Question for OW from BW

[PhoenixRise]

Oh I don't think that's neccessarily so, only because cheating as a way to be happier staying in an unfilfilling marriage isn't on the BS's radar. She will be locking herself in without a parachute. Who would want to volunteer for guaranteed emptiness? On the other hand, the MM already knows he can have it both ways, and after being busted once, he can cover his tracks better the second time, and the third. So he can say he's staying for the kids, and he might be - he just isn't giving anything up to do it wheras the BS would actually be making a sacrifice.

 

 

You know....there are many many wives (I am one of them) who do not believe for even one nano second that I would be empty without my H in my life.

 

I had a great life before I married him. If he cheated again or even if he just got run over by a bus tomorrow i would mourn and I would move on. I am still relatively young. I would have a great life after him. No Doubt.

 

AND I say this knowing that I love him dearly and losing him would hurt like hell. BUT EMPTY??? Not a chance in hell.

 

AND if there is anything that my H knows for sure at this point it is that he CAN NOT have it both ways.

[Brokenlady]

You know....there are many many wives (I am one of them) who do not believe for even one nano second that I would be empty without my H in my life.

 

I had a great life before I married him. If he cheated again or even if he just got run over by a bus tomorrow i would mourn and I would move on. I am still relatively young. I would have a great life after him. No Doubt.

 

AND I say this knowing that I love him dearly and losing him would hurt like hell. BUT EMPTY??? Not a chance in hell.

 

AND if there is anything that my H knows for sure at this point it is that he CAN NOT have it both ways.

 

Right, but you didn't stay with your husband after the affair "just for the kids". I was speaking of BW's contemplating doing that - it would be volunteering for emptiness, which is why I wouldn't think it would be an attractive choice. The MM can "stay for kids" without sacrificing much, he'll just get craftier at cheating.

[NoIDidn't]

The MM can "stay for kids" without sacrificing much, he'll just get craftier at cheating.

 

The more that the bolded or some version of it is typed, the more I'm starting to see a clear projection being used by MM that is believed by most OW.

 

MM is the one staying "for the lifestyle" that he loves so much, not the BW.

 

But when she does it, its negative. Yet, when he does it, its a sacrifice.

 

LMFAO!

 

What a racket! How can you find someone that is willing to believe that your W is evil for staying for the "lifestyle" that you afford her (supposedly, anyway) when its this man actually complaining about having less money, less time with his kids, less this and less that?

 

Seriously, I'm certain that many a MM and BW do, in fact, stay together for the kids. But for totally different reasons.

 

A BW might do it to make sure that she is the major female influence on her kids. She doesn't want a person that was willing to injure their family having any influence over her children.

 

A MM might do it because he's just trying to avoid paying child support.

 

But, *she's* the one staying for the "lifestyle" . What a hoot!

[PhoenixRise]

Right, but you didn't stay with your husband after the affair "just for the kids". I was speaking of BW's contemplating doing that - it would be volunteering for emptiness, which is why I wouldn't think it would be an attractive choice. The MM can "stay for kids" without sacrificing much, he'll just get craftier at cheating.

 

 

OK I see the point you were making.

 

 

BUT she would be volunteering for emptiness unless she decided to have a fabulous life regardless of the state of her irreconcilable marriage. Maybe switch careers, maybe get passionate about hobbies, maybe travel, maybe explore her creativity= write books, paint, sing, make new friends etc. Maybe have discreet affairs of her own.

 

She is staying for the kids...yes...but Who says she will continue to be the good little wifey that the initially H cheated on?

 

Affairs can change people on all sides of the triangle

[Brokenlady]

OK I see the point you were making.

 

 

BUT she would be volunteering for emptiness unless she decided to have a fabulous life regardless of the state of her irreconcilable marriage. Maybe switch careers, maybe get passionate about hobbies, maybe travel, maybe explore her creativity= write books, paint, sing, make new friends etc. Maybe have discreet affairs of her own.

 

She is staying for the kids...yes...but Who says she will continue to be the good little wifey that the initially H cheated on?

 

Affairs can change people on all sides of the triangle

 

True, but again, I just don't think it's a good thing if the parties are only sticking around "for the kids". Why bother? I mean, there ought to be something about the marriage worth keeping to stay in it, IMO.

[Brokenlady]

The more that the bolded or some version of it is typed, the more I'm starting to see a clear projection being used by MM that is believed by most OW.

