I was definitely gaslighted by my H, but did the OW do it deliberately?

[bentnotbroken]

this is true - so it is ultimately the H to blame... he allowed her presence in your home... looks as if she showered in your personal space and he's still playing the cover up game - blocking the M from any form of repair or possible rebuilding of trust. this would never be enough for me to stay with him...

 

FULL disclosure is necessary. otherwise the relationship is still being built upon lies.

 

even if he tells - the fact that he brought her to your personal space is a totally disrespectful act and shows such disregard for your M - leaving me to believe that he has such deep rooted anger issues with you - even if shown in such a passive aggressive manner.

 

 

While I completely agree with your assessment of the passive aggressive behavior of her H and Mr. Messy, I do disagree that he is the only one to blame. Yes, he is the owner of the home and didn't have to invite ow there. I believe it is a pretty sad statement of OW(or OM as the case maybe) who is willing to go into a families home and defile it with the spouse. I have seen AP on here say that is absolutely where they drew the line, yet others who not only used the BS bed, but personal belongings. I know ow looked at and through my things. I know she spread her legs with my children pictures smiling down on them from the wall.

 

While Mr. Messy should have been the gatekeeper of our privacy and our family's peace of home, there is always the word...no. I don't view either of them with more blame than the other, they are equally responsible for defiling each other's homes.

[whichwayisup]

She also spent time alone in our bathroom and whatever she did was done then.

 

You should get a new (renovated)bathroom out of this. New bedset too, mattress and all. That's the least he should do!

 

Sky, as awful, sick and wrong that was of you to do to mm's w, atleast now you see it IS wrong and you seem regretful. And I'm sure it took alot for you to admit doing that to your MM's wife, admitting it on here.. Just hope (if you're still with your MM, or any other MM in the future) you remember this thread, if you ever get the urge to do any of those things again.

[silverfish]

I have deliberately done a few things that would arouse my MM’s W suspicions, but not on a regular or continuous basis. I’ve moved things around on her nightstand and used and moved things in her bathroom and intentionally left hair strands in the bed, bath and living rooms. I do regularly try to leave my scent on MM’s clothes. W has noticed more than once. Calling card?...maybe. I don’t feel bad about her smelling my perfume on his clothes, but I do feel bad about touching her things and such just so she would notice.

Moaningmrytle, I am sorry that you are experiencing this. I was (IDK maybe still am) the type of OW that relished in f*cking with the W by doing things like that. I've done it to other MM/attached I’ve dated. When I follow stories like yours that make his W seem like a “real” person to me, I truly am sorry for many of the things I’ve done. Why I felt like I had to further humiliate the BW by “showing” I was there, I really have no idea.

 

Don't you think its a little childish to behave like this? I've got a tomcat, and he just sprays on the walls etc when he wants to mark his territory, I'm getting him spayed in a few days lol...don't you think that you are above this behaviour? You are only hurting the W in this scenario, the MM doesnt know or care probably - female games and all that being beyond most of them

[silverfish]

I have deliberately done a few things that would arouse my MM’s W suspicions, but not on a regular or continuous basis. I’ve moved things around on her nightstand and used and moved things in her bathroom and intentionally left hair strands in the bed, bath and living rooms. I do regularly try to leave my scent on MM’s clothes. W has noticed more than once. Calling card?...maybe. I don’t feel bad about her smelling my perfume on his clothes, but I do feel bad about touching her things and such just so she would notice.

Moaningmrytle, I am sorry that you are experiencing this. I was (IDK maybe still am) the type of OW that relished in f*cking with the W by doing things like that. I've done it to other MM/attached I’ve dated. When I follow stories like yours that make his W seem like a “real” person to me, I truly am sorry for many of the things I’ve done. Why I felt like I had to further humiliate the BW by “showing” I was there, I really have no idea.

 

Sorry, but just a further point. There is a little arrogance there in your post. I experienced similar :

 

*I'm awful, no one understands me, I live outside the parameters of your reality because I'm such a f*ck up and the only people that understand me are other f*ck ups who are exciting and real like me*. Shortly followed by that whole scene not being much fun beyond the predictable sex that is just sex and not angst ridden existential whatever, which ends in tears because both parties are egos on sticks (sorry for ranting).....

 

You must have some idea why you did this / do this. I guess, because I'm not all that together myself, its something to do with self esteem right?

