No longer having sex after 20 years of marriage

[Toodamnpragmatic]

As soon as she started feeling "unsafe" she should have gone out and gotten a full time job. It makes zero sense to say you don't feel safe and then continue to leave yourself 100 percent financially dependent on the man you don't feel safe with.

 

She seems to feel perfectly safe accepting his unconditional financial support....

 

accepting the trips, gifts, housekeeping..... oh and the body rubs and foot massages..... Ah massages........ Your favorites mem11363;)......

[mem11363]

A massage is an acceptable consolation prize on nights when the amusement park is closed. It feels great - and it shows your partner cares enough about you to make an effort to physically please you.

 

Just my .02

 

 

 

accepting the trips, gifts, housekeeping..... oh and the body rubs and foot massages..... Ah massages........ Your favorites mem11363;)......

[Simon Attwood]

Humm... I wonder what she meant by that 'feeling unsafe".. this is very strange after 20 years.

 

OP: you need to discuss this point with her... why and what makes her feel unsafe... (unless I missed it somewhere).. if she can't answer 'clearly' you need to roll a newspaper and smack her across the head (kidding of course).... but she seriously needs to be kicked to the curb...

 

I'm afraid there is not much you can do at this point.. you've both waited waaayyy too long ... it's almost irrecoverable (if this is a word)...

 

 

Harsh Lizzie

 

nothing is irrecoverable (yes it is a word) while there is still warm blood in someone's veins, and even then there's the freezer (Have you heard Alice Cooper's "Cold Ethel"?)

 

This feeling unsafe is a big issue. Asking her why she feels unsafe may, not only be inconclusive, but even totally misleading and damaging. she may not know why she feels unsafe, and if pushed, the best she will be able to come up with would be a rationalisation to fit, and if she is unable to come up with a rationalisation, she may even invent or provoke an incident in order to give her feeling of being unsafe an explanation.

 

The question of her feelings of a lack of safety should not be approached by an unskilled spouse, but rather by a skilled existential therapist. For I believe that the true cause of her lack of a sense of her own safety in this marriage, if this has not been provoked by the spouse's behaviour, has existential roots.

[BestFriends]

Again thanks for all the input. Just to clear up a few things. I really want to save my marriage. Despite it all, sex is not the only thing in the world and I still love my wife. Even if I did not want to try to save the marriage, where I live, no sex is not a legally valid reason to leave your wife and I am not willing to give up half of everything I have worked for over the last 20 years without at least trying to work on the problems.

 

Making "date" appointments was our MC's idea not my idea of delivering an ultimatum.

 

Most importantly, the "appointment" idea was very well received by my wife even if it does not address the root cause of the problem.

 

So far it seems to be working because tonight was our first "date" night and she had candles lit,music playing, and seemed to be looking forward to the evening when I got home. Everything went great for both of us (and I am pretty observant after 20 years).

 

We will see if this continues to work until we can get to the real root of the problem with the help of professional counseling.

 

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and input from you all. I will continue to let you all know what happens.

Edited January 14, 2010 by BestFriends
typo

[Simon Attwood]

tonight was our first "date" night and she had candles lit,music playing, and seemed to be looking forward to the evening when I got home. Everything went great for both of us.

 

 

A very, very good sign. Keep it up

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Again thanks for all the input. Just to clear up a few things. I really want to save my marriage. Despite it all, sex is not the only thing in the world and I still love my wife. Even if I did not want to try to save the marriage, where I live, no sex is not a legally valid reason to leave your wife and I am not willing to give up half of everything I have worked for over the last 20 years without at least trying to work on the problems.

 

Making "date" appointments was our MC's idea not my idea of delivering an ultimatum.

 

Most importantly, the "appointment" idea was very well received by my wife even if it does not address the root cause of the problem.

 

So far it seems to be working because tonight was our first "date" night and she had candles lit,music playing, and seemed to be looking forward to the evening when I got home. Everything went great for both of us (and I am pretty observant after 20 years).

 

We will see if this continues to work until we can get to the real root of the problem with the help of professional counseling.

 

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and input from you all. I will continue to let you all know what happens.

 

"Date" appointments is perfectly fair and acceptable and generally a suggestion made in MC. As i said, think of this as dating and the expectations when you had a date with your partner, who you did not live with......

 

Getting to the heart o9f the matter however has not been done....

 

And yes sex is not the "most" important thing, certainly a very important part of a successful marriage for many.

 

I am sitting typing, watching the devastation in Haiti and realize perspective needs to be employed....

Edited January 14, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

4 dates a month is a perfectly good interim solution. It will likely encourage her to open up over time.

 

I will say this - if I were trying to reboot her desire for me I would gently insist that we change our actual sexual routine in the belief that the old routine is somewhat to blame for her losing desire to connect. So I would push hard to find out what it is she really wants more/less/different in AND out of bed. Some men do not realize how easily you can amplify/destroy desire OUT of the bedroom.

