DolceVenganza Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Normally I dislike bearing my personal relations with anyone beyond myself, but in this case an outside perspective is not only welcomed, it is necessary. I will be up front and say that this may be lengthy, as it has been a 5 year relationship and would like some proper perspective because I know I am not perfect. Thank you. ----------------------- I am now 29; my GF is 25. We both live in our own places, about 20 minutes or so apart. We both live close to our places of employment. I moved out on my own in 2004; she did so in 2007. We have been together since she was 21 (senior in college) and I was 25. Our first 2 years or so were very good. She lived at home, while I lived on my own in a fantastic rental arrangement. She had zero college loans upon graduating and matriculated from a fantastic private uni, while I graduated from a good private uni with about 60,000, that are all almost paid off today. We lived it up our first years, going out each week, often partying during the week, and going away on some weekends. We spent alot of time together in the beginning, probably 5 days/week on average. Her parents are bit more 'strict,' so for the first few years I often picked her up and would drop her off the same night, even if we were spending time at my place. To this day, she will not drive too late into the evening or if there is the chance of bad weather, and often 'expects' me to pick her up if we are going out or to go to her place by default. It has been the last 2 years, however, that has me, or us, at a severe cross-roads. In my opinion, there are several glaring issues that are causing a huge rift between us and have kept that rift growing: 1) Very melo-dramatic. As much as I love her, she has a tendency to make mole hill into a mountain. She single-handedly ruined my best friends wedding for me, as she fought me throughout the whole night, from the moment I arrived to the morning when we left. We had many blow out fights in our room. * Times when I have sought private time to cooldown, she often follows me and eggs it on. If I am watching tv in another room or need a drive, she freaks out. 2) Very controlling. Perhaps it is her irish/italian background or just her nature, but she has a deep desire to have things her way, but does not want to have to decide anything. Rather, she just expects things to be her way with little input. 3) Rarely takes responsibility. If we have a fight, she often never takes ownership of what she might have done to cause it and has stopped apologizing for any attacks or fights she begins. She see's much of her behavior as justified by anything I may do, whether it is wrong or right in her mind. -------------------------------- The straw that broke the camels back...XMAS eve-eve.... I would categorize our relationship as deeply passionate - we swing from extreme love to extreme anger or pain. The most recent and deeply hurtful moment happened this past Wednesday as I had loosely planned our own XMAS night. I kept it simple, knowing we had many gifts to exchange and that the weather has been very inclement in the northeast as of late. I bought various cheese, crackers, and a few dessert appetizers, as well as had bottles of wine and champagne. I showed up around 730 with all expectations to sleep over. We were both set to exchange around $400 in gifts over an hour or 2, while watching movies. But the bomb was triggered...about midway through conversations and exchanges, she becomes super pissed because I am taking a few days off this week to move my brother back home from DC to Boston. She is upset because she feels I had not taken enough time (or any) to do anything with days off with her this year. In my defense...I have seen her every weekend of nearly every year we have been together...I recently lost a major boss and close personal friend in july to cancer, so time off has been tough to come by as we are a small office...and our fighting has not motivated me to take extensive time off for expensive day trips... She began flipping out...saying that "she has been there for 5 years while my brother moved away 2 years ago and that it is totally unfair that I might drop her now that he is back"...she also stated..."he is getting married soon and now has his life to focus on, not you"... Essentially she was upset and attempting to "bully" me into seeing her viewpoint. My gut just felt sick and upset. I can fight and put my foot down if need be, but here it wasn't worth it. No, if a girl is going to be what I felt was THIS mean and ruin our night, then maybe she wasn't the girl for me. I had asked her to 'talk' to me, rather than attack me, but she continued being venomous and hurtful. She proceeded to say "big deal that you did this happy hour. You used to do many happy hours in the past. When you said you had tonight planned, I thought you meant a nice night out, not some cheese and crackers at my place." Normally, i would think if a girl was this unhappy, rather than just spit all of it out, she would submit her unhappiness to me, or just exit the relationship. I made a point to clarify to her 2 things...1) that if her goal was to bring get what she wants, she is hurting the person she expects to give it to her. 2) If she is aiming to attack me and push me away, I am gone. Our fighting continued for hours now. Most of it at this point was her. Contrary to my normal behavior under such situations, i was fairly calm. At one point, I actually cried a little. Why might a man cry? Because...I lost my close personal boss and friend in july...life is short...my dad has open heart surgery coming up and who knows how many Xmases I may have with him?...I am tired of fighting with someone I should be loving...I thought I did something nice....I mean heck, if a simple happy hour and appetizers do not appease her why the heck would I invest in a nice dinner out? (Mind you, we have been to many nice restaurants and hotels that my parents have NEVER seen or would ever see, and done in our VERY early 20's. At our ages, her parents were working 2-3 jobs and their weekly treat was a sub at a local deli). What I am asking in a long-winded way is...does this sound normal? Salvagbable? It FEELS like there is no way for me to change my feelings. I am stuck in between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, I have a gf and friend who has behaved this way for 2 years or so, yet would blame me for most of it. My biggest faults? I do not want to be out at bars or restaurants as much - I am saving for a home. She claims "we do nothing." She claims I do not care about her enough. I am just shattered from what happened before XMAS. Even tonight she was BS because I spent it with my dad and brother playing risk and watching the Hangover (it was the first time I have ever played a board game with my dad). At one point, she claims I, me, forced her into having a panic attack. I received 10 text messages since I shut my phone off with her mostly flipping out or blaming me for things, yet Wednesday was ALL her being completely unhappy and attacking me for it. I just don't see how I ever kids with her. I do not trust her. When she is upset, she attacks, never seeing where her fault lies. She has on occasion apologized, but little has been done to learn or grow from her mistakes. It takes a significant amount of work to point out where things might have gone wrong. It just seems like we are rolling baggage forward from years ago, pushing blame around, solving nothing, and deepening the hurt between us. She ultimately wants to be married and have kids and sees all the people around us doing so, including my brother and many of our friends, yet we are nowhere near that path. With the latest explosion, I have finally reached the end of my rope and am seriously contemplating ending it. The last years have been non-stop bickering, fighting, or disagreements. I always felt we had alot of LOVE if we could last this long, but a part of me feels like it is some sick relationship. There's alot of other things I could drudge up, but I am sure you get the jist. Thank you for reading this large tome. Happy holidays.