 

MM is the one staying "for the lifestyle" that he loves so much, not the BW.

 

What? That wasn't what I was trying to get across at all. Maybe this will help - BS's don't have cheating on the radar as a coping mechanism, MM do. So likely the MM will keep cheating (sacrificing nothing himself) if he chooses to stay for whatever reason. But the BS, having no OM on the side, just gets shafted if she decides to stay solely "for the kids". Is that any clearer?

 

But when she does it, its negative. Yet, when he does it, its a sacrifice.

 

I think staying in a marriage for lifestyle is total crap no matter who is doing that. I'm sure it happens sometimes though.

 

A BW might do it to make sure that she is the major female influence on her kids. She doesn't want a person that was willing to injure their family having any influence over her children.

 

A MM might do it because he's just trying to avoid paying child support.

 

But, *she's* the one staying for the "lifestyle" . What a hoot!

 

Yeah I don't doubt that. Crappy of the MM if that's the case. And sad for the BW either way.

[Virgo1982]

The more that the bolded or some version of it is typed, the more I'm starting to see a clear projection being used by MM that is believed by most OW.

 

MM is the one staying "for the lifestyle" that he loves so much, not the BW.

 

But when she does it, its negative. Yet, when he does it, its a sacrifice.

 

LMFAO!

 

What a racket! How can you find someone that is willing to believe that your W is evil for staying for the "lifestyle" that you afford her (supposedly, anyway) when its this man actually complaining about having less money, less time with his kids, less this and less that?

 

Seriously, I'm certain that many a MM and BW do, in fact, stay together for the kids. But for totally different reasons.

 

A BW might do it to make sure that she is the major female influence on her kids. She doesn't want a person that was willing to injure their family having any influence over her children.

 

A MM might do it because he's just trying to avoid paying child support.

 

But, *she's* the one staying for the "lifestyle" . What a hoot!

 

It's all a hoot NID. If H & W split without so much bitterness and animosity, things would be different. If a man is staying so he won't pay child support, he is not a good provider. My cousin got full custody of his daughter. He and the mother get along fine. Problem solved.

 

Question is, do you love your H/W/children enough to let your H/W go peacefully? Most don't and that is also a hoot. Is it worse to be in an affair or in a dead M that neither person wants to revive/leave?

 

What kills me is the vengeful person who does whatever they can to make divorce unpleasant for all parties involved and says they are so worried about the children. Yet, while the emotional scars of their children continue to fester and grow, the divorce is inevitable.

[NoIDidn't]

What? That wasn't what I was trying to get across at all. Maybe this will help - BS's don't have cheating on the radar as a coping mechanism, MM do. So likely the MM will keep cheating (sacrificing nothing himself) if he chooses to stay for whatever reason. But the BS, having no OM on the side, just gets shafted if she decides to stay solely "for the kids". Is that any clearer?

 

 

I'm sorry, Brokenlady. I wasn't addressing your post at all. What I posted was on topic, but not on what you were posting about.

 

I just noticed a trend and since you were the last to say it, I quoted you.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[NoIDidn't]

It's all a hoot NID. If H & W split without so much bitterness and animosity, things would be different. If a man is staying so he won't pay child support, he is not a good provider. My cousin got full custody of his daughter. He and the mother get along fine. Problem solved.

 

Question is, do you love your H/W/children enough to let your H/W go peacefully? Most don't and that is also a hoot. Is it worse to be in an affair or in a dead M that neither person wants to revive/leave?

 

What kills me is the vengeful person who does whatever they can to make divorce unpleasant for all parties involved and says they are so worried about the children. Yet, while the emotional scars of their children continue to fester and grow, the divorce is inevitable.

 

Virgo,

 

Yes, it IS a hoot to see women/men pull the wool over their own eyes and be SOOOOOO biased against a person that they only HEAR about. All while claiming to know that person personally.

 

This is what I was talking about. All the animosity towards the betrayed based on that "lifestyle" comment thrown out by a cheating man about his W's motivations for staying married to him ALL while he is SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING (and not even knowing what the BW is feeling to begin with because he's too afraid to ask!).

 

I'm sorry you don't find it funny. I find it quite eye opening to see through the delusions of some (the MM AND the OW) and how they convince each other as a mechanism for convincing THEMSELVES of believing lies. Either, that or I could cry that people waste their lives chasing phantoms to begin with.

