Psst! Ladies can I ask you something?

[Twenty-ten]

Fair enough, but here's an alternative theory - we can "keep up" just fine, we just don't like the goods .

 

.

 

then why do you go our of your way to be with someone who's goods you don't care for? To remind yourself of just how much you don't want the goods?

[phineas]

What behavior today, wanting to go in to work without having to hear crude comments made about my ass from other male coworkers? Or being promoted based solely on what I can give to some pervert boss who only rewards the office tramps?

 

Then your company sucks.

Where I work there are more women VP's than men.

There are more women managers than men.

People actually get promoted based on their value to the company.

 

Someone makes any type of sexual comment like that to anyone & their history around here.

 

Dude I have experienced sexually inappropriate innuendos made at me when I was working at a part time job during my highschool and university years, in fact it happened to me twice in two different scenarios.

My mom experienced sexually inapropriate comments at work not too long before that, meaning as little as 30 yrs ago, what are you talking about someone else's life experiences before my time!?!?!

 

WHAT are you talking about it doesn't apply to me?? Get real will you.

 

Sounds like you want men all over to pay for the TWO times inapropriate sexual comments were made towards you & your mom.

 

sounds like revenge to me.

 

you act like this is your life. men makeing lewd comments every day when in fact it's isolated incidents.

 

I think YOU need to get real.

 

As was said earlier, there is no shortage of jerks in this world. Don't apply what certain men do to you to the rest of us.

 

you are doing exactly what men are accused of doing in the original post of this thread.

[Twenty-ten]

My boyfriend cleans, cooks, does dishes, etc. But he still has a lot of the aspects of traditional gender roles in his idea of what the ideal is. He feels obligated to be able to provide for me, and while he would be okay with me staying at home or having my own career, he feels it's his duty as a man to be able to provide and leave me that option of staying home. He would feel like a failure if he didn't have a decent job and I had to support him.

 

So I'm not so sure that the majority of people don't have these kinds of attitudes.

 

Stop that!!! That is exactly like my guy, EXACTLY!!! and you and your guy are considerably younger than us yet same thing. So this bubble that some of the guys on here live in is simply that, their own little planet. The rest of the world pretty much adheres to a more varied reality.

 

 

 

 

When I was in high school, I was a lead attorney in Mock Trial, and at the debriefing after a competition, one of the judges (who was a real judge in the county court) told me that I had done a great job, didn't let my witnesses ramble on, got them to say what I needed them to say, etc. and "you're going to make some man miserable one day."

 

 

Nice!!! :rolleyes:

[phineas]

My boyfriend cleans, cooks, does dishes, etc. But he still has a lot of the aspects of traditional gender roles in his idea of what the ideal is. He feels obligated to be able to provide for me, and while he would be okay with me staying at home or having my own career, he feels it's his duty as a man to be able to provide and leave me that option of staying home. He would feel like a failure if he didn't have a decent job and I had to support him.

 

So I'm not so sure that the majority of people don't have these kinds of attitudes.

 

 

I think that's just a man trying to be a man & a far cry from someone believing a woman's place is in the kitchen.

 

My STBXW always had a job. I could of supported us if she wanted to stay home with the kids but it really wasn't an option I personally felt comfortable with.

 

I prefered she worked.

 

The woman i've been talking to now works her ass off & makes way more money than me & it doesn't bother or intimidate me at all.

Just as long as she doesn't try to dress me like life sized ken doll if we wind up dateing i'll be cool.

[Twenty-ten]

Then your company sucks.

Where I work there are more women VP's than men.

There are more women managers than men.

People actually get promoted based on their value to the company.

 

Someone makes any type of sexual comment like that to anyone & their history around here.

 

 

My company doesn't suck my company is great,and thanks to all the advancements that have favored women over the years I no longer need to worry about it, that's the point you fail to comprehend. I work with a lot of men and I never worry about being objectified at work, I am treated with the respect that I deserve that is based on my performance merits not on how good my tits and butt look in a skirt and blouse.

 

Sounds like you want men all over to pay for the TWO times inappropriate sexual comments were made towards you & your mom.

 

 

sounds like revenge to me.

 

you act like this is your life. men makeing lewd comments every day when in fact it's isolated incidents.

