Psst! Ladies can I ask you something?

I have to throw down the b/s flag on women who say that men are intimidated by their success, capabilities, intelligence or beauty. That's just ego-stroking nonsense. If a guy's into you enough, nothing will stop him from getting to know you.

The only possibility I can think of, is that women like this are targetting non-compatibles.

Rearden Metal, that was a great post.

 

Let me ask the men a question.

 

Most of my friends are smart, entrepreneurial women, and one of our biggest problems in relationships is that our guys have a hard time dealing with our success, especially if it overshadows theirs at any point. I am sad to say that I have seen some of them act like children in their attempts to criticize and knock us down a peg or two when they feel threatened like this.

 

But we don't rub it in their faces. Far from it! We are proud of them when they kick butt, and we hope they can be proud of us, too. They are supportive for the most part, but some of them have admitted they are jealous of our success, even though they wish they weren't. It brings out their insecurities and gets them talking about how they're afraid we're going to leave them for "someone better", which to me sounds ridiculous. I want to be successful and happy and share my success and happiness with the man I love!

 

I've grown past the point of dumbing myself down so men will like me more. I hope that is not the answer. And I would hate to have to downplay my happiness in those moments of accomplishment. That would be really sad. But I would be more able to do that than to pretend to be something I'm not (dumb).

 

What can a successful woman do to soften the impact of this? Seriously, tell me what to do.

One of three things can occur:

1. You can live with the fact that your man is a bit jealous. You can support him in his efforts to reach his upper potential, but at some point it's up to him. You may have to just accept that for all the wonderful things he is, his relative professional success may not be as great as he desires.

2. Find a man who truly enjoys your success. My ex wife eventually outearned me and I couldn't have been more proud. She was an azz-kicker at work, and submissive at home. Worked great until the 7 year itch...

3. Shoot higher. Go for men who are world-beaters. Be forewarned, the likely result of this is that you will have to concede defeat. Not to a man, per se, but to the Captain SuperAwesome that is your man. You will then, for all of your accomplishments and accolades, be rendered second in that field, taking on a new dynamic that may or may not be pleasurable for you.

That whole "we have more money, power, & freedom" thing makes zero sense to me.

"we" meaning "you" never lived in an era when women had less money, power, & freedom.

 

The men of today never lived in those era's either.

 

Nobody dateing today lived that life. Applying it as an example is senseless.

 

That's like me hunting down the decendant of the man who killed my great,great,great grandfather & killing him in revenge.

Yes but our parents and their parents did, and those are our role models and the people who are responsible for our upbringings. The next generations to come will fall more in line with what you are saying but for the time being what RS said does hold a lot of weight if you think about it.

Yes. My mother and father were very much a product of a time when a woman was encouraged first and foremost to find a man and make babies. When I was about 5 years old and told my dad I wanted to learn to play guitar, he told me, "Girls don't play guitar." (A strike against power and freedom.)

One summer in college, I applied for a job in a male-dominated field, and the employer actually told me, "I can't hire you because you would distract all the men and they wouldn't get their work done." (A strike against power, money, and freedom.)

Every woman my age has dozens of similar stories.

All the men I have had relationships with were also raised in that model of dad as provider and mom as homemaker, so those values are pretty ingrained. They never experienced their dads responding to their mother's success, because they didn't have much outside the home, and we all know that the successes of mothering are trivialized and usually considered unimportant.

My mother told me that if my dad hadn't become disabled and reliant on her care, she would have left him a long time ago. She and her friends wholeheartedly support and encourage me in making my own money and securing my own future, rather than relying on a man to do it for me. They think it is the smartest thing I could do.

