When the handwriting is on the wall

[paperchase]

So I'm still officially broken up but I spent the last weekend with the ex. She wanted to go to church, we did brunch, etc. We spent the entire weekend together and it was just like old times. She was constantly prying for information about who I was dating or whether I was having sex with anyone new. I just brushed the questions away without addressing them.

 

She's been real affectionate, saying things like I love you and seemingly planning a future with me. Talks about future travel, living arrangements etc and displays of jealousy and possessiveness. So now it seems like she wants to monopolize all of my time when just a week or so ago spending time with me was not a big priority.

 

None of this makes much sense to me. Can anyone give me some insight or input for how to proceed? I'd be happy to answer any questions.

 

There is one piece of information I left out. It appears I have a chance to relocate and I told my ex this. She immediately started saying how she has always wanted to move and how I always said I wouldn't consider moving because of my kids. It's not an opportunity I can ignore if it materializes and it wouldn't move me but 200 or so miles away.

[EricaH329]

Paper! I've been wondering how you have been doing. I'm glad to hear from you!

 

As far as your situation goes, do you see a trend? Because I most certainly do. At first she wants you. She starts making these promises. Then she pulls away. Then she breaks up with you. Then she wants you again. So she begins making promises, again. But after awhile, she doesn't want you anymore. Do you see this too?

 

She wants what she can't have. Plain and simple. She is a confused 24 year old, and based on her previous empty promises, her words should be taken at face value.

 

I can understand that you love her and since these are the things you want to hear (she loves you, wants to spend the rest of her life with you, wants kids, wants to move in with you, etc) it is easy to quickly fall back into her trap. But I want you to be fully aware of the fact that this will not stick for long. Once you take her back, i'm sure things will be fine for a little while. A little while. Until she wants to go off and do her own thing again. Once she realizes that she has you under her thumb, again.

 

This is going to be a vicious cycle until you pull away for good. If you are willing to go through that with her, then more power to you. But I know that you are worth more than that. You deserve someone who is mature like yourself, knows what they want out of life, and will not play around with your head or your emotions.

 

I understand that it's hard to break away from something you love so dearly. Trust me. I do. I just recently had to do it myself. But once you get yourself in the mind frame that you deserve better, and actually figure out (or remember) what your priorities are, it makes it that much easier to let go of the negativity in your life and the things that don't fit into your priorities.

[paperchase]

Paper! I've been wondering how you have been doing. I'm glad to hear from you!

 

As far as your situation goes, do you see a trend? Because I most certainly do. At first she wants you. She starts making these promises. Then she pulls away. Then she breaks up with you. Then she wants you again. So she begins making promises, again. But after awhile, she doesn't want you anymore. Do you see this too?

 

She wants what she can't have. Plain and simple. She is a confused 24 year old, and based on her previous empty promises, her words should be taken at face value.

 

I can understand that you love her and since these are the things you want to hear (she loves you, wants to spend the rest of her life with you, wants kids, wants to move in with you, etc) it is easy to quickly fall back into her trap. But I want you to be fully aware of the fact that this will not stick for long. Once you take her back, i'm sure things will be fine for a little while. A little while. Until she wants to go off and do her own thing again. Once she realizes that she has you under her thumb, again.

 

This is going to be a vicious cycle until you pull away for good. If you are willing to go through that with her, then more power to you. But I know that you are worth more than that. You deserve someone who is mature like yourself, knows what they want out of life, and will not play around with your head or your emotions.

 

I understand that it's hard to break away from something you love so dearly. Trust me. I do. I just recently had to do it myself. But once you get yourself in the mind frame that you deserve better, and actually figure out (or remember) what your priorities are, it makes it that much easier to let go of the negativity in your life and the things that don't fit into your priorities.

 

Yeah, it won't stick for long because it never does. I don't see what has changed. I didn't even go NC. I still have kids. I guess maybe the thought is if I move she'll have me all to herself. I dunno. But you are right in that as soon as I fall back into the trap she will start to pull away.

 

I was trying to figure out why the sudden apparent change of heart. I thought maybe she broke up before she had a backup plan or maybe the next guy wasn't genuinely interested in her. But during our time apart while she pulled away, she seems to mostly have been nesting in her new apt with her roommate, cooking and doing mature things..at least for someone her age. I know she went clubbing a few times and she was quick to point out how she can't hang like her girlfriends anymore and how she prefers a quiet night like we sometimes would have.

 

Having said all that I think the key is to just remember that I deserve do deserve better and to stay guarded. I cannot let this turn back into spending every night together because that won't end good. At least not for me. I've been preparing myself for how to respond if she suggests that we give it another go. My instinct is to remind her that I do have kids and that she does need to explore other relationships so she knows what's out there because she clearly doubts us and that maybe be both need to find people who better suit our needs.

 

On Sat. afternoon she came to my place with one of her few girlfriends who kind of likes me. We were outside and two of her other girls were on their way to meet up. They were going to a party nearby that my ex did not care to attend. Maybe she did, but I clearly wasn't invited and she said she didn't want to go. Anyway, the four of them had all been at brunch getting drunk off of mimosas. So my ex basically said maybe I should go inside because her two other girlfriends had been drinking and might say something not so nice. I was like, I don't care. But I left without further comment. Then she came after me and decided to tell her one friend goodbye and went inside. I recall feeling: this is no way to live. I mean she can't even manage that situation.

[EricaH329]

It's not even that she can't manage that particular situation, she can't manage her own feelings or desires. I know this doesn't feel right to you, and that your heart is pulling you in the other direction. But sometimes, it's better to listen to logic than emotions.

