No longer having sex after 20 years of marriage

[mem11363]

Carhill,

IME when someone says something like that (don't feel safe) and it is honestly how they feel, they are willing to tell you what you have done to cause it and what you could do to help improve the situation.

 

When they say something like that that and offer no transparency or suggestions then it feels like a smokescreen. A diversion. A way to avoid saying: I do not enjoy having sex with you - in fact I dislike it.

 

I respect women - they (like men) behave in a mostly rational way over time. She is aware this behavior could disrupt the relationship. She is simply trying to minimize her risk by blameshifting in a very confusing manner.

 

In fact this particular type of blameshifting is ideal for their current circumstance. If he acts angry/frustrated/resentful towards her due to a lack of sex, she gets to swing the "I told you so" hammer. She can say "This is why I don't feel safe with you - you act threatening/angry/tense towards me".

 

I think she is brilliant. Find me a man who would come up with that particular tactic. By the way it lets her reverse everything if he starts a divorce. She gets to say - I could FEEL you distancing yourself from me, I could just tell you were going to do something bad to me/our marriage and that was why I stopped having sex with you. Since YOU are totally at fault for this divorce you should be more generous with me.

 

By the way their workloads are a bit disparate right now. He has a full time job she has the house with no kids. I want to be her.

 

 

Some tips:

 

She says 'I don't feel safe enough with you to be intimate'....

 

Reality: It doesn't matter where that came from or what the reasons are or whether or not they're valid or even that there are reasons or that the perspective is valid or reasonable. Logic does not work with emotions, IMO.

Here's some good reading

 

Welcome to LS

[Simon Attwood]

Try not to listen to the many jaded and dysfunctional suggestions that often get posted on this forum

 

for some strange reason this comment seems to have brought all the dysfunctional out of the woodwork

[carhill]

Carhill,

IME when someone says something like that (don't feel safe) and it is honestly how they feel, they are willing to tell you what you have done to cause it and what you could do to help improve the situation.

 

When they say something like that that and offer no transparency or suggestions then it feels like a smokescreen. A diversion. A way to avoid saying: I do not enjoy having sex with you - in fact I dislike it.

 

Yes, and my precise response was "I feel manipulated and that is unacceptable"

 

TBH, I don't screw around with women anymore. They get it right in their face if they deserve it. I've had enough of that cr@p. That's why my stbx is strictly business with me. I shut the rest of the cr@p down. Boundaries

 

I hope the OP finds and communicates his boundaries.

[mem11363]

Alex,

Assume that what you say is true. That means instead of acknowledging the real problem - a total lack of desire - she is LYING and blaming him for something that is a complete fabrication. This is manipulative and deceitful. As the man, he has been taught to protect - when she says she doesn't feel safe - the implied message is he is a failed protector.

 

Pretty harsh message for a guy who is providing Hawaii and hot tubs and is the sole breadwinner when you aren't even raising his kids.

 

If my wife started starving me and then blameshifting life would get strange and wild for her pretty quick.

 

If she acknowledged that SHE was the problem and then humoured me to a minimum amount of sex while she went in search of a medical treatment that would be completely fine. Which is exactly what she did two summers ago when she had a "problem".

 

 

Has she been to a doctor? Like a family physician? It's quite possible that her hormones are doing nasty things to her and that is causing her to lose all desire for sex. Maybe the sex after the gifts/vacation is because she feels she had better be able to do it then, when she feels you've put out so much monetary appreciation. (does that make sense?)

 

Women go through strange and wild things, especially during the later years (although 40s is certainly not considered later, maybe she's hitting it early). Mental therapy is one thing, but perhaps this can be looked after with some medical/drug treatment. Just a thought.

 

Don't give up! Work through this together and just imagine what the sex will be like once it starts happening

[Angel1111]

Maybe she's cheating on you. If not that, then maybe she's just bored. I mean, what don't you know about each other after 20 yrs? Yes, sometimes I do think relationships just reach their shelf life. Maybe it's because we live longer now, or maybe it's because we have so many other distractions. I'm not sure.

[mem11363]

I agree this is totally worth trying to fix. 10 to 15 very good years means something.

