heartsick... again...

[Fallen Angel]

------------------

 

Not desperate and foolish FA. Women who - for one reason or another, attach themselves to MM, that is one thing .. But those who continue their relationship with the MM, are as you describe: desperate and foolish.

 

I consider myself very knowledgeable on both sides of the issue, and will continue to post as such ..

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Of yourself and of me. But your posts belie your convictions of "goodness", as your posts are full of bitterness, judgement and an attempt to be purposefully hurtful to people who are already in pain.

 

You do Christianity a disservice to behave in such a manner. Your attitude shows nothing of the forgiveness that Jesus taught.

[califnan]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Of yourself and of me. But your posts belie your convictions of "goodness", as your posts are full of bitterness, judgement and an attempt to be purposefully hurtful to people who are already in pain.

 

---------------------

 

Not bitter, Not Judgemental ... Read my post before the last one FA ... I can speak to both sides of the issue, and I will ..

[Tashcw]

FA - don't want to get involved in quite a bit t/j, but I must jump in and say that Califnan has PM'd me and has been very, very understanding and supportive - and I was (and openly admitted) an OW.

 

FA - you've been amazing too!

 

It's my belief that we are all here with one aim - to HELP those going through this situation - whether right or wrong, and by their own choosing or not. Different people help in different ways - whilst I am far from religious at all, I've appreciated Califnan's attempt to show her support as she knows how - through her God, likewise I've appreciated every single other view on here - from telling me he's a good for nothing so and so, to people opening my eyes to the fact that you CAN be an OW in a loving, fulfilling relationship (for some!).

 

There seems to be a lot of anger and sniping going on around a lot of posts recently, and I think we all need to take a step back, re-read the OP and continue to offer them our support as we all know how, and in our own way.

 

Just my opinion though!

[califnan]

FA - don't want to get involved in quite a bit t/j, but I must jump in and say that Califnan has PM'd me and has been very, very understanding and supportive - and I was (and openly admitted) an OW.

 

FA - you've been amazing too!

 

It's my belief that we are all here with one aim - to HELP those going through this situation - whether right or wrong, and by their own choosing or not. Different people help in different ways - whilst I am far from religious at all, I've appreciated Califnan's attempt to show her support as she knows how - through her God, likewise I've appreciated every single other view on here - from telling me he's a good for nothing so and so, to people opening my eyes to the fact that you CAN be an OW in a loving, fulfilling relationship (for some!).

 

There seems to be a lot of anger and sniping going on around a lot of posts recently, and I think we all need to take a step back, re-read the OP and continue to offer them our support as we all know how, and in our own way.

 

Just my opinion though!

 

-----------------------

 

You are Sweet as Always Tashcw ... Don't worry about me and FA and OW, et al .. I am as upset with myself - as anyone, with the MM trap... (plus I have some unrelated things going on, right now ) We will All continue to help as we can ..

 

Take Care Tashcw ..

[I Miss the Kiss]

It seems MM has created so many confusions that their marriage is impossible to be recovered now . It has never worked & will never work this way , his wife should just accept the fact that her husband can't get over his feelings & she should herself divorce him .

That will be best for her too. I can't say weather U & mm will eventually be together or not but it seems It is just a matter of months that his marriage is over .

 

I think she had come to that realization just in the last few weeks, actually. Then back he comes crawling, and believe me when I tell you that I understand why she can't turn her back.

 

However, I truly believe that deep in her soul she knows he will never change. This is why she sought an attorney and seemed to be on a path of divorcing him. She had even told him numerous times in recent days that she is finally "done" with him, tired of living in limbo.

 

So as I see it, she is now "taking him back "(with me having no real idea what is actually happening there, other than I know if she DIDN'T take him back, he would be calling me... or he will be at some point). But I wonder (I really do) how she can live with the man she dubbed as a "liar, cheater, and someone I don't aspire for my children to be like". Now knowing even more about his very recent mindset (coming to see me just a week ago and the many things he planned for our life), I can't even imagine how they can mend this rift.