[freestyle]

Sorry you went through that Myrtle. Being gaslighted by the OW as well just heaps insult upon injury. And yes sometimes an OW can be that messed up and cruel.

 

In my case it was absolutely deliberate.She was a long-standing friend of my bf's who'd been AWOL, but started contacting him again when her LTR dissolved.(hmmmm....)He and I had been together for a year, and were alredy talking about growing old together before I met her.

 

So the very first time I met her she was pleasant and friendly---until my bf was out of earshot.She pulled me to the side and proceeded to "warn" me about my bf(unsolicited).....she cast aspersions on his character, honesty, implied that he was just toying with me emotionally, that I was just a piece of a**,and strongly suggested that he was a player.She also tried to demean me with the old," you can never 'really' understand him routine.... None of this described the man I knew,and loved.

 

As I became more and more incredulous, she tried to play it off as "trying to help me...":rolleyes:. When I tried to mention positive aspects of the R, she didn't want to hear any of it.....she was trying so hard to browbeat me into believing my guy didn't really love me, and actually said, "I just think there's someone.......better.... for you............." Well now, she would be the expert after knowing me for all of....5 hours.

 

I suspected she was deliberately trying to provoke a fight between me and my bf, so I didn't go running to him. Not right away.This encounter happened at a public event, so I didn't allow her to bait me. I decided to bide my time. After I stumbled across a love note she wrote him a month later,(ironically contradicting everything she "warned" me about, she was gushing about how honest he is...), I had my confirmation that she had indeed tried to feed me a bunch of b.s. about my bf. Attempted gaslighting there, which I saw through.

 

The damaging gaslighting happened when I finally told my bf about what she'd said to me. He confronted her and she denied everything....painting me as being jealous, insecure,possessive....."oh no, she heard me all wrong....she misquoted me........she misinterpreted...."...."no, I never said that...." "she must be unstable...."..........

 

Yeah, trying to mess with my head wasn't enough for her........she then tried to defame my character on top of that.Not only to my bf, but other people as well.........I got weird looks from people I didn't even know.grrrrr.

 

Yep, it's not always just WS who resorts to underhanded tactics to pursue their own agenda, sometimes the AP does it as well.

 

I can't even imagine the fury of finding out that OW had been using your personal things.........that really is messed up. Even more than my story.

[2sunny]

so to answer your original question - yes, she did it on purpose. she did it more than one time even.

 

did she leave any other evidence of her presence behind on purpose? i'd bet she did.

 

and if he knew you pointed it out - why was he not at least willing to clean up the mess she left behind... did he care that little for your feelings on top of his cheating ways - even after he knew you may be aware of something being "off"?

 

i can't imagine why a man is this clueless as to think that you won't notice... what's up with that?

[silverfish]

so to answer your original question - yes, she did it on purpose. she did it more than one time even.

 

did she leave any other evidence of her presence behind on purpose? i'd bet she did.

 

and if he knew you pointed it out - why was he not at least willing to clean up the mess she left behind... did he care that little for your feelings on top of his cheating ways - even after he knew you may be aware of something being "off"?

 

i can't imagine why a man is this clueless as to think that you won't notice... what's up with that?

 

Can't answer for Myrtle but in my case : he was scared at what he had unleashed, and disappeared in to the whole IDK / she (the OW) was lying thing, at which point you have to try and move on rather than endlessly making yourself look like an idiot over small details like combs / tapes...whatever, that dont add up, and try and move on because he's begging you to drop it and move on.....which is what I tried to do because it seemed that's what he wanted at the time.

 

Does everyone need to know every little detail? I just accepted that he made an error of judgment at that point in time, and realised that I was just as capable of doing that as well, in my own way...except years later those things slowly destroy your capability to be intimate unless you really get to the bottom of what caused the thing to happen in the first place......

[GreenEyedLady]

It sounds like she did it on purpose from your post.

 

That is really trashy. What's even trashier is that your H brought her to your house SEVERAL TIMES, knew that she was doing it, and kept bringing her to YOUR house.

 

You need to watch Something to Talk About and get the recipe that Julia Roberts fed her H because he's an a**.

 

Sorry that you had to suffer through that. I hope you've been able to heal and move on from it or that you can find someone to talk to that can help you process it.

 

((HUGS))

 

GEL

[White Flower]

First of all that is gross Moaning...God only knows....a "calling card"?