 

 

Yeah ok, and this is why I said your feelings are yours there is nothing I can do about what you feel. I've explained to you my stance but you choose to read into is as you do and so that's your responsibility to deal with the erroneous emotions my comments conjure up for you. You can interpret them as I intended and it will not stir up anything negative in you or you can cling on to whatever it is you want to read into it and you can continue festering in negative emotions, I don't really care either way. But own it!

 

As was said earlier, there is no shortage of jerks in this world. Don't apply what certain men do to you to the rest of us.

 

you are doing exactly what men are accused of doing in the original post of this thread.

 

That is such a simplistic outlook and now I understand why you keep missing the point. It's not about what a few bad apples did, it is about what was considered not that wrong or not "that bad" in one point in time vs how certain behaviors are now outcast because they serve no purpose other than to belittle and degrade women. See the difference?

[sweetjasmine]

Stop that!!! That is exactly like my guy, EXACTLY!!! and you and your guy are considerably younger than us yet same thing. So this bubble that some of the guys on here live in is simply that, their own little planet. The rest of the world pretty much adheres to a more varied reality.

 

I don't know, I think it's sometimes more difficult for guys to see it. My boyfriend does the same thing phineas is doing: pointing out instances where women are equal or have more power and saying that my experiences are mostly a fluke. I don't really buy it. Neither of us is going to convince the other, though.

[Mr White]

 

This is a good place for me to jump in and give my POV. Ruby, the problem is that you are seeing things through your own experience and feelings. Reality can be different throughout the country.

 

The problem with many so-called successful career women is that they have a double standard, they are arrogant, and they do treat their male SO different many times if he is not on the "same level"-whatever that means.

 

For example, I've heard many times on this forum from women about not meeting men "on their level", yet they will gladly still accept dates with more successful and educated men than themselves. Using that logic, shoudn't those men disqualify the women? and if they did, you know the women would band together, crucify the man and build up the woman's esteem.

 

It wasn't long ago, I heard a talk program on the radio, where these career women were stating how they weren't as attracted to their husbands anymore, mostly because he wasn't the earner, the career individual that she was. Many of them cheated with the fellow career men. Why? is the guy not the same person? Now, if a man who cheats on his wife because she gained some weight and is not as sexual as she once was, that man would be crucified by women, correct? as he should. I think men are more annoyed at the attitute of these women, not the fact of their success. You are doing well, you didn't invent the cure for aids. And, why do men not disqualify a woman for her job? that's why men lash out. Should they scream and carry-on? no, because 1) you have that right, and 2) there is nothing they can do about it-but you can see the struggle that's happening.

 

Listen, I have a 13 year-old daughter, and I want nothing more for her than to be an independant, confident woman, and I think she will. Her mom is like that, but she never lost that "where I came from" attitude and the signifigance of the person as opposed to what he does. I hope my daughter maintains an open mind, and remembers that there are so many great people to talk to, be around, and learn from.

 

They don't all have to make what she makes or have the same education. That doesn't mean she has to aspire to be like them or date them, but she can damn well have a conversation with the maid that cleans her hotel room. She might learn something she never knew. There's many great human beings out there. I think many of us have forgotten that.

 

To that point, yes, I hope if she gets her job in the music business, that she doesn't rule out the guy who teaches elementary school, or the guy who works in a trade. She has that right, but I hope she doesn't , to be honest.

 

This is what I think men are struggling with-it's culture shock. I think men feel that, for the first time ever, they (men) value the opposite sex for the human being they are more than women. While women can have any standards they wish, I think men will continue to be a bit miffed at the perceived double standard and coldness.

 

It's a very robotic society today. People choose mates based on questionare's full of mostly things that are surface traits. I'll say this, is it a coincidence that we are choosing this way today, yet there is more relationship misery, cheating and divorce than ever. And, no, I don't agree that it's all because it's just reported more, or that women don't have to live unhappily anymore.

 

I find it pretty telling that nobody bothered to answer the above:rolleyes:

 

The whole shouting "I'm independent" from rooftops thing is really an excuse for treating people badly (and then innocently ask "Why are you upset? C'mon, love ya!", which is the signature move of the abusers, by the way). All else equal, NO sane man would be intimidated by a woman's success . The problems arise when that success is taken as a source of power struggle in a relationship, which if it ever happens, simply reveals that this was a pretty dysfunctional relationship to begin with.

[sweetjasmine]

I think that's just a man trying to be a man & a far cry from someone believing a woman's place is in the kitchen.

 

Well, that's kind of my point - "a man trying to be a man". What does it mean to be a man? It means being able to provide for yourself and a woman, even if she's capable of providing for herself.