 

I say that knowing full well that I am still in love with him. I have taken him back every time she has, so I guess I'm no better and no stronger

 

I still just don't think he will come back this time... maybe he will finally lie in the bed he has made of his life, and me in mine.

[pureinheart]

----------------------------

 

"Sexual Detours" by Dr. Holly Hein Ph.D. :

80% of those who divorce during an affair - regret the decision

75% who marry partners during an affair, eventually divorce.

Divorce rate & ratio of infidelity are much higher among marriage partners in an affair.

 

My exhusband told many of his family, years before he died - of his regret.

My aunt and uncle have appeared to be happily married for 45 years - she disclosed to me in recent years, regret of leaving her first husband, and that although she loved her second husband - she was sorry..

 

OW / FA: If someone caps on a MM or MW - because it runs in their family to do so, that is a family rendition that could stand to be broken, for everyone's sake.

 

Maybe we should start a new thread for understanding...you have brought up an excellent point...not to discount or disdain new R's....although I have to wonder and would like this settled in my mind.

[pureinheart]

I think she had come to that realization just in the last few weeks, actually. Then back he comes crawling, and believe me when I tell you that I understand why she can't turn her back.

 

However, I truly believe that deep in her soul she knows he will never change. This is why she sought an attorney and seemed to be on a path of divorcing him. She had even told him numerous times in recent days that she is finally "done" with him, tired of living in limbo.

 

So as I see it, she is now "taking him back "(with me having no real idea what is actually happening there, other than I know if she DIDN'T take him back, he would be calling me... or he will be at some point). But I wonder (I really do) how she can live with the man she dubbed as a "liar, cheater, and someone I don't aspire for my children to be like". Now knowing even more about his very recent mindset (coming to see me just a week ago and the many things he planned for our life), I can't even imagine how they can mend this rift.

 

I say that knowing full well that I am still in love with him. I have taken him back every time she has, so I guess I'm no better and no stronger

 

I still just don't think he will come back this time... maybe he will finally lie in the bed he has made of his life, and me in mine.

 

IMTK...this sort of reminds me of when me and my 2nd exH separated...I was seeing someone else and so was he...well the lady he was seeing called me as me and my exH were thinking about getting back together, but I was undecided...she was frustrated and said, "will you please make up your mind!". She was not uncool, just matter of fact, and she was right.

 

I realised that it was just more than my exH and me involved here so I made a decision....just wanted to throw that in there.

[I Miss the Kiss]

IMTK...this sort of reminds me of when me and my 2nd exH separated...I was seeing someone else and so was he...well the lady he was seeing called me as me and my exH were thinking about getting back together, but I was undecided...she was frustrated and said, "will you please make up your mind!". She was not uncool, just matter of fact, and she was right.

 

I realised that it was just more than my exH and me involved here so I made a decision....just wanted to throw that in there.

 

That's really very interesting, PIH. Though I didn't speak directly with the BS, I did leave her quite a detailed voicemail. How I feel about having done that is another issue; however, my own assessment is that she may be holding on tighter because I am very much a part of her H's life in more ways than she would like, I'm sure. Now that he has had several D-days with her, I'm more and more convinced that she might never give him up. At the same time, she knows and admitted directly to me that she thinks he is a liar and a cheater. ????

 

All of the above being said, I have a feeling if there is one more D-day, she's really done. I don't expect to hear from him again, though. I can't imagine he would be that stupid, knowing she has seen an attorney and their accountant.

[whichwayisup]

have a feeling if there is one more D-day, she's really done.

 

And she may be saying the same thing about you.. One more time her H breaks it off with you, you won't take him back if he comes looking.

 

You may love him, as does she, but she is the one who is married to him and has kids with him.

 

You can't imagine him being that stupid? Come on..He IS. Look at his past behaviour. People like him don't change, let alone that quickly. After everything that's been said and done, do you really believe he is never going to contact you again? Do you believe that he if shows up on your doorstep, you won't answer?

 

Once you decide, then you're in control, reguardless of whatever else happens.