SoulSearch_CO Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 :| It sounds to me like she doesn't appreciate what she has. I found the comment about the cheese and crackers rather harsh. When one has the simple things in life to make one happy, they usually don't realize how precious that is until they LOSE it. I wouldn't necessarily say cut it off altogether, but in your case, I think a separation might smack her ass back into reality. Meaning: tell her you want time away to think about things. No phone calls. No texts. No emails. NOTHING. If you wish, set a date in the future when you two can meet up to discuss any insights gained, decide if you want to continue, etc. But the break would give you both time to decide if this is the person you want to continue your life with and the healthy way to go about achieving that. She's getting some kind of payout by treating you the way she is (spewing venom). Perhaps showing her what she stands to lose would show her that that behavior is unacceptable. Nobody should have to tolerate verbal/emotional abuse, period.
carolinawanderer Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 You know, I thought I was a needy person for wanting slightly more sympathy from my ex when I was upset and getting mildly jealous when she went out drinking without me sometimes. Then I saw this. My friend, if this has been going on for TWO YEARS, you are with a truly needy person who is most likely not going to get any better. It would be one thing if she actually took some responsibility for her actions and tried to improve, but it has been a very long time and she has done no such thing. Tell her you want to break up and see what her reaction is, that's what I'd do.
Pink Cupcakes Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 I like SoulSearch's idea of no contact for a while. Have you mentioned to her that you are starting to doubt your future with her because of the fighting? What was her reaction? I think your gesture of a night together opening presents and enjoying appetizers and champagne is wonderful - I can't see how any woman would be upset over that.
Vasto_Lorde Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Normally I dislike bearing my personal relations with anyone beyond myself, but in this case an outside perspective is not only welcomed, it is necessary. I will be up front and say that this may be lengthy, as it has been a 5 year relationship and would like some proper perspective because I know I am not perfect. Thank you. ----------------------- I am now 29; my GF is 25. We both live in our own places, about 20 minutes or so apart. We both live close to our places of employment. I moved out on my own in 2004; she did so in 2007. We have been together since she was 21 (senior in college) and I was 25. Our first 2 years or so were very good. She lived at home, while I lived on my own in a fantastic rental arrangement. She had zero college loans upon graduating and matriculated from a fantastic private uni, while I graduated from a good private uni with about 60,000, that are all almost paid off today. We lived it up our first years, going out each week, often partying during the week, and going away on some weekends. We spent alot of time together in the beginning, probably 5 days/week on average. Her parents are bit more 'strict,' so for the first few years I often picked her up and would drop her off the same night, even if we were spending time at my place. To this day, she will not drive too late into the evening or if there is the chance of bad weather, and often 'expects' me to pick her up if we are going out or to go to her place by default. It has been the last 2 years, however, that has me, or us, at a severe cross-roads. In my opinion, there are several glaring issues that are causing a huge rift between us and have kept that rift growing: 1) Very melo-dramatic. As much as I love her, she has a tendency to make mole hill into a mountain. She single-handedly ruined my best friends wedding for me, as she fought me throughout the whole night, from the moment I arrived to the morning when we left. We had many blow out fights in our room. * Times when I have sought private time to cooldown, she often follows me and eggs it on. If I am watching tv in another room or need a drive, she freaks out. 2) Very controlling. Perhaps it is her irish/italian background or just her nature, but she has a deep desire to have things her way, but does not want to have to decide anything. Rather, she just expects things to be her way with little input. 3) Rarely takes responsibility. If we have a fight, she often never takes ownership of what she might have done to cause it and has stopped apologizing for any attacks or fights she begins. She see's much of her behavior as justified by anything I may do, whether it is wrong or right in her mind. -------------------------------- The straw that broke the camels back...XMAS eve-eve.... I would categorize our relationship as deeply passionate - we swing from extreme love to extreme anger or pain. The most recent and deeply hurtful moment happened this past Wednesday as I had loosely planned our own XMAS night. I kept it simple, knowing we had many gifts to exchange and that the weather has been very inclement in the northeast as of late. I bought various cheese, crackers, and a few dessert appetizers, as well as had bottles of wine and champagne. I showed up around 730 with all expectations to sleep over. We were both set to exchange around $400 in gifts over an hour or 2, while watching movies. But the bomb was triggered...about midway through conversations and exchanges, she becomes super pissed because I am taking a few days off this week to move my brother back home from DC to Boston. She is upset because she feels I had not taken enough time (or any) to do anything with days off with her this year. In my defense...I have seen her every weekend of nearly every year we have been together...I recently lost a major boss and close personal friend in july to cancer, so time off has been tough to come by as we are a small office...and our fighting has not motivated me to take extensive time off for expensive day trips... She began flipping out...saying that "she has been there for 5 years while my brother moved away 2 years ago and that it is totally unfair that I might drop her now that he is back"...she also stated..."he is getting married soon and now has his life to focus on, not you"... Essentially she was upset and attempting to "bully" me into seeing her viewpoint. My gut just felt sick and upset. I can fight and put my foot down if need be, but here it wasn't worth it. No, if a girl is going to be what I felt was THIS mean and ruin our night, then maybe she wasn't the girl for me. I had asked her to 'talk' to me, rather than attack me, but she continued being venomous and hurtful. She proceeded to say "big deal that you did this happy hour. You used to do many happy hours in the past. When you said you