 

If she does come back to you, I have a feeling you won't be able to tell her a stern 'No'. So my advice to you, would be to do a 'test run' if you will. Make her prove to you that she really wants to be with you, and that this time she won't run off. Let her know that you guys will not be together, but she will be doing whatever she can to prove that she will put forth the effort. Give it a month or two. Make sure she understands that this is the veryy last time you will do this with her. That if it doesn't work out this time around, that you will be done for good.

 

I can already tell you how this is going to work out. Because my ex did this same crap to me. After the third time, I gave him a month to prove to me that he was willing to put in the effort. He did. I got back with him. And what do you know? He pulled the same crap he has in the past, all over again.

 

As much as you want people to change, or think/act a certain way... it just won't happen. Not because of you anyway. They have to do this for themselves. It's sort of like they are drug addicts. Once in awhile, when they feel like crap and worn out, they will tell you that they want to get better. They want to change. You want so badly to believe them. So you do. And what ends up happening? They break your heart all over again by going back to their addiction. It's breaking up your relationship, and they don't seem to be phased by it. Only once in awhile will you see sympathy. But even then, you can't tell whether it's real or not... because nothing is changing!

 

If you make them go to rehab, against their will... they will become sober for the amount of time they need to be. After that, and they are on their own again, they will quickly revert back to their addiction. They have to want to change for themselves, they have to want to help themselves before anything substantial will come out of their situation.

 

Me and my analogies, right? But I can't think of a better way to describe this situation, than that. You can stick around all you'd like. And I know you want to be there for this person because of the feelings you have for her... but it will not do any good. Not until she realizes, on her own, what she really wants.

Edited April 6, 2010 by EricaH329

[paperchase]

It's not even that she can't manage that particular situation, she can't manage her own feelings or desires. I know this doesn't feel right to you, and that your heart is pulling you in the other direction. But sometimes, it's better to listen to logic than emotions.

 

If she does come back to you, I have a feeling you won't be able to tell her a stern 'No'. So my advice to you, would be to do a 'test run' if you will. Make her prove to you that she really wants to be with you, and that this time she won't run off. Let her know that you guys will not be together, but she will be doing whatever she can to prove that she will put forth the effort. Give it a month or two. Make sure she understands that this is the veryy last time you will do this with her. That if it doesn't work out this time around, that you will be done for good.

 

I can already tell you how this is going to work out. Because my ex did this same crap to me. After the third time, I gave him a month to prove to me that he was willing to put in the effort. He did. I got back with him. And what do you know? He pulled the same crap he has in the past, all over again.

 

As much as you want people to change, or think/act a certain way... it just won't happen. Not because of you anyway. They have to do this for themselves. It's sort of like they are drug addicts. Once in awhile, when they feel like crap and worn out, they will tell you that they want to get better. They want to change. You want so badly to believe them. So you do. And what ends up happening? They break your heart all over again by going back to their addiction. It's breaking up your relationship, and they don't seem to be phased by it. Only once in awhile will you see sympathy. But even then, you can't tell whether it's real or not... because nothing is changing!

 

If you make them go to rehab, against their will... they will become sober for the amount of time they need to be. After that, and they are on their own again, they will quickly revert back to their addiction. They have to want to change for themselves, they have to want to help themselves before anything substantial will come out of their situation.

 

Me and my analogies, right? But I can't think of a better way to describe this situation, than that. You can stick around all you'd like. And I know you want to be there for this person because of the feelings you have for her... but it will not do any good. Not until she realizes, on her own, what she really wants.

 

I like the drug addict analogy but in some ways it applies to me because she is like a drug that i keep using, although I know it's not good for me. It feels good and then eventually it doesn't.

 

You say they have to want to change. To follow with the analogy, I think they do want to change, but maybe they can't. Maybe they have the best of motives but simply cannot execute the plan.

 

It's crazy because right now she's planning vacations with me. We had a romantic rooftop dinner that she cooked last night. I just got a call saying I'm so handsome and she was just thinking about me. And her actions lately have been consistent with her words. She was even talking about moving in together. i really just want to know why the sudden change of heart, but I don't want to ask.

 

Your suggestion about a 1 month trial makes sense but I'm not sure it would work in my situation. I think she could definitely be the perfect GF for a month, but that wouldn't mean our issues are resolved. We seem to be good for a little less than a year each time around and I cannot afford to waste another year of what I think is my prime.

 

I think what I would need is to work out her kid/age issues in couples counseling and then a real show of commitment like her moving in with me which, honestly, could be a disaster. I'd need to understand why they keep coming up and what's to stop this from happening again.

 

I would also need to see her incorporate me into her social circles more and embrace me fully in the eyes of certain friends of hers and her mother -- all of which would be accomplished if we lived together. Short of that, I'd have no reason to believe this painful cycle would not continue.

[EricaH329]

I like the drug addict analogy but in some ways it applies to me because she is like a drug that i keep using, although I know it's not good for me. It feels good and then eventually it doesn't.

 

You say they have to want to change. To follow with the analogy, I think they do want to change, but maybe they can't. Maybe they have the best of motives but simply cannot execute the plan.

 

I was actually referring to her when giving the drug addict analogy. She keeps coming back to you telling you she will 'change' (wants to be with you, marry you, have kids, etc), but shortly after she returns to the way she was before (i.e. her addiction). She'll never really change into a mature adult unless she is ready for it. You can't force that, no matter how much counseling she goes to, it won't make a difference. Maturity isn't something that can be talked through, it comes with experience and the real desire to change.

