Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I am very down right now. I am so tired of this burning upperback pain and sternum pain that I get pretty much on a daily basis. As many of you know(since I've posted about it) I've had just about every test in the book to rule out a major health issue. My heart, and lungs I've been told look it be in fine shape. So, here I am young, in good shape, with three beautiful small children to chase after and I feel like c***! My therapist does not believe this pain is all due to emotions. It's real pain.. but there is no answer for it. I'm sick of going to health boards as they don't help, they only make things worse. I am pleased that I have been able to work through my panic. Have not had an attack in over 3 months. So this pain is NOT panic related. I'm now beign sent to PT, but I don't have high hopes that this will work. A chriopractor makes it worse, and for that matter so does massage. This is an awful way to live and it's really getting me down. Can anyone relate? Is there anyone on here that has chronic pain with no cause found? If so how are you coping with it?? Many thanks. Mea:) 1
Citizen Erased Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I wasn't aware you were still going through pain Mea, I am sorry to hear it. Last time I checked in I thought you were aware of what was wrong...I need to learn to read! It is very frustrating when there is no answer and no end in sight to the pain. And with 3 kids to run after... I too have not been given an answer to my health problems. As you may know, I've been suffering from arthritis for quite some time...I've lost track of how long in fact. It is due to one of the many autoimmune diseases, it's which one that is the question. Lupus was the first...diagnosis? I'd rather term it assumption as they were decidedly incorrect. I've had numerous tests, numerous doctors and a scary amount of medication I have to be very careful of taking. And the answer: I have arthritis! None of the tests came back with anything conclusive and I'm currently being kept pain free by a lot of medication, the combination coming about through a lot of trial and error. I have blood and urine tests every two months to check everything is functioning normally despite the meds. For now treating the pain works but it can't last forever... I'm not sure if you have experienced this Mea, but I have become hesitant to discuss my health problems with the people in my life for fear of boring them. Because there is no answer as yet, people don't know how to react and they seem...doubtful perhaps that anything is really wrong. Like it's an overreaction, despite you being in a lot of pain. Don't know if I'm making sense... 1
carhill Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Chronic pain sucks. It's always there, like a shadow. This may sound over-simplistic, but when was the last time you slept somewhere other than you own bed? BTW, when my stbx decided it was time for us to divorce, her chronic pain suddenly 'got better'. No more complaints; much less chiropractic. She's 'happier' now with less pain. Wish I could say the same thing 1
Angel1111 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Whoa, Mea, I didn't know you had to deal with that. I'm so sorry, hon. Chronic pain has got to be the worst. You know, I think perhaps it does have something to do with emotional things because even though you have managed to stop panic attacks, your body could still be experiencing a type of 'hangover' effect from that. Panic attacks alone are a huge deal and I do believe that our emotions affect our bodies. A lot of times back issues has to do with feeling like the world is on your shoulders, so to speak. I don't know what to suggest except extreme things such as reading some things by Dr. Joe Dispenza - he has done numerous studies on the brain, but he also healed his back which had been broken. Not sure if you'd get something out of that or not. Or, I like to turn to the metaphysical world when all other answers fail. Louise Hay has written numerous things on the connection between the body and our emotions. Hope this helps.