had tonight planned, I thought you meant a nice night out, not some cheese and crackers at my place." Normally, i would think if a girl was this unhappy, rather than just spit all of it out, she would submit her unhappiness to me, or just exit the relationship. I made a point to clarify to her 2 things...1) that if her goal was to bring get what she wants, she is hurting the person she expects to give it to her. 2) If she is aiming to attack me and push me away, I am gone. Our fighting continued for hours now. Most of it at this point was her. Contrary to my normal behavior under such situations, i was fairly calm. At one point, I actually cried a little. Why might a man cry? Because...I lost my close personal boss and friend in july...life is short...my dad has open heart surgery coming up and who knows how many Xmases I may have with him?...I am tired of fighting with someone I should be loving...I thought I did something nice....I mean heck, if a simple happy hour and appetizers do not appease her why the heck would I invest in a nice dinner out? (Mind you, we have been to many nice restaurants and hotels that my parents have NEVER seen or would ever see, and done in our VERY early 20's. At our ages, her parents were working 2-3 jobs and their weekly treat was a sub at a local deli). What I am asking in a long-winded way is...does this sound normal? Salvagbable? It FEELS like there is no way for me to change my feelings. I am stuck in between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, I have a gf and friend who has behaved this way for 2 years or so, yet would blame me for most of it. My biggest faults? I do not want to be out at bars or restaurants as much - I am saving for a home. She claims "we do nothing." She claims I do not care about her enough. I am just shattered from what happened before XMAS. Even tonight she was BS because I spent it with my dad and brother playing risk and watching the Hangover (it was the first time I have ever played a board game with my dad). At one point, she claims I, me, forced her into having a panic attack. I received 10 text messages since I shut my phone off with her mostly flipping out or blaming me for things, yet Wednesday was ALL her being completely unhappy and attacking me for it. I just don't see how I ever kids with her. I do not trust her. When she is upset, she attacks, never seeing where her fault lies. She has on occasion apologized, but little has been done to learn or grow from her mistakes. It takes a significant amount of work to point out where things might have gone wrong. It just seems like we are rolling baggage forward from years ago, pushing blame around, solving nothing, and deepening the hurt between us. She ultimately wants to be married and have kids and sees all the people around us doing so, including my brother and many of our friends, yet we are nowhere near that path. With the latest explosion, I have finally reached the end of my rope and am seriously contemplating ending it. The last years have been non-stop bickering, fighting, or disagreements. I always felt we had alot of LOVE if we could last this long, but a part of me feels like it is some sick relationship. There's alot of other things I could drudge up, but I am sure you get the jist. Thank you for reading this large tome. Happy holidays. I think you know the answer to your question already but you just need that extra validation. My advice to you is to end this as soon as you can. The first sign of trouble that should concern you is the verbal abuse. I consider that a gateway form of abuse. Like you said in your post mate, life is too short to have to go through this much drama.
ordinary_girl Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 to be honest you sound a bit self-absorbed and self-pitying. I think she is bored. granted, she is rubbish at communication and gets wound up easily (people grow out of that as they get older, I did as well) but I can tell she is fed up with you and your navel-gazing. I think she can sense that this has no future for one reason or another
paddington bear Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 This sounds suspiciously like this crazy woman who made my life an utter hell this year. I went to therapy because I couldn't deal with her anger, her expectation that everyone around her do what she wants, with, as you said, little or no input from her, and then a temper tantrum if she didn't get what she wanted and needing to control everyone and everything around her. I felt smothered and trapped and scared of her and her outbursts. I went to a therapist to figure out how to deal with her, who said that she sounded like she had borderline personality disorder - now this woman is highly clever, functioning human being, not someone you might necessarily call mad, but her demanding behaviour, her temper tantrums her unwillingness to see that she might be wrong ever, her emotional manipulation and her control-freakery pointed out that there was something very, very abnormal about her to me. She didn't seem to care that she upset me or others around her so long as he got what she wanted and then couldn't understand why people didn't want to be around her. Setting up a tug of war between you and your brother is unfair and puts you in a terrible position, wanting to be treated like a princess without taking into account extenuating circumstances, such as the death of your boss, is simply selfish and mean. Here are some links - being constantly shouted at, being controlled etc is the classic signs of being in an emotionally abusive relationship whether she is BPD or not, her behaviour is not acceptable or normal. "The goal of an abuser is control. They want you to behave only in the ways in which they want you to behave. They achieve this control with abuse. The cycle of abuse is a huge part of your answer to "How did this happen to me?" For years, you have very likely been feeling that you have been going around in circles... not getting anywhere. Your feelings are correct. You have likely kept on trying and trying your best to resolve issues and doing everything in your power to try to stop your partner's abusive behavior... and nothing has worked." http://www.bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page5.html http://www.batteredmen.com/batbpd.htm http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/anger-in-the-age-entitlement/200812/are-you-dating-abuser
curiousnycgirl Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 I agree with the others - this relationship needs to end. While my ex was not as overt as yours, at some point he became very angry with me. It was so bad that people we met couldn't understand why we were together since he apparently disliked me so much. I don't understand what people hope to achieve/obtain with this angry behaviour - but I think they are forcing us to be the bad guys and end the relationship. And that is what I did - 26 days ago (and yes it hurts and stinks!).