 

That being said, I don't believe that anyone who has the desire to change, can't. I think that's nonsense. If someone wants something badly enough, they will get it. Period. Especially if it has to do with their attitude on life. She just isn't ready for that change yet, on the outside she might want it, but not on in the inside. There are still things pulling her back to the way she truly wants to be. And it's becoming destructive to your relationship.

 

It's crazy because right now she's planning vacations with me. We had a romantic rooftop dinner that she cooked last night. I just got a call saying I'm so handsome and she was just thinking about me. And her actions lately have been consistent with her words. She was even talking about moving in together. i really just want to know why the sudden change of heart, but I don't want to ask.

 

Your suggestion about a 1 month trial makes sense but I'm not sure it would work in my situation. I think she could definitely be the perfect GF for a month, but that wouldn't mean our issues are resolved. We seem to be good for a little less than a year each time around and I cannot afford to waste another year of what I think is my prime.

 

I think what I would need is to work out her kid/age issues in couples counseling and then a real show of commitment like her moving in with me which, honestly, could be a disaster. I'd need to understand why they keep coming up and what's to stop this from happening again.

 

I would also need to see her incorporate me into her social circles more and embrace me fully in the eyes of certain friends of hers and her mother -- all of which would be accomplished if we lived together. Short of that, I'd have no reason to believe this painful cycle would not continue.

 

Paper, I really wish I was there and able to look directly at you while saying this. You don't understand why they keep coming up? It's because this is how she truly feels at this stage in her life. She isn't ready to settle down. She doesn't want to be with someone who has children right now. There is absolutely no other explanation for this. She even told you so herself. There is no amount of counseling that will change that.

 

Counseling is meant for people with issues, that they need help working through. Communication/anger/etc. Things like trust and desires cannot be 'talked through'. They are there. If you want to know why she feels like she doesn't want a serious commitment and children right now, I can tell you that. She isn't ready. Plain and simple. I really wish you could fully understand that, so you can prepare to move forward with your life and find someone who is ready.

 

Also, what she is doing when she is coming back to you all the time is just putting a band-aid over her real needs and desires. No one wants to feel lonely, even going through the party stage, we all want to have someone there by us. The only difference with this, is that she is using you to take away her loneliness. She doesn't want someone to take it away permanently, not now anyway. She just wants a warm body to sleep next to at night, and to be intimate with.

[paperchase]

I was actually referring to her when giving the drug addict analogy. She keeps coming back to you telling you she will 'change' (wants to be with you, marry you, have kids, etc), but shortly after she returns to the way she was before (i.e. her addiction). She'll never really change into a mature adult unless she is ready for it. You can't force that, no matter how much counseling she goes to, it won't make a difference. Maturity isn't something that can be talked through, it comes with experience and the real desire to change.

 

That being said, I don't believe that anyone who has the desire to change, can't. I think that's nonsense. If someone wants something badly enough, they will get it. Period. Especially if it has to do with their attitude on life. She just isn't ready for that change yet, on the outside she might want it, but not on in the inside. There are still things pulling her back to the way she truly wants to be. And it's becoming destructive to your relationship.

 

 

 

Paper, I really wish I was there and able to look directly at you while saying this. You don't understand why they keep coming up? It's because this is how she truly feels at this stage in her life. She isn't ready to settle down. She doesn't want to be with someone who has children right now. There is absolutely no other explanation for this. She even told you so herself. There is no amount of counseling that will change that.

 

Counseling is meant for people with issues, that they need help working through. Communication/anger/etc. Things like trust and desires cannot be 'talked through'. They are there. If you want to know why she feels like she doesn't want a serious commitment and children right now, I can tell you that. She isn't ready. Plain and simple. I really wish you could fully understand that, so you can prepare to move forward with your life and find someone who is ready.

 

Also, what she is doing when she is coming back to you all the time is just putting a band-aid over her real needs and desires. No one wants to feel lonely, even going through the party stage, we all want to have someone there by us. The only difference with this, is that she is using you to take away her loneliness. She doesn't want someone to take it away permanently, not now anyway. She just wants a warm body to sleep next to at night, and to be intimate with.

 

Thanks, Erica. What you say makes sense, although the argument cuts both ways. The fact that we keep breaking up can be interpreted to mean that she is not ready for a commitment. Yet the fact that we keep reconciling can be interpreted to mean that she is. Either way, there's a degree of confusion on her part as to what she really wants and that confusion puts me and my heart in a precarious position.

 

Having said that, I have no doubt that she is not ready to be with someone who has children. I don't think she's that far off from wanting her own, but she does not want to take on my preexisting responsibility and I can understand that. It's obvious right now that she wants me and me only. She hasn't seen my kids in a few weeks and my youngest noted that fact last night. I haven't asked her to see them either and I'm not sure whether it makes sense to even mention her absence. This change of heart on her part comes curiously at the exact time I am exploring a great opportunity which would have me relocate to her favorite big city away from my kids. Now she's saying things like if you go I want to go as well. Go figure.

 

Lastly, I can understand nobody wanting to be lonely. I sure as heck don't. I can understand her having fun and then using me as a warm body. That's what she was doing a few weeks ago and I figured that would continue until she found a more suitable age appropriate childless warm body replacement BUT now she has stopped going out with the girls it seems and is spending all of her free time with me. I didn't ask for this. I actually don't like that it's always either me or them, like she can't have me in her life except to the exclusion her social life or manage to enjoy her social life without excluding me. It's one of the reasons outside of kids that I believe she feels the need for space and freedom on almost a yearly basis. It's not a sustainable way to love.