 

And FWIW, I'm not insulted by his attitude/beliefs. I wouldn't feel degraded if I decided to stay home and raise children and I wouldn't feel degraded if I went out and worked my whole life. As long as it were my choice.

[Mr White]

then why do you go our of your way to be with someone who's goods you don't care for? To remind yourself of just how much you don't want the goods?

 

the odds are bad, but you can find decent "goods" every once in a while.

I'd love my gf (and hopefully future wife) to out-earn me some day, but even if she never does, she still has plenty of balls to stand up for herself when necessary, without compromising her femininity and without having to resort to being all up people's faces about how independent she is .

[phineas]

Which is it?

Because you just said:

 

Originally Posted by Twenty-ten

What behavior today, wanting to go in to work without having to hear crude comments made about my ass from other male coworkers? Or being promoted based solely on what I can give to some pervert boss who only rewards the office tramps?

 

My company doesn't suck my company is great,and thanks to all the advancements that have favored women over the years I no longer need to worry about it, that's the point you fail to comprehend. I work with a lot of men and I never worry about being objectified at work, I am treated with the respect that I deserve that is based on my performance merits not on how good my tits and butt look in a skirt and blouse.

 

Are you talking about YOUR experiances or using others experiances as the basis of your attitude?

Edited March 15, 2010 by phineas

[phineas]

the odds are bad, but you can find decent "goods" every once in a while.

I'd love my gf (and hopefully future wife) to out-earn me some day, but even if she never does, she still has plenty of balls to stand up for herself when necessary, without compromising her femininity and without having to resort to being all up people's faces about how independent she is .

 

This is what I was trying to say but I somehow got off course.

[Twenty-ten]

All else equal, NO sane man would be intimidated by a woman's success . The problems arise when that success is taken as a source of power struggle in a relationship, which if it ever happens, simply reveals that this was a pretty dysfunctional relationship to begin with.

 

 

Well then there must a LOT of insane men around, because there are a lot of men who are intimidated by a woman's success, and simply cannot handle it if she is doing better than him. The only ones that seem to handle it fine are either betas who are too passive to get what they want out of life and live vicariously through their "take charge" women or men looking for sugar mommas or the last but fewest group of men, men who are highly developed emotionally in order to be able to handle the "competition" and shared success/interests.

The more successful the guy the more he will be threatened by a woman who can potentially achieve more than him.

 

There is a reason why super successful guys pick arm trophies for wives, they want someone who will look good and be a housewife, basically a woman who will devote herself to him and only the him and who will not find interest in any other outside projects that could potentially compete for attention that should be directed solely at him.

 

Go read the infidelity forums and see how many men feel rejected and neglected when their women, the women whom they once chose because of their passion and drive, are too successful at what they do.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Twenty-ten

[amymarieca]

While I don't believe this applies to all men, you definitely make some good points. I really like what you said about sex and money because a lot of times those are the things that keep me from having healthy relationships with men. They just can't seem to look past the fact that I have a successful career and that I need to get my freak on on a regular basis. I don't understand how these could possibly be a turn off to men, but apparently it is to a lot of them!

[Mr White]

Well then there must a LOT of insane men around, because there are a lot of men who are intimidated by a woman's success, and simply cannot handle it if she is doing better than him. The only ones that seem to handle it fine are either betas who are too passive to get what they want out of life and live vicariously through their "take charge" women or men looking for sugar mommas or the last but fewest group of men, men who are highly developed emotionally in order to be able to handle the "competition" and shared success/interests.

The more successful the guy the more he will be threatened by a woman who can potentially achieve more than him.

 

There is a reason why super successful guys pick arm trophies for wives, they want someone who will look good and be a housewife, basically a woman who will devote herself to him and only the him and who will not find interest in any other outside projects that could potentially compete for attention that should be directed solely at him.

 

Go read the infidelity forums and see how many men feel rejected and neglected when their women, the women whom they once chose because of their passion and drive, are too successful at what they do.

 

 

Let's conduct a thought experiment:

 

Situation 1: you have a marriage, where the ONLY thing that changes is that the wife all of a sudden becomes very successful and starts bring in a lot more money than before (inc. more than the husband). The family has more money and security, the wife feels more accomplished both in her career, and as a partner (since she is able to help raise the family so much better).

Do you HONESTLY think that any sane man will have an issue with that? With seeing his wife happier AND richer???

