Why is there such a lack of understanding towards BSs?

[Spark1111]

I find it amazing that so many OM/OW do not understand that when a BS attempts to reconcile with a WS, it must be because we:

 

a) need the security and status quo

 

b) pay check

 

c) provider and parent for the children

 

d) don't want to be alone

 

e) turn a blind eye to the affair, thereby proving we REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT LOVE AND PASSION AND OUR SPOUSE

 

Look, in his confusion, I now know the many lies he told her too. Not intentionally. At the time of his affair I know he really cared for her; thought of leaving me to be with her; and has remorse NOW for the way he lead two women on.

 

But I can also assert that for me personally, nothing has been harder or more painful than trying to reconcile our relationship after this devastating betrayal, and the continued contact between the two of them for a few months after DDAY, and the crying and begging at both of our kitchen tables, hers and mine during those months.

 

So WE ALL KNOW, he had to minimize the marriage to enter the affair, and then he had to minimize the affair to re-enter the marriage.

 

I get it! By why, years and months later, do so many APs think their former MM or MW SETTLED FOR THEIR SPOUSE?????

 

And what makes them think the spouse settled for their MW/MM????

 

We WERE/OR STILL are in love with the same person; with all their faults, confusion, deceptions and subsequent heartaches.

 

Is it just easier for the OW/OM to continue to think so less of the spouse, or that the MM/MW settled to return home to his obligations?

 

Or do they continue to believe, like the holy grail, the picture painted of the marriage during the affair?

 

That is so limiting, IMO.

 

I did not/will not believe all the minimizing he HAS tried to do of the affair. I've known him a long time and know instintively when he tries to do this to protect his own azz from my wrath.

 

Don't they realize the same was probably done to them? That the marriage was minimized to them?

 

Sheesh. I don't get it.

 

Any thoughts?

[quankanne]

more like bitterness when they understand they're pretty much just something to be used for his entertainment, while the wife is the one who legitimately recognized as his partner.

[anne1707]

Spark

 

As a former WS, it frustrates me too when I get accused of "settling" with my H. According to some, it is as if no love can ever compare to the love between a WS and the OW/OM. Yet if that was the case then why do so many WS remain in the marriage?

 

I know I have not settled. I know what I have with my H is real and lasting love. Our marriage is not the same as it was - it never will be - but just because it is different, does not mean it is bad.

 

I never wanted to end my marriage because I love my H. My H (thankfully) chose to give me another chance because he loves me. It was absolutely nothing to do with being scared of change, financial reasons or being alone. I think it is fair to say that when my H found out about the affair, in his view he had lost everything anyway - he had no thoughts of staying together for the wrong reasons.

[bentnotbroken]

I understand what you are trying to say Spark. I must admit that I don't care what is thought of me. I am like anyone else and I would prefer to be in a comfortable situation, but it really doesn't effect my life everyday. I enjoy a good debate.

 

There are some great people here. Some of them are came here as ow/om. Some still are some aren't. They have been kind, encouraging and I do care about their well being ( you guys know who you are). There are people who have been neither and we laugh together and share (you guys know who you are). There are some who are no longer here and I wonder about and pray their lives are going well....Athena, Gwyn, Chia, NS7, Taylor. I guess what I am trying to say is do what you can for those who want it. Those who don't, let it go. It is a public forum, posters take what they can use and what they can't let it go.

 

((((spark)))))

[Spark1111]

Bitterness because they didn't "win" their AP perhaps? Who knows?

 

 

Okay, but it could have gone the other way Donna. What if he had chosen her????? Hell, that what I thought he was going to do.

 

Would I still be bitter today? Would I assume he had gone backwards, not forwards? Would I asssume she knew everything about me and our relationship?

 

That he had told her the complete truth?

 

I don't thinks so. I definitely lived his confusion. She did too.

 

If he had chosen so poorly the first time (me) why would she think he had chosen better with her?

 

I think our choices in life help to define us, and tell others who we are.

[Spark1111]

more like bitterness when they understand they're pretty much just something to be used for his entertainment, while the wife is the one who legitimately recognized as his partner.

 

Did he use her? Okay, ultimately yes. But I know he had real feelings for her at one time.

 

Why is so hard to understand he also had real feelings for me too?

[Spark1111]

Spark

 

As a former WS, it frustrates me too when I get accused of "settling" with my H. According to some, it is as if no love can ever compare to the love between a WS and the OW/OM. Yet if that was the case then why do so many WS remain in the marriage?