 

I have simply noticed that in sexless marriages the most common behavior exhibited by the low drive/zero drive spouse is deceit. And the form the deceit takes is almost universally to blame the other spouse. What is unfair about this is that the deprived spouse believes what they are told and proceed to try to "fix the problem" by fixing themselves. And the most gullible folks try ever more frantically to fix what is broken. And this is very much not a female oppressor/male victim situation. Men can be just as guilty as this when they lose or can no longer fake desire.

 

Perhaps this whole pattern of deceit is mainly motivated by fear but it is very cruel to the other spouse.

 

 

Okay, I get the whole idea that when she said she didn't feel "safe" she was taking a big bite off of his ego or sense of being a man. Bad, bad move on her part. Maybe it was a subconscious ploy - make him want her less by attacking him, that way her lack of desire could be ignored. Let me be straight by saying that I'm not into giving her an excuse or an out for her behavior. But sometimes we do things we don't mean to do.

 

The fact that they had a decent sex life for the first decade is indicative of a change somewhere. It's possible that it's extramarital, but wouldn't it be worth it to see if it's medical?

 

And just for the record, we women can be as proud as you men. Sometimes we don't want to admit that there's something wrong with our bodies. Makes us feel old or broken. Maybe she has no idea it's hormonal. That's the big things about hormones, they keep you swinging so far that you can't see where you came from.

[BestFriends]

This sounds like a classic sexual value game.

 

You're supposed to try harder, to prove her sexual value to you. when ever you pay for a holiday or buy the gifts, she feels valued and sexually attractive to you.

 

that trying harder can actually have the opposite effect and she might end up being repulsed. It's a real catch 22 situation, as these sexual value games usually are. They are dysfunctional elements that stem from primitive areas of the human brain.

 

See if you can find a relationship therapist that specialises in MCBT (Mindfulness Cognitive Behavioural Therapy), who will see you both and discuss this issue and it's core motives and provide constructive advice.

 

Try not to listen to the many jaded and dysfunctional suggestions that often get posted on this forum

Thanks for the advice. MCBT sounds like it would be a good idea.

[BestFriends]

All I can say is this is the first time that I have posted here and I am amazed/bewildered/confused and most of all encouraged by the outpouring of responses to my original message.

 

First I want to thank all of you for responding and want you all to know that I have read and carefully considered each of the responses. Even the cynical and silly ones (laughter is important too).

 

I wish I could reply to each post but I just can't keep up. We will continue to seek counseling (which we have not stopped) and will bring up the other issues that have been suggested (that seem right for me).

 

Thanks so much and I will continue read your responses and let you know how your suggestions go.

 

I may be a fool but I think we can work things out.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

All I can say is this is the first time that I have posted here and I am amazed/bewildered/confused and most of all encouraged by the outpouring of responses to my original message.

 

First I want to thank all of you for responding and want you all to know that I have read and carefully considered each of the responses. Even the cynical and silly ones (laughter is important too).

 

I wish I could reply to each post but I just can't keep up. We will continue to seek counseling (which we have not stopped) and will bring up the other issues that have been suggested (that seem right for me).

 

Thanks so much and I will continue read your responses and let you know how your suggestions go.

 

I may be a fool but I think we can work things out.

 

but I just don't no, without a significant power shift. I have fun with mem11363, but he is absolutely right here. When a spouse completely shuts down, does not offer viable reasons and really likes to hide and ignore the problem, there is a serious issue.

 

To go that long without sex and really not fight for it (and consequently your marriage), is a serious issue that has gone on too long.

 

Have you really forced the point home with the MC?

 

I hate to sound chauvanistic, but she does not work and has help at home. She should be the classic example of a "Trophy Wife" and living to that example......

[BestFriends]

but I just don't no, without a significant power shift. I have fun with mem11363, but he is absolutely right here. When a spouse completely shuts down, does not offer viable reasons and really likes to hide and ignore the problem, there is a serious issue.

 

To go that long without sex and really not fight for it (and consequently your marriage), is a serious issue that has gone on too long.

 

Have you really forced the point home with the MC?

 

I hate to sound chauvanistic, but she does not work and has help at home. She should be the classic example of a "Trophy Wife" and living to that example......