 

Don't you find it interesting that a BW is judged for her supposed desire to maintain a lifestyle, when the MM is basically doing THE EXACT SAME THING? Or is this just another case of the obvious hypocrisy of the OW because its only bad if the BW is claimed to be doing it, but the MM is NOBLE for doing it? Hmmmmmmm?

[PhoenixRise]

True, but again, I just don't think it's a good thing if the parties are only sticking around "for the kids". Why bother? I mean, there ought to be something about the marriage worth keeping to stay in it, IMO.

 

 

I agree with you. I think when MM say this it is just an excuse for why they are not leaving.

[lori22]

I have come to the conclusion that when a MM say's he is staying for the "kids" is a bunch of BULLSHHHHH**.It is such a easy cop out.

[Virgo1982]

Virgo,

 

Yes, it IS a hoot to see women/men pull the wool over their own eyes and be SOOOOOO biased against a person that they only HEAR about. All while claiming to know that person personally.

 

This is what I was talking about. All the animosity towards the betrayed based on that "lifestyle" comment thrown out by a cheating man about his W's motivations for staying married to him ALL while he is SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING (and not even knowing what the BW is feeling to begin with because he's too afraid to ask!).

 

I'm sorry you don't find it funny. I find it quite eye opening to see through the delusions of some (the MM AND the OW) and how they convince each other as a mechanism for convincing THEMSELVES of believing lies. Either, that or I could cry that people waste their lives chasing phantoms to begin with.

 

Don't you find it interesting that a BW is judged for her supposed desire to maintain a lifestyle, when the MM is basically doing THE EXACT SAME THING? Or is this just another case of the obvious hypocrisy of the OW because its only bad if the BW is claimed to be doing it, but the MM is NOBLE for doing it? Hmmmmmmm?

 

Yes, but I understand why each party has their perception. Just like a BS who stays with the partner has a different perception than one who leaves. Just like a OW/OM has a different perception depending on the status/ending of their affair. Just like a S has a different perception depending on what their needs are and what options they feel are best/easiest for them/their family.

 

Furthermore, the hypocrisy you speak of is also in your rebuttal. If they're staying in the M to maintain a lifestyle, who cares if they see other people? It is irrational. (people lie to themselves to make themselves feel better) And if one side of the M is great without someone having a 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8 year affair on the side and one S just wants to maintain a lifestyle-man or woman-who cares? After all, they don't love the OP. It doesn't mean anything. And apparently the S doesn't mean that much to the "lifestyle spouse."

 

For example, Steve Phillips is caught when psycho OW stalked his family. His W knew he had several affairs, but stayed for whatever reason. Then comes the bunny boiler... This thing is all over the internet with police documents and pictures. Then, she files for divorce. If she was staying for the kids, she would have been better of divorcing him before. While I am not suggesting she should've seen it coming, I think it's a hoot when an OW/OM says it is better to divorce than to live with people in a dead M, and somebody blasts them.

 

Once again, it's all perception.

[Virgo1982]

Virgo,

 

 

Don't you find it interesting that a BW is judged for her supposed desire to maintain a lifestyle, when the MM is basically doing THE EXACT SAME THING? Or is this just another case of the obvious hypocrisy of the OW because its only bad if the BW is claimed to be doing it, but the MM is NOBLE for doing it? Hmmmmmmm?

 

BTW, if you haven't noticed, I'm all about equal opportunity. Once again, it's all a hoot.

 

For example, when a MP realizes the jig is up and they go into hibernation phase, when they tell you they weren't in love with the AP, were they lying to you or the AP? And when they contact the AP to use them after the dust settles, when they should probably find someone new, when they say they love and miss them, are they lying to the AP or were they true to you?

 

These MM/MW are an entertaining bunch.

[turnstone]

IMO, it's more often the case that the MM begs the wife to take him back

 

I can certainly testify to that.

 

If we had had children together I would still have left but I would have taken them with me. I'm positive he wouldn't have fought me for custody.

 

However, I can totally understand a BW not wanting another woman's influence in her children's life and so staying to prevent that from happening.

[wheelwright]

If a couple stay together for the sake of the kids, then will generally work on the M for the sake of them too. The M won't be entirely loveless. There will be happy family times etc. There is often a regaining of intimacy after DDay. I suspect the minds of MM/MW are not as logical or calculating as this thread suggests.