 

I know I have not settled. I know what I have with my H is real and lasting love. Our marriage is not the same as it was - it never will be - but just because it is different, does not mean it is bad.

 

I never wanted to end my marriage because I love my H. My H (thankfully) chose to give me another chance because he loves me. It was absolutely nothing to do with being scared of change, financial reasons or being alone. I think it is fair to say that when my H found out about the affair, in his view he had lost everything anyway - he had no thoughts of staying together for the wrong reasons.

 

Anne, you are my Ws and I am your H!

 

I felt exactly as your husband did. Without love reciprocated, I mean what is the point?

 

Even in all my pain, I told him if that's what you want, go be with her.

 

No one was more stunned than I when he ended it and began pursuing me.

 

I only had empathy in my heart for her. I even spoke how devastated she must be, and how cowardly on his part to continue to lead her on.

 

I have a hard time wondering why that empathy is so rarely reciprocated by so many on the other forum.

 

Often, I grow weary of how competitive it becomes. Why is that?

[Spark1111]

I understand what you are trying to say Spark. I must admit that I don't care what is thought of me. I am like anyone else and I would prefer to be in a comfortable situation, but it really doesn't effect my life everyday. I enjoy a good debate.

 

There are some great people here. Some of them are came here as ow/om. Some still are some aren't. They have been kind, encouraging and I do care about their well being ( you guys know who you are). There are people who have been neither and we laugh together and share (you guys know who you are). There are some who are no longer here and I wonder about and pray their lives are going well....Athena, Gwyn, Chia, NS7, Taylor. I guess what I am trying to say is do what you can for those who want it. Those who don't, let it go. It is a public forum, posters take what they can use and what they can't let it go.

 

((((spark)))))

 

Bent, I so agree. But I just think people get stuck in the us against them mentality, and that so limits true healing, IMO.

 

BS bash OW, OW bash BS, everyone, at one point or another, takes a shot at the MM/MW.

 

We all have our values, our moral system, our judgements, our opinions and our weaknesses. That is humanity.

 

I guess I am often surprised that I, who have really tried to understand and empathize with the plight of the OW/OM, rarely find that sentiment returned.

 

Is that a necessary ingredient to the affair dynamic? That the OW/OM must in some way convince themselves they are superior to the spouse, because otherwise why is the MM/MW having an affair with me in the first place?

 

Based on what?

[eeyore1981]

I'm with Bent. Couldn't care less what OM/OW or WS think of me.

 

Here's my opinion.

 

Your H and my H were not faithful to us. BUT, we didn't know, and when we found out, we were hurt, angry, questioning if we wanted to continue in a relationship like that, etc.

 

When a person gets involved with someone they KNOW is married, they not only accept the person they got involved with is unfaithful to them, they agree to it. However they justify it, by villifying the BS, and/or ignoring certain aspects of the married person, the bottom line is, they knowingly and willingly go into a relationship where they are not the top priority, they are not number one, and they are put on hold for when the married person can find time for them.

 

I've seen a few women state they deliberately go after MM because they want a no-strings-attached relationship. Huh? I realize I have been married for over half my life, but back in the olden days we called that dating, and we did it with single people. Maybe I'm out of touch?

 

I just feel like most of these people use whatever they can to maintain their denial so they don't have to admit they have some serious issues going on.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

in my situation ive never once viewed it as settling for her. he always made it clear she was the priority as i did my H. things changed a bit after day but hes clearly not settling one bit.

 

i think my situation, the questions i ask are because i truly want to hear opinions, thoughts etc from BS. because, when i have questions i cannot ask him and get a reliable answer, i sure as heck cant ask her. and some things i can ask my H but other things i think shouldnt be asked of him.

 

so i find all of this terribly confusing. I dont understand it. I'm trying to process it all. And when I (although I cannot speak for anyone else) ask questions about her its because there are people on this board who have "been there, done that" and hopefully can provide some insight.

 

just like hopefully i can give it to them when they question the actions of an OW/OM.

[Lizzie60]

As an OW.. I can understand why a BS would stay with her SO... for all the reasons you posted...

 

a) need the security and status quo

 

b) pay check

 

c) provider and parent for the children

 

d) don't want to be alone

 

e) turn a blind eye to the affair, thereby proving we REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT LOVE AND PASSION AND OUR SPOUSE

 

Where I don't agree is when a BS.. says that their WS loves them more than the OP.. that they don't love the OP... that the WS is ready to work on the M, after numerous affairs.. I say bull*

 

I know that in some cases, the M can be saved.. but it would IMO have to be a one night A, or a very short A..