 

I have to agree that I have felt the same way many times. I basically laid it out last night that she needs to pick 4 days this month (for starters) to make appointments for sex and stick with them. I let her know if this doesn't happen we would have to address the problem differently. She acknowledged there was a problem, tried to turn it around on me, but I decided I have nothing else to lose in this department and this is something I need to be healthy and happy in our relationship and told her this is the least I would accept.

 

I will let you all know how it goes. Thanks for the advice.

[JackJack]

I understand you're at your wits end and very frustrated.

 

I have a feeling (yes I could be wrong) but having to make an appointment for sex might work against you both. If anything, it may make her resist more and hold even more resentment (that is if has has any resentment) I would think that she might feel even more pressure/obligation. However if it works and thats how you feel you can get sex from her, then I guess its whatever works.

 

No I'm not trying to discourage you from trying all things. Of course you should if you both feel this is worth saving. And while I don't have any rock solid advice for you, I would say its good you both continue on in MC, maybe some Individual counseling as well if you haven't tried that. I agree that if the appointment thing doesn't work, another approach might be needed. I really hope she comes clean soon and tells you what the real problem is.

[blair08]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound clueless, but I'm not sure I get or understand the whole making an appointment thing for sex.

 

Wouldn't that make you feel terrible to know you've been "penciled"in for your wife to be with you? Do you feel if its done by appointment she would feel more like its an obligation to keep that appointment just as it would be if she were going to the dentist or doctor?

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I understand people doing what they need to, but I don't see how that is going to help anything. Even if she were have "appointment" sex with you, it still doesn't take away from the fact there is a problem going on. I'm sure you're aware of that though.

 

So what is your back up plan just in case that doesn't work?

[hopeful1980]

In all seriousness, telling her to pick dates on the calandar to have sex with you and stick with it gives me an idea of why she said she doesn't feel safe with you. That type of appointment for sex is cold and as unromantic as it gets.

 

Her need for nonsexual connection will never be met by this arrangement and I can see how that would make her feel unsafe emotionally. I suspect she thinks you are callous and when you buy her things and show her your softer side, this is when she reciprocates. I don't think you have to buy her things to get her to have sex with you. I just think you have to make her feel the way she feels when you buy her something - loved, cherished, adored, valued. . .

 

If she keeps her appointments with you, what do you plan to do for her? Are you at least going to buy her dinner before your session? If my husband pencilled me in for sex that would make me feel like a professional and not in a good way.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound clueless, but I'm not sure I get or understand the whole making an appointment thing for sex.

 

Wouldn't that make you feel terrible to know you've been "penciled"in for your wife to be with you? Do you feel if its done by appointment she would feel more like its an obligation to keep that appointment just as it would be if she were going to the dentist or doctor?

 

I mean don't get me wrong, I understand people doing what they need to, but I don't see how that is going to help anything. Even if she were have "appointment" sex with you, it still doesn't take away from the fact there is a problem going on. I'm sure you're aware of that though.

 

So what is your back up plan just in case that doesn't work?

 

I hope the point is sex 4X's a month, (i.e. weekly)..... It does not need to be "pencilled" in..... what it needs is to be had.... Do you not make a date with someone? If this is a boyfriend/girlfriend and you do not live together, does the date represent the night you will, barring something coming up having sex?????

 

Sounds terrible, but it is a fact, that when you are with someone (dating) and not seeing them every day, well when you do, sex often will happen.....

 

I'd like to ask Bestfriends what his wife is saying to try and turn this on him? What has she gotten out of therapy or been honest about? Why does she not realize the severity of this issue? Does she think all is okay and that it is your problem? Why is she not working? I see no issue that she does not work, but is she then involved in activities, hobbies, working out and being as I said not trying to sound derogatory being a "trophy" Wife?????

 

Stand your ground and be forceful in your MC and let her know what you want..... Heck there are no kids and she does not bring monetary benefits to your "Partnership".....

Edited January 13, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Toodamnpragmatic]

In all seriousness, telling her to pick dates on the calandar to have sex with you and stick with it gives me an idea of why she said she doesn't feel safe with you. That type of appointment for sex is cold and as unromantic as it gets.

 

Her need for nonsexual connection will never be met by this arrangement and I can see how that would make her feel unsafe emotionally. I suspect she thinks you are callous and when you buy her things and show her your softer side, this is when she reciprocates. I don't think you have to buy her things to get her to have sex with you. I just think you have to make her feel the way she feels when you buy her something - loved, cherished, adored, valued. . .

