Author Peaceful Guy Posted October 8, 2009 Author Posted October 8, 2009 seriously.. thanks guys, you all had pretty valid points. cut each other a little slack though.
1Angel Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) It's wrong and it doesn't work. Find more effective ways of discipline. The only time it's ok is between consenting adults in private. Edited October 9, 2009 by 1Angel
samsungxoxo Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 If I hypothetically speaking I had children, the way I see this: If I find myself losing control that I have to rely on applying physical force on them than I lost already....There are other ways. Perhaps the one exception can be if it was a life-death threatening situation, for ex: a 3 year old running across the street when you tell them not to. The kid right there could have been killed. Other than that no. And if you have to still spank them when they're like 8-10 or above, you lost the war right there. If it's a teen even worst, you won't get respect back. Hitting them just have backtalking to you? Wow.. it only shows that you care so much about what they said and you simple lost control when you could have walk away, ignore them and simply withdraw their attention until they no longer have that attitude. Do recall getting into an argument with my mother, only difference is I did hit her back. Sorry, anyone that dares hit me when I'm not even threatening their life whatsoever, will get hit back. That's the way it goes. And yes sadly this goes for my mother, father or boyfriend as well. Don't hit me and you won't get hit back in return.
JamesM Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Giving a spanking is not equivalent to losing control. I can say with open honesty that I have lost more control verbally than I ever have physically. I do not (or rather did not) give a spanking without some thought. Words on the other hand escape before it is realized what damage they can do. And then an apology is needed. Loss of control is when one feels helpless and frustrated. This does not necessarily mean that a spanking equals physical abuse....no more than a scolding has a direct connection to verbal abuse. Loss of control leads to abuse. Discipline can be very effective as well as controlled whether the discipline is a spanking, sitting in the corner, taking away privileges, or simply a scolding.
Jmina Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 swat/smack/spank/lightly swat - whatever you guys wanna call it you're hitting your child. There are DEFINITELY other ways to continue your child's development and behavior management than hitting. You don't have to hit anyone to get their attention. Child or adult. Smacking is a way adults let out their anger and frustration. Or believe that it is the only way when it clearly is not. If you were in the middle of a panic attack, or having an emotional crisis where you to were learning and growing through your adult life would you want to be 'smacked' out of it? no matter how 'light' and if it is so light then what is your point. obviously it is hard enough to startle the child. Great you've startled your child out of a tantrum. I'm sure you feel a little better for it too. I can't stress enough that it is just wrong. I teach very young children and manage just fine without 'smacking' and i have had to deal with some very unsettled, unhappy, spoilt, kids. these children are and have been able to move on from their tantrums and develop their discipline until they can control themselves while learning in the atmosphere where i work, these are the same children who go home and will be smacked where the cycle at home continues. It's wrong.
silverfish Posted October 12, 2009 Posted October 12, 2009 Well i have 'smacked' both my children although I would describe it more like a tap on the back of the knees / bottom. Most of the time it was to stop them damaging themselves, another child or even me during a fit of temper / tantrum (we're talking between 2 and 5 yrs old ). I don't think it did any harm and honestly I think it was for their own safety at the time...my anger had nothing to do with it. I did it maybe 5 or 6 times with both my kids, and it stopped them every time. A screaming kicking child is quite powerful, and can actually hurt themselves, you or younger / other children. My son bit my younger one when they were 3 and 1 on a fairly regular basis for a month or two. Don't get me wrong, I tried talking etc first, but he still kept on doing it, until I smacked him. I also work with young children and although smacking is not allowed, controlled restraining is. I've seen a kid with ADHD pinned down to stop him hurting himself and others, and it's not very nice to watch but really - talking to him, I'm sorry, but there's no way that would have stopped him
Jmina Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 restraining is different to hitting. yes, your welcome for me stating the obvious. if restraining is done to protect then why not resort to this rather than the smack. i never said you can talk your way out of a tantrum with a child who has ADHD once you have more knowledge and awareness about these things do you really think that smacking is the ONLY way as a continued form or discipline. i also see that you are not arguing from this point of view as you only resorted to 5 or 6 times when you saw your child in danger. maybe a tap on the back of the knee worked for you. I just know that in my experiences i have never had to even think of resorting to this method. i have always been focused and attentive to other ways - i also dont believe a tap on the back of the knees is a couple of times is nothing to go on about really... there comes a point where parents, careers, organisations agree to disagree as long as all basic needs rights and responsibilities are being met and of course which i would assume most people here would do as much as they can before they need to hit. my argument is that it doesnt need to be a consistant form of discipline for a heathy normal child at all. for a child with a disorder that puts him/her into a different catagory and if i didnt have to apply by certain procedures (say this was my child) i believe i would still resort to restraining. especially if it is a reoccuring problem. patience is a virtue huh Jmina Jmina
Ross PK Posted November 2, 2009 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) There's no appropriate age to spank your kids, it's abuse, end of. In Britian it's a criminal offense. Edited November 2, 2009 by Ross PK
silverfish Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 It might be a criminal offence in Britain, but plenty of people do it. Last time I was in Manchester I was on a bus and saw a man and his Grandson (I think). The Grandad clipped his grandson round the ear several times in a twenty minute journey and no one called the police. Most people over the age of 40 were brought up with adults who threatened smacking, clips round the ear, corporal punishment at school etc. Times have moved on a lot but it wasn't that long ago that it was socially acceptable to physically chastise a child. It's one of those things that will die out naturally over time, and become socially unacceptable I guess. Children aren't necessarily better behaved now though.