Emotional - They didn't want that in the past but I notice if you appear

strong and in control of your emotions you are deemed a

'cold biotch'. WTF

 

Marriage- They say they do not think marriage is good for men, they

also tell you that men will basically cheat when a woman

ages and that women only view men as sperm donors. Yet

when a woman isn't interested in 'landing' a husband, they

label her as an 'slut'. WTF

 

Money- They have labeled women 'golddiggers' who sit home and do

nothing while their h breaks his back for them. Yet, when a

woman has a good career, makes her own money, pays her

own way - they become threatened by her and call her a

'cold hearted career biotch'. WTF

 

Sex- They complained in the past that women who could not get

into sex were 'frigid'. No man wanted a woman who

didn't enjoy sex. Yet, when women became free with their

sexuality and expressed their need and desire for sex,

instead of being grateful for an equal partner they label you

a slut. WTF

 

There are so many contradictions .....

Yeah, you summed up the contradictions nicely. It seems that what guys today want is a super sexual, skilled woman that never had any partners before him but magically knows all the intimate details of what makes good sex. All the while, she wouldn't want marriage and if *he* decided marriage was okay, then she should want marriage in the snap of her fingers and be ready to settle down as soon as possible before she gest too old so that 20 years from now he can be telling her how she *is* less attractive now but how much he *loves* her all the while oggling his daughter's friends now.

Also, we aren't suppose to have any expectations when it comes to money. But it's okay for him to have expectations about looks. We are suppose to want him on the merit of *him* alone while he's allowed to pick a combination of shallow and non-shallow factors while choosing a mate.

He will only get better with time, and as a woman, you only get worse. But hurry to snag yourself a man and tie yourself to someone that just might see you as a depreciating value while he stoops the babysitter.

He's allowed to take pride in his nice car, his high achievement in his job. However, if you do, you are clearl ya gold-digger looking for an easy ride.

Never mind that biologically women look to who will be a good provider. It's only his biology that is important and allows him to choose women on equally shallow terms.

It's enough to make a girl walk around in circles.

Except for plenty of women it IS done out of revenge.

You are partially responsible for who you draw to your life. A$$$0les are a resource we will never run out of; they come in all shapes colors and genders.

This is where the accusations of whining come into play.

One of three things can occur:

 

1. You can live with the fact that your man is a bit jealous. You can support him in his efforts to reach his upper potential, but at some point it's up to him. You may have to just accept that for all the wonderful things he is, his relative professional success may not be as great as he desires.

 

2. Find a man who truly enjoys your success. My ex wife eventually outearned me and I couldn't have been more proud. She was an azz-kicker at work, and submissive at home. Worked great until the 7 year itch...

 

3. Shoot higher. Go for men who are world-beaters. Be forewarned, the likely result of this is that you will have to concede defeat. Not to a man, per se, but to the Captain SuperAwesome that is your man. You will then, for all of your accomplishments and accolades, be rendered second in that field, taking on a new dynamic that may or may not be pleasurable for you.

This is very good advice, I liked what you brought to the table!

Number one unfortunately was my only avenue to take in my situation.

Unfortunately I have had a similar experience to that of Rubby Slipper's and it was with a man who not only was extremely smart and witty but who also earned three times the amount I did. He was simply threatened by my passion for my career. He hated what he did and was convinced I was selling myself short because I should be making closer to what he made in a job I hated vs making - a very comfortable living (I might add) - doing what I absolutely LOVE.

This was a point of contention with him.

See the thing is that you can think you know a lot about everything but that doesn't mean you are particularly good at anything. People don't feel the need to compete with that, there is nothing there really. But when someone is really good an passionate about something in life others will compete to have that same level of zeal that money simply cannot buy. Success in any shape way or form makes those who cannot achieve it feel threatened. I wasn't making over 200K a year but I felt 100% successful in what I did and I was happy, he couldn't handle that. It's as simple as that.

Well if you could be a woman living 60 years ago you would understand how things were then and how they have changed now. Saying that this happened in some obscure section of history over a century ago means you haven't a clue about social history.

 

It's not "revenge", why are you looking at it as revenge? It is finding a place in society that women deserved.

 

It isn't entitlement if you claim what you are owed, it's fair play for what you deserve.

I also said "no-one dateing today grew up like that"

Unless you want to call pudding night at the retirement home dateing.

i'm 38 yrs old. I don't have a problem with succesfull women.

But according to you, I should since it wasn't all that long ago I was forced to accept women as equals. LOL!

