Taramere Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Anything said or written by an individual is really just a report of perceptions of that person, thereby rendering it (potentially) as much an illusion as anything else, depending on how you conceptualize these things. Substance is the same, depends how you conceptualize it. Sorry, off topic, just thought I'd add my thoughts there That's very equitable, torranceshipman.
Taramere Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Taramere, Do you work in academia? I worked in litigation for a long time. Academia wouldn't be my thing. Half the employment cases I've read seem to involve academics bickering at eachother. The collegiate environment seems to breed it. For all tv programmes and films portray lawyers as postulating dramatically in court, that kind of thing is likely to get shot down in flames by a real life judge....which is why I get dubious when someone's claiming to be a legal hotshot, but is arguing more like an overly enthusiastic party litigant. Judges will let lawers get away with the odd sarcastic aside, but that's about it. Young lawyers who walk in thinking they're going to be Perry Mason are likely to walk out of court in tears after one appearance, vowing off courtwork for life. Judges don't tend to take to them, and neither do the other court lawyers.
torranceshipman Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 That's very equitable, torranceshipman. Thanks Cool post re: Perry Mason wannabees, btw, thats interesting. I'll stop going off topic now
grogster Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I worked in litigation for a long time. Academia wouldn't be my thing. Half the employment cases I've read seem to involve academics bickering at eachother. The collegiate environment seems to breed it. For all tv programmes and films portray lawyers as postulating dramatically in court, that kind of thing is likely to get shot down in flames by a real life judge....which is why I get dubious when someone's claiming to be a legal hotshot, but is arguing more like an overly enthusiastic party litigant. Judges will let lawers get away with the odd sarcastic aside, but that's about it. Young lawyers who walk in thinking they're going to be Perry Mason are likely to walk out of court in tears after one appearance, vowing off courtwork for life. Judges don't tend to take to them, and neither do the other court lawyers. TV lawyering will get one sanctioned especially in federal court. Most federal judges have no patience for any sort of attorney grandstanding or theatrical melodrama. Plus, most federal litigation is conducted through the written, not spoken, word. If your brief is rife with invective, snide asides and insult, you'll not only lose the motion but get hammered by the judge in her Opinion. Message board rants make for lousy advocacy. Edited January 11, 2010 by grogster
GorillaTheater Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 I worked in litigation for a long time. Academia wouldn't be my thing. Half the employment cases I've read seem to involve academics bickering at eachother. The collegiate environment seems to breed it. I had a great amount of respect for academicians prior to dealing with them on a regular basis. Granted, I only deal with them when a situation has gone off the rails, but never in my life have I dealt with people who, as a group, are more childish and disfunctional. Collegiality? Not that I can readily see. Litigation for me these days takes the form of second chair work. Back in my first chair days, I had a winning record, and that was far more due to the fact that I outworked the other side and had a better grasp on the facts and law than any dramatics on my part. And believe me, I was tempted to be as sarcastic as I am here. I learned very quickly though that I was shooting myself in the foot.
Taramere Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 I had a great amount of respect for academicians prior to dealing with them on a regular basis. Granted, I only deal with them when a situation has gone off the rails, but never in my life have I dealt with people who, as a group, are more childish and disfunctional. Collegiality? Not that I can readily see. Environments like that do get very political and petty. Litigation for me these days takes the form of second chair work. Back in my first chair days, I had a winning record, and that was far more due to the fact that I outworked the other side and had a better grasp on the facts and law than any dramatics on my part. And believe me, I was tempted to be as sarcastic as I am here. I learned very quickly though that I was shooting myself in the foot. You're not horribly sarcastic here, GT. Just dry.
hollywood undead Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Btw, part of healing from my divorce has been to come to terms with the fact that the only person responsible for my poor romantic choices has been "me". The fact that I'm a social loser who's facing the last 1/3 of her life alone and basically just living to pay alimony is me, I made piss poor choices, now I must put on my big girl panties, own those choices and get over it. To be totally candid, the only person I "hate" at this point is myself, for a supposedly bright woman I made some really, really regrettable choices. Does that mean you could've found out before marriage what a scumbag he was? I mean, sure, hindsight is 20/20, but were there any red flags already back then?