 

I should also add that, if there is no children involved.. I would find it very SAD for a BS to turn a blind eye.. just because they don't want to be alone... or for the paycheck..or the security... really..

[silverplanets]

From my experience as an OM I see reasons for her staying in two categories ...

 

1) all the "external" reasons that are mentioned above

2) because "in her heart" she really wants to

 

It's less painful for me if its in the first category because it means I can believe she still loves me, if it's number 2 though then I don't get to hide behind that belief any more.

 

Accepting that she loves him and really DOES want to be with him means I really have been rejected and I can no longer "romanticise" the whole thing.

 

When I accepted that is was probably in the second category I couldn't hide in denial any more and had to deal with it.

 

Not sure if this helps but it would be my answer to the question based on my experience in that role.

 

Chris

[hopesndreams]

Rationalizing...it's the only way they can live with themselves.

 

It's what the BS and OW/OM have in common.

[Spark1111]

I'm with Bent. Couldn't care less what OM/OW or WS think of me.

 

Here's my opinion.

 

Your H and my H were not faithful to us. BUT, we didn't know, and when we found out, we were hurt, angry, questioning if we wanted to continue in a relationship like that, etc.

 

When a person gets involved with someone they KNOW is married, they not only accept the person they got involved with is unfaithful to them, they agree to it. However they justify it, by villifying the BS, and/or ignoring certain aspects of the married person, the bottom line is, they knowingly and willingly go into a relationship where they are not the top priority, they are not number one, and they are put on hold for when the married person can find time for them.

 

I've seen a few women state they deliberately go after MM because they want a no-strings-attached relationship. Huh? I realize I have been married for over half my life, but back in the olden days we called that dating, and we did it with single people. Maybe I'm out of touch?

 

I just feel like most of these people use whatever they can to maintain their denial so they don't have to admit they have some serious issues going on.

 

Yes, I agree that if you do not want to be married, then don't be. Don't cheat. Don't waffle. Don't sneak around.

 

But that's me. I have always owned my choices, my happiness, my unhappiness. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones.

 

And yes, there is a leap that must be taken to fall hard for a MM/MW, knowing the scenario one is getting involved in, despite the gaslighting or lies being told, or whatever to get that affair dynamic going.

 

Yes, the riskiness of the behavior and the knowledge of the potential fallout is something I believe is NOT considered until many of these people are in way too deep.

 

And what is NOT considered as they fall down the slippery slope does leave me scratching my head.

 

But still, I try to understand it.

 

If a man was attracted to me while married, I would have to assume I have more in common with the spouse than even he lets on, because he once, was attracted to her!

 

My husband likes smart women. OW and I are both smart and accomplished. I knew that immediately about her! She was stunned to discover that about me.....Why?

[Spark1111]

in my situation ive never once viewed it as settling for her. he always made it clear she was the priority as i did my H. things changed a bit after day but hes clearly not settling one bit.

 

i think my situation, the questions i ask are because i truly want to hear opinions, thoughts etc from BS. because, when i have questions i cannot ask him and get a reliable answer, i sure as heck cant ask her. and some things i can ask my H but other things i think shouldnt be asked of him.

 

so i find all of this terribly confusing. I dont understand it. I'm trying to process it all. And when I (although I cannot speak for anyone else) ask questions about her its because there are people on this board who have "been there, done that" and hopefully can provide some insight.

 

just like hopefully i can give it to them when they question the actions of an OW/OM.

 

And I think that is the beauty of this forum, MBEG!

 

I too, had a million questions for her, but I never got any satisfaction from her in my attempts to contact her. I never felt I got too many reliable answers from him either!

 

And I remain amazed at what she didn't ask me regarding any of it! DDay, reconciliation, betrayal, nothing.

 

Why? Because I do not believe she wanted to know the truth. And I'm not talking the competitive rant "he chose me," "I'm better," blah, blah, blah.

 

I had to have the truth, as painful as it was, to even consider if I had the strength or inclination, or love necessary to reconcile.

 

I think, she prefers to be in denial; to think he returned for obligation.

 

Here's the truth in my sitch: We both loved a confused, unhappy man who did not KNOW WHAT he wanted. He just wanted both of us to fill a bottomless pit of need within himself. A truly selfish act.

 

It wasn't about love, or sex, or whatever. I think it is about CONFUSION and some great hormones.