Also, someone that thinks they deserve something because they belong to a certain group sounds like entitlement to me.

I can't vouch for my grand parents, they died either before I was born or when I was too young to be aware of such things. All I can say is they sure didn't seem to pass this social baggage you speak of onto their children who in turn raised me.

What I will say is there are men out there who think God made womens feet shorter so they could stand closer to the sink & pass this mentality onto their kids.

There are also women who seem to take Joan of Arc being burned at the steak personally & pass this onto their children also.

It's all a bunch of hog-wash. The majority of people don't think this way at all.

But for some reason people just insist on making a huge issue out of it & I really don't understand why.

What a very bitter, distorted view of things.

LOL. What is bitter and distorted about my view point? Please be prepared to back your statement up if you can.

1. You can live with the fact that your man is a bit jealous. You can support him in his efforts to reach his upper potential, but at some point it's up to him. You may have to just accept that for all the wonderful things he is, his relative professional success may not be as great as he desires.

I have tried this, but it's hard to endure the ongoing critical comments directed at me from them, as well as them beating themselves up about how they don't measure up.

2. Find a man who truly enjoys your success. My ex wife eventually outearned me and I couldn't have been more proud.

I have ONE ex like this (the love of my life so far), and part of me thinks we might try for a second go-round in the future. I'm not sure we were ready the first time. He plans to come visit me in August. We are starting up a side business venture together, and it is going very, very well so far. We had a biz phone call the other day, and I was imagining us negotiating international business deals together. He is kicking more and more butt in his work and life, really growing into himself. We shall see.

3. Shoot higher. Go for men who are world-beaters. Be forewarned, the likely result of this is that you will have to concede defeat.

This is what I am thinking right now. And for me, it's not about winning or losing. It's about being happy, being your best, being positive, living life to the fullest.

Thanks for your post.

Joan of Arc being burned at the steak personally & pass this onto their children also.

 

 

What I will say is there are men out there who think God made womens feet shorter so they could stand closer to the sink & pass this mentality onto their kids.

 

There are also women who seem to take Joan of Arc being burned at the steak personally & pass this onto their children also.

 

It's all a bunch of hog-wash. The majority of people don't think this way at all.

Yes that is all hogwash. A time where women were to be seen and not heard is very real and it is part of a not so distant past. Again, it's not about revenge it is about finding our place in society, a place that involves a considerable step above being a human sized worm.

20-10,

Sounds kinda icky... Personally, I'd like to be an entrepreneur and have "great success" as Borat would say. Ideally, my significant other would be intimately involved and a driving force in OUR business. My parents have exactly that and it seems to be an amazingly fulfilling relationship for both of them. I'd die for that.

Yes. My mother and father were very much a product of a time when a woman was encouraged first and foremost to find a man and make babies. When I was about 5 years old and told my dad I wanted to learn to play guitar, he told me, "Girls don't play guitar." (A strike against power and freedom.)

 

One summer in college, I applied for a job in a male-dominated field, and the employer actually told me, "I can't hire you because you would distract all the men and they wouldn't get their work done." (A strike against power, money, and freedom.)

 

Every woman my age has dozens of similar stories.

 

All the men I have had relationships with were also raised in that model of dad as provider and mom as homemaker, so those values are pretty ingrained. They never experienced their dads responding to their mother's success, because they didn't have much outside the home, and we all know that the successes of mothering are trivialized and usually considered unimportant.

 

My mother told me that if my dad hadn't become disabled and reliant on her care, she would have left him a long time ago. She and her friends wholeheartedly support and encourage me in making my own money and securing my own future, rather than relying on a man to do it for me. They think it is the smartest thing I could do.

How old are you if you don't mind my asking.

I'm 38. my parents are mid-60's & you are describing a foriegn concept to me & my extended family.

My father never discouraged my sister. He was very proud of her when she made the deans list all 4 yrs of college while holding down a part time job.

Maybe ethnicity has something to do with it?

were all Italian.

I have tried this, but it's hard to endure the ongoing critical comments directed at me from them, as well as them beating themselves up about how they don't measure up.