Author Woggle Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 Yes but a message board makes for an ideal stomping ground for those who can't be heard in real life, not to mention that online, people can be whatever they choose to be having no bearings on reality whatsoever, if they so choose. As someone else said early, shouting the loudest does not give anymore validity to a point, arguing a point without low blows or in the least if you are going to use sarcasm or a condescending tone having a healthy dose of self awareness in check, does. It's interesting the turn of events in this discussion because the same people who claim women should be "honest" about who they are and what they think, also happen to be the same people who demonstrate that they ask for one thing but are incapable of delivering the same level of what they request, themselves. That always amuses me when a person screams "RELAX AND DISCUSS THINGS!!" In other words, you do as I say while I do as I want. This is precisely the attitude that has lead us to where we are today in our gender battles. It's the culmination of these types of double standards that have evoked the feminist movement and this quest for equal footing, the idea that women got sick and tired of being told to "do as your are told and look the other way when you see me doing what I am asking you not do." Today, the pendulum tips in the other direction and women have come to realize that we no longer have to dull our expressions, that we no longer have to look the other way and that more importantly we are capable of doing everything that a man can do pretty much, so there is no longer this idea that women need to submit to men in order to keep harmony. To all those men who rebuke the feminist movement, this is how it could have been avoided altogether: You could have shown signs of respect not only for our gender but also for yourselves and we would have never had to fight to be on equal footing with you. If you didn't cheat, lie, deceive, use us, try to overpower us and talk down to us there would have been no reason for us to want a change. You were given the ability to see your sisters and brothers as your equal without any fancy laws and social norms to regulate you, yet you proved to be incapable of doing this on your own. This is what makes some men so angry and frustrated yet they fail to see that they themselves brought this on. They make us appear to be man haters when all we are doing is enjoying and embracing an environment where we can finally express ourselves equally with how men have done so since the beginning of time. So to all those men complaining about feminism and the unfairness of it all today, I respectfully say: Welcome to your world, gentlemen! In other words it is all men's fault and no matter how well a man treats a woman he should just except his payback. Men are not individuals to you but some figureheads of the patriarchy and if a man is hurt or mistreated that is just evening the score in your book. I paid my dues with the horror I have experienced since the day I was born so why the hell do I have to pay even more just so you and your sisters can settle some score?
donnamaybe Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 In other words it is all men's fault and no matter how well a man treats a woman he should just except his payback. Men are not individuals to you but some figureheads of the patriarchy and if a man is hurt or mistreated that is just evening the score in your book. I paid my dues with the horror I have experienced since the day I was born so why the hell do I have to pay even more just so you and your sisters can settle some score? Let it go already. BOOOOORRRRRRING!!!!!
carhill Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 In other words it is all men's fault and no matter how well a man treats a woman he should just accept his payback. Yes, I believe my stbx left that memo on my desk somewhere....here, let me look.... Yes, here it is.... just because California is a no-fault state, don't think for one minute that this no fault divorce is not your fault
Author Woggle Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 Yup and when I do everything in my power to fight this I am the bad guy. It doesn't matter if a man is the kindest and most faithful man on the planet because he will still be seen as a figurhead of the patriarchy and when women are angry they will turn on him like any other man. I would rather be the scumbag that women think men are because there is more freedom in that. Women will betray me no matter what so might as well have some fun with it.
donnamaybe Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Yup and when I do everything in my power to fight this I am the bad guy. It doesn't matter if a man is the kindest and most faithful man on the planet because he will still be seen as a figurhead of the patriarchy and when women are angry they will turn on him like any other man. I would rather be the scumbag that women think men are because there is more freedom in that. Women will betray me no matter what so might as well have some fun with it. And it doesn't matter if YOUR WIFE is the kindest and most faithful woman on the planet because she will still be seen as a figurhead of the matriarchy and when you are angry you will turn on her like any other woman. Or, perhaps, some other innocent, unsuspecting woman like those you come in contact with who you treat like crap as you've described in your many vile stories on LS.