[Spark1111]

From my experience as an OM I see reasons for her staying in two categories ...

 

1) all the "external" reasons that are mentioned above

2) because "in her heart" she really wants to

 

It's less painful for me if its in the first category because it means I can believe she still loves me, if it's number 2 though then I don't get to hide behind that belief any more.

 

Accepting that she loves him and really DOES want to be with him means I really have been rejected and I can no longer "romanticise" the whole thing.

 

When I accepted that is was probably in the second category I couldn't hide in denial any more and had to deal with it.

 

Not sure if this helps but it would be my answer to the question based on my experience in that role.

 

Chris

 

And I get this. Who wants to think the AP made a decision based on love? It is so much more romantic to think they stayed out of obligation.

 

But what did you think of him during and after the affair? Did you have to convince yourself she "settled." That you were the better choice? Kinder? Smarter? Stronger? More attentive?

[Spark1111]

As an OW.. I can understand why a BS would stay with her SO... for all the reasons you posted...

 

a) need the security and status quo

 

b) pay check

 

c) provider and parent for the children

 

d) don't want to be alone

 

e) turn a blind eye to the affair, thereby proving we REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT LOVE AND PASSION AND OUR SPOUSE

 

Where I don't agree is when a BS.. says that their WS loves them more than the OP.. that they don't love the OP... that the WS is ready to work on the M, after numerous affairs.. I say bull*

 

I know that in some cases, the M can be saved.. but it would IMO have to be a one night A, or a very short A..

 

I should also add that, if there is no children involved.. I would find it very SAD for a BS to turn a blind eye.. just because they don't want to be alone... or for the paycheck..or the security... really..

 

But Lizzie, just as he falls in and then out of love with his spouse, why is it such a stretch to believe he could fall in and out of love with his OW?

Just as his feelings changed long enough to enter the affair, now they have changed back?

 

If I have to accept he developed feelings for his affair partner, why do so many NOT accept that he has now again developed feelings for the spouse?

 

That he or she is settling back into the marriage. That may be true in some cases, but certainly not all.

[anne1707]

And I get this. Who wants to think the AP made a decision based on love? It is so much more romantic to think they stayed out of obligation.

 

But what did you think of him during and after the affair? Did you have to convince yourself she "settled." That you were the better choice? Kinder? Smarter? Stronger? More attentive?

 

 

I know that in my situation, the ex-OM made comments which implied he thought I was "settling" - that what he could offer me was so much more. I actually refused to criticise my H to him during the affair in spite his pushing for such behaviour yet he made his own mind up about how much better he was compared to my H. Can't say I agreed with him.

[silktricks]

Let's see if I can actually get written down what I think here.

 

First, of course, only SOME OW/OM believe the BS and/or WS "settled" when they chose to remain married. So, I don't want anything I say in "shorthand" below to imply that I mean all of anyone.... Also, please keep in mind that this MY OPINION and MY OPINION only. I do not claim to be godlike and have actual knowledge of the interior workings of anyone's mind.

 

OK... that said:

 

I didn't stay with my WH because of the 5 things you listed (and Spark, I think if you go back and re-read what you wrote, you'll find that you mis-typed the first line. I think you meant that OP BELIEVE BS stay for those reasons, not that we actually do...) Anyway, I digress.

 

The OP has been told REPEATEDLY that the MP is deeply in love with THEM, and no longer has ANY love for their spouse. Repeatedly. They have also often been told REPEATEDLY that the spouse is not in love with the MP. Examples have usually been given to illustrate the point. (and as we all know, there OFTEN can be examples provided showing lack of love - everybody screws up, and when in a troubled marriage there are ALWAYS some bad things going on.) AND the OP usually IS truly deeply in love with the MP, or at least with their idea of who/what the OP is.

 

Then, D-Day strikes and sometimes that day, sometimes shortly after that day and not always, but often (usually?), the wayward spouse returns home to spouse. At that point the WS is telling the BS that everything with the OP was "nothing", the exact same thing (basically) they were telling the OP previously.

 

So... the OP who has been left can now do what? They can

1. believe the MP has been lying to them from day one, with the corrollary that they (the OP) is unable to tell truth from lie

2. believe the MP has been telling them the truth from day one, with the corrollary that the BS is a complete bucket of **** (practically)

3. believe the MP has changed his mind - but why WOULD he if he had been telling the truth (see number 1)

4. believe the MP is a really messed up person, with the corrollary that the OP is either attracted to really messed up people, or cannot tell the difference.