skydiveaddict Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 i'd straight up ask her if she still wants a relationship w/you or not. give her a chance to let out her anger/frustration etc. you two have been together a long time, & you might horribly regret breaking it off without being sure of how she really feels or what's making her so angry all the time
Crusoe Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Dolce, in your words I see two young people who both still have quite a bit of growing up to do. If you love this woman, I recommend you grow up together. She is telling you she is not happy, she is telling you what it will take for her to be happy, she is not trying to hurt you, she just wants you to listen to her and you are not listening. Right here and now, you see dramatic and controlling. In 10, 20, 30 years time, you will look back and and see a fairly normal, possibly somewhat spoilt, 25 year old girl that you didn't know how to deal with at the time.
aerogurl87 Posted December 27, 2009 Posted December 27, 2009 Ok first off your girlfriend sounds manipulative and high maintenance. Maybe you spoiled her with the extravagance and now that's what she's used to. So in a way I think you might have brought that upon yourself. As to the fact that you call your relationship "passionate", I think the word you should've used is toxic. Extreme highs and lows is not good for any relationship. My relationship with my ex was like this and I called it "passionate" when in reality it was so toxic it drove me crazy (literally). You need to end this relationship as soon as possible because it's not going to get better. If you don't, you two will continue to argue and she'll continue to try and manipulate you with her passive aggressive behaviour.
Author DolceVenganza Posted December 27, 2009 Author Posted December 27, 2009 I sincerely appreciate all replies. to be honest you sound a bit self-absorbed and self-pitying. I think she is bored. granted, she is rubbish at communication and gets wound up easily (people grow out of that as they get older, I did as well) but I can tell she is fed up with you and your navel-gazing. I think she can sense that this has no future for one reason or another What about my initial post sounds Self-absorbed or Self-pitying? This is the first time I have opened up about my concerns with this relationship in 5 years. For the most part, I have stomached the ups and downs like those of man trying to learn and grow with his woman. But I have grown tired of the emotional rollercoaster and the person I feel I become when we are acting this way. I am very 'cautious' to write so I am not deflecting blame to her or wholly to me so that I can receive the most honest opinions and actually grow from any input I receive. i'd straight up ask her if she still wants a relationship w/you or not. give her a chance to let out her anger/frustration etc. you two have been together a long time, & you might horribly regret breaking it off without being sure of how she really feels or what's making her so angry all the time I feel there is a difference between angry or upset behavior, and completely psychotic, immature, abusive, and destructive behavior. After 5 years and being 29, I have a thick skin. I can take a beating. However, I find it completely wrong that the one person you bare your soul, would also be the one to abuse that power and truly hurt you. Most men recognize this power with women and do not resort to abusing their position. However, in this case, she is. She is telling you she is not happy, she is telling you what it will take for her to be happy, she is not trying to hurt you, she just wants you to listen to her and you are not listening. Right here and now, you see dramatic and controlling. In 10, 20, 30 years time, you will look back and and see a fairly normal, possibly somewhat spoilt, 25 year old girl that you didn't know how to deal with at the time. My email box is now 100% argumentative emails. There are very few nice, fun, exciting emails. Rather, they are all about 'fixing' our relationship. I have always been willing to listen, but a relationship, as idealistic as I am about such things, is about loving the person as they are, not changing them into some object of your perfection. I do agree we are both immature and have growing up to do - we always will. Was she 'trying' to tell me what is upsetting her or that she does not like a nice, cozy XMas eve while it was going on, essentially ruining the night as it was unfolding? Or there was the night just a few days ago when we went to dinner and I spent $80 on dinner and she was largely ungrateful "because we haven't gone in a long time" and she does expect to go out to dinner every now and then for 'date nights.' I used to do quaint happy hours with wine, various cheeses, or fun drinks in different locations. I would have flowers, stuffed animals, or various items of just some fun regard. I partially stopped because she seemed like a blackhole of NEED, and partially because it was really adding up. Between dinners out, alcohols, all the gas spent to get her and bring her home, weekends, and trinkets, it was very easily 5,000-10,000 per year and I saw that as my home. I came to the conclusion that for me, it was unnecessary to have to spend this much money just "to make a relationship work." As I pointed out, her parents at our age were working 2-3 jobs and at best enjoying a deli sub on the weekends as a treat. My own parents are blue collar and are very simple. Summers were spent at the family beach cottage (nice, but small) and many winters at a family in Maine/NH/VT. She takes elaborates trips and cruises to the carribbean and europe. Even though we live apart, I have seen her from Friday to Monday of every week and often 1-2 other nights during the week. It is tiring to do that much driving and planning of activities. I have spoken to her about how our relationship is laid out, but she is often inconsolable and does not want to change things. ------------------------------ Really, I am the only one who see's this side. I believe her parents have a slight inkling she can be this way, but it is to the point that she can misbehave so badly purely because she has had my love and is beautiful, thus has options. I wouldn't have bothered posting anything at all, except I am reminded of my grandparents who were married for 50 years and spoke of their ups and downs. However, that was a different time. People married younger and marriage generally meant permanence, or social outcast if you divorced. It was anathema to religious beliefs. My own parents fight, to a degree, even after 25 years, but not to the level we appear to attack. Or maybe we do? In either case, this level of fighting, to me, feels like an hour glass, with sand flowing away dissolving my affections away. I realize the mantra..."anything worth having isn't easy," or something like that, and thus being with a beautiful, all-encompassing girl can be difficult. She does alot of great things when she wants to... Langerie...very sexual...she treats me to meals or nice gifts...she has been there for me through quite a bit...without much asking she is often there to do whatever...she is thoughtful...she often cooks great meals and will put nice happy hour spreads for us. That's what makes this so hard. After 5 years, our fights are door busting. Our subtle, happy moments are great, chock full of fun moments and quotes. We recently got blasted by massive snow and she was very fun and cute while we cleaned our trucks off. I smoked a cigar, and she kind of tried to clean them off while nearly scratching and dinging the exterior. There hasn't been anyone who could make a DMB concert so fun. Even when camping, which she partakes in like a real trooper, she is quite fun, too. But those days are few and far between. It has literally been 2 years of non-stop weekend fighting to some degree. Her biggest gripe is "she never knows when she is going to see me." This is patently false. I see her every weekend, we just often do not have elaborate plans. We are both close to our families, and since I spend a large majority of the week driving to her place, I'm spent come the weekend. Thank you All.