 

Situation 2: same as the above, plus additional changes: the wife is convinced that her (by now "underachieving") husband is "holding her back", and begins to resent him and begins to look around for someone "More on her level" .

 

Now take a step back, and honestly try to evaluate which one happens more often. And if so, can you blame if people become resentful/paranoid as a result?

[Twenty-ten]

Yeah but Mr White I am not talking about and established marriage where the woman suddenly decides to get a job, a second income if you will and brings in more money for the family unit. We are talking about two young professionals who are in a relationships trying to have a relationships while having their careers and where the woman is career driven and successful at what she does. Or where the couple marries and the woman's career keeps growing both in demands and in financial success. Either way she is on the level intellectually and in terms of titles and work demands as her partner, and at one point she supersedes him.

 

Tell me how that would make men feel, sure you may not have an issue with that but some men do. It's not a myth, it's the way it is.

[Stung]

 

 

When I was in high school, I was a lead attorney in Mock Trial, and at the debriefing after a competition, one of the judges (who was a real judge in the county court) told me that I had done a great job, didn't let my witnesses ramble on, got them to say what I needed them to say, etc. and "you're going to make some man miserable one day."

 

 

I've had many experiences very similar to this, and so have many of my female friends...complimented on my professionalism and then denigrated on a personal level because of it. I was discouraged by my grandparents and one of my bosses' from pursuing my degree in the biological sciences as 'men don't like women in science.' I've had men hitting on me in public literally walk away when they saw that I was reading Scientific American and not Cosmo, one after saying point-blank, very disappointed, that I was 'too smart.' I've also had some very inappropriate experiences at work and school, belittling sexualized comments from editors and professors, being passed over for fairly clearly sexist reasons (and yes I am capable of recognizing without rancor when I have been passed over because someone is simply better or more qualified than I am), veiled invitations to the office 'casting couch,' etc. etc. These are really still pretty common experiences, among the women I know; perhaps not the rule, but not the exception, either.

 

While my mom and I did all the cleaning around our house my father did most of the cooking and grocery-shopping and both my parents worked, but my husband's family was very 'traditional' in that the mom did all of the housework and childcare and never worked one day outside the home while the dad made all the household and financial decisions and then just drank beer and lifted weights while five kids ran amok. My husband is also the product of a very cosmopolitan/academic location and liberal social culture which tempered this traditionalism in him but now that his mom is a widow she expects my husband to take care of her, make all her decisions and meet all her financial responsibilities, because he is her only son--this despite the fact that she is perfectly able-bodied and has the resources to support herself without having to work if she would just follow the advice and budget he has very clearly drawn out for her, but she wants him to do ALL the dirty work for herself and his sisters' families as well. It's a huge stressor on him and a drain, financially and emotionally, on both of us, and it's so unnecessary.

 

The old ways have certainly been toned down across western society, and nobody's arguing that many things aren't different...but to believe that old thinking was left behind a hundred years ago and doesn't affect both sexes in very real ways today is naive, IMO.

[Ruby Slippers]

Dude I have experienced sexually inappropriate innuendos made at me when I was working at a part time job during my highschool and university years, in fact it happened to me twice in two different scenarios.

 

My mom experienced sexually inapropriate comments at work not too long before that, meaning as little as 30 yrs ago, what are you talking about someone else's life experiences before my time!?!?!

The slimy 40-something boss at my first job told me that the main reason he hired me on the spot is because I have great legs and he wants something to admire during the workday. He told us females were required to wear shorts or skirts, while males could wear pants if they wanted. I was 16 years old.

 

He also told me more than one graphic story about fantasies he had about female customers.

 

One night as we were closing, a male co-worker came up behind me, grabbed my ass, and made a sexual comment. I was 16; he was 20. I told my boss it upset me, and he said, "He didn't mean anything by it," then cocked his head and smiled at the male co-worker, in a "way to go" gesture.

 

Imagine an employer doing this crap to your teenage daughter.

 

He completely grossed me out and made me feel uncomfortable and self-conscious in the workplace (I always hoped like hell I was scheduled when he wasn't there), but since he controlled my paycheck and I was young and naive, I just dealt with it.

 

I could tell dozens of these stories from high school and college --which took place for me in the 1990s.

[donnamaybe]

Well then there must a LOT of insane men around, because there are a lot of men who are intimidated by a woman's success, and simply cannot handle it if she is doing better than him.