 

Good luck Kiss.. I hope you are able to let go, do counselling and find 'you' again.

[I Miss the Kiss]

And she may be saying the same thing about you.. One more time her H breaks it off with you, you won't take him back if he comes looking.

 

You may love him, as does she, but she is the one who is married to him and has kids with him.

 

You can't imagine him being that stupid? Come on..He IS. Look at his past behaviour. People like him don't change, let alone that quickly. After everything that's been said and done, do you really believe he is never going to contact you again? Do you believe that he if shows up on your doorstep, you won't answer?

 

Once you decide, then you're in control, reguardless of whatever else happens.

 

Good luck Kiss.. I hope you are able to let go, do counselling and find 'you' again.

 

I try to be bluntly honest here on LS; no reason not to. And YES, I would absolutely answer if he came knocking right now, but I am trying my best to change that mindset. I truly am. Believe it or not, I AM doing better in that regard. I'm not crying, I'm able to function and work, unlike the last time. I am a lot more at peace with myself now, but my work isn't done yet. I have a long way to go before I can really come back here to LS and say without a shadow of a doubt that I would turn him away.

 

I want to, more than you know.

[whichwayisup]

Once your heart catches up to your head, I have confidence that you'll be fine. That you WILL find the strength to not ever open that door, or answer the phone. Eventually you will see how unhealthy he is for you. How much you've let this guy ruin your life, take "you" away from yourself.

 

I am glad you're honest with your answers. Lying to oneself is just as bad as not wanting to face the truth.

 

Time is on your side KISS. Remember that!

[califnan]

Maybe we should start a new thread for understanding...you have brought up an excellent point...not to discount or disdain new R's....although I have to wonder and would like this settled in my mind.

 

---------------------

 

Yes, it is a good topic Pure..

 

I can try to answer from my standpoint.. Had a few opportunitys to remarry - I was not attracted to, or in love with them .. Then many years later I fell in love with one who was not available.. I thank God, that I was able to kick the hurtful attraction.. And I am more greatful now than ever, that I didn't marry the wrong man, just for the sake of marrying..

 

It is not anyone on LS ... but I have noticed the trend for women to marry - to retire, to gain real estate and assets .. Disdainful - and it is wonderful to not be a part of that either ..

[Pink_orchid]

IMTK, sorry for your pain. If it's any consolation, you CAN get over this, I know because I went through the same hell with a former partner who I couldn't stop getting back with, now I haven't seen him for five and a half years, never would wish to, never think about him or anything. (This is not the guy I have been writing about on here that I am currently/recently involved with). This guy K was my proper boyfriend for two years about 15 years ago. We were madly in love, we were properly together, I spent most of my time with him and our two children (from previous relationships). He asked me to me to marry him, but then got cold feet and dumped me. I was heartbroken but he came back a few weeks later very sorry and all was well again, then he dumped me again. A year later I took up with him again after continued attempts his part to get me back again (or so I thought). This time he purely took me out for an evening (which was great) and slept with me and dropped me again. He even refused all my attempts to contact him (I was mad of course). I tried to move on but after a while he AGAIN started to pursue me, and YES I fell for it again, because he seemed so sorry, I would always be the love of his life he said. He was seeing another woman when he came back the last time. I said to him well if you're really serious, you have to end this other relationship and we'll give things one more try. He then told me he didn't know what he wanted! I couldn't believe it, I was so hurt, and so annoyed with myself like you are now, how could I fall for it again, well he was so charming and sorry and convincing. Well the ending was unbelievable, I went up to his house one night (unexpectedly) to have it out with him. This woman was there and he opened the door and told me to go away and he didn't want anything to do with me! He slammed the door in my face. I was very very angry and upset and banged on the door calling him every name in the world. He called the cops on me would you believe and when they came he told them I was an ex and I wouldn't leave him alone! It was all complete bullsh*t of course. They were very nice to me and when I explained the truth they were very sympathetic and said he didn't sound like a very nice guy. It was hard to think that this K was the guy who just weeks before said I would always be the love of his life, regretted everything he'd done to hurt me, but I that just didn't know it! Anyway my point is, after the incredible hurt and anger had subsided (and it took me a couple of years) I am now completely over him and I would not go there again if he paid me a million dollars. I still have a couple of old photos of us together when we were really in love but that's only because they're nice photos of me, no sentimentality, I wouldn't care if I lost them, and I'm over it, what a prat though.