 

Anyhow, I'm definitely not saying we are going to make it. And I'm doing my best to stay emotionally protected. I have no idea what is really going on other than the fact that there has been a major behavior reversal. Instead of pushing me away and making me feel like an option, she is pulling me close and making me a priority. She is planning trips and vacations. I want to talk about it, but I dread conversations like this because I believe they should be initiated by her and I really don't want to make the relationship "official" again (at least not if it won't last) so why open up the discussion.

 

Thanks for all your insight and keep it coming if you're not sick of me yet.

 

Cheers!

Edited April 8, 2010 by paperchase

[EricaH329]

It's beginning to seem like there are excuses for her. "She does this, but she also does this..." "She used to think this way, but she is showing me different..." I've been through that before. Denial. What a blower!

 

Do not pay any mind to her words. Try making posts that do not include what she tells you. No plans, no promises, etc. Try posting about what she does, her actions. It'll help weed out the bullsh*t. Because it's obvious that we can't trust her based on her words, right? So let's begin focusing on what she actually does, then take it from there.

[northstar1]

Thanks, Erica. What you say makes sense, although the argument cuts both ways. The fact that we keep breaking up can be interpreted to mean that she is not ready for a commitment. Yet the fact that we keep reconciling can be interpreted to mean that she is. Either way, there's a degree of confusion on her part as to what she really wants and that confusion puts me and my heart in a precarious position.

 

Having said that, I have no doubt that she is not ready to be with someone who has children. I don't think she's that far off from wanting her own, but she does not want to take on my preexisting responsibility and I can understand that. It's obvious right now that she wants me and me only. She hasn't seen my kids in a few weeks and my youngest noted that fact last night. I haven't asked her to see them either and I'm not sure whether it makes sense to even mention her absence. This change of heart on her part comes curiously at the exact time I am exploring a great opportunity which would have me relocate to her favorite big city away from my kids. Now she's saying things like if you go I want to go as well. Go figure.

 

Lastly, I can understand nobody wanting to be lonely. I sure as heck don't. I can understand her having fun and then using me as a warm body. That's what she was doing a few weeks ago and I figured that would continue until she found a more suitable age appropriate childless warm body replacement BUT now she has stopped going out with the girls it seems and is spending all of her free time with me. I didn't ask for this. I actually don't like that it's always either me or them, like she can't have me in her life except to the exclusion her social life or manage to enjoy her social life without excluding me. It's one of the reasons outside of kids that I believe she feels the need for space and freedom on almost a yearly basis. It's not a sustainable way to love.

 

Anyhow, I'm definitely not saying we are going to make it. And I'm doing my best to stay emotionally protected. I have no idea what is really going on other than the fact that there has been a major behavior reversal. Instead of pushing me away and making me feel like an option, she is pulling me close and making me a priority. She is planning trips and vacations. I want to talk about it, but I dread conversations like this because I believe they should be initiated by her and I really don't want to make the relationship "official" again (at least not if it won't last) so why open up the discussion.

 

Thanks for all your insight and keep it coming if you're not sick of me yet.

 

Cheers!

 

Isn't it a redflag that you are afraid to talk about the future of the relationship with her, because this 'illuision' might be shattered.

 

Paper, you seem like a good, smart guy - but you, my friend are settling here for whatever she is offering.

 

I hope you realize that she is acting this way because she is getting what she wants from you, and at the same time she can put vague ideas out there about moving in and kids etc, ALL because you have no committment with her. If things get heavy, or she gets bored/frustrated etc, she can back off again and can't be held accountable.

 

I just don't get why you don't respect yourself more and are just happy to accept whatever she is willing to give you.

 

I am going to also suggest, if you haven't already, that you go see a therapist on your own. I am not sure the damage that was done by your last marriage, but I honestly think you could benefit with some work on self-esteem and your own happiness/goals etc.

[paperchase]

It's beginning to seem like there are excuses for her. "She does this, but she also does this..." "She used to think this way, but she is showing me different..." I've been through that before. Denial. What a blower!

 

Do not pay any mind to her words. Try making posts that do not include what she tells you. No plans, no promises, etc. Try posting about what she does, her actions. It'll help weed out the bullsh*t. Because it's obvious that we can't trust her based on her words, right? So let's begin focusing on what she actually does, then take it from there.

 

Fair enough. I'll pay attention to actions. Right now the actions are she's in constant contact with me and being affectionate but fact is she hasn't asked to get back together and the other plans and promises are just that: plans and promises. At this point though I feel like I can't trust her words or actions. A part of me really wants to see what it's like to date other women, but I know I know I'm just talking big.

[paperchase]

Isn't it a redflag that you are afraid to talk about the future of the relationship with her, because this 'illuision' might be shattered.

 

Paper, you seem like a good, smart guy - but you, my friend are settling here for whatever she is offering.

 

I hope you realize that she is acting this way because she is getting what she wants from you, and at the same time she can put vague ideas out there about moving in and kids etc, ALL because you have no committment with her. If things get heavy, or she gets bored/frustrated etc, she can back off again and can't be held accountable.

 

I just don't get why you don't respect yourself more and are just happy to accept whatever she is willing to give you.

 

I am going to also suggest, if you haven't already, that you go see a therapist on your own. I am not sure the damage that was done by your last marriage, but I honestly think you could benefit with some work on self-esteem and your own happiness/goals etc.

 

Whether there's a commitment or not a person can back out at any time and not be held accountable. You can take a poll in the forum and see how many people were able to hold they ex's accountable for backing out of relationships, including marriage. Not many.