Author DolceVenganza Posted January 8, 2010 Author Posted January 8, 2010 Update. Following the argument we had on XMAS eve-eve, we had another blowout the night before I was to leave for DC. It seems she had set out to surprise me before I left for the long trip but showing up at my place unexpectedly, only I wasn't there. I was playing poker with my brother, cousin and his gf at a friend's place. She waited patiently for 2 hours in my bed, but when she found out that my cousin's gf was going in his truck, she lost it and fought me for the next few hours in my room while they slept in another room. I didn't fall asleep until 1am and had to wake by 7am so she could work and I could drive the next 10 hours or so. Needless to say it was a rough trip. It took 12 hours thanks to snow and traffic. When we arrived, we gave my cousin and his gf a mini tour of dc and crashed at 1am. We then awoke at 8am to begin the process of packing my brother and his fiance for the long trip back home to boston. I had my Tahoe and my cousin his Ford f150. I was going to be pulling a Uhaul trailer (6x12, max size), which ended up at 4k pounds. I've never towed anything and it was quite a large load to pull 450 miles. I knew from the start when my brother asked me to move him out of DC that it would be a long, tough journey down and back and that I would not have room for my gf, with whom I fought with alot anyways. I would need a driver who could handle my truck, the weight, the kind of road ways between here and there that we would face, and one who is good in traffic. My brother has done the DC-boston drive, so it was obvious I needed such a passenger. My GF had thrown a fit pretty much every week during December because she had never gone to DC. She saw it as we hadn't really taken a major trip, and so I was screwing her over by not bringing her. In actuality, whenever I visited my bro, it was me and him. His fiance was never around and I would normally sleep on their living studio floor. It was just brother time. I had to make the executive decision in case there was not enough space should they have too much stuff, which there wasn't enough space. Lord knows no one wants to be crammed in for a 12 hour ride - it was bad enough how I had it as a driver, I cannot imagine how it would be if I was a crammed passenger without the ability to stretch or sleep. So needless to say, when I returned, having driven 20 of the 40 hours I was gone and having done all the driving, my girlfriend was still inconsolable. She would not come to terms with her behavior and the fact I was right. Instead, she would rather let it go down that I never took her. ------------- I saw her for New Year's, which was an ok night at a friends place, but not 'her ideal.' She would much rather have been in Boston. However, having driven as much as I did and spending as much as I did, I had zero energy to be in Boston. I just had no aspirations to be in such a large area, driving and sleeping in weird places. So she was mildly unhappy. We fought that weekend and as of this past Sunday, she when she left my place at 9am, I have not seen her or spoken on good terms. Most conversations have been straight fights. She is all but ignoring me, blaming me for the most recent fights but not recognizing her wrong doing in any of this months affairs. I would say it is done of its own doing. Any woman who would really want to be with me would understand where I am coming from, and rather than make such a difficult move tougher, she would make it easier and attempt to see where I am coming from. It had been a truly loving 2 years, with this last year being terribly difficult, both with her and life. I lost a good friend and boss in July. His widow then lost her father, which was another funeral that I became a pall bearer, once again. Our office had many deaths or serious health concerns arise and my own father heads into heart surgery very soon. I would think, given all that occurred, the importance of life and love would sway to the forefront, but my deep nature tends to lose people, and when I speak or write, I think she zones out. One would see how fragile life is, how special it is, and if you love someone, you endure it all. Instead, she complains that our vacations are not big enough - we have done most everything EXCEPT some elaborate cruise or week long stay. We have not bought a house or moved, hence our current state. We have been to plush restaurantes, used to the bar scene, and have great friends. We have healthy, well to do families, and good jobs with degrees. We have our health too, our futures, and our abilities. What more can one ask for in life? Does more give happiness? Or is it that I am closed off to life that deters such a woman? She would say I am settled, I would feel I am practical. I do not need much or showy things to feel happiness or love. Instead, I feel happiness or love in gestures, be they difficult or easy. It pains me to see such a wonderful girl inevitably falling out of my life, blinded by what she deems is the right thing. Maybe I am wrong for her and she is wrong for me, but given how important religion is in her life, I cannot fathom some of her behaviors either, nor her current choices. Thank you for reading. DV.
