bully at work place.

[Star Gazer]

I don't know how to take this. But then, English is not my first language. Does this mean that he has the right to abuse me?

 

In word, yes. In the jurisdictions I'm familiar with, nothing you've described in your posts amounts to unlawful behavior. His management style certainly isn't favorable, but it's not illegal.

 

You may have a very weak workers' compensation claim, but that's about it.

[carhill]

Oh, a doctor. LOL, he'll screw up eventually and all those funny sensations in his ass won't be his ben-wa balls

[whitecaps]

In word, yes. In the jurisdictions I'm familiar with, nothing you've described in your posts amounts to unlawful behavior. His management style certainly isn't favorable, but it's not illegal.

 

You may have a very weak workers' compensation claim, but that's about it.

 

I am not going for a worker's comp claim. I want to go after his company and my place of work for not providing me(and others) with a harrassment free environment. So, in your opinion, you do not think I have a case? I am just wondering.

[whitecaps]

Oh, a doctor. LOL, he'll screw up eventually and all those funny sensations in his ass won't be his ben-wa balls

 

Yes, he is a MD. There are a few nurses that have left because of his abuse and the adm are very well aware of it. One named him by name during her exist interview. Adm did not do anything about it.

[Star Gazer]

I am not going for a worker's comp claim. I want to go after his company and my place of work for not providing me(and others) with a harrassment free environment. So, in your opinion, you do not think I have a case? I am just wondering.

 

Correct, IMO you do not have a case, based on what you've said.

 

The harassment must be because of your gender, race, or other protected category (age, religion, etc.). The "harassment" you describe is not because of a protected category. Rather, from what you've described, the guy is an arse across the board - to you, to your coworkers, even to your own boss.

 

The attorney you spoke with previously said the same thing. Go ahead and shop around, but I don't see anything worth pursuing here.

 

Nevertheless, make sure you follow their internal reporting procedure to the very last detail, otherwise they have a very good defense that they couldn't possibly investigate/repair the problem because you didn't follow the necessary steps.

[carhill]

Also, it doesn't hurt to get political dirt on the doc and his CEO. These type always have skeletons in their closets. If you have to stay, make it profitable. Follow those reporting procedures to the letter. Your decorum must be impeccable. Network with the other nurses and staff. Line everything up. No inconsistencies.

 

A hostile work environment, if complaints are on the record and consistent across staffing lines, and such an environment being ignored by HR and/or the CEO, can be a successful legal action to undertake. Be sure to document damages. Judges like relevant documents

 

Personally, I'd just change jobs, but that's me. I don't work for asshats, whether they be employers or customers.

[Star Gazer]

A hostile work environment...

 

...CANNOT be based on simple complaints (no matter how often!) about a boss just being a jerk. What the OP has described is NOT actionable.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Star Gazer

[carhill]

SG, I believe you advocate for employers, correct?

 

If so, it makes sense that you won't support the employee perspective, rather support actions which serve to mitigate and disprove it. I have a really good lawyer and understand such perspectives well. I like that in a lawyer.

 

However, by invalidating the OP's perspective, and not offering methodologies of support, it seems you would just like her to put her head down and live with the 'jerk'. She doesn't have to do that. She can create, along with others, an environment that can/will result in legal action against her employer. She just has to be smarter than them. Doctors are pretty smart. I give them that. They are also generally pretty arrogant. That means they'll make mistakes. Then they get theirs. Oh, I so love a cold day

[Star Gazer]

SG, I believe you advocate for employers, correct?

 

Historically speaking, I've done more work for management, yes. I'm about 60/40, management/employee. But right now, my work is about 80/20 employee/management. So no, there's no bias here.

 

However, by invalidating the OP's perspective, and not offering methodologies of support, it seems you would just like her to put her head down and live with the 'jerk'. She doesn't have to do that. She can create, along with others, an environment that can/will result in legal action against her employer.

 

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

I did provide the methodologies that support my opinion. I specifically stated that a hostile work environment/harassment claim must be based on conduct which occurs because of someone's protected class - his/her gender, race, age, nationality, sexual orientation, etc. She has made no such reference, nor can one be inferred from what she said. Rather, it is abundantly clear that the guy is treating her poorly simply because he's an ego-drivem jerk with a very poor management style. He categorically treats everyone the same. He's an arse.