 

I have been on and off of LS, although during the time that I have been reading this forum I don't remember OW saying or doing anything such as this or even like this. I do remember maybe 2 BW's that posted about OW coming after them in various ways.

 

As far as my circumstances....even during and after the D I wanted nothing to do with "his" or "hers", meaning he has wanted me to go to his house (he got one of the houses) and even with it being "his" now, I still see it as his and hers...you know? Actually he got 2 of the three houses and they are all in a row....

 

I don't think it is appropriate for me to be there on both sides....mine and hers....

 

Moaning, possibly your situation is as weird as mine was...I am very sorry that you got hurt so bad Moaning...FTR All OW aren't like what you were possibly dealing with....IMO the ladies on this forum are quite straight up.

 

Like communicating in other posts/replies, I also have been the BW...I was never threatened by the OW, nor did my ex's gaslight. The problems existed within the confines of the M.

 

I can communicate to you from experience being on every end that gaslighting is a whole different ballgame. Once again that was a very cruel act from whoever....((((hugggssss))))))))

Moaning, what you experienced is just awful.

 

MM invited me to his house twice and I really thought I was going just to see his latest upgrades or artwork, etc., but after the seduction I realized I could not go there anymore. JFTR we never made it into their bed nor any place they would have done it. I decided I would never go there again because in my mind, even though I could be with him (her H) I could not invade her personal space. It was a lesson learned.

 

As for the sliminess of the watery comb found in your bathroom my guess is that she used conditioner and then used the comb afterwards. I've heard that some people who have rather thick and frizzy hair will leave in the conditioner or other product to keep it tame. Do you know what kind of hair your H's exOW had?

 

I can't imagine why she would leave a 'calling card' unless she wanted you to find out or just rub it in your nose. I don't think like that so I don't understand it.

[pureinheart]

Well then just see it like : maybe she thought she had nits, and put conditioner in her hair and combed it out in your bathroom because she was too much of a skank to have such niceties as *combs* and *conditioner* in her own bathroom. I'm projecting here obviously, but hey, whatever works....

 

I was thinking about it and I use gel in my hair....but using using someones comb ESPECIALLY the W's...OMG

[freestyle]

The sad truth is some women do think like that. for the most part the OW on LS aren't that cruel, which has helped to restore my faith somewhat.

 

In Myrtle's case, and mine, we both had the experience of dealing with an OW who actually got some sort of perverse gratification from rubbing our noses in it. Which indicates to me a severely disordered personality.........it's the kind of thing a malignant narcissist would do.

Anything to feel superior.

 

Myrtle, in your case, she may have been trying to get you pissed off enough to leave your H, so she could then move in and fill the vacuum.That could have been the motivation behind the "calling card", as WF pegged it.

[bentnotbroken]

The sad truth is some women do think like that. for the most part the OW on LS aren't that cruel, which has helped to restore my faith somewhat.

 

In Myrtle's case, and mine, we both had the experience of dealing with an OW who actually got some sort of perverse gratification from rubbing our noses in it. Which indicates to me a severely disordered personality.........it's the kind of thing a malignant narcissist would do.

Anything to feel superior.

 

Myrtle, in your case, she may have been trying to get you pissed off enough to leave your H, so she could then move in and fill the vacuum.That could have been the motivation behind the "calling card", as WF pegged it.

 

 

You can add me to the list of ow who are narcissist. I don't' think she is as bad as Mr. Messy though. Had they remained together I think one of them would have eaten the other alive by now.

[freestyle]

You can add me to the list of ow who are narcissist. I don't' think she is as bad as Mr. Messy though. Had they remained together I think one of them would have eaten the other alive by now.

 

 

 

Welcome to the club, then----the club no one really wants to be in.....

 

I do believe the healing takes that much longer when your head gets deliberately messed with by the OW. Add that to being betrayed by your SO, and you feel like you're being tag-teamed.

 

I never knew I was capable of feeling such rage, and helpless frustration all at the same time.And I just couldn't wrap my head around why she would be so nasty towards me, when she didn't even know me......Actually that's what prompted me to start reading up on bullying, relational aggression, and narcissism. Everything I experienced was explained.

[pureinheart]

so to answer your original question - yes, she did it on purpose. she did it more than one time even.