 

I appreciate tough love, but I don't see my status as an illusion. I'm not stupid. I'm actually quite ambivalent. The real reason I don't want to discuss things with her is not for fear of destroying whatever it is we have, but because I don't know what to say. I actually don't know what I want now. Like I'm confused. Well, I know what I want but I don't believe it's possible, at least not now if ever.

 

Admittedly when the handwriting was on the wall, i.e., when I first started this thread, I was afraid to address my relationship with her because I was hanging on by a hair and didn't want to rock the boat. This is a little different. But you are right insofar as at any time she say all bets are off. We weren't a couple. I found someone new. All is fair in love and war.

 

In fact, this happened to me a year ago when she dumped me. We continued to spend some time together post break up. I tried to win her back and she pulled away. i thought we might work things out, but she was working on a relationship with someone new and when I found out I was devastated but in reality i should have known.

 

There were so many signs. We weren't spending much time together, she treated seeing me like a chore, like she was doing me a favor, she was blowing me off, being rude, and just acting like she didn't care. At the first hint for frustration, she'd bolt. She had turned the corner and I didn't learn about NC until I had fully embarrassed myself.

 

She was way farther gone then she's ever been this time around...not saying she isn't poised to do the same thing. But I am not taking whatever she wants. I'm not sitting around upset that we aren't a couple. I'm not being disrespected. I'm not groveling or begging for her attention. I'm treating this like we aren't a couple and I'm actively trying to meet other people. Would I be hurt if she bolted again? You bet. Would I pursue a relationship with someone else right now if I met a person of genuine interest? You bet.

 

As for my psychological profile, let's leave that to the experts. I've seen a few of them over the years. I'm a pretty smart well to do guy who doesn't lack confidence but gets a little to wrapped up in love sometimes and doesn't always do what's best for myself in life and love. The "why" goes a bit deeper than I care to delve into here, but suffice it to say I'm a very self reflective person and am quite aware of my strengths and weaknesses. With the utmost humility, my story is fairly remarkable and I don't mean my story about my ex.

[northstar1]

Whether there's a commitment or not a person can back out at any time and not be held accountable. You can take a poll in the forum and see how many people were able to hold they ex's accountable for backing out of relationships, including marriage. Not many.

 

I appreciate tough love, but I don't see my status as an illusion. I'm not stupid. I'm actually quite ambivalent. The real reason I don't want to discuss things with her is not for fear of destroying whatever it is we have, but because I don't know what to say. I actually don't know what I want now. Like I'm confused. Well, I know what I want but I don't believe it's possible, at least not now if ever.

 

Admittedly when the handwriting was on the wall, i.e., when I first started this thread, I was afraid to address my relationship with her because I was hanging on by a hair and didn't want to rock the boat. This is a little different. But you are right insofar as at any time she say all bets are off. We weren't a couple. I found someone new. All is fair in love and war.

 

In fact, this happened to me a year ago when she dumped me. We continued to spend some time together post break up. I tried to win her back and she pulled away. i thought we might work things out, but she was working on a relationship with someone new and when I found out I was devastated but in reality i should have known.

 

There were so many signs. We weren't spending much time together, she treated seeing me like a chore, like she was doing me a favor, she was blowing me off, being rude, and just acting like she didn't care. At the first hint for frustration, she'd bolt. She had turned the corner and I didn't learn about NC until I had fully embarrassed myself.

 

She was way farther gone then she's ever been this time around...not saying she isn't poised to do the same thing. But I am not taking whatever she wants. I'm not sitting around upset that we aren't a couple. I'm not being disrespected. I'm not groveling or begging for her attention. I'm treating this like we aren't a couple and I'm actively trying to meet other people. Would I be hurt if she bolted again? You bet. Would I pursue a relationship with someone else right now if I met a person of genuine interest? You bet.

 

As for my psychological profile, let's leave that to the experts. I've seen a few of them over the years. I'm a pretty smart well to do guy who doesn't lack confidence but gets a little to wrapped up in love sometimes and doesn't always do what's best for myself in life and love. The "why" goes a bit deeper than I care to delve into here, but suffice it to say I'm a very self reflective person and am quite aware of my strengths and weaknesses. With the utmost humility, my story is fairly remarkable and I don't mean my story about my ex.

 

thank you for the insight, i apologize if i overstepped my boundaries.

good to know that you are keeping your options open as well.

 

good luck.

[EricaH329]

Fair enough. I'll pay attention to actions. Right now the actions are she's in constant contact with me and being affectionate but fact is she hasn't asked to get back together and the other plans and promises are just that: plans and promises. At this point though I feel like I can't trust her words or actions. A part of me really wants to see what it's like to date other women, but I know I know I'm just talking big.

 

If you feel like you can't trust her words or actions, you can't. And I don't blame you. I wouldn't either after everything she's put you through.

 

I will be the first to say that it's really easy to 'play it cool' and do the things you want her to do, but that will only last for so long. Until the real her begin to surface again.

 

I most certainly wouldn't put all of your eggs into one basket with this girl. I would start planning your life according to you. Do what makes you happy (outside of her). If you want to go on a date, do it. If you want to take up a new hobby, or pursue an old one, go for it. More time with the kids? That can never hurt either (please don't think i'm implying you don't spend enough time with them). You are your own person to satisfy now. All of the time and effort you were putting into making her happy, you can put into yourself.

 

And once you do that, you'll realize you really don't need her around the way you think you do. You'll love yourself more than anyone else, and won't stick around for treatment that you feel you don't deserve.

 

Easier said than done, I know. But try it out. It couldn't hurt, right?