 

I routinely find a pretext for playful conflict and overpower my wife - end up pinning her too a wall or the couch. I KNOW what this does to her desire level - and it works very consistently.

 

Getting divorced is a bad solution in every sense. TDP and I also have good jobs/assets and totally grasp the pain of a divide/2 with the added cost of alimony.

 

With that said just as I would cut off my entire right arm - if it had gangrene - I would change my marital arrangement (openly take a lover) if my wife no longer loved me enough to show a minimal level of concern for MY sexual wants.

 

 

 

"Date" appointments is perfectly fair and acceptable and generally a suggestion made in MC. As i said, think of this as dating and the expectations when you had a date with your partner, who you did not live with......

 

Getting to the heart o9f the matter however has not been done....

 

And yes sex is not the "most" important thing, certainly a very important part of a successful marriage for many.

 

I am sitting typing, watching the devastation in Haiti and realize perspective needs to be employed....

[giotto]

she'll get bored of that too...

[Angel1111]

1. Provide financial stability
   
2. Give her space to be her own person, have friends, interests and hobbies
   
3. buy thoughtful gifts
   
4. Plan expensive vacations
   
5. Relieve stress by employing housekeeper (amongst others)
   
6. Spend time together, massages
   
7. Show interest in her, her fears, anxieties, dreams aspirations....
   

Want to tell me what else he can do???

 

If I had a man who went by this checklist, I think I'd kiss his butt daily.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

If I had a man who went by this checklist, I think I'd kiss his butt daily.

 

Nah...... You'd grow tired of it eventually and think it is only because he wants sex.....

[stillafool]

OP I just had a thought. Maybe your wife is entering menopause and this will decrease your sex drive. You should mention this to her and she can talk to her doctor.

[BestFriends]

OP I just had a thought. Maybe your wife is entering menopause and this will decrease your sex drive. You should mention this to her and she can talk to her doctor.

 

This is a good point "stillafool". She has been seeing a doctor about this possibility but it did start before this was an issue that could be considered. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

To all of the other interested posters. I wanted you all to know that the first date was honored and went really well (as I posted before). We actually set another date for later in the same week to try to maintain momentum (and because menstruation interrupts sexual activity for us). We also kept that "date" and it was also satisfying. The third "date" was last night and again, the "date" was kept and went well. I know it seems like a really obvious solution, but I believe one reason it is working so far is that I talked again with our counselor about my dissatisfaction and the possibility of the lack of sex ultimately ending our marriage if we did not continue to have successful "dates". This seems to have motivated her for now. We will see how it goes. It is my hope that some day these things will become more spontaneous, but in the mean time I want to thank all of your for your input.

 

I will keep you posted. Thanks again.

[OpenBook]

Humm... I wonder what she meant by that 'feeling unsafe".. this is very strange after 20 years.

 

OP: you need to discuss this point with her... why and what makes her feel unsafe...

 

I agree with Lizzie, this needs to be explored further. Unless the OP is holding something back from us - like, he is into kinky things that she isn't, or something.

 

If I had to take a wild guess, though, I'd say this "feeling unsafe" explanation is really a mask for something else - for example, she may be insinuating that she no longer views him as the strong virile Alpha Male that protects his family... something in his behavior gives her the impression that he is being too passive for a guy? (His posts strike me as an easygoing, live-and-let-live personality.) Maybe she is actually asking (in a very indirect and obtuse way) for him to buck up and take charge more. I know Tood and other posters were offering up this suggestion, and they may have a point.

 

But who knows. The only one who can answer that is her. But she needs to be more up-front and communicative about this.

 

The thing that bothers me more than the lack of sex is her seeming lack of caring about this as a serious issue that is threatening their marriage. That may be the bigger problem to overcome. How do you get somebody to CARE again??

[OpenBook]

This is a good point "stillafool". She has been seeing a doctor about this possibility but it did start before this was an issue that could be considered. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

To all of the other interested posters. I wanted you all to know that the first date was honored and went really well (as I posted before). We actually set another date for later in the same week to try to maintain momentum (and because menstruation interrupts sexual activity for us). We also kept that "date" and it was also satisfying. The third "date" was last night and again, the "date" was kept and went well. I know it seems like a really obvious solution, but I believe one reason it is working so far is that I talked again with our counselor about my dissatisfaction and the possibility of the lack of sex ultimately ending our marriage if we did not continue to have successful "dates". This seems to have motivated her for now. We will see how it goes. It is my hope that some day these things will become more spontaneous, but in the mean time I want to thank all of your for your input.

 

I will keep you posted. Thanks again.

 

And I completely missed this post. Good for you BF!!! Good luck. And I hope you keep communicating with her, so you'll know exactly how SHE'S feeling about all this, and there won't be more surprises down the road.