 

Thus, there is no legal claim to be made here. There just isn't. And no plaintiff's attorney would take such a case, for fear of being sanctioned by the court and the state bar for filing a frivolous claim for which there is no probable cause.

 

And I never said she just needs to put up with him. But her options do NOT include a lawsuit. She can either learn to work productively with him (ala Taramere's suggestions) or she can leave. Further, she cannot create the environment that results in legal action. The jerk and employer have to create that environment - and here, they simply haven't.

[ADF]

You may well have legal recourse. It sounds like you have been subjected to a hostile working environment, which may be a cause of action. Talk to a tort lawyer in your area.

[carhill]

My best friend was sued for exactly that reason (hostile work environment) and chose to settle rather than face the costs of trial. He has a very good lawyer, one who's represented his company for nearly 30 years. The employee was female. The jurisdiction was California, which is where you practice. Suit was brought and settled for a substantial sum. What did she do right? She claimed hostile work environment based on her gender. She experienced claimed health issues much like the OP. She went on disability. Ultimately it led to her termination due to extended disability from being able to perform her job.

 

BTW, the OP has never had a face-to-face consultation with an attorney. I don't know where you got that impression. In fact, at my suggestion, which apparently aligns with her husband's, she says she wants to. Another poster went on to suggest to her what to bring to the consultation. If, in her jurisdiction, such an action is seen as frivolous, the lawyer will advise her as such. The lawyer will also advise her of other scenarios which can officially or unofficially be advantageous to her. Perhaps ideas or methodologies will be suggested which none of us have thought of yet. Her goal is to end her health issues and job-related stress. I suggested leaving, but she wants other avenues to pursue. It's a support and advice forum

[freestyle]

 

And I am angry at the whole situation, I am angry at the bully, and I am angry at administration that they are not even calling and speaking with me. And I am angry that this bully would blatantly ignore me when we are recussitating a patient and I am at the bedside asking him what instrument he wants me to pass. I am angry that he blantantly will not take my help when a patient's life is at stake and call out for another nurse who is busy with her own patient... You bet I am angry....

 

 

Wow, this is absolutely atrocious! If the bully in question is actually an MD, and he's allowing his personal grudges to interfere with the care of a patient in a crisis situation, that's way out of line.

 

If I was in that position I'd be reporting him to whatever authorities monitor the conduct of physicians, before another patient's well-being could be jeapordized.

 

It's just mind-boggling to me.

[H1N1]

Based on what I've read, I think that SG's conclusion is correct: there is probably no cause for filing a hostile work environment claim, particularly if the alleged violator is an equal-opportunity douche.

 

I think the best solution is to keep doing your job and find another one as soon as possible. The ugly reality is, you're not going to change anything. The very fact that management has allowed this situation to fester as long as it has tells you all you need to know. It seems like you're probably working in a large, bureaucratic company and you're working around someone who knows how to game the system and use it to his advantage. I can't stand people like this, but it's the wussy management that makes the situation even worse - they are just as much the problem as the bully is.

 

And that brings me to the ultimate question: other than the fact that it pays the bills, why on earth would you want to continue working for this company? Be demanding of your employers. If they don't give you the support that you want, then ditch them. Do it as quietly, amicably, and professionally as possible, but fire them. Employment is always a two-way street. The moment you begin thinking otherwise is the moment you become "an employee", and a bullied one at that.

[whitecaps]

Wow, this is absolutely atrocious! If the bully in question is actually an MD, and he's allowing his personal grudges to interfere with the care of a patient in a crisis situation, that's way out of line.

 

If I was in that position I'd be reporting him to whatever authorities monitor the conduct of physicians, before another patient's well-being could be jeapordized.

 

It's just mind-boggling to me.

 

This has been reported to my charge nurse, my assistant director and the director is also aware. When I was blindside and was called into a meeting with the assistant director for something I didn't do and was told when I got into her office that the bully was going to be there, in that meeting, I did confront him about how he was holding a grudge and putting patients in danger. MD blatantly stated that the meeting is not to point fingers at each other and he is after all the MD and he can do whatever he wants. To this, my assistant director and the charge nurse could not nodd their heads fast enough in agreement.