[paperchase]

So we've been broken up for about a month now but we are still acting like boyfriend and girlfriend without a title. She is calling and texting me all day every day. We are spending several days a week and the entire weekend together. She is saying all the right things and reaffirming her love for me daily.

 

We have not had a single argument except a small disagreement which ended with her apologizing and acknowledging that she was testy due to her cycle. She seems to check in on my nightly when we don't sleep over and she makes not so thinly veiled references to the prospect of me with another girl displaying signs of jealousy and trying to gauge whether I am dating. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

The fact is I am dating although I have very little time to do so. I get out on 1 to 2 dates every week and there are 3-4 girls who have captured a degree of interest. Two of them I'd definitely like to know better if things don't pan out with me and the ex. I'm basically on here trying to figure out what is going on. She needed space but has taken none. She wanted to break up, but we are a de facto couple.

 

We haven't talked about "US" other than to express feelings. We haven't addressed any of our "issues". I'm not tossing and turning at night over the state of affairs because I'm ok with what is going on for now, I just don't know what IS going on. Why would she break up and ask for space just to continue to carry on like a couple. I would say she's probably pursuing other men but none have panned out. The problem is that she works long hours and checks in with me constantly so I don't know where she'd find the time.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[EricaH329]

So we've been broken up for about a month now but we are still acting like boyfriend and girlfriend without a title. She is calling and texting me all day every day. We are spending several days a week and the entire weekend together. She is saying all the right things and reaffirming her love for me daily.

 

We have not had a single argument except a small disagreement which ended with her apologizing and acknowledging that she was testy due to her cycle. She seems to check in on my nightly when we don't sleep over and she makes not so thinly veiled references to the prospect of me with another girl displaying signs of jealousy and trying to gauge whether I am dating. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

The fact is I am dating although I have very little time to do so. I get out on 1 to 2 dates every week and there are 3-4 girls who have captured a degree of interest. Two of them I'd definitely like to know better if things don't pan out with me and the ex. I'm basically on here trying to figure out what is going on. She needed space but has taken none. She wanted to break up, but we are a de facto couple.

 

We haven't talked about "US" other than to express feelings. We haven't addressed any of our "issues". I'm not tossing and turning at night over the state of affairs because I'm ok with what is going on for now, I just don't know what IS going on. Why would she break up and ask for space just to continue to carry on like a couple. I would say she's probably pursuing other men but none have panned out. The problem is that she works long hours and checks in with me constantly so I don't know where she'd find the time.

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

It sounds a lot like what my ex tries to do. When we are together, it's a huuuge pain in the @$$. But the minute we break up, he tries to be very nice, tries to act like we are together, etc. It's the commitment without the commitment. (Although now, i'm not allowing him to act this way).

 

I don't really know what other advice to give you. If I were you, i'd try dating other girls, and actually dating them. Not waiting to see what happens with your ex. I'd get to know them better and see where things go. Don't hold back just because of your ex. After all, your ex did leave you. A couple of times. Try giving someone else a shot. Nothing is permanent, remember that. If things don't go the way you'd like with these new girls, you can always break it off with them.

[paperchase]

It sounds a lot like what my ex tries to do. When we are together, it's a huuuge pain in the @$$. But the minute we break up, he tries to be very nice, tries to act like we are together, etc. It's the commitment without the commitment. (Although now, i'm not allowing him to act this way).

 

I don't really know what other advice to give you. If I were you, i'd try dating other girls, and actually dating them. Not waiting to see what happens with your ex. I'd get to know them better and see where things go. Don't hold back just because of your ex. After all, your ex did leave you. A couple of times. Try giving someone else a shot. Nothing is permanent, remember that. If things don't go the way you'd like with these new girls, you can always break it off with them.

 

The more I think about it the more I believe that when she dumped me she acted in haste. Perhaps there was another love interest that didn't materialize or perhaps she just felt that she wanted the freedom to pursue one. Maybe she wanted the mental freedom to say she was single although she introduces me to others as her boyfriend. I can understand keeping someone around as a backup but I don't get dumping someone and then increasing the level and frequency of contact.

 

Still, though, with no title we are not in a committed relationship so I have to keep that in mind. I also have to remember that if she wanted a "title" she would say something so the fact remains that for whatever reason she does not want to be in a formal relationship. Whatever that reason is, it should give me pause I suspect.

 

And you are right that I need to really explore new possibilities and not hold back. Right now I have been treating those as options but for the most part allowing my ex to monopolize my time because, to be honest, I have enjoyed being with her lately and the fact that she isn't my "girlfriend" has not bothered me one bit.

 

Actually, when she was my girlfriend she didn't give me the type of reassurances she gives me now about her love and level of commitment so it's an improvement. Plus, because we are not technically a couple and she has made no mention of reconciling I can freely date without being dishonest or cheating. When asked I can tell women I am single although I do date a few people. I am open to a committed relationship with the right person. That is all true.

 

The only problem is that my ex has asked me if I'm going out with other women. She suspects I am and I have denied it. I don't know how to really address that question. i could say it's none of your business but that seems a bit harsh albeit true.

[EricaH329]

The more I think about it the more I believe that when she dumped me she acted in haste.

 

Wasn't she thinking about it for awhile? Actually pulling away, also?

 

Perhaps there was another love interest that didn't materialize or perhaps she just felt that she wanted the freedom to pursue one. Maybe she wanted the mental freedom to say she was single although she introduces me to others as her boyfriend.

 

Doesn't matter why she broke up with you. The fact remains that she did. Now, if it were something against you (i.e. you were a jerk, you didn't pay enough attention, etc.) than I would suggest trying to work on yourself. But since that isn't the case, I believe the motive behind her breaking up with you should be of no concern, to you.