Trimmer Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Yup and when I do everything in my power to fight this I am the bad guy. Not bad, so much as sad, really.
Author Woggle Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 And it doesn't matter if YOUR WIFE is the kindest and most faithful woman on the planet because she will still be seen as a figurhead of the matriarchy and when you are angry you will turn on her like any other woman. Or, perhaps, some other innocent, unsuspecting woman like those you come in contact with who you treat like crap as you've described in your many vile stories on LS. Do you think that good anf faithful men deserve to get cheated on? Be honest.
Author Woggle Posted January 11, 2010 Author Posted January 11, 2010 Not bad, so much as sad, really. So I should just sit back and be a doormat to feminism?
Taramere Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 So I should just sit back and be a doormat to feminism? Maybe just trying to turn your attention to some other topic once in a while would be enough for most people. Any subject gets wearisome when someone's dwelling obsessively on it. I realise it's hard, when you have a bee in your bonnet over something, but it does make you seem like an awful bore when you can't stop obsessing over a particular topic.
donnamaybe Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Do you think that good anf faithful men deserve to get cheated on? Be honest. I wasn't aware I did that.
stace79 Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 I can spot a misandrist from a mile away yet most of them will deny it all day. They usually give the response that they love men or adore men which to me is like when racists say they have black friends. They claim not to hate men but when push comes to shove they show their true colors. What women here have the guts to be honest enough and tell us how they really feel? I don't really "hate" many people at all.. I only develop severe dislike of anyone when they've done something to hurt me or someone I care about. Personally, over the months I've spent on LS, you always seem to be bashing women. Maybe that attitude carries over in to your daily life, affecting your dating, which only cements your woman-hating ways?
donnamaybe Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 I don't really "hate" many people at all.. I only develop severe dislike of anyone when they've done something to hurt me or someone I care about. Personally, over the months I've spent on LS, you always seem to be bashing women. Maybe that attitude carries over in to your daily life, affecting your dating, which only cements your woman-hating ways? He doesn't date. He's married to a wonderful, loyal wife. For now.
grogster Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Men are not individuals to you but some figureheads of the patriarchy To the contrary, Wog, women are not individuals to you and your ilk, but mere figureheads of some Malevolent Oppressive Matriarchy ("MOM"). The overwhelming majority of Shack women do not transgressively label ALL men in the same manner as you skewer ALL women. These women judge the individual, not the penis (unless it's another boring penis size thread). Appreciating equality of opportunity is not the same as cheerleading gender genocide. I paid my dues with the horror I have experienced since the day I was born so why the hell do I have to pay even more just so you and your sisters can settle some score? What score, pray tell, are women settling? Rape? Domestic violence? Sexual harassment? Pay discrimination? And how are these women settling this score? By having the gall to disagree with you and your buddies? It's the angry white men, the unlovable George Sodinis of this world, who are settling the score by murdering women in cold blood. The irony is rich: women who actually have a score to settle are not; while men are settling imaginary scores through butchery against woman. If the world was a just place, there'd be infinitely more misandrists than there are now.
Payden Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 No ones going to change his mind and he will not change yours. The subject is dead blocked with no agreed outcome..why keep arguing it and feeding this obvious troll?. Over 300 replies FFS....errrr.
stace79 Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 He doesn't date. He's married to a wonderful, loyal wife. For now. What, does he keep her chained up in the kitchen or something?
grogster Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 No ones going to change his mind and he will not change yours. The subject is dead blocked with no agreed outcome..why keep arguing it and feeding this obvious troll?. Over 300 replies FFS....errrr. I'm bored. And they're all easy shots.
donnamaybe Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 What, does he keep her chained up in the kitchen or something? She's under the delusion, poor thing, that he loves her. She has no idea how much he hates her, actually.
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