[whitecaps]

Based on what I've read, I think that SG's conclusion is correct: there is probably no cause for filing a hostile work environment claim, particularly if the alleged violator is an equal-opportunity douche.

 

I think the best solution is to keep doing your job and find another one as soon as possible. The ugly reality is, you're not going to change anything. The very fact that management has allowed this situation to fester as long as it has tells you all you need to know. It seems like you're probably working in a large, bureaucratic company and you're working around someone who knows how to game the system and use it to his advantage. I can't stand people like this, but it's the wussy management that makes the situation even worse - they are just as much the problem as the bully is.

 

And that brings me to the ultimate question: other than the fact that it pays the bills, why on earth would you want to continue working for this company? Be demanding of your employers. If they don't give you the support that you want, then ditch them. Do it as quietly, amicably, and professionally as possible, but fire them. Employment is always a two-way street. The moment you begin thinking otherwise is the moment you become "an employee", and a bullied one at that.

 

Well, this is very depressing. To think that he is going to get away with doing this to people, I just don't want to believe that there are no recourse.

 

To answer your question, I am on illness leave due to the stress and my MD wants me to go on a short term disability. During this time, she has advised me to get another job and get the "hell" out of there. I don't have any intension of going back to that facility except to get my belongings and leave my badge behind.

 

And yes, it is one of the biggest corporate hsp, main office is Tennessee. I hope the union gets voted in.

[Mary3]

The True Reality :

 

Lawyers are expensive ( Unless you get one that would represent you on a contingency . Highly unlikely, unless you are Erin Brockdonvich and you see a huge chemical spill being disguised in the back parking lot...... ( OSHA )

 

SG is truly correct though , your employer would have to be treating you outrageously because you are old , black , asian , disabled , or any of the other protected classes and you could prove it. ( examples only. )

 

SO far you have a jerk for a boss...not illegal in most senses...

 

The Next Reality : YOU decide you have had enough , can't take it anymore and go to HR. And go to HR. and go to HR. Guess who is going to be considered a pain in the arse and WHO they will decide needs to Go ? YOU.

 

If I were you I would look for new employment and leave this jerko~boss behind.

 

Now if they harassed you because you were pregnant or on an FMLA you might have something..

[carhill]

Get them to falsely accuse you of something which threatens your license. There's damages right there. People on ego trips sometimes forget that they can die too. Remind them

 

Lawyers are expensive ( Unless you get one that would represent you on a contingency . Highly unlikely, unless you are Erin Brockdonvich and you see a huge chemical spill being disguised in the back parking lot...... ( OSHA )

Great story, and this is where a lawyer can flesh out all kinds of scenarios to achieve the goal, which is, drum roll, to have a non-hostile workplace. You'd be surprised what a call to the EPA and the fire department can do. BTDT. They're not as invincible as you think.

 

OP, your company is huge. 28 billion in sales last year. They want you to have a healthy and safe place to work. They do.

Edited December 21, 2009 by carhill

[Star Gazer]

She claimed hostile work environment based on her gender.

 

Ding ding ding! BASED ON her gender! THAT was the key in THAT case. As I said multiple times now, the harassment/discrimination/whatever has to be BECAUSE OF a protected class (i.e., BECAUSE OF the protected class [in your example, the protected class was her gender]).

 

Here, on the other hand, OP is female, and is being treated the same as her MALE boss. There can be no discrimination/harassment BASED ON GENDER when the alleged harasser/discriminator is treating members of each gender THE SAME.

 

Do you understand yet?

[Star Gazer]

...the alleged violator is an equal-opportunity douche.

 

Precisely right. He's not being a douche based on, or because of, her gender, or anything else. He's an arse across the board.

 

Why are people so litigious? It amazes me...

[D-Lish]

Why are people so litigious? It amazes me...

 

I think it's the "American way":cool: You offend me in any way- I'm going to sue you.

[NINEBREAKER]

i'm sure you could sue if you had evidence. first talk to your lawyer about this.