doushenka Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 She had zero college loans upon graduating and matriculated from a fantastic private uni, while I graduated from a good private uni with about 60,000, that are all almost paid off today. I'm jealous! To this day, she will not drive too late into the evening or if there is the chance of bad weather, and often 'expects' me to pick her up if we are going out or to go to her place by default. In bad weather, if you are the better driver, this is not unreasonable. I'd do it for my darling if I had a car; he hates winter weather. My dad does it for my mum. She single-handedly ruined my best friends wedding for me, as she fought me throughout the whole night, from the moment I arrived to the morning when we left. We had many blow out fights in our room. What were the fights about? Times when I have sought private time to cooldown, she often follows me and eggs it on. If I am watching tv in another room or need a drive, she freaks out. Good on you for the cooling-down stuff. Have you told her what that does to you, when she follows you? When you do go to cool down, have you resolved the problem, or at least got to a point where the two of you can better resolve it with cooler heads? Very controlling. Perhaps it is her irish/italian background or just her nature, but she has a deep desire to have things her way, but does not want to have to decide anything. Rather, she just expects things to be her way with little input. Got to put your foot down there. Irish, Italian, Venezuelan, whichever, it's nothing to do with her nationality and everything to do with a sense of entitlement. It must stop and you must be the one to stop it if you are to move forward in a healthy way with her. Rarely takes responsibility. If we have a fight, she often never takes ownership of what she might have done to cause it and has stopped apologizing for any attacks or fights she begins. She see's much of her behavior as justified by anything I may do, whether it is wrong or right in her mind. ...okay, now she's sounding kind of narcissistic, given the behaviors you've mentioned. At the very least, not owning your problems is immature, and I can say this both as someone who didn't and as someone who learned how. (I can also, right now, say it as someone who's frustrated by a friend who won't. ARGH.) I would categorize our relationship as deeply passionate - we swing from extreme love to extreme anger or pain. Not healthy in the long run. I think you must know that by now, on some level. Couples counseling seems appropriate, though I don't know if she'd go for that. I don't know why she thinks helping a family member means she's out of the picture or even less of a priority to you. That's a sign of a deep insecurity. She's missing something; whether it's rational or codswallop is another question. You are working to be a provider to her, as I understand it, as well as keep your own head above water financially, and this is admirable. It does not sound like your girlfriend ever learned fair fighting techniques; I encourage you to look into the concept. When you said you had tonight planned, I thought you meant a nice night out, not some cheese and crackers at my place. And this statement of hers was just spiteful and cruel. I am sorry. (Mind you, we have been to many nice restaurants and hotels that my parents have NEVER seen or would ever see, and done in our VERY early 20's. At our ages, her parents were working 2-3 jobs and their weekly treat was a sub at a local deli). So she's being a princess, basically. Nice. If she's begrudging you time with your family, thinking that somehow the love and affection you give them nullifies what you give her, she needs to not be in a relationship with anyone right now, least of all you. I would probably tell her to hit the road -- kindly, gently, but firmly. I'd go NC, especially given her fits of hysterics in the past, and spend that quality time with your kin that you want to have with them. When you're ready again, there are far saner women in the world. I wish you luck in finding one.
Author DolceVenganza Posted January 14, 2010 Author Posted January 14, 2010 Thank you for responding, ms doushenka. To your replies and more events: 1. I will NEVER permit a woman to drive drunk, in inclement weather, or if she is not comfortable with driving. However, over a period of 5 years it is severly imbalanced. She pays more for her place, but I do spend 80% of my time there anyways. 2. The fights during my friend's wedding were about nothing. They began because we were fighting PRIOR to the wedding actually. It began the night a friend arrived in from NC to Boston and us guys were slated to go to a bar about 40 minutes away. I told her if she wanted to be involved in our program she could, but I did not wanter her upset later if it wasn't fun to her. She asked about food and I told her it would be before or after the bar, and she was ok with it, at the time. Needless to say, we get in my truck, my friends are in another car and she blows up. She goes about her "impending" hangover, since we are drinking and she has to work, how I didn't have food ready for her, etc. I lose it. I told her not to come if she was going to be upset. I never promised food BEFORE the bar, i said before or after. Besides, it was 7pm and she would have eaten at work. So it was a dumb fight. This trickles over into the wedding b/c she never apologized or acknowledged how dumb said behavior was, exploding like that, and on the day of the wedding when I show up having driven the Groom to the hotel, she is pissy because I do not settle down to 'spend time with her before the wedding.' I tell her I am a Groomsman and my first duty the next 2 days is to him. I have been to many weddings but never in one, so I am over anxious with being 'there' for my friend. She is upset, thinking I don't care, and this causes a fight. So for the remainder of the night I am with her, I get or buy drinks, but I am not close or affectionate. We dance together, but I am not fawning all over her. We sit together at the table and seem fine. But she 'senses' things and is jealous because my friend and his now wife met WAY after us and are married, whereas to this point we are near done. Follow? So it blows up to the point where she gets quite buzzed or drunk, flips out, makes a minor scene outside the main ballroom and actually grabs my arms so hard she leaves black and blue marks. Until now, no one has known. I didn't care, it didn't hurt, but it was enough to leaves marks. I'm shocked and following the wedding I barely contact her. I had no clue how to tackle my emotions. As there were no further questions, simply comments, I will add a bit to where things are at now. It is helping clear my mind. ----------------------------- I admit bias up front, as this is MY perspective, thus I cannot fathom why she feels as she does or acts as she does, but following XMAS here are the events: The Wednesday before XMAS, as mentioned above, was a major fight. I saw her XMAS eve night (Thurs) briefly at her parents house. It was civil, with no hint of a huge blow out, but I was very upset still. Compounding that was my family pressuring me to marry 'such an obviously awesome and beautiful girl. Such a conflict sturred much emotion. I did not see her on XMAS, nor on that weekend until Sunday before I left to move my brother out from DC. She came over Sunday night, unannounced, as I was a friend's house playing poker. She went over at about 10pm and waited. A fight broke out because she felt I lied about my whereabouts. She had shown up at my place while I wasn't home, yet my text messages indicated I was home. Truth be told, I wasn't paying attention to my phone and at 10 pm never thought she would go over on her own, so saying that I wasn't home never crossed my mind. She curled up in bed and just waited, all the while flipping out via text message. I get to my place, with my cousin and his GF who are accompanying me on Monday morning to DC, and she flips out in my bedroom. First because she feels I lied, and second because she realizes my cousin's gf is going and my gf isn't. The reasons my gf are not going are many: 1) Room. I have my brother in my truck and no other room. He obv. has to go, but my gf doesn't. The whole backspace of my truck will be used for cargo space, as will the uhaul I come to pull. My cousin is going in his Ford pickup truck for highway help, any road service, lifting, and storage. He has no space. All available space in both trucks will be used, and were. We barely made it back with what vehicles we brought. 