 

did she leave any other evidence of her presence behind on purpose? i'd bet she did.

 

and if he knew you pointed it out - why was he not at least willing to clean up the mess she left behind... did he care that little for your feelings on top of his cheating ways - even after he knew you may be aware of something being "off"?

 

i can't imagine why a man is this clueless as to think that you won't notice... what's up with that?

 

I think Moaning said other things were left behind. If this "individual" (I use this term at times out of disgust) was as sneaky as she sounds, and the H trying to cover up other things may have overlooked certain things. He mostlikely had his hands full.

 

Lust is a very powerful tool ...and in thinking (I know it's getting scary now...lol) this individual had little respect for the H, why would she want him to get caught...I can understand "desiring" him to get caught if she wanted to be with him, although this is drastic to me.

 

I was thinking about it and I use gel in my hair....but using using someones comb ESPECIALLY the W's...OMG

 

Oh just wanted to clarify that I use styling gel in my hair, stating that it is a slimy product also.

[pureinheart]

Moaning, what you experienced is just awful.

 

MM invited me to his house twice and I really thought I was going just to see his latest upgrades or artwork, etc., but after the seduction I realized I could not go there anymore. JFTR we never made it into their bed nor any place they would have done it. I decided I would never go there again because in my mind, even though I could be with him (her H) I could not invade her personal space. It was a lesson learned.

 

As for the sliminess of the watery comb found in your bathroom my guess is that she used conditioner and then used the comb afterwards. I've heard that some people who have rather thick and frizzy hair will leave in the conditioner or other product to keep it tame. Do you know what kind of hair your H's exOW had?

 

I can't imagine why she would leave a 'calling card' unless she wanted you to find out or just rub it in your nose. I don't think like that so I don't understand it.

 

I don't understand either WF...I know I do/have done a lot of uncool things, although most are unintentional.

[moaningmyrtle]

Thank you to all who replied. I'm none the wiser about the OW's motivations; ie whether she was deliberately leaving a "calling card" (good analogy BTW) or it was just a bathroom thing she did.

 

To answer some of the questions posed by posters. Yes I know which rooms they did "it" in and that includes our bed, our backyard(?) and our other big bathroom. My H says the small bathroom was only ever used by her "alone" to do private bathroom things that one normally does alone. She never washed her hair at our place but may well have used a styling gel (good suggestion); he says he doesn't know - I believe him because I don't think he knows much about how I wash and condition my hair either. We have a new mattress and bed.

 

I find it yucky that she might have used my comb and so does my H. Funnily enough he has always used my comb too - I caught him doing it years ago and I asked him last night if he still does (he does). He said he never told the OW that he did, and probably would have felt foolish in telling her - also that he often uses my deodorant. Apparently she noticed and commented that we shared shampoo - perhaps she has a thing about hair - I dunno.

 

My H has really tried hard since d-day and mostly I cannot fault how he has behaved towards me. I can see he wants to stay married and is willing to put in the very hard yards to rebuild it.

[pureinheart]

The sad truth is some women do think like that. for the most part the OW on LS aren't that cruel, which has helped to restore my faith somewhat.

 

In Myrtle's case, and mine, we both had the experience of dealing with an OW who actually got some sort of perverse gratification from rubbing our noses in it. Which indicates to me a severely disordered personality.........it's the kind of thing a malignant narcissist would do.

Anything to feel superior.

 

Myrtle, in your case, she may have been trying to get you pissed off enough to leave your H, so she could then move in and fill the vacuum.That could have been the motivation behind the "calling card", as WF pegged it.

 

FS, living in the location I lived in, growing up with the "free love" and stuff, partying, love the one your with and so on. Me and my friends were hitchhiking in the Hillside Strangler days...I grew up with a priddy hard core bunch. Also there wasn't the major deception, you know....hey your BF, H, whatever just came home and said they were off with someone else and that was it...you moved on/they moved on, no fighting, nothing.

 

I was actually the "freak" per sey because I wasn't into the "free love", meaning screw everyone in sight, in fact the girls were laughing one day in HS about how many times "they had done it", I seriously asked them what was it they had "done"....they looked at me like I was crazy.

 

This is why I had difficulty understanding why the W's were so upset. I too am gaining a greater understanding after being in such a "freak" situation myself and hearing these jacked up happenings.