In your case he'll probably come back again too, I hope that you're strong enough to resist. Only take him back if he offers (and books) your wedding. You might find that you don't want him anymore after this last episode. Stay strong and keep busy, it's easier said than done, but hopefully your love for him will turn to anger and you'll tell him where to get off when he somehow has the nerve to come back again, which he probably will.

[jennie-jennie]

----------------------------

 

"Sexual Detours" by Dr. Holly Hein Ph.D. :

80% of those who divorce during an affair - regret the decision

75% who marry partners during an affair, eventually divorce.

Divorce rate & ratio of infidelity are much higher among marriage partners in an affair.

 

"Affairs usually end because they don't represent well-thought-out choices at the right time and place in our lives. Statistics show that 80 percent of those who divorce during an affair regret the decision, and over 75 percent who marry partners in an affair eventually divorce. The divorce rate and the ratio of infidelity are much higher among marriages to partners in an affair."

 

This is a direct quote from Dr. Hein's book. I am surprised to not find any references at all as to from where these statistics are taken. I don't have the book in front of me however, I was only checking it out on Amazon, so if you know the source of Dr. Hein's statistics, califnan, I would appreciate the information.

 

I was even more surprised, well baffled really, to find that Dr. Hein has reviewed her own book on Amazon and given it the highest rating available: five stars. It seems very unprofessional to me to review and rate your own book.

[fooled once]

I'm just going to ramble here... If I were to be 100% honest, I can say that I am not at the enough-is-enough phase. I wish like h*ll I was. I know this because a riend told me on Friday when I got the text that I should IMMEDIATELY go change my own cell # in case he ever tries to text or call again. My response was that MM changed his number the last time he did this to me and he chanaged it again this time, so SURELY he won't be contacting me again. SURELY he means it this time and is truly going to work on his M like he keeps telling me every time this happens. I keep thinking there is NO WAY he will come calling again.

 

IMtK - what is going to make you hit your bottom? What exactly will it take?

 

So the fact that I won't make a simple call to change my number tells me I am not there yet... I'm not ready to cut all ties. I want it to be HIM who doesn't contact, but I want to know if he does try. I can't stand not knowing if he truly misses me or not, as sick as that is. And I do know how sick that is...

 

In a nutshell, I am crazy in love with this man beyond my comprehension, and I believe in my heart of hearts that he feels the same. We never argue, we are never rude or disrespectful, we laugh, we step out of the box both sexually and just in daily life. We understand each other, we are patient with each other, and we still feel weak at the sound of each other's voice after a year.

 

You are kidding right? Never rude or disrespectful? Come on, you really don't believe that do you?? You two don't really know each other -- you really don't. You don't spend weeks at a time together. You spend snippits of time together. And that time is usually revolving around sex, right? Has he ever come to see you and sex not be involved? How many times?

 

Do you think LOVE is how he treats you? Even in ending a relationship, he has no respect for you, no caring for you, no cares if he hurts you. He knows the last time he dumped you it put you in the psych hospital and yet he has no concern to ask you about it. That IS NOT LOVE --- I think that is where you are confused.

 

BUT... those are the things I love about the man I know. He has another side to him, the side that breaks my heart over and over, the side that has no problem SHATTERING my soul with a single text. And my bet is that his W is thanking her higher power that he has AGAIN decided to "work on the M"... only this time she has a little more information... I called her.

 

WHY do you think his wife is thanking her higher power he has shown back up again? What makes you think that? They haven't lived together for 2 months - I think she is tired of his ****. I think she is done with him, yet HE is the one who keeps trying to worm his way back into her life. If she has seen an attorney, she means business, more than likely. That is a lot of money to throw away on "to show him" she means business unless she means business.