2) We have been fighting crazily and I do not need the distraction. I could use the time away to chill out. She doesn't see it this way. 3) It is a miserable trip. Out of the 40 hours we are gone, I drive 20 of them. On the final trip home we leave at 7pm and get back at 630am, just enough time for my brother to make an interview. Who wants to go on that, scrunched up for 12 hours? No one. We fought ALL of december over this, yet I knew from the start we had no room beyond the passengers seat for people. There was no room, yet she ruined many nights contesting me over this fact. When I returned from the move out, she had no apologies over her behavior. None. Zero. She didn't care. She was 'hurt' I never brought her, not realizing ALL vehicles WERE JAMMED. The uhaul weighed 4000lbs! I had a 52" tv in my truck, as well as many electronics. I couldn't even move my seat back! I will admit it was something of a herculean effort, since I had never driven so far with so much weight in tow, and to do it almost on a turn around was tough. -------- New Year's comes and we actually hang out. Things are amicable, but she was pissy about doing it since it is a house party with friends who have a baby. On the plus side, they do have a hottub and ample room to party, but my GF would prefer to be in Boston, not at a house party in NH with older couples. I am also tired from having driven to DC and back to Boston in 2 days. I told her if she didn't want to do this, to go to Boston. I never force her do things, particularly when things are that this point. New Year's is fun and we do ok. She goes into New Year's day with a chip on her shoulder "expecting us to do something." I ask what? She doesn't know. Just something. To plan something. Perhaps dinner, drinks, whatever. I tell her I spent tons of money going to DC and we have drinks left over from New Year's. Not to mention I'm exhausted. I still had not caught up on sleep since going to DC. She gets rather irate at which point we turn to another fight. I am still raw about XMAS eve and how she behaved before I left for DC, but she doesn't care. To her, that's in the past. She cares about now and the fact I don't want to go out. I care about the fact I can't invest in a woman who so blatanly hurts me yet doesn't appear to apologize. I feel like her entertainment, not like a person. I leave. I make plans with my family and brother for chinese food and a movie. After much fighting, she sucks it up and comes over, possibly hoping to resolve things. She gets to my place and a few hours later more fighting ensues. I tell her that she never had to come and if she is going to get pissy to go, or stay alone. She begins her normal crying, melodramatic meltdown. I lose it. I yell some. Obviously that doesn't help. It just fuels her fire and makes her feel justified. So I threaten that if she doesn't calm down to leave or that she can come with me. She can come with me or I am leaving her. She likes neither. She wants me to be nice. I try, somewhat, but still raw and now seeing this just irritates me. I leave her at my place crying. I won't return home for 5 hours or more. She goes to bed. We end up fighting most of that weekend, despite the fact she stays over. She lives Sunday morning around 10am, in the middle of a snowstorm, affirmed that 'we are done.' At some point during the weekend I had said it and so had she and it was etched on her brain, so now she is motivated to move on. Stupidly, during that week I feel bad about her leaving. The image of her trudging out into the snow on Sunday morning plagues me, so I resolve to apologize for my wrongs, at the very least to have closure. I am also hoping we can be mature and talk about the things we both did wrong. It doesn't work. She ignores me all week and her responses are that she has to be strong and move on. Friday comes. We had been previously invited to a ski/snow getaway with friends. She doesn't like the girl hosting it, but my gf would like to be in the mountains. For obvious reasons, my gf (or x at this time) does not go. Instead from her facebook account I see that she has plans with guys who have interest in her since college. Guys who persue her whether she is with me or not, some of which she had dated during our breaks or prior to me. Realizing it is over and I do not deserve this, I opt to go North for the weekend. With about 1 hour left in our 3 hour drive (driving with a friend), she calls me. Evidently it became known to her that I was going North and she is ripping mad and upset. She is upset "because in 5 years we never went the mountains." She is upset because 'she feels I will be with that girl who is hosting it.' She is upset because "she would have gone north had I asked her to go' (yet she ignored me all week otherwise, right?) She is blowing up in front of my friend, while I am driving through a massive snowstorm around Mount Washington. I talk logically and make my points as I outlined them here. She has no remorse and is "very hurt" by me. The whole weekend she will say how hurt she is via text message and upset. It gets nowhere. I have fun and realize how ****ed this situation is. I get home Sunday and try to put this thing to bed. She blows up at me for having gone, still, and later that night tries to come over. She is PISSED I am hanging out with my brother yet again and figured I would go to her place and try to fix things. Nope. I tell her not to come over. I am still too raw now from everything that has gone on and that it would be useless. moreover, she still places an inordinate amount of blame on me, for relatively nothing. --------------------- I must look crazy having gone back to her and some may ask what I did to cause one to act this way, or perhaps, what evils hath I committed? Well, during our most heated moments I will go off and call her all the hurtful female names in the book. I am not proud. I have forgotten what it is like to really respect a female and feel that they can be sane at times. I have found her often lying, especially when she is hurt, just to sway me to do something in her favor. For instance, Sunday night she said she was having a panic attack and was going to the hospital with her dad. Then she revised the story to say that her dad was going to her apartment to monitor her. She calls me, stating her dad is out in the living while she is in the bathroom trying to convince me to come over. Come to find out, none of this at all happened. Her dad never went over, nor did she need to go to the hospital. Sure, she was upset, but she was not having a panic attack. How can a man marry or have kids with such a person? I feel like if things got extreme, she'd call the cops or threaten to take everything in a divorce. Certainly it feels like my balls would be on a chopping block everyday. And I don't see WHAT I can do to change her behavior OR our relationship. I have told her many times that no matter how hurt she is, she cannot behave as she does, but it never registers. ------------------- In closing, the reasons I have stuck through it all are many...she was a true love of mine...those cute memories really suck me in...all the special things she did...the sex...seeing her as she was 2.5 years ago gave me hope...a loving, caring, cute, and sensitive girl...feeling that I am somewhat at a fault...all the times I was hurtful, etc... But I can honestly say I have never done anything on the magnitude of what she did to me. Her behavior for a long time has been unstable at best. To describe it, she has been melodramatic and spazzy. Moments are often very intense with her and she often acts like she cannot handle the thoughts and feelings she has. Many times she states she wants to jump from my bedroom window or 'die on her way home from my place.' I have looked up BPD and emotional manipulative disorder and she does fit EMD very easily. I cannot say for sure about BPD. I will say this situation has begun to affect me. If I get to the point of fighting, I will lash out with a very venomous tongue. Times that she gets physical I have to do everything I can to hold back. One time I did spank her because she slapped me and dug her nails into my arms. Its to the point I don't even know if Love is left. I hoped a 180 degree change might help, but I doubt it is possible. Thanks, DV.