samsungxoxo Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Children aren't necessarily better behaved now though.Depends on how they are being raised. There are those that spanked and yet their child can turn out to be a criminal as well as those that never spanked and their child is well educated... Why assume that those spoiled brats and/or criminals turn out that way because they never got spanked.. Makes me tired hearing stupid people from old generation saying things like ''No wonder kids are rude, in our days we got the switch, belt'' or things like ''My rear bottom would be red then, kids need that''..... First their comments are disgusting to me and second why make a false assumption that spanking will always keep a kid from becoming a criminal offender versus non-spanking will make a kid be a criminal...
Ross PK Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Depends on how they are being raised. There are those that spanked and yet their child can turn out to be a criminal as well as those that never spanked and their child is well educated... Why assume that those spoiled brats and/or criminals turn out that way because they never got spanked.. Makes me tired hearing stupid people from old generation saying things like ''No wonder kids are rude, in our days we got the switch, belt'' or things like ''My rear bottom would be red then, kids need that''..... First their comments are disgusting to me and second why make a false assumption that spanking will always keep a kid from becoming a criminal offender versus non-spanking will make a kid be a criminal... Exactly, there's other ways to teach or punish kids without violence, like talking to them, or taking things away that they enjoy for a certain amount of time. I find it crazy that it's acceptable with a lot of people for a grown adult to hit a small child, whereas these same people would think a man hitting a woman is a big no no. Surely hitting a small child, your own small child is much worse and more pathetic than hitting a woman? Kids are supposed to feel protected and loved by their parents, not be in fear of them.
Ross PK Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 It might be a criminal offence in Britain, but plenty of people do it. Last time I was in Manchester I was on a bus and saw a man and his Grandson (I think). The Grandad clipped his grandson round the ear several times in a twenty minute journey and no one called the police. Most people over the age of 40 were brought up with adults who threatened smacking, clips round the ear, corporal punishment at school etc. Times have moved on a lot but it wasn't that long ago that it was socially acceptable to physically chastise a child. It's one of those things that will die out naturally over time, and become socially unacceptable I guess. Children aren't necessarily better behaved now though. People rarely do intervene. If someone is getting beat up or someone is lying on the floor, most people would just look and walk past. It doesn't mean they agree with it.
giotto Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I must admit that I have spanked my children occasionally, in the heat of the moment. It's never been an educational choice for me, i.e. applied systematically. Usually, shouting at the them did the trick... I hate violence and after spanking them I felt awful and really guilty, maybe also because my dad systematically beat me when I was a little boy...
samsungxoxo Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 People rarely do intervene. If someone is getting beat up or someone is lying on the floor, most people would just look and walk past. It doesn't mean they agree with it.Yes that's sad and maybe it's the fact that you don't want to get involve or the attacker coming after you. For example if I see a man beating a woman, I would call the cops on him or bring someone with me to stop that. But won't be coming out of no where and fighting him. No way would I pick a fight with a woman beater.... First two things can go seriously wrong.. 1) Me getting seriously hurt as guys would always have that advantage or 2) The woman telling me to mind my own business and that he has a right to hit her... that would shock me for sure...
bentnotbroken Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Athena, I agree with you. I did swat my kids when they were learning to investigate things. We lived in an older home and though I tried to child proof it, it didn't always work. So I spanked the hand when they reached for the old heaters and many electrical cords on the floors. After 12 the punishment became more effective to do the Huxtable thang. Use example. My oldest was told not to let friends in while there were no adults home, did it anyway. I put a sign in the front yard......"BNB jr. disobeyed one of the rules of the house. BNB jr, will not be receiving phone calls or visitors until this sign has been removed. Don't call!" Worked like a charm, never had that issue again. The youngest even remembered and didn't try anything.