 

It's like diabolical, you know????? None of my personal past experiences, with the exception of exDM, have never even come close to what I am hearing from you ladies in these recent threads. Needless to say, I am shocked.

[pureinheart]

Thank you to all who replied. I'm none the wiser about the OW's motivations; ie whether she was deliberately leaving a "calling card" (good analogy BTW) or it was just a bathroom thing she did.

 

To answer some of the questions posed by posters. Yes I know which rooms they did "it" in and that includes our bed, our backyard(?) and our other big bathroom. My H says the small bathroom was only ever used by her "alone" to do private bathroom things that one normally does alone. She never washed her hair at our place but may well have used a styling gel (good suggestion); he says he doesn't know - I believe him because I don't think he knows much about how I wash and condition my hair either. We have a new mattress and bed.

 

I find it yucky that she might have used my comb and so does my H. Funnily enough he has always used my comb too - I caught him doing it years ago and I asked him last night if he still does (he does). He said he never told the OW that he did, and probably would have felt foolish in telling her - also that he often uses my deodorant. Apparently she noticed and commented that we shared shampoo - perhaps she has a thing about hair - I dunno.

 

My H has really tried hard since d-day and mostly I cannot fault how he has behaved towards me. I can see he wants to stay married and is willing to put in the very hard yards to rebuild it.

 

I bet this was really hard for you...and it is not uncommon for couples/M'ed people to share personal items, although that is because they are "close"...I mean for Gods sake our kids have mostlikely used our brushes and combs...but....

 

Moaning, I really sensed he (your H) is for real, let's just say it's a gut feeling. People do really stupid things at times, of which I am the Queen, although to forgive is divine...lol...(I preach that a lot because I need it sooooo much!).

 

It sounds like you are stable, as I fear in some cases the BS can never get over the injustice. I wasn't, but I was just as bad as they were because after they cheated so did I and I played for keeps and left with the one I cheated on them with.

 

You on the other hand have overcome this, and for good reason, he is NOT a bad guy. Others aren't as fortunate....happily ever after works for me!!!!!

[mybrowneyedgirl]

moaning - just wanted to put a word of caution in here. please dont be certain on the things he says regarding the details.

 

my xmm came clean to his wife after dday and now several months out i know that she still has no clue as to the places, times circumstances as which we were together. he would tell her we did it here on this date and so on to deflect the truth. she views it as him giving her the details and coming clean while its still a false way of him hiding the truth from her.

 

i do have to say that i NEVER intentionally did anything for her to know i was there. but i can tell you i was aware of every picture, every shoe, every anything that belonged to her. i can tell you how she lays out her clothes, where she keeps her hair ties, what type of toothpaste she uses.

 

so this OW could easily be doing something to leave subtle clues that she had been there. sort of in my situation when his W was out of town and we would be together their certainly would be a bottle of wine that we drank together. i wonder if she noticed it was gone when she got back. or the takeout in the fridge...did she think he got it alone?

 

i was directly involved in gaslighting as she knew of our friendship and i knew her on a personal level. let me also say i NEVER NEVER NEVER wanted to know her or meet her. he brought her around me and it would make me feel sick every time. it was his way of making her more comfortable with our friendship. so yes, i did gaslight her.

[BlueeyedJonesy]

Sorry for your pain MM. Hopefully you can find peace through your pain. This post makes my skin crawl..there are really people out there who get off on another person's pain....just be glad you don't have to wreck someone else's life to get where you want to be...and remember YOU did not CHOOSE to be a BS but you are choosing to reconcile and pick up the pieces. Good for you..

[MizFit]

I hate to be the one to lay things squarely at the feet of the MM, but here goes...

 

I was at their vacation home twice and their marital home once (well twice, but it was over a long weekend where I went once and he asked me to come back again a few nights later)...I did nothing to gaslight her. I actually rang him and remembered putting something into the trash basket in the bathroom and told him to remove it.

 

Back to the MM...he asked me into their personal space. He unlocked everything that should have been sacred and gave me access to it...in a very strange way it was an amazing sensation of power that he would allow me there. I knew he wasn't taking it lightly and it wasn't an easy decision for him. We had some very long discussions with me landing on the 'this is unforgiveable and you're an idiot' side every time...him always saying he wanted it to happen and he would deal with the consequences.