 

A lot of emotion is involved - guilt, family love, fear of the unknown, a need for safety in the face of emotional upheaval, fear of love for the OM/OW (because if the marriage was loveless, then this person originally chose this, they found it safer), an understanding that they married this person because they knew they would be a good parent for their children, fear that divorce will kill their kids' happiness etc.

 

And staying for the lifestyle means more than just a nice house etc. It means the lifestyle of being in a committed relationship with the co-parent of your children.

 

So even if we say MM/MW/BS stays for lifestyle and kids, this doesn't mean it is cold or calculating. It doesn't necessarily mean the kids will suffer.

 

And I think we should credit all parties with the ability to see the complexity of the issues at hand.

 

Instead of slamming people for their stupidity in believing what MM/MW say to APs all the time. I'm staying for the sake of the children = I want to remain in a committed family with my wife and kids. This is better for us all. Even though I love you, I would feel a bigger rat for abandoning my family than I feel for abandoning you.

 

Or as my xMM said to me, 'I would rather everyone in my family were reasonably happy than just me ecstatic'.

 

And I have no doubt that his BS also valued the committed family together thing.

[Virgo1982]

If a couple stay together for the sake of the kids, then will generally work on the M for the sake of them too. The M won't be entirely loveless. There will be happy family times etc. There is often a regaining of intimacy after DDay. I suspect the minds of MM/MW are not as logical or calculating as this thread suggests.

 

A lot of emotion is involved - guilt, family love, fear of the unknown, a need for safety in the face of emotional upheaval, fear of love for the OM/OW (because if the marriage was loveless, then this person originally chose this, they found it safer), an understanding that they married this person because they knew they would be a good parent for their children, fear that divorce will kill their kids' happiness etc.

 

And staying for the lifestyle means more than just a nice house etc. It means the lifestyle of being in a committed relationship with the co-parent of your children.

 

So even if we say MM/MW/BS stays for lifestyle and kids, this doesn't mean it is cold or calculating. It doesn't necessarily mean the kids will suffer.

 

And I think we should credit all parties with the ability to see the complexity of the issues at hand.

 

Instead of slamming people for their stupidity in believing what MM/MW say to APs all the time. I'm staying for the sake of the children = I want to remain in a committed family with my wife and kids. This is better for us all. Even though I love you, I would feel a bigger rat for abandoning my family than I feel for abandoning you.

 

Or as my xMM said to me, 'I would rather everyone in my family were reasonably happy than just me ecstatic'.

 

And I have no doubt that his BS also valued the committed family together thing.

 

That is impossible. What are complex feelings? I prefer thinking in black and white so I can be extremely sarcastic and/or aggressive. Taunting other people makes me feel better. I guess that's pretty selfish. Oh well, at least I'm not a cheater.

[Impudent Oyster]

I have come to the conclusion that when a MM say's he is staying for the "kids" is a bunch of BULLSHHHHH**.It is such a easy cop out.

 

 

Of course it is. People with children get divorced EVERY DAY.

[Impudent Oyster]

and i dont think lifestyle is always meant to be negative.

 

i want the lifestyle of an intact family. i like the lifestyle of not having to split my kids up and share holidays and weekends. i like the lifestyle of having a husband. sure i would have more money with us together, but i wouldnt have to change my "lifestyle" in the typical sense if we divorced.

 

my xmm is wealthy. she doesnt work. hes cheated and in our state she would most likely get 60% if not more. she could live forever on that 60%, never work again, put the kids through college and not change her financial lifestyle one bit. but it would change their social lifestyle, the kids lifestyle etc.

 

dont think thats a negative thing.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think she's staying for the Lifestyle. It's 2009, over 50% of marriages end in divorce so there is no social stigma in being divorced.

 

If this woman can live comfortably and a divorce would have no negative financial impact, then she is NOT "staying for the lifestyle" because her lifestyle wouldn't change...except for the fact that she'd be free to pursue a new relationship, which is a plus.

 

If I were the OW, I wouldn't concern myself with why the wife stays, I'd be more concerned with why the MM stays. I'd be more than offended if the man I loved wouldn't get a divorce and make an honest woman of me. What an insult.

[Impudent Oyster]

You know....there are many many wives (I am one of them) who do not believe for even one nano second that I would be empty without my H in my life.

 

I had a great life before I married him. If he cheated again or even if he just got run over by a bus tomorrow i would mourn and I would move on. I am still relatively young. I would have a great life after him. No Doubt.