 

If she keeps her appointments with you, what do you plan to do for her? Are you at least going to buy her dinner before your session? If my husband pencilled me in for sex that would make me feel like a professional and not in a good way.

 

How about an answer and not reinforcing why a female would not find him safe????? She has told him absolutely nothing with her evasive answer.... He has put her on a pedestal, spends time, is romantic (massages), looks after her, and pays for 100%..... And she responds with psycho-babble..... and then a female tells him that he is off base to "pencil" in sex.... Sheesh, there is no winning whatsoever....

[blair08]

Todd I'm sorry you feel I was taking this to literally...I was addressing the OP with my 2 cents just as others have, but thanks.

 

BTW when you said "Again a female disparaging a male."

 

There were men on here that have said some of the same things some of the women on here have said as well.

Edited January 13, 2010 by blair08

[stillafool]

I have read so many posts here about this but they don't seem to pertain to me exactly.

 

My wife and I have been married for 20 years and have no children on which to blame lack of sex.

 

I work outside of the house as the primary bread winner and she does not; so tired from work doesn't cut it either (and no, I don't lord this over her). We have a house keeper so she is not tired from maintaining the house (I would not think). The only time we have sex is if we are on an expensive vacation (Like Hawaii) or if I buy her an expensive gift (a hot tub was good for one time).

 

I try to be understanding and not pressure her. I try to make her feel loved and cared for and I try to not attach strings to any of my actions. We have seen a psychiatrist about this to no avail.

 

Is she simply no longer interested in me? I cannot imagine being without her but is it time to move on?

 

Sex is not the most important thing in the world to me, but more than once a year would be nice. We are both in our mid 40's so we are physically able and she says she really enjoys it when we have sex which really confuses me.

 

I have read book after book, post after post, and nothing seems to help in the least.

 

Any ideas other than those I have read 1,000 times would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

IMHO I would tell her that if your sex lives don't improve and soon, you are willing to walk away from this marriage. Be firm with her and see if she gets the point. This will mean she will have to go back to work and her life won't be anything like it is now. Be firm with her and don't pussyfoot around with what you want. Be strong and take charge of what you want and she will respect your more thus giving you more sex.

[hopeful1980]

How about an answer and not reinforcing why a female would not find him safe????? She has told him absolutely nothing with her evasive answer.... He has put her on a pedestal, spends time, is romantic (massages), looks after her, and pays for 100%..... And she responds with psycho-babble..... and then a female tells him that he is off base to "pencil" in sex.... Sheesh, there is no winning whatsoever....

 

You don't get it. It doesn't matter how much he pays for her. If she doesn't feel connected to him on a nonsexual level she will not be attracted to him sexually. Her not feeling safe with him is the key to solving this dilemma and she told him what is wrong. If he chooses not to listen to her and continue to do things his way (making standing appointments for sex) it will not go well.

 

You get angry when what you are doing isn't working and you have to try a method in which you may not be comfortable or familiar. You want to win by doing the things that come easy to you. There is a way to win, but you don't want to go down that route for whatever reason and you get upset when others try to find an alternate route to finding the solution. Have it your way and see how far that gets you Tood.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You don't get it. It doesn't matter how much he pays for her. If she doesn't feel connected to him on a nonsexual level she will not be attracted to him sexually. Her not feeling safe with him is the key to solving this dilemma and she told him what is wrong. If he chooses not to listen to her and continue to do things his way (making standing appointments for sex) it will not go well.

 

You get angry when what you are doing isn't working and you have to try a method in which you may not be comfortable or familiar. You want to win by doing the things that come easy to you. There is a way to win, but you don't want to go down that route for whatever reason and you get upset when others try to find an alternate route to finding the solution. Have it your way and see how far that gets you Tood.

 

What the heck does "not feeling safe" after 20 years mean!!!!! I am way too thick as are many males I think....... He has gone above and beyond on a non-sexual basis, if you believe what he has posted (and why wouldn't you, you don't know him and neither do I?).....

 

This is a classic female (and I am being blunt saying female) argument/repose as to what one needs to do..... There is no answer according to you, leaving us men to grasp at straws to do something to "win" her back.....