 

 

I have ONE ex like this (the love of my life so far), and part of me thinks we might try for a second go-round in the future. I'm not sure we were ready the first time. He plans to come visit me in August. We are starting up a side business venture together, and it is going very, very well so far. We had a biz phone call the other day, and I was imagining us negotiating international business deals together. He is kicking more and more butt in his work and life, really growing into himself. We shall see.

 

 

This is what I am thinking right now. And for me, it's not about winning or losing. It's about being happy, being your best, being positive, living life to the fullest.

 

Thanks for your post.

#2 sounds awesome. I'll keep my fingers crossed for that one.

Was this a Freudian slip? Whether stake or steak, it's true that she was burned, albeit it should read, burned by the steak...

Nah, just poor grammar & spelling on my part. LOL!

Yes that is all hogwash. A time where women were to be seen and not heard is very real and it is part of a not so distant past. Again, it's not about revenge it is about finding our place in society, a place that involves a considerable step above being a human sized worm.

you toss out "human sized worm" to portray how you feel women WERE treated and say it's NOT about some kind of revenge?

Are you serious?

Where exactly is your place in society?

The women I know are right along side me.

20-10,

 

Sounds kinda icky... Personally, I'd like to be an entrepreneur and have "great success" as Borat would say. Ideally, my significant other would be intimately involved and a driving force in OUR business. My parents have exactly that and it seems to be an amazingly fulfilling relationship for both of them. I'd die for that.

Yeah "icky" is right, hence why I am speaking of him in the past tense. I saw his profile on Linked in not that long ago and I saw that he was doing something very close to what I do for a living now. I guess he went back to school and got an upgrade on his degree so that he could be more of what he discouraged me of being. It was an interesting find to say the least.

What's the saying.... if it walks and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

you toss out "human sized worm" to portray how you feel women WERE treated and say it's NOT about some kind of revenge?

It's not, that is your interpretation and those are your emotions that are drawn from my statement. You have full ownership of your feelings there is nothing I can do about that.

Are you serious?

 

Where exactly is your place in society?

The women I know are right along side me.

Yeah "icky" is right, hence why I am speaking of him in the past tense. I saw his profile on Linked in not that long ago and I saw that he was doing something very close to what I do for a living now. I guess he went back to school and got an upgrade on his degree so that he could be more of what he discouraged me of being. It was an interesting find to say the least.

 

What's the saying.... if it walks and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

 

 

 

 

It's not, that is your interpretation and those are your emotions that are drawn from my statement. You have full ownership of your feelings there is nothing I can do about that.

 

Yes I am serious. According to my views the place of women in society is exactly where you described. Again, I don't see where revenge plays a role in that?

I've felt more emotion over discovering a new type of beer when compared to this subject.

Like I said baseing your behavior today on the life experiances of someone else from before your time is just plain silly.

Honestly, I can't stop thinking of the movie PCU when I read stuff like this.

Just groups of people argueing over whose been repressed the most by society.

How old are you if you don't mind my asking.

I'm 38. my parents are mid-60's & you are describing a foriegn concept to me & my extended family.

 

My father never discouraged my sister. He was very proud of her when she made the deans list all 4 yrs of college while holding down a part time job.

 

Maybe ethnicity has something to do with it?

 

were all Italian.

My family is Italian/Spanish, and we're from South America. I was born there and I'm in my 20s.

I was encouraged to study and become an intelligent person with opinions of my own. But you know what? All those attitudes about women's place still exist in my family. Sure, I can go out and study and make something of myself, but I've literally been told by my mother that it's my job to clean the house, wash the dishes, and do laundry. She does all the household work and has always done it. The only one whoever lent a hand was my grandmother.

My father and brothers were never asked to help with dinner or wash the dishes or even carry their own laundry down to the basement. Because that's not their job. It's mine and my mother and grandmother's. Whenever dishes piled up in the sink, it was me that got asked to clean up. Since I was a teenager, I'd get all uppity and say, "Oh yeah? How come they don't ever do it?" And the answer I'd get was because I'm a girl and it's a woman's job.