 

AND I say this knowing that I love him dearly and losing him would hurt like hell. BUT EMPTY??? Not a chance in hell.

 

AND if there is anything that my H knows for sure at this point it is that he CAN NOT have it both ways.

 

I agree with you 100%. I also agree with your previous post where you say you would never want to stay married to a man who was staying just for the kids.

 

I want a man to be married to me because he wants to be with ME, and for no other reason. I would never be with a man who wasn't in it for love.

[OWoman]

If a couple stay together for the sake of the kids, then will generally work on the M for the sake of them too. The M won't be entirely loveless. There will be happy family times etc.

 

 

Not IME.

 

HN, to answer your original question, as a child of parents "who stayed together for the kids"... Did I think better of EITHER of them for doing so? No. I thought they were both selfish, frightened and manipulative - I resented then for denying us a shot at a "happy" childhood with happy (but separate) parents. Instead, we had to cope with YEARS of brooding, sulking, martyrdom - interspersed with tantrums and hysteria (from my mother) and increasing withdrawal (from my father). And, because neither of THEM were leaving, I left home as soon as I could, though my brother went into classic "failure to launch" as his coping strategy since he knew that the minute he left, they'd separate and he felt that it was his responsibility to stay, to keep them together.

 

Nothing heroic about any of it. They might have believed they were acting nobly and in our interests, but we didn't believe that - and their behaviour didn't show it - for a second.

[whichwayisup]

Of course it is. People with children get divorced EVERY DAY.

 

Very true. I mean, (bad example, but still) just look at Jon and Kate. 8 kids and they are on the way to their D.

 

Bottomline is, if someone truly wants out of a marriage, NOTHING, not even the kids will keep them there.

[OWoman]

Very true. I mean, (bad example, but still) just look at Jon and Kate. 8 kids and they are on the way to their D.

 

Bottomline is, if someone truly wants out of a marriage, NOTHING, not even the kids will keep them there.

 

Who are Jon and Kate?

[Spark1111]

I can only speak to my own experience.

I was a fBW who was staying in a loveless marriage I couldn't get him to even want to fix. I thought, let me get the youngest securely to college and then I will examine my options because this is really lonely.

 

I had no idea his relationship with her was the reason for it all.

 

He tells her, give me five years to reach my financial goals. I will be with you, but first I have to make sure they are set up. (guilt?????? Give us oodles of money and we will let you go???) She bought it.

 

DDay, I tell him go get her. I don't want your money, your love and will never stay a second longer in this loveless relationship. I have my own money, and I do not want anyone who doesn't want me exclusively.

 

He threw her under the bus and started pursuing me.

 

Now, let me say this: She thought he was a wonderful man, kind to her son, good father material.

 

But during the 18 months of his affair, he was distant from his children, critical often, and plagued with all these psychosomatic illnesses (guilt again?) that left him absent from so many memories. A real ghost dad.

 

I picked up the slack in all areas of their lives. So, even though I did not realize it at the time, I was a BW who stayed in a loveless marriage for the sake of my youngest.

 

I am sure it was never portrayed to her in that manner. He had her convinced I was only in for the lifestyle. What lifestyle? Being essentially a single mother with no emotional support system?

 

The bottom line: A separation or divorce would have been less hurtful to our children who are young adults, then the discovery that dear old dad was a liar and a cheater who broke their mother's heart. They were shattered and lost so much respect for him. It will take a lifetime of atonement on his part to straighten that out, if it can be at all.

[PhoenixRise]

Who are Jon and Kate?

 

 

Jon and Kate are the stars of a reality show trainwreck who have 8 children through IVF and are now getting divorced.

[herenow]

BTW, if you haven't noticed, I'm all about equal opportunity. Once again, it's all a hoot.

 

For example, when a MP realizes the jig is up and they go into hibernation phase, when they tell you they weren't in love with the AP, were they lying to you or the AP? And when they contact the AP to use them after the dust settles, when they should probably find someone new, when they say they love and miss them, are they lying to the AP or were they true to you?

 

These MM/MW are an entertaining bunch.

 

I agree, a person who is having an affair can't be trusted by anyone. I think they are lying to everyone including themselves.

 

Also, IMO, the MP goes back to the former AP because he or she knows that person is willing to engage in an affair. It's easy. People who do this will say and do whatever it takes to get what they want. Kind of like a drug addict looking for a fix. Any kind of truth requires lots of work and difficult choices for all involved