 

you can buy spy cams to record these things. its not so much the stuff you find on movies. you can buy this stuff online

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/533590-REG/Bolide_Technology_Group_BC1012_BC1012_Color_Button_Hidden.html

 

theres a few that record sound too.

 

this would be wonderful in court.

[carhill]

Do you understand yet?

 

Lady, I understand far better than you know. I've been in business for 25 years.

 

The evidence can be manufactured. It was. The numbers were crunched and it was cheaper to settle than pay for legal and court costs. A business decision was made. Yes, to the person who mentioned it, Americans are a litigious society. Unfortunately, it's the way we get things done. Everything is adversarial. SG's job depends on that. It's why my legal costs are what they are.

 

As I said, a good lawyer can suggest other non-legal remedies, on and off the record. I hope the OP takes advantage of all avenues available to effect the change in her hostile workplace.

[Taramere]

Well, this is very depressing. To think that he is going to get away with doing this to people, I just don't want to believe that there are no recourse.

 

I do feel for you. A stressful workplace can really leave its mark.

 

You could ask your lawyer about the possibility of raising what's called a common law action, if there's no US employment legislation that's helpful to you. Essentially, people ower eachother a basic common law duty of care to avoid harmful acts and omissions. Where someone negligently, recklessly or in some other unreasonable manner breaches their duty of care to you, and you suffer harm as a direct result of their act/omission - and harm which should have been foreseeable to any reasonable person - then potentially they can be held liable for all losses you incur as a result of the harm caused to you.

 

The company is vicariously liable for all employees' behaviour while they are acting in the course of their employment. If you tell the company, providing medical evidence, that you are suffering health problems and that your doctor is of the view that your health problems are the direct result of this guy's behaviour, then they'll go on the "potentially litigious employee" alert. Or they should do.

 

They might respond by offering to arrange confidential counselling for you (especially if it's a medical set up - I'm sure they have easy access to those facilities) and may also want to have one of their company doctors examine you. As far as the guy goes...I guess they could send him on some kind of additional people-management-skills training. Or they might suggest mediation as an option to try to improve the relationship. Or, assuming you're fit and able, they might try to redeploy you somewhere else, so that you're not working with him.

 

Bear in mind that I'm talking from a European perspective not a US one....but the common law duty of care is a universal principle. The question for the employer would be, what reasonable action could they take to ensure that your health isn't being jeopardised by working with this man. See the kind of measures I've mentioned above. If you weren't to co-operate with the employer's efforts to create a healthier working environment for you, then that would naturally go against you.

 

Examples of someone not co-operating might be, for instance, where an employee had a fixed idea of how they wanted the problem resolved. EG "I want him sacked. He's a bully, and he shouldn't be here - nothing else is acceptable to me."

 

Generally, I think your best bet would be to think in terms of trying to get a compromise agreement drawn up, with you getting some pay off from the company...and you could ask a lawyer about the feasibility of this. Even if you have a stateable case under common law, litigation is a real last resort. If this guy's behaviour is stressing you out so much that you're becoming ill, then you have to consider what impact court action would be liable to have on you. A couple of years down the line, and you might think that what went on at work was a breeze compared to the feeling of plummeting into that abyss of litigation....where legal fees build up with lightning speed, and the gung ho attitude so many pursuers start out with drains away.

 

It's not something to be entered into lightly. Easy for other people to egg you on into a scrap. They're not the ones who would have to see it through to the bitter end, and risk having an award of expenses made against them if the court desides there's no merit to the action.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Taramere

[H1N1]

My philosophy is that the time spent trying to hurt the company and one's tormentors would be better spent trying to move on and improving the quality of life. When nothing else works, and you've got nothing to lose, when time and money are spent and no longer really matter, yeah, go to war.

[Star Gazer]

Lady, I understand far better than you know. I've been in business for 25 years.

 

Not as a lawyer though, correct?

 

The evidence can be manufactured. It was.

 

Ohhh.... I see now. She and her attorney were unethical!!! And you're encouraging unethical conduct!! Well then, we're comparing apples and oranges here, because I am assuming that the OP is an ethical person!

 

Besides that, I've read several posts over the past few days from you encouraging people to sue. No good can come from being a vexatious litigant.