 

Very true. There was actually a thread created recently asking if successful women are intimidating or something to that effect - started by a man, interestingly enough.

[Woggle]

I don't see people pretending it doesn't happen. I just see them giving it as much concern as men did when they were the ones commonly dish it out.

 

Except the men folk - OH NOW they think its wrong.

 

Look wrong is wrong. It happening to men equally now isn't what makes it wrong.

 

You want to even the score with innocent men yet it is wrong when I want to even the score. I don't get you. Sometimes I think you are not a misandrist and I think you just want equality then you say something like this.

[sweetjasmine]

I've had many experiences very similar to this, and so have many of my female friends...complimented on my professionalism and then denigrated on a personal level because of it.

 

Yeah, it's happened several times to me. When it was teenage boys saying it, it didn't bother me all that much, but to hear it from established professionals like a freaking judge is very insulting and discouraging.

 

I was discouraged by my grandparents and one of my bosses' from pursuing my degree in the biological sciences as 'men don't like women in science.'

 

Oy. I have a bunch of friends in the sciences, and there is some weird stuff going on there.

 

And don't get me started on academia.

 

I've had men hitting on me in public literally walk away when they saw that I was reading Scientific American and not Cosmo, one after saying point-blank, very disappointed, that I was 'too smart.'

 

This one I haven't had happen to me. Though unavailable men I wouldn't be interested in anyway (eg, a priest, a 40-something married guy) have started up conversations when they saw what I was reading.

 

but now that his mom is a widow she expects my husband to take care of her, make all her decisions and meet all her financial responsibilities, because he is her only son--this despite the fact that she is perfectly able-bodied and has the resources to support herself without having to work if she would just follow the advice and budget he has very clearly drawn out for her, but she wants him to do ALL the dirty work for herself and his sisters' families as well. It's a huge stressor on him and a drain, financially and emotionally, on both of us, and it's so unnecessary.

 

Yeah, that's one of the things that can go wrong with these types of roles. All of a sudden it's your husband's duty to provide for the whole family because he's male. How is that fair?

 

The old ways have certainly been toned down across western society, and nobody's arguing that many things aren't different...but to believe that old thinking was left behind a hundred years ago and doesn't affect both sexes in very real ways today is naive, IMO.

 

Yup, and it's important to note that both sexes are affected by it.

 

Imagine an employer doing this crap to your teenage daughter.

 

 

I hope someone reported your gross pig of a boss.

[Woggle]

Rearden Metal, that was a great post.

 

Let me ask the men a question.

 

Most of my friends are smart, entrepreneurial women, and one of our biggest problems in relationships is that our guys have a hard time dealing with our success, especially if it overshadows theirs at any point. I am sad to say that I have seen some of them act like children in their attempts to criticize and knock us down a peg or two when they feel threatened like this.

 

But we don't rub it in their faces. Far from it! We are proud of them when they kick butt, and we hope they can be proud of us, too. They are supportive for the most part, but some of them have admitted they are jealous of our success, even though they wish they weren't. It brings out their insecurities and gets them talking about how they're afraid we're going to leave them for "someone better", which to me sounds ridiculous. I want to be successful and happy and share my success and happiness with the man I love!

 

I've grown past the point of dumbing myself down so men will like me more. I hope that is not the answer. And I would hate to have to downplay my happiness in those moments of accomplishment. That would be really sad. But I would be more able to do that than to pretend to be something I'm not (dumb).

 

What can a successful woman do to soften the impact of this? Seriously, tell me what to do.

 

Stop shoving it in our faces how disposable and not needed we are because women can now make their own money. The whole Gloria Steniem fish and bicyles mentality has really given independent women a stigma in the eyes of many men.

[stillafool]

Wow, I've been gone and just saw all the replies to my thread. I am going to read up later and respond. :bunny:

[Twenty-ten]

Rubby I totally feel what you are saying. Reading your story brings ups a lot of ugly feelings for me too. Exact same time period for me too!

 

I was working at this bar/restaurant I was hostess and sometimes waitress while I was going to university and while I was doing my internship for my profession and it was crazy the amount of running around I had to do.

 

They would make the girls wear skirts as well and blouses and I was not allowed to wear pants either. My uniform consisted of a pinstriped shirt provided by the company and I had to wear a skirt with it and sometimes in my running around all day I would be wearing a dark top during the day at school and therefore ended up wearing a a black bra under my uniform shirt simply because I would forget to bring and extra skin colored bra to work or to wear one for the day, it was a completely uncalculated oversight on my part simply because I had so much on my plate as it was the last thing on my mind was "what colour bra will I be wearing for the day" .