 

Ok, well I "voice mailed" her. I called into our cell provider (we are on the same one) and did a backdoor voicemail without calling. I basically told her that this past Sunday night on his way back through my state after a semi business excursion down there with his best friend, he (all of this was his idea completely) made arrangements for his best friend to drop him off in my city on the way through town. MM spent the night with me and rented a one-way car rental (expensive!) to drive to his hometown the next day. THAT is how bad he wanted to see be (or have sex, however you want to look at it rationally).

 

What was your motivation for telling her? So she would DUMP him again and so he would come to you again? Was it to really let her know? Are you going to call her the next time he shows up before you let him in, you know, to keep her clued into what he is doing? Or was this just a way to get him for yourself?

 

So yes, I lost my mind and I told her this. I told her he had been with me a mere 4 days prior, proclaiming his deep love for me, so much so that he told me exactly this: "XXXX, I love you in a Bible kind of way... the way a man SHOULD love his wife. We are emitonally bonded, free and open, and intimate in every way and every part of our life."

 

I told her that, too.

 

I told her EVERYTHING, and I told her she would never hear from me again, which she will not. I have never, ever called her in a year's time. I have never wanted to. I have PROTECTED MM each and every time he has broken my soul. But this time he just pushed me too far, and I let it all out.

 

So he has broken your soul again.... and yet you state if he showed up again, you would let him in again. You would open yourself up to him doing this AGAIN to you.

 

So I have no idea what he is dealing with now. None whatsoever. She could be in completel denial, she could be in "protect"mode where she wants him even more. But as of friday he was still not living with her after 2 months since the last D-day. I have no idea if she will let him back now. And I am trying not to care.

 

I think you do care because the more she rejects him, the more he comes to you. You want her to keep rejecting him because in your mind, you think that will mean he wants you. Honey, he is a sick and twisted human. What he is doing to you is so wrong on so many levels...and I cannot for the life of me understand why you keep letting him do this...and please don't say "well, I love him". THIS ISN'T LOVE!!!

 

Someone asked me in a reply what my ideal outcome is. Well, right at this very moment: MM realizing he wants to follow through with his promises to me, and we would be in counseling together from the starting line. But I know this is not likely, and even if it were to happen, it is not healthy. If he comes to me now, I am second choice. Plain and simple.

 

His kids' spring break is in two weeks. He had told his W he was not going, she was going to go ahead and go with MM's family, etc. I know he was freaked about not going for his kids' sake. I believe this is a large part of his latest breakdown, paired with his son having a hard time with Mm not living at home for the last 2 months.

 

How can you believe a word that comes out of his mouth? Seriously, how can you? Is it your desire to be loved so badly that you will let this continue? What are you showing your girls? Do you want some guy doing to them what is being done to you? Please - please - stop the insanity. Stop letting him do this to you. STOP showing your girls that this is okay. Stop letting them see a woman totally controlled by some guy. Teach them they will find their own happiness within themselves AND that they should NEVER EVER tolerate such rudeness, disrespect and yuck from anyone - let alone someone who is supposed to 'love them'.

 

MM's W had seen an attorney last week and had asked their accountant for their tax returns. She had told hime she was "done" with him. I believe the reailty of her possibly filing for D hit him hard. And I drew the short straw.

 

Again, this is his word, right? because she hasn't told you this. This is just him again telling you all this.

 

So that's it for now. Keep the replies coming. I value each and every one, whether I want to hear it or not. And for those who wondered, yes this truly is D-day #7. She has taken him back on some level each time, and so have I. Its like when he gets too comfortable with me and she pushes him away, he goes back to her. A couple of weeks later, after reality sets back in, he comes looking for me.

 

I can't imagine in any way that he will ever contact me again. I really can't.

 

IMTK

 

This is where I am with this. Although his way of 'ending" it is despicable, I don't think he truly meant to hurt me. But he did, in the worst way possible. I can't think of a more cowardly way to break it off with someone you supposedly love so much.