[mem11363]

Plastic,

I totally agree and yet feel you are only halfway there. What I mean is that I believe that BF should work towards what you describe. And I think at some point he really needs to have a tough conversation which goes like this:

 

Wife I KNOW you are putting a brave face on - it definitely feels like you are willing to have the "minimum" amount of sex needed to not divorce. Short term that is ok to restart our physical connection. But you ALSO have to start talking to me honestly/maybe painfully about what turns you on/off IN AND OUT of the bedroom. Because we NEED to get to a place where you are not having the bare minimum amount of sex with me and where divorce avoidance is not your motive.

 

I will also say - plastic - that while I actually live pretty close to what you describe I have made a lot of effort to create an environment where that is the happy result. You have to get a lot right outside the bedroom in order for a long term wife to WANT what you describe.

 

 

Best Friends,

 

I wish you the best with this. But, I really have to disagree with the approach you are taking through MC.

 

Probably what is actually needed is some rather serious behavior modification. Your wife has conditioned you (and herself) to think that having sex with you is some kind of a "reward" or benefit that you must "earn" in some manner, aside from the fact that you are married to her.

 

I.e. you must "date" her and if the "dates" go "well" (in her opinion) MAYBE you get to have sex with her.

 

This is all wrong IMO. Regular sexual relations between the partners is an obligation of and defines the marital relationship. Sex is not something "extra" that you have to "earn." Simply by virtue of being married to each other, you each have a good faith obligation to try your best to fulfill one another's sexual needs.

 

What this basically means is that: the norm of your relationship is that each and every night, you sleep together in the same bed. And each and every night, each partner accepts that he/she must be prepared to accommodate the initiation of sexual activity by the other. Now, you will not be able to do this EVERY night for various practical reasons. But what it mean is on any random night, if one of the partners desires sex, the other partner should not view that as abnormal, unwelcome, or try to lay a guilt trip on the spouse who is in the mood. Rather, both partners have an obligation to try to "get in the mood." Obviously sexual drives don't perfectly match and some days you won't both be on the same page. HOWEVER--what your situation is, is entirely different. There does not appear to be any recognition or acceptance in good faith by your spouse, that your wanting regular sex is perfectly normal, desirable, and something she should strive to encourage.

 

So let's say you go out on a "date" and for whatever reason you have a quarrel or a spat. A typical couple would go home, both would try to get over the quarrel, and then try to have "make up sex." However it sounds like your wife would use a quarrel on one of your date nights to again deny you.

 

What is the purpose of having to take your wife out on "dates"? Why does your MC believe that you have any obligation to jump through such a hoop?

 

Your MC has it backwards. What actually needs to happen is behavior modification in which your wife and you engage in physical intimacy exercises (i.e. in the bedroom) on a daily basis. The resumption of physical intimacy will stimulate positive emotions in your wife. This does not have to be intercourse. Holding each other, massages, kissing, touching, etc., for prolonged periods in the evening, in bed, together.

 

The only solution for a lack of physical intimacy is to be physically intimate.

 

You would be justified in telling your wife very simply and calmly: "Honey I am your husband. Therefore starting TONIGHT we will sleep together every night and on quite a few of those nights I expect that I will want to be physically intimate with you and have sex with you. I will do whatever I can to help you enjoy the sex as much as I intend to enjoy it, but whether you think you will enjoy it or not, we will be having sex on a regular basis. That is what married people do. Those are the rules of our relationship. If you do not think you can follow those rules, you need to move out of the house. Now let's talk about ways that you think we can have sex that you might find enjoyable and I am certainly willing to try those things with you."

[Mr White]

but I just don't no, without a significant power shift. I have fun with mem11363, but he is absolutely right here. When a spouse completely shuts down, does not offer viable reasons and really likes to hide and ignore the problem, there is a serious issue.

 

To go that long without sex and really not fight for it (and consequently your marriage), is a serious issue that has gone on too long.

 

Have you really forced the point home with the MC?

 

I hate to sound chauvanistic, but she does not work and has help at home. She should be the classic example of a "Trophy Wife" and living to that example......

 

 

There is nothing chauvinistic in this. She sits on her ass all day, does NOTHING other than geting pampered. Her only JOB is to take care of her husband (which includes being nice to him and F*CKing him on a regular basis). And, if she doesn't do her job, she should get fired .

[Toodamnpragmatic]

There is nothing chauvinistic in this. She sits on her ass all day, does NOTHING other than geting pampered. Her only JOB is to take care of her husband (which includes being nice to him and F*CKing him on a regular basis). And, if she doesn't do her job, she should get fired .

 

I'm picturing a comic strip, with her being in her "bosses" office and being told she is being "Constructively Dismissed":lmao:.