 

 

I also had this disgusting 40ish creep for a manager whenever I had to work my shifts with him he would make me close the restaurant with him and would purposely keep me til the end, and he would always make comments about how pretty I was and how if I let him take me out he would treat me like a queen and all this crap. I was as much afraid of him as I was disgusted and at the same time I really needed to keep my job since it was convenient for school locationwise and the tips were very good and my shifts work very well with my schedule. So I would just avoid his passes the best I could not being rude and not wanting to rock the boat much. One night he kept me behind again and threatened to write me up and I asked him for what? he said because I was wearing a black bra under my blouse and he could tell. I mean you had to look very closely in the back and you might see the horizontal strap but only if the shirt moved a certain way the front you couldn't even tell. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. So I made it a point to start planning my outfits around my bra.

 

Anyway the passes to go out with him continued and it got so bad I talked to my parents, my dad wanted to go in to pummel him but instead they said just tell him you will report him if he doesn't stop, so I did. Next time he asked me to close the restaurant with him and started up again with "next shift we should go out for a cofee after we close" I turned around and said to him "look I don't appreciate your comment they make me feel uncomfortable and I am just here to do my work, please stop making those comments at me or will report you to the area manager." He got kind of mad and said I was reading into things that he didn't mean anything by this. (typical response)

 

From that night on he made my life a living hell at work and would put me in the worst sections to do the worst work and I would barely get shifts. Finally one day about a month or two later I had forgotten about the bra again and he wrote me up and tried to get me fired on the grounds of not obeying his demands to wear the "appropriate" uniform. It was the most unfair thing. I ended up quitting but I wrote a letter to the president of the chain and explained what had happened and I got a call from their people and they looked into it and thankfully a month later he was gone.

 

Still my stomach turns into a knot when I think about him and right now I feel like spitting in his face.

 

So please you men with your petty minds who think women just wanted to get revenge on men, don't tell me I don't know what it's like! I know what it's like, I just want to go into work and not be subjected to inhumane treatment by some ******* unprofessional douchebag who thinks he can pull that kind of rank on me an rape me so that I can keep my job. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[pyroguy]

The slimy 40-something boss at my first job told me that the main reason he hired me on the spot is because I have great legs and he wants something to admire during the workday. He told us females were required to wear shorts or skirts, while males could wear pants if they wanted. I was 16 years old.

 

He also told me more than one graphic story about fantasies he had about female customers.

 

One night as we were closing, a male co-worker came up behind me, grabbed my ass, and made a sexual comment. I was 16; he was 20. I told my boss it upset me, and he said, "He didn't mean anything by it," then cocked his head and smiled at the male co-worker, in a "way to go" gesture.

 

 

Imagine an employer doing this crap to your teenage daughter.

 

He completely grossed me out and made me feel uncomfortable and self-conscious in the workplace (I always hoped like hell I was scheduled when he wasn't there), but since he controlled my paycheck and I was young and naive, I just dealt with it.

 

I could tell dozens of these stories from high school and college --which took place for me in the 1990s.

 

Uggh, did you have to remind me? I have a 13 year-old daughter, and lately I've been having a hard time realizing she is, in fact, a teenager. She even went to her 8th grade dance a couple of friday's ago:(

 

in three years, when she is the age you were, I can tell you the results of those actions would bring dire consequences for the man, the 20 year-old, and even his father-and people who know me, know it's so true.

 

I can't believe this still goes on-even in the 90's. Where was this? what state?

[Woggle]

Yes that is all hogwash. A time where women were to be seen and not heard is very real and it is part of a not so distant past. Again, it's not about revenge it is about finding our place in society, a place that involves a considerable step above being a human sized worm.

 

Treating an innocent man like garbage and claming it is just evening the score is very much revenge. I work with two women right now who high five each other all day about their affairs but that is perfectly okay. Don't tell me that it is simply about equality because I know better.

 

The way I see it is that I suffered my revenge for the pure misery that was inflicted on me as a child and even after that I was a feminist man. I was the guy who always respected women and always checked other men who went to strip clubs and mistreated women yet women treated me like I was lower than trash so now I have become the angry misogynist that they hate. I am the monster that feminists created.