My father has always been supportive of me doing well in school, but when I started my PhD program, you know what he said to me? He was asking about my boyfriend and what he's going to do for a living. And then he said, "Well, you study a bunch of BS, but that's okay. You can afford to waste time on things like your PhD because you're a woman and you'll find someone to take care of you." I was completely shocked to hear that come out of his mouth. He had never said anything like that before. Ever. If you had asked me 10 minutes prior if I thought he'd ever say anything like that, I would've said, "Absolutely not!" But he did. He told me that my career choices are unimportant and irrelevant because I'm going to marry a man who's going to take care of me, anyway.

And whenever someone asks my mother when she's going to be a grandma, she looks at me and goes, "*sigh* I don't know!" even though my brothers are all older than me and even though one has been in a long term relationship for six years now. Because it's apparently my responsibility to pop out babies for her.

When I moved away to graduate school, my mother got all upset with me and she told me that it was because she always imagined I'd get married after I graduated college and settle down near home so she could come over and take care of the grandbabies and help me with chores around the house.

So, please, don't tell me that some of us aren't still affected by these attitudes.

Like I said baseing your behavior today on the life experiances of someone else from before your time is just plain silly.

 

What behavior today, wanting to go in to work without having to hear crude comments made about my ass from other male coworkers? Or being promoted based solely on what I can give to some pervert boss who only rewards the office tramps?

Dude I have experienced sexually inappropriate innuendos made at me when I was working at a part time job during my highschool and university years, in fact it happened to me twice in two different scenarios.

My mom experienced sexually inapropriate comments at work not too long before that, meaning as little as 30 yrs ago, what are you talking about someone else's life experiences before my time!?!?!

WHAT are you talking about it doesn't apply to me?? Get real will you.

The problem here is that people are trying to stereotype an entire sex. there is no way to do that. There are sweet men and there are bitter men. same for women. there are men who love marriage and there are men who dont want it. It just depends on who u get

I said above these mentalities still exist.

but it's the minority & my personal experiance is far different.

The men in my family do a lot of the cooking & also do dishes, clean ect.

sweetjasmine,

you and I could be the exact same person but with 10 yrs difference. My experience is VERY similar to yours.

We women have more money, power, and freedom than we have in a long time (may have had more in some ancient cultures, such as Egyptian and those with goddess-based religions and myths). Because we have more money, power, and freedom, we don't have to depend on men like we used to, and that means we don't have to put up with behavior and treatment we don't want to put up with. We can be choosier with our mates. Naturally, the men who fall below our expectations and are not chosen are bitter.

 

The only sound path for us women is to drive our own destinies. The strong, capable men we want will keep up with us and evolve along with us. Those who can't keep up will disqualify themselves.

 

Complaints from men about how much women suck is the best evidence of mate unsuitability there is.

Fair enough, but here's an alternative theory - we can "keep up" just fine, we just don't like the goods .

I haven't heard a man being labeled a weakling for bitching about his incompetent auto-mechanic .

I said above these mentalities still exist.

but it's the minority & my personal experiance is far different.

 

The men in my family do a lot of the cooking & also do dishes, clean ect.

My boyfriend cleans, cooks, does dishes, etc. But he still has a lot of the aspects of traditional gender roles in his idea of what the ideal is. He feels obligated to be able to provide for me, and while he would be okay with me staying at home or having my own career, he feels it's his duty as a man to be able to provide and leave me that option of staying home. He would feel like a failure if he didn't have a decent job and I had to support him.

So I'm not so sure that the majority of people don't have these kinds of attitudes.

sweetjasmine,

 

you and I could be the exact same person but with 10 yrs difference. My experience is VERY similar to yours.

Heh, and I didn't even mention stuff outside my family.

When I was in high school, I was a lead attorney in Mock Trial, and at the debriefing after a competition, one of the judges (who was a real judge in the county court) told me that I had done a great job, didn't let my witnesses ramble on, got them to say what I needed them to say, etc. and "you're going to make some man miserable one day."