 

He didn't meant to hurt you? THIS kind of thinking is what makes you stay hung up on him. YES he meant to hurt you. YES he is a coward. YES he is a loser. YES he is a jerk. NO - he is not a real man. NO - he has NO compassion for anyone but himself. YES he is self centered. This is the REAL him -- see him for what he is.

 

I believe my MM is confused on how to have the best of both: Not upset his kids and have me at the same time. Not gonna happen

 

My H and I are divorcing. It will be final very soon. I do have my girsl with me a lot as H and I share 50/50 custody of them now. My girls and I have been decorating my/our apartment and really happy as a little family. My H is struggling quite a bit, but please remember he was abusive to me and was arrested for domestic battery when I finally left the home.

 

This MM is abusive too. He may not be leaving bruises on your skin, but he is mentally and verbally abusive to you. Please see him for what he really is. He is an abuser too.

 

I AM interesting! I have hust forgotten how to share that with anyone but MM. He and I bring out the best of each other's personality. As of now I can't imagine ever finding that kind of relationship again. He just rocks my world in every way... his smile, his patience, his gentle soul. Then there's the dark side

 

I know I am coming off hard, but I can't believe you are going to continue this cycle. What does your therapist say to all this? Is she/he encouraging you to continue this merry-go-round of abuse? ((hug))

[Just a stone's throw]

FO. Thank you. So much of what you said hits home. It's funny how we tend to justify so much of what happens in an A. You summarized our mind f*** so well. Thank you.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

but please remember he was abusive to me and was arrested for domestic battery when I finally left the home.

 

IMTK, I have been following your story and I really feel for you and your situation but please don't try to make this look like you left him because of this. Whay would you have done in this situation? He caught you red handed contacting your MM after you said you wouldn't. That would make anyone go crazy. I understand that what he did was unacceptable but why is it that women can go ape **** and mentally torment their H's and no one says a word? I hope you find peace..I really do.

[I Miss the Kiss]

IMTK, I have been following your story and I really feel for you and your situation but please don't try to make this look like you left him because of this. Whay would you have done in this situation? He caught you red handed contacting your MM after you said you wouldn't. That would make anyone go crazy. I understand that what he did was unacceptable but why is it that women can go ape **** and mentally torment their H's and no one says a word? I hope you find peace..I really do.

 

I didn't leave him because of the abusive incident. I rally didn't. i may have done it sooner than I had planned, but I would have left him eventually. this just gave me an urgent reason to do so. I did drive him to it... absolutely. No it does not justify what he did, but I do accept the respnsibility for what i drove him to. I have apologized many times, but I don't have a magic wand to take it all back. I wish I could, because what i did to him has torn him up, and that doesn't make me feel good about myself at all.

 

i left my H because I love another man. Period. Not because he abused me, although it was certainly a catalyst for getting me to leave sooner.

[BB07]

I didn't leave him because of the abusive incident. I rally didn't. i may have done it sooner than I had planned, but I would have left him eventually. this just gave me an urgent reason to do so. I did drive him to it... absolutely. No it does not justify what he did, but I do accept the respnsibility for what i drove him to. I have apologized many times, but I don't have a magic wand to take it all back. I wish I could, because what i did to him has torn him up, and that doesn't make me feel good about myself at all.

 

i left my H because I love another man. Period. Not because he abused me, although it was certainly a catalyst for getting me to leave sooner.

 

That's an honest response and sounds like you have owned up to your part in that.

 

Now........get some IC so you can find the place within yourself who does not love a man who has hurt you so badly. Hugs.........

[MizzBlue72]

IMTK - knowing that you were in an abusive relationship, you really do need to lean on your counsellor and your friends and family. There are support groups also that will help you overcome some of the feelings you are probably dealing with.

 

Also - coming from an abusive relationship, you are probably more prone to attract guys that will try to control you, etc. It sounds like what this MM is doing is not good at all for you.

 

Glad you are NC. I would also change email, etc so he can not get back in touch with you again.