 

I can understand keeping someone around as a backup but I don't get dumping someone and then increasing the level and frequency of contact.

 

There are tons of things in this world that we do not understand. In this particular situation, I believe it has something to do with her mental and emotional stability. Something that a man should never attempt to delve into .

 

so the fact remains that for whatever reason she does not want to be in a formal relationship.

 

That should be everything you need to know right there.

 

The only problem is that my ex has asked me if I'm going out with other women. She suspects I am and I have denied it. I don't know how to really address that question. i could say it's none of your business but that seems a bit harsh albeit true.

 

You do not owe your ex anything. You should do the same things out of respect for her, that you would anyone else in your life. She is a friend now. A friend. Wouldn't you tell a friend the honest truth about something, if asked?

[paperchase]

Wasn't she thinking about it for awhile? Actually pulling away, also?

 

 

 

Doesn't matter why she broke up with you. The fact remains that she did. Now, if it were something against you (i.e. you were a jerk, you didn't pay enough attention, etc.) than I would suggest trying to work on yourself. But since that isn't the case, I believe the motive behind her breaking up with you should be of no concern, to you.

 

 

 

There are tons of things in this world that we do not understand. In this particular situation, I believe it has something to do with her mental and emotional stability. Something that a man should never attempt to delve into .

 

 

 

That should be everything you need to know right there.

 

 

 

You do not owe your ex anything. You should do the same things out of respect for her, that you would anyone else in your life. She is a friend now. A friend. Wouldn't you tell a friend the honest truth about something, if asked?

 

Yes, she was pulling away and it hurt. I was not a jerk to her as you know. I do not purport to ever understand the emotional workings of a woman and you are right that the only thing that matters is we aren't a couple so I should proceed accordingly. The only think I'm not sure I agree with is telling her who/whether I am dating. If I owe her nothing then it's not her business. I did promise that I wouldn't have sex with someone else while we are still having sex and I think that's fair.

[EricaH329]

Yes, she was pulling away and it hurt. I was not a jerk to her as you know. I do not purport to ever understand the emotional workings of a woman and you are right that the only thing that matters is we aren't a couple so I should proceed accordingly. The only think I'm not sure I agree with is telling her who/whether I am dating. If I owe her nothing then it's not her business. I did promise that I wouldn't have sex with someone else while we are still having sex and I think that's fair.

 

I totally agree with you not having sex with another person while the both of you are sleeping together. I believe that's the best thing. But... I would not suggest lying about anything. If you don't want her to know, then tell her that you actually have a separate personal life now, and whatever form of relationship that you and her have do not fit into that personal life. Of course, in a different way. But I would not lie to her. That's just my opinion, though.

[wavylocks]

Paper, I am new here and probably in no position to be giving you advice, but i just read this whole thread and it pushed a few buttons.

 

My first piece of advice is, if you haven't already done so, is sit down, go back to the beginning, and SLOWLY reread this entire thread. Use it as sort of a diary and look at everything you have said and the responses. It might help to follow you train of thought and see everything again after some time has passed. A lot of good posts were made and the answer you are looking for may be in there somewhere.

 

Second, you are a lot like me. You are in this for the long haul. You want advice, and you KNOW everything that has been said and you have listened. You are a smart guy, make good points, and respond intelligently. But the problem is, nothing anyone has said is going to convince you that what you have can't work. I understand that. I am the same way. I am at a point where my ex has left me, is listed as "in a relationship" on FB, and we are in NC. But I know her better than anyone and I am still not convinced. But in your situation, you have the chance to work and truly find out. Don't ignore issues or write them off, because as you said, you can't afford to waste another year of your life in limbo, wondering.

 

The last thing i want to say is that i would be very careful about bringing her with you if you relocate. You are obviously very caring and if something did happen where you two could not be together, you would be in a bad situation, stuck with feelings of guilt over moving her away from her friends and family.

[paperchase]

I totally agree with you not having sex with another person while the both of you are sleeping together. I believe that's the best thing. But... I would not suggest lying about anything. If you don't want her to know, then tell her that you actually have a separate personal life now, and whatever form of relationship that you and her have do not fit into that personal life. Of course, in a different way. But I would not lie to her. That's just my opinion, though.

 

Well she asked if I had been out on any dates and I said I had. It didn't go over well. She's upset and she said she doesn't know how she feels about us now, although she did say she loves me and we are planning to spend the weekend together. She says she hasn't gone out and she says I must have had someone lined up for a while. She has this idea that I have one woman in the wings where the truth is I have a few people I can go out with and see where things lead but I didn't say all that. She says I'm busy dating while she was trying to figure things out. She says we were just taking a "break". I reminded her that she said she wanted to see other people. I guess it wasn't too persuasive coming out of my mouth.

 

The funny thing is the last time around I thought we were working things out and she told me one day that she had a new boyfriend. Boy was I devastated. That was about a month after she had the nerve to mad at me for what she thought was me seeing another woman. Remember, she dumped me. Then accused me of seeing someone new when we were working things out. Then I committed to working things out and she pushed me away and found a new boyfriend herself.

 

This is all crazy. She could just say I want to be exclusive but she didn't say that so what the heck am I supposed to do. I guess I could just lie but the cat's out of the bag now.