 

I know BS hate me for having no remorse for what happened and there are a lot of reasons for it, but the main being the choices to violate the relationship he vowed to keep were his...everything that happened was orchestrated by him and I have never been allowed anywhere he hasn't chosen to take me.

 

I couldn't get involved with the gaslighting as MMs Hs OW did, but if she was continually in his home would that have skewed her thoughts...probably. Who knows...in thinking of it maybe she felt more power over the MM every time he invited her in. He was having her cross boundaries continually...gaslighting there as well? As I said...who knows...

[skylarblue]

Sorry, but just a further point. There is a little arrogance there in your post. I experienced similar :

 

*I'm awful, no one understands me, I live outside the parameters of your reality because I'm such a f*ck up and the only people that understand me are other f*ck ups who are exciting and real like me*. Shortly followed by that whole scene not being much fun beyond the predictable sex that is just sex and not angst ridden existential whatever, which ends in tears because both parties are egos on sticks (sorry for ranting).....

 

You must have some idea why you did this / do this. I guess, because I'm not all that together myself, its something to do with self esteem right?

 

If the thread was posted 3mos ago, I would have said I loved f*cking with his W's things and I hope and don't care that she notices and would have smiled at posts saying it's awful or sick or creepy. Believe me, if my post did seem a little arrogant it was not my intent in any way.

As horrible as it is, my pleasure and interest in the A was gained by (for a lack of a better term) p*ssing wherever the W slept - every place she was, I’ve been, every thing she’s owned, I’ve touched. Seriously, I wanted to defile any and everything that was hers from her home to her birthday. Why I felt like I had to do that was definitely self-esteem related. I’ve always been honest about that. But I really don’t know why I had to f*ck with her in the process. It was wrong and I was wrong.

[OWoman]

The first time I went to their house I didn't know which room was his and which was hers, so I dragged him in to hers and started to take his clothes off... and then saw how dirty the bedding was. That kind of killed the moment... and then he mentioned that that was her room and perhaps we should use his, instead, which was a far better idea.

 

But I certainly steered clear of using any of her stuff It all looked so neglected, unloved, dirty... I didn't know what I might catch off it

 

I also helped with some cleaning and tidying around the house - the kids weren't too great on the picking up after themselves bit, and she seemed to prefer filth and squalor - but he usually did that so it's unlikely she'd have noticed.

[moaningmyrtle]

The first time I went to their house I didn't know which room was his and which was hers, so I dragged him in to hers and started to take his clothes off... and then saw how dirty the bedding was. That kind of killed the moment... and then he mentioned that that was her room and perhaps we should use his, instead, which was a far better idea.

 

But I certainly steered clear of using any of her stuff It all looked so neglected, unloved, dirty... I didn't know what I might catch off it

 

I also helped with some cleaning and tidying around the house - the kids weren't too great on the picking up after themselves bit, and she seemed to prefer filth and squalor - but he usually did that so it's unlikely she'd have noticed.

 

Oh the carefully selected words of OW can be like daggers in the backs of BWs.

 

I'm not perfect around the house, and like many, I tidy up a bit if I know I've got visitors. My H's OW was an uninvited and unwelcome interloper in my home so unlike other visitors (even unexpected ones) she was never warmly welcomed by me.

 

I wonder if she judged me so unfavorably. If she did, it says more about her than me - and none of what it says about her is good.

[pureinheart]

Oh the carefully selected words of OW can be like daggers in the backs of BWs.

 

I'm not perfect around the house, and like many, I tidy up a bit if I know I've got visitors. My H's OW was an uninvited and unwelcome interloper in my home so unlike other visitors (even unexpected ones) she was never warmly welcomed by me.

 

I wonder if she judged me so unfavorably. If she did, it says more about her than me - and none of what it says about her is good.

 

For Gods sake Moaning you were working....when one gets up, gets ready to anywhere for that matter, who cares or even thinks about straightening up, most don't have time.

 

Moaning, I am a clean freak (well not as much anymore lol) and it is just me and my son here, I am retired and when I have an appointment, even if it is later in the afternoon, I wait to clean until I get back...my son doesn't make any mess at all, it's just the animals and me and in one day this place gets IMO destroyed and I spend AT LEAST 3 hrs cleaning when I get back....you are working, it is harder, you are taking care of a H and God knows what else.

 

Not to mention all of the other stuff on your plate...your doing just fine....

Edited February 17, 2010 by pureinheart