txsilkysmoothe Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 Wow!!! I do not believe your xgf will ever change. This is not immaturity. She is spoiled - by her own self-centeredness I imagine. This can happen with beautiful people if they aren't careful. She sounds extremely shallow and superficial. She apparently can put on a facade for others to think you should marry her. People who can do that have always made me uneasy. Her behavior and treatment of you is not love. To be with the one you love should be enough, doing whatever, together. Jumping through hoops and never being able to satisfy her - no amount of beauty is worth that. Run!
Author DolceVenganza Posted January 15, 2010 Author Posted January 15, 2010 Thank you, TXSS! I appreciate your response. I tried at least smoothing over the past few weeks and that only lead to her meltdown/panic attack/blackout situation (supposedly). Earlier during work we had talked. As I am the kind of person that will get over something, eventually, in my own time, especially if someone acknowledges wrong doing, I was speaking to her but keeping space. We had had a bad go at this past weekend, even though according her we were split up, I was 'doing my own thing.' Evidently, she didn't like that. She felt that if we could talk at all, we should be making plans. I did not feel the same way. She was upset tonight and told me 'not to talk her' if I wasn't going right over to see her. (I take such behavior as childish). Rather than talk about anything, she seems to use kiddie behavior to defend her position. Her fb message was about feeling awful so at the very least I called to check in on her. As it turns out it was about us. I feel in part her FB msg was to draw attention to her feelings and perhaps garner some support or people reaching out. Needless to say, I called her to find out what was wrong and if I could do anything. Bad idea. Despite her behavior last weekend, she said 'we are done.' So last weekend she was super pissed b/c I went to Maine without her on the premise we were done and she was ignoring me and this week we were acting as if we were together. Which is it? Moreover, bringing up ANYTHING about the events from the last few weeks creates the automatic reaction in her to become defensive, aggressive, possibly have a panic attack and go somewhat nuts. Normally she flings back into my face all my wrong doings. I am no angel, but I also do not go out of my way to hurt, disrespect or cause pain to another person, enemy or not and I'd like to think I don't have enemies. Even if we were to be friends, I wanted to be there and come to put the past behind us, perhaps talk over and forgive each other. She opted for not talking to me, saying her life is miserable because of us. I don't get how? I guess it is me at this point. She wants to be with me provided I don't bring up what happened. I can't be with her unless she acknowledges what she did wrong (if I could ever again). There's just too much pain. I was remembering a night right after XMAS (Saturday night) that I spent with my father and brother. My brother mind you has lived in DC for the past 3 years, so I have not seen him more than twice a year and he has not spent XMAS with us since he left, so I made a purpose to spend alot of time with him. My father is also heading in for heart surgery in a few weeks, so I am coming to value my time with people who care MUCH MUCH MORE. And keep in mind, this was just a few days after her EXPLOSION before XMAS, so I was in no place to take time from my family for her. I figured a popular pretty girl like her, with a tight knight family, could find things to do. I was wrong. She was super pissed I was playing risk my dad and brother and watching the Hangover. She couldn't believe I wasn't over at her place or making plans to go out, since I hadn't seen her since XMAS eve. That, and she was 'so hurt about not seeing me on XMAS.' That wasn't entirely my fault... 1) We hosted XMAS @ my parents house, so I was helping. 2) I had drank alot there. 3) It was a huge party, why would I leave? 4) She could have come over, but used the excuse I didn't invite her early enough. 5) My vehicle was blocked in heavily and being near buzzed/drunk, I was not driving. Mind you, my brother's fiance was 8 hours away in DC doing just fine, but my gf/xgf is only 20 minutes away flipping out, not drunk in the least, and has the ability to drive over. Instead I spent my time texting and hanging with family. I guess my answers are in these pages, but I had to read them catalogue them so maybe I will wake up. It has been like this for 2+ years. It is the memories of how things were that get me and the disbelief that it could get this bad that keeps me going to fix it. That, and I feel 'invested' in my identity to right this. We were good people. I remember being 24 when I met her, 25 when we began dating, and going to church. Sitting here near 30 boggles my mind that we could be so psycho and often doubt myself if it is ALL me. But then I see ALL the miserable marriages around, near divorces, or multiple divorcess and I realize, had we bought a house or had a dog or baby, things would be VERY sticky and dicey to split up, so maybe I'm lucky?
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