[EricaH329]

Well she asked if I had been out on any dates and I said I had. It didn't go over well. She's upset and she said she doesn't know how she feels about us now, although she did say she loves me and we are planning to spend the weekend together. She says she hasn't gone out and she says I must have had someone lined up for a while. She has this idea that I have one woman in the wings where the truth is I have a few people I can go out with and see where things lead but I didn't say all that. She says I'm busy dating while she was trying to figure things out. She says we were just taking a "break". I reminded her that she said she wanted to see other people. I guess it wasn't too persuasive coming out of my mouth.

 

She's a manipulative one isn't she? Trying to turn this whole thing back around on you. She was the one who isn't sure about your relationship together, not you. She was the one who finally broke it off. Now she wants to have her cake and eat it too?? She wants you to be miserable while she is out doing whatever she wants to do, and apparently 'working things out'?? Ugh... this is sick

 

The only things that are left to work out are within herself. There is nothing you can do or say to make her feel a certain way... I really can't believe she is trying to make you feel that way. :mad:

 

The funny thing is the last time around I thought we were working things out and she told me one day that she had a new boyfriend. Boy was I devastated. That was about a month after she had the nerve to mad at me for what she thought was me seeing another woman. Remember, she dumped me. Then accused me of seeing someone new when we were working things out. Then I committed to working things out and she pushed me away and found a new boyfriend herself.

 

This is all crazy. She could just say I want to be exclusive but she didn't say that so what the heck am I supposed to do. I guess I could just lie but the cat's out of the bag now.

 

Nothing you ever do will be the right thing. You will never be able to say enough, do enough, etc. There will always be something wrong with the way you are doing things. She will never be satisfied. The quicker you realize that, the much better off you will be.

[paperchase]

Well, the title is self explanatory and the conclusion was probably self evident to most who have followed my story. Still, it caught me by surprise at the end and despite having been here before I feel a ton of pain and a great sense of loss.

 

The last report was that she and I were dating without a title but spending more time together than ever. I was giving her space and she was reassuring me that things were working. She was saying how close we were becoming and what a good place were were in. I did notice that at times she chose not to come over but that seemed healthy although uncharacteristic of the way things used to be.

 

The Thursday before last we went out on our date night, we made great love and the next morning she flew back home for an extended weekend. She spent the weekend with her mom and friends. While she was away I didn't hear from her as much and when we did communicate she seemed detached. I was a bit concerned because I know her mom does not approve of us and her mom is a huge influence as they are best friends and talk multiple times each day which I always felt was unhealthy.

 

So she came back and was in no rush to see me. She was irritated. I asked if she missed me and she said not really. That she had fun just doing her and handing with her friends and not worrying about me.

 

[Digression: I should add something. About a week before my ex-wife did something which landed me back in court and my GF did not handle it well. Instead of supporting me, she got frustrated by the whole thing and turned away in my time of need. I think this started the pulling away.]

 

So she came back on a Monday and we were to meet on a Wednesday. She hung out late with her girlfriends eating dinner and arrived at my place sometime after 11pm. That's when she basically told me she couldn't do it anymore and that it was over. She said she was starting to resent me. Given the hour, we did not have much time to talk not that she wanted to. We held each other through the night and she left. We did not have sex.

 

I told her that I wanted one last night together and we agreed that Sunday (yesterday) would be our last hurray, as she called it, but she changed out plans. Said she just wanted to meet, keep it brief and to the point and exchange a few items. She did not want to come inside. So that's what we did. We met, we hugged, I gave her a few things including a letter, we both cried, she said she never loved anyone more and that she wanted to be Mrs. ___ and then she left. I told her I feared we might not see each other again. We haven't spoken since.

 

It's tough on me right now. She's out having fun. She has tons or girlfriends and they are hanging out all the time. I see it on her twitter page talking about brunch, the spa, mimosas, happy hour. I'm just feeling real empty. I'm also dealing with some really heavy things in life and this just compounding matters. The timing is terrible, but she has a knack for that. This is the most bizarre dance I've ever danced. We go strong for 9 months, get weak for three, break up for three, then go strong for another 9. It always ends the same way though. I guess my life is just too much for her to handle. I'm devastated.

 

So I have a NC question. Do I delete her from Blackberry Messenger (bbm) and Twitter. It seems rude. By way of background, I did NC in the past but was not on Twitter or bbm at the time.

[northstar1]

Paper, I had wondered how things worked out. Sorry to hear it ended. We're in the same boat, so I can feel your pain.

 

Yes, you need to block all forms of contact with her, including twitter and facebook etc. Anything that you will see updates on her life, as great as they may seem, everyone self promotes themselves to have an exciting life. You don't need to see any of it. Basically you have to treat the ex as if they don't exist. Harsh yes, but the only way you'll move on. there is nothing rude about it. she is your ex.

 

I haven't seen anything on my ex in a while, and I plan to keep it that way. The less you see, the less reminders you will drudge up.

 

Stay strong and busy.

[paperchase]

Paper, I had wondered how things worked out. Sorry to hear it ended. We're in the same boat, so I can feel your pain.

 

Yes, you need to block all forms of contact with her, including twitter and facebook etc. Anything that you will see updates on her life, as great as they may seem, everyone self promotes themselves to have an exciting life. You don't need to see any of it. Basically you have to treat the ex as if they don't exist. Harsh yes, but the only way you'll move on. there is nothing rude about it. she is your ex.

 

I haven't seen anything on my ex in a while, and I plan to keep it that way. The less you see, the less reminders you will drudge up.

 

Stay strong and busy.

 

What about blackberry messenger if you know what that is. I mean I won't know anything about her life through that but it is a means to communicate. If either of us sends the other a message the sender knows whether it was received and read. Otherwise it's like texting? Deleting it will get noticed and leaving it probably won't do any harm that I can think of.