify it, if our relationship collapsed after 1 month together? or 1 year? is the effect divorce will have on her kids justified by us being with the ones we love?

 

we feel so strongly, yet we hesitate... do affairs ever work out? can they turn into beautiful strong relationships? what do we need to be aware of, how can we build new relationship together? we've seen each other's worst, we've seen each other deceive, so we're not blind to it - yet we love each other deeply, emotionally, physically, intellectually. is that enough? or are affairs started in marriages always doomed? does anyone have any good advice?

 

Love is never enough. But coupled with hard work, commitment, an intelligent and sensitive approach, patience, energy, enthusiasm, passion, strong values, enough of the important things in common but enough difference to generate interest... it can be.

 

My H and I also had a LDR - we lived in different countries, not just different cities - and so I can appreciate your concern about it working out when it's full-time. We had long periods of being apart - using phones, IRC, email and other means to keep in touch - punctuated with visits (him to me, or me to him, or both elsewhere) where we lived together 24X7, often for weeks or even months together. You've only managed weekends - but I guess what you do and how you use that time is what matters.

 

During our times apart, we used the distance to really get to know each other. Deep probing of each other's hopes and fears, dreams and disappointments, plans and fantasies, bottom line non-negotiables and spurious trivia. Like those 70s "check your mate" shows, we probed the silly and the significant - from who you'd like to have seated around your dinner table right now, to the most important thing you would tell your (same sex) child about what life is like as an adult; from your favourite soft-drink to your deepest conviction. What you like best and least about yourselves, and your partners. Your most disappointing present, ever, and why. Your greatest achievement.... A lot of it sounds quite silly, but we got to know each other really really well. In amongst the trivia of our days that we shared, we developed a strong sense of who the other person was, what they really wanted, what mattered most to them and what they'd be willing to forego. We reached a place where we knew that being together was no longer an option - it was a decision. It just required action on our parts to bring it into being.

 

The concerns I have from your post are:

* you worry about whether you are risking hurting your spouses so much (for this, if it doesn't work out). You are going to hurt your spouses, if you haven't already. They may never know why, but right now they face three options (you leaving them; you carrying on the A, while staying M; you ending the A) all of which hold different kinds of hurt for them, but hurt nevertheless. Not hurting your spouses is no longer an issue. Accept that you will, or have, hurt them. Make your peace with that. It's not an option, it's an inevitability.

* the "end justifies the means" rationale behind that - that somehow, if you land up happily together with your AP, the hurt to your spouses won't matter that much. That's nonsense - gain in one area won't offset loss in another. Whether your A works out or not, you will still feel the pain of having hurt your spouses. Pretending that a happy outcome for the A will diminish that is not only naive, it's also rather self-centred - as if their pain is somehow lessened because of your happiness. It doesn't work like that. Their pain is their pain, and you WILL feel it, whether or not you get your happy ending.

* you fear you may be walking away from Ms that could have been fixed, for an unknowable future. Any future is unknowable. Every future holds risk. Staying in your M holds risk. Trying to fix it holds risk. Leaving it holds risk. Nothing is certain. But, if it worries you that your Ms are not yet terminal, that you may be walking away when there is still so much to hope for there - then you aren't yet done with your M/s. You should not leave your M (assuming your spouse still wants the M) until you are certain that you want to do so. Not because there's a better option out there, but because your M no longer offers you the space to be the best you that you can - and want to - be. If your M is stunting you, compromising you in ways that are not sustainable, it's time to go. But if you're thinking, there's still a chance that this might be fixed... then that doubt will always be there, and may undermine the new R you try to build together with your AP. If even one of you is in doubt about leaving your M, you owe it to yourselves, your spouses and each other to probe that. Try MC, try mediation, try sitting down with your spouses and talking about the future - whatever it takes to know if your M has a future or not. If you're uncertain about leaving, you need to explore that to gain clarity.

* the implied sense of leaving one R for a better one. Trading up. If you are not in the position where you would not be considering leaving your M were your AP not on the scene, and if you're of the opinion that your M could be tweaked to become better / acceptable, but... the A is better, the AP better than your spouse, etc... you're setting yourself up for something unsustainable. If you're leaving a grade B person for a grade A person (or a grade B M for a grade A R), you're laying yourself open to the danger of facing the arrival of a grade A+ person along the line. What will you do then? Upgrade again? Or... what if by that stage you've slumped into being a grade C person, and your fAP fancies the new grade A on the block (still being grade A herself)? Would you be happy with that turn of events? If you are viewing your A comparatively, seeing it as BETTER than your Ms, you set yourself up for a continued comparison. You need to judge your R on its own merits; judge your M on its own merits; judge your life on its own merits. You can't know all the facts, present or future. You can never make a comparative decision fully informed. There will always be unknowns, always be risks. You need to look at each, in its own right, and say, is this the right R for me?

 

Right now, I don't think you're anywhere near ready to make decisions or plans for the future. I think you both need some kind of counselling - IC, perhaps; but certainly RC. Perhaps in your Ms, if you feel they may be salvageable, so that you can either rebuild those or walk away in clear conscience; but certainly in your A, if you are thinking of taking it further. You have so many questions, so much uncertainty - the directed, non-partisan probing of a professional could help you decide whether you are long-term compatible, as well as helping you prepare for the difficulties of making the change, blending families etc if you do decide to pursue that.

 

Good luck!

[howcouldInotknow]

It can work and do not let anyone else tell you otherwise. My dad and his OW are still together and happy. He cheated on my mom with her and they are together all these years later, still happy and in love.

[ConflictedGuy27]

Please... Let's examine cheating behavior for what it is - a self centered character flaw.

 

People who have cheated on their spouses have all demonstrated atleast one common denominator - they're conscience allows them to cheat under certain circumstance, even when it means devistating other people's lives.

 

This is a FACT. I frankly don't care about the OM/OW or WS defenses, because there is no defending this fact.

 

Now the OP's question is one synonomous with "is it possible to have a good relationship with a recovering alcoholic?" Of course the answer is yes... Some recovering alcoholics are more serious than others, therefore there can be no absolute yes or no.

 

The issue with OP's question and my hypothedical are the same - What were really talking about here is recitivism.

 

Not one person in here would volunteer to take unecessary risk...

For example, if you needed a ride home from two strangers and you had to select from either a recovering alcholic, with a DUI on his record, or a driver that's never had a drink in his life. Clearly, all of us would choose Mr. Sober...

 

Why? Because we know that past behavior is a phenominal indicator for future behavior. We call this recitivism, and guess what... The recitivism rate is very high in individuals that have had extra marital affairs.

 

So, can a healthy, happy LTR be developed in a R where one or both partners have a history of infidelity? Of course; however the liklihood of that outcome is dwarfed by the impact that the recitivism rate has on that long term success.

 

Bottom line, dating a known cheater is as unnecessary a risk as dating a recovering alcoholic. Probably worse, since many alcoholics in recovery have actually sought professional help. Many infidels don't even do that.

Edited May 3, 2010 by ConflictedGuy27