 

You read the OP, tell me what has he done or should do, based solely on the OP to have a "regular" sex life? Or do we throw our hands up and all agree with Lizzie that she is absolutely right and she has a lover already, it is not aboput sex, it is sex with him and it is all over????

[hopeful1980]

What the heck does "not feeling safe" after 20 years mean!!!!! I am way too thick as are many males I think....... He has gone above and beyond on a non-sexual basis, if you believe what he has posted (and why wouldn't you, you don't know him and neither do I?).....

 

This is a classic female (and I am being blunt saying female) argument/repose as to what one needs to do..... There is no answer according to you, leaving us men to grasp at straws to do something to "win" her back.....

 

You read the OP, tell me what has he done or should do, based solely on the OP to have a "regular" sex life? Or do we throw our hands up and all agree with Lizzie that she is absolutely right and she has a lover already, it is not aboput sex, it is sex with him and it is all over????

 

So time creates a feeling of security in a woman? That is so obtuse. You are like my husband who thinks proximity creates a feeling of closness. Get a clue, why don't you?

 

Maybe it is hard for you to believe, but safety is not just a physical matter. She may feel unsafe with her heart/emotions. She may have tried to connect with him many times only to be brushed off as unimportant and that may have made her withdraw.

 

Hey, I'm not saying she's right to stop having sex with her husband. I don't think that's ever the right answer. But as a woman I do understand how once your emotions are guarded, you begin to guard your body too. It's instinctual. When I feel open, I'm more likely to give myself openly to my husband. When I feel closed off from him for whatever reason, I instinctively want to close my legs as well. If he can't or won't attempt to penetrate my mind/heart, then it's unlikely I will want for him to penetrate my body. It's as simple as that and I do not think that is a vague answer.

 

The OP needs to reconnect with his wife in more than just a physical way. I know it's easier for men to be more loving when they are getting sex regularly so these two are at a stalemate.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So time creates a feeling of security in a woman? That is so obtuse. You are like my husband who thinks proximity creates a feeling of closness. Get a clue, why don't you?

 

Maybe it is hard for you to believe, but safety is not just a physical matter. She may feel unsafe with her heart/emotions. She may have tried to connect with him many times only to be brushed off as unimportant and that may have made her withdraw.

 

Hey, I'm not saying she's right to stop having sex with her husband. I don't think that's ever the right answer. But as a woman I do understand how once your emotions are guarded, you begin to guard your body too. It's instinctual. When I feel open, I'm more likely to give myself openly to my husband. When I feel closed off from him for whatever reason, I instinctively want to close my legs as well. If he can't or won't attempt to penetrate my mind/heart, then it's unlikely I will want for him to penetrate my body. It's as simple as that and I do not think that is a vague answer.

 

The OP needs to reconnect with his wife in more than just a physical way. I know it's easier for men to be more loving when they are getting sex regularly so these two are at a stalemate.

 

 

1. Provide financial stability
   
2. Give her space to be her own person, have friends, interests and hobbies
   
3. buy thoughtful gifts
   
4. Plan expensive vacations
   
5. Relieve stress by employing housekeeper (amongst others)
   
6. Spend time together, massages
   
7. Show interest in her, her fears, anxieties, dreams aspirations....
   

Want to tell me what else he can do???

[Lizzie60]

Humm... I wonder what she meant by that 'feeling unsafe".. this is very strange after 20 years.

 

OP: you need to discuss this point with her... why and what makes her feel unsafe... (unless I missed it somewhere).. if she can't answer 'clearly' you need to roll a newspaper and smack her across the head (kidding of course).... but she seriously needs to be kicked to the curb...

 

I'm afraid there is not much you can do at this point.. you've both waited waaayyy too long ... it's almost irrecoverable (if this is a word)...

[hopeful1980]

1. Provide financial stability
   
2. Give her space to be her own person, have friends, interests and hobbies
   
3. buy thoughtful gifts
   
4. Plan expensive vacations
   
5. Relieve stress by employing housekeeper (amongst others)
   
6. Spend time together, massages
   
7. Show interest in her, her fears, anxieties, dreams aspirations....
   

Want to tell me what else he can do???

 

I like you Tood. You remind me of my husband in so many ways.