 

Number 2 is the easiest to swallow, and has zero personal issues. The issues are all those of the MP and BS. No self examination is required.

 

If number 2 (the BS is a bucket of ****) is the choice, then the corrollary is that they took the MP back for the paycheck, because they don't want to be alone, because they don't even know what love is, etc, etc, etc.

 

For the OP, though, the reason the MP went back is slightly different... the OP loves this person, so he cannot be a complete bucket of.... he went back out of duty or for the children or for some other completely selfless reason that fits with the ideal of the MP as a martyr, the BS as a bucket, and the OP as the victim.

 

Anyway, that's my view of that particular situation in a nutshell. (I've also got some pretty spiffy ideas about the BS and the MP, so please don't take too much offense OP's)

Edited January 8, 2010 by silktricks

[Lizzie60]

But Lizzie, just as he falls in and then out of love with his spouse, why is it such a stretch to believe he could fall in and out of love with his OW?

Just as his feelings changed long enough to enter the affair, now they have changed back?

 

If I have to accept he developed feelings for his affair partner, why do so many NOT accept that he has now again developed feelings for the spouse?

 

That he or she is settling back into the marriage. That may be true in some cases, but certainly not all.

 

I, on purpose, specified that I was talking about serial cheaters... If a man constantly cheat on his W... he doesn't love her... and probably doesn't love any of his OWs..

 

In the case where the A was short-term or a ONS.. then yes... I would believe that he still loves his W very much...

 

There are tons of reasons why a spouse cheats.. but in the end.. all the reasons are the same for all...

[Spark1111]

Oh, silk, I know this scenario very well!

 

I lived it, owned and still work to overcome it!

 

I, as a betrayed spouse, also love the MM. He's my husband.

 

I could sit here and trash the OW as some predatory spouse stealer, but C'MON! It take two.....

 

So, why, at some point, can't we agree....he lied to both of us, including himself, in his confusion!

 

She's not the bucketof***t!

 

I'm not the bucketof***t!

 

MAYBE, just maybe, at the moment in time, he's the confused lyingsackof***T!

 

And if he is not, what the hell is he doing here????

[jennie-jennie]

The excerpt I posted last fall from sociology professor Francesco Alberoni's book Sex and Love seems to back up the OW's view on this subject in my opinion:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t198627/

[silktricks]

Oh, silk, I know this scenario very well!

 

She's not the bucketof***t!

 

I'm not the bucketof***t!

 

MAYBE, just maybe, at the moment in time, he's the confused lyingsackof***T!

 

And if he is not, what the hell is he doing here????

In other words all of us, WS, BS and OW are human and all of us make human mistakes

[Spark1111]

The excerpt I posted last fall from sociology professor Francesco Alberoni's book Sex and Love seems to back up the OW's view on this subject in my opinion:

 

www.loveshack.org/forums/t198627/

 

Jennie, yes, Alberoni makes some very valid points regarding altruistic versus selfish reasons for denying oneself true love.

 

But I guarantee you, he did not speak, nor interview many BSs when he furnished his opinions.

 

It it NOT the development of strong, romantic feelings for another that ultimately crushes the spirit. That hurts the ego.

 

It is the lying and deception two people must engage in to continue in secrecy the clandestine relationship, that crushes the BSs spirit.

 

The lying and deception, done in an effort to protect the unkowing spouse and family, is the very thing that destroys it, destroys all trust and respect for the WS, IMO. The majority of BSs will agree, that is ten times harder to overcome the deception and secrecy, than the fact that your spouse developed romantic feelings for another.

 

The deception protects the WS from the emotional fallout from their actions, NOT THE SPOUSE OR THE FAMILY.

 

And their is nothing good or true or altruistic about that.

[Spark1111]

In other words all of us, WS, BS and OW are human and all of us make human mistakes

 

Yes, exactly. And the goal to reach true understanding of the situation, in my opinion, necessitates a certain open-mindedness regarding the motivations of ALL parties involved.

 

I didn't settle for him. I would not ALLOW him to settle for me.

 

In fact, I probably made his life a living hell for a very long time. He had to PROVE over and over that I was not his default choice.I had a bag packed and a foot out the door for a very, very long time.

 

I think often, when telling the OW that they are leaving to re-commit to the marriage, the children, blah, blah, blah, they are trying to spare both the AP and THEMSELVES the enormity of the deception they have perpetrated.

 

They are letting themselves down easy. It is one more act of self-preservation.