paperchase Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I think race, culture and socio-economic status factor heavily into the debate. I wonder how many of the anti-spankers are black. I suspect not many. Even educated well-to-do blacks will spank their children in certain circumstances. I think the anti spanking movement is often misguided and relies too heavily on scientific studies as opposed to real life observations. How a child behaves is a good indication of whether that child's parents are using an effective means of discipline. I know one renown child psychologists who can't get his 4 year old to go to bed and stay there, or convince his 16 year old to address him with respect. He does not believe you should ever spank a child, in anger or otherwise. That's a reasonable position, but I take strong objection to the claim that spanking lowers the IQ of children. That's rubbish. I came from a single household family where I was raised by my mother. And while I believe the pen is mightier than the sword, had she not occasionally lifted her hand I would have run roughshod over her and over myself. As an adult I so appreciated the firm hand with which she ruled. I desperately needed it. She also sent me to schools with rigid structure and discipline where I excelled. For what it's worth, I have attended the finest schools in the country and my IQ is north of 160. I make chopped liver out of all standardized tests. Now there were times when getting spanked hurt physically, but mostly it hurt emotionally as it was a sign of extreme disapproval from someone who's approval I sought. And while I'm sure my mom did it sometimes because she lost control, seeing her lose control as a single struggling mother is what often helped me gain mine. You can only reason so much with a rambunctious young boy who thinks he's the man of the house and who lacks positive male role models. The last spanking I recall getting was in the 4th grade, but I think I got smacked once or twice after that for saying or doing something egregious. Honestly, regardless of my purported ability to reason, punishments didn't work until I was well into my teens. The most effective punishment was taking away my phone and driving privileges. And even then, I didn't behave because I agreed with my mother's position, I just weighed the importance of disagreement against the prospect of losing certain privileges. That's the kind of reasoning most teenage kids likely perform and it still stems from the threat of negative reinforcement. As a teenager, my notion of right and wrong was selfishly guided. When I got to that age I remember wishing I could get a quick slap as opposed to a drawn out punishment. Once a child can reason like this, it's definitely time to stop spanking them. Anyway, I don't want to sound like a proponent of corporal punishment. Instead, my view is that each child is different and that there is no one right way to discipline except anything that rises to the level of child abuse. Then again, many on here might think I was abused and I strongly disagree.
samsungxoxo Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I know one renown child psychologists who can't get his 4 year old to go to bed and stay there, or convince his 16 year old to address him with respect. He does not believe you should ever spank a child, in anger or otherwise.16 year-old getting spanked would be embarrassing.. If I was that age, I would file report charges.. I would feel my space was invaded..I would lose respect for them too.. Plus if a small child is hard to handle, then a 16 year-old is even worst....
Ross PK Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 16 year-old getting spanked would be embarrassing.. If I was that age, I would file report charges.. I would feel my space was invaded..I would lose respect for them too.. Plus if a small child is hard to handle, then a 16 year-old is even worst.... True, I could never respect my parent if they physically assulted me.
paperchase Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 16 year-old getting spanked would be embarrassing.. If I was that age, I would file report charges.. I would feel my space was invaded..I would lose respect for them too.. Plus if a small child is hard to handle, then a 16 year-old is even worst.... To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that he spank his 16 year old. I was suggesting that by then it was too late and that they cycle was continuing with his 4 year old.
Ross PK Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 There is a WORLD of difference between a little swat on the rear of a recalcitrant toddler and physical abuse. Do you call the cops when you get a little back handed swat on the arm by a friend after you say something naughty? So it doesn't hurt a small toddler? It doesn't shock them? It doesn't make them cry? What's the point in doing it then?
Ross PK Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) It makes them understand, in very simple terms, that whatever they are doing is wrong. There's other ways of making them understand. I don't put much weight on the parenting advice from people who have never parented . I don't need to be a parent to know that hitting a small child is wrong. If a simple swat on the behind is always "assault" in your book, then again I ask: Would you call the cops if you said something ignorant to a woman who then slapped you on the cheek? Is it possible to deserve a slap from saying something ignorant? I'm not sure, but if I did deserve the slap I'd would already know that it was my own fault and I wouldn't do anything, if I didn't deserve it I'd get very angry and give her a load of crap. Edited November 3, 2009 by Ross PK
silverfish Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 There's other ways of making them understand. I don't need to be a parent to know that hitting a small child is wrong. Is it possible to deserve a slap from saying something ignorant? I'm not sure, but if I did deserve the slap I'd would already know that it was my own fault and I wouldn't do anything, if I didn't deserve it I'd get very angry and give her a load of crap. If you got the slap then at that point you would know it was your fault maybe I am a single parent to two boys, now ages 12 & 9. I havent 'slapped' them or anything physical in years now but sure I front up to them sometimes, stand my ground and pull rank, and they can get quite aggressive at times. I know one day they will be bigger than me and that day isnt far off, my objective is and always has been to reason and build respect but also they have to understand that its me whos the head of the house, and I do have to reinforce that most days with them both. It's tough
Ross PK Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 If you got the slap then at that point you would know it was your fault maybe I am a single parent to two boys, now ages 12 & 9. I havent 'slapped' them or anything physical in years now but sure I front up to them sometimes, stand my ground and pull rank, and they can get quite aggressive at times. I know one day they will be bigger than me and that day isnt far off, my objective is and always has been to reason and build respect but also they have to understand that its me whos the head of the house, and I do have to reinforce that most days with them both. It's tough Nothing wrong with that at all silverfish.
Miss Clavel Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 if a swat on the behind brings you both up short and gives you both a moment to calm down then do it. when i did it it was mostly for huge misbehaviors, like pouring water on the VCR or something life threatening. children truly want to please their parents and they study your face during these moments. i usually said, "i don't like it, don't do it" as an alternative to saying ''No" all the time, which they tune out. i have to tell you tho, when my dd got older and i'd tell her that i didn't like something, she'd say, "well i do!''.
Ross PK Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 So you have, in fact, been physical with them in the past. Suddenly that's alright with RossPK. Surely it's not that hard to figure out what I ment?
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