 

I was just having a conversation with my good friend who just got married in August. Her husband was frustrated because he says he tries to make her happy (in many of the same ways you listed) and she doesn't ever seem happy.

 

She then explained to him that she tells him specifically how to make her happy but he ignores her and gives her what he thinks she should want. I think this is a common trap married people fall into - men and woman.

 

I don't know his wife. Obviously she is missing something that he isn't giving her that has caused her to withdraw from sex. Maybe it's not even him, but her own health issue. Who knows? All I know is pointing out all the things you do right isn't pinpointing the one thing that is wrong. Whenever women do this when a man complains about lack of sex, men pounce on her telling her that all those other things she does are nice but that they are missing out on the #1 way in which they feel loved. The same is true here. Obviously, this woman needs to feel safe to feel loved not all the things that are listed.

[mem11363]

Hopeful,

You seem to be missing the point. She has gone totally sexless on him and attacks him with vague accusations. I "don't feel safe" is a huge thing to say to a man. It is totally different then specific statements such as those below:

 

- We have talked about your repeated flirting with other women and it makes me wonder if you really love me.

- We have talked about how you stare at other women when we are out and how that makes me feel unattractive.

- We have talked about how you tune me out when I try to talk to you. It makes me feel you don't listen/care about me or love me and you do it all the time.

 

Those statements refer to specific behaviors. I infer the utter lack of such behavior because IF IT WAS THERE she would tell him specifically what he was doing wrong. It isn't. And she feels plenty safe. She simply does not want to have sex and does not want to tell him that she lacks desire for him AND she does not seem to want to work on that problem TOGETHER.

 

If my wife who I love more then anyone in the world lost all desire for me - she would need to do a few things:

- She would sadly have to tell me - and she better seem pretty sad about it when she did and a bit concerned

- She would have to commit to trying to find a way to reboot her desire and I would promise to help her

- WE WOULD JOINTLY agree to a minimum amount of sex that I could tolerate. And I would be humane about this and SHE would be humane about this. And I would also ask for a certain amount of substitute behaviors like a few long full body massages a week. And I know she would do all that as would I were the situation reversed.

 

This is all under the heading of being a decent partner. It doesn't make you a saint.

 

But losing desire and lying / attacking your partner. Very ugly and astonishingly common.

 

 

In all seriousness, telling her to pick dates on the calandar to have sex with you and stick with it gives me an idea of why she said she doesn't feel safe with you. That type of appointment for sex is cold and as unromantic as it gets.

 

Her need for nonsexual connection will never be met by this arrangement and I can see how that would make her feel unsafe emotionally. I suspect she thinks you are callous and when you buy her things and show her your softer side, this is when she reciprocates. I don't think you have to buy her things to get her to have sex with you. I just think you have to make her feel the way she feels when you buy her something - loved, cherished, adored, valued. . .

 

If she keeps her appointments with you, what do you plan to do for her? Are you at least going to buy her dinner before your session? If my husband pencilled me in for sex that would make me feel like a professional and not in a good way.

Edited January 13, 2010 by mem11363

[mem11363]

As soon as she started feeling "unsafe" she should have gone out and gotten a full time job. It makes zero sense to say you don't feel safe and then continue to leave yourself 100 percent financially dependent on the man you don't feel safe with.

 

She seems to feel perfectly safe accepting his unconditional financial support....

 

 

 

I like you Tood. You remind me of my husband in so many ways.

 

I was just having a conversation with my good friend who just got married in August. Her husband was frustrated because he says he tries to make her happy (in many of the same ways you listed) and she doesn't ever seem happy.

 

She then explained to him that she tells him specifically how to make her happy but he ignores her and gives her what he thinks she should want. I think this is a common trap married people fall into - men and woman.

 

I don't know his wife. Obviously she is missing something that he isn't giving her that has caused her to withdraw from sex. Maybe it's not even him, but her own health issue. Who knows? All I know is pointing out all the things you do right isn't pinpointing the one thing that is wrong. Whenever women do this when a man complains about lack of sex, men pounce on her telling her that all those other things she does are nice but that they are missing out on the #1 way in which they feel loved. The same is true here. Obviously, this woman needs to feel safe to feel loved not all the things that are listed.