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 I wasn't aware you were still going through pain Mea, I am sorry to hear it. Last time I checked in I thought you were aware of what was wrong...I need to learn to read! It is very frustrating when there is no answer and no end in sight to the pain. And with 3 kids to run after... No. I'm sure you read right CE. I've had many posts about my health issues.. as I've been told so many diff things by many diff docs. If anything it's left me broke and confused. I know one thing is for sure that I'm in peri-meno, a simple blood test confirmed that. So that would explain the heart palps.. and issues there. So, that is one thing I know for sure. I too have not been given an answer to my health problems. As you may know, I've been suffering from arthritis for quite some time...I've lost track of how long in fact. It is due to one of the many autoimmune diseases, it's which one that is the question. Lupus was the first...diagnosis? I'd rather term it assumption as they were decidedly incorrect. I was unaware that your were going through health stuff. I too was tested for lupus about 4 times. And get this lyme disease. I had NO tick on me. lol. I had to laugh for a minute there because I keep thinking about all the tests I've been through and still no real answer. Now, my back xray did show some osteophtyes(sp) and some degenerative disk disease. This is a common finding for a woman of my age. But, I don't think it should be causing this level of pain. I'm not sure if you have experienced this Mea, but I have become hesitant to discuss my health problems with the people in my life for fear of boring them. Because there is no answer as yet, people don't know how to react and they seem...doubtful perhaps that anything is really wrong. Like it's an overreaction, despite you being in a lot of pain. Don't know if I'm making sense... I can big time relate to this. NO one in my family wants to hear about it anymore. I have zero support. This may sound over-simplistic, but when was the last time you slept somewhere other than you own bed? Plenty of times over the summer. Whoa, Mea, I didn't know you had to deal with that. I'm so sorry, hon. Chronic pain has got to be the worst. You know, I think perhaps it does have something to do with emotional things because even though you have managed to stop panic attacks, your body could still be experiencing a type of 'hangover' effect from that. Panic attacks alone are a huge deal and I do believe that our emotions affect our bodies. A lot of times back issues has to do with feeling like the world is on your shoulders, so to speak. I don't know what to suggest except extreme things such as reading some things by Dr. Joe Dispenza - he has done numerous studies on the brain, but he also healed his back which had been broken. Not sure if you'd get something out of that or not. Or, I like to turn to the metaphysical world when all other answers fail. Louise Hay has written numerous things on the connection between the body and our emotions. Hope this helps. I do believe that there is somewhat an emotional part to this. I know I still have anxeity, and the anxeity only makes the pain worse. I'm working on that. But, it' just so hard living this way. I'm sick of beign sent away with a pain patch to slap on and told to shaddup! BTW. Thank you all for your loving words, advice and support. Mea:) 1
carhill Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Hmm, I'll tell you what I did, when I was in chronic 'pain' of a type similar to yours. I started a journal of it and experimented with a couple benzodiazepines I had available from caring for my mom. Journaled the results. I found, in my case, the pain and physical manifestations (arrhythmia, chest tightness, sternum pain, etc) to go away at 30mg Xanax BID. Any less? Nothing. I monitored vitals and blood glucose (I had to do this for my mom anyway, so did myself at the same time) and found my blood sugars stabilized and my blood pressure and heart rate was more 'normal'. For me, pure and simple, it was my body reacting to stress and emotion. My brain was toxifying me. Perhaps that is not your issue, but a methodical differentiation, either by yourself or with a medical professional, should isolate the issues. BTW, it was during this time, when I realized my stbx's lack of care regarding what I was going through, that my love for her began to die. I don't know if you have a partner or not (sorry, don't keep up on all of that), but, if you do, I hope he or she is loving and supportive. It certainly would've meant the world to me. Best wishes
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 Hmm, I'll tell you what I did, when I was in chronic 'pain' of a type similar to yours. I started a journal of it and experimented with a couple benzodiazepines I had available from caring for my mom. Journaled the results. I found, in my case, the pain and physical manifestations (arrhythmia, chest tightness, sternum pain, etc) to go away at 30mg Xanax BID. Any less? Nothing. I monitored vitals and blood glucose (I had to do this for my mom anyway, so did myself at the same time) and found my blood sugars stabilized and my blood pressure and heart rate was more 'normal'. For me, pure and simple, it was my body reacting to stress and emotion. My brain was toxifying me. Perhaps that is not your issue, but a methodical differentiation, either by yourself or with a medical professional, should isolate the issues. BTW, it was during this time, when I realized my stbx's lack of care regarding what I was going through, that my love for her began to die. I don't know if you have a partner or not (sorry, don't keep up on all of that), but, if you do, I hope he or she is loving and supportive. It certainly would've meant the world to me. Best wishes Carhill, All you said here makes so much sense. I've been soooo stubborn with giving into meds. Infact, I don't even listen much and wear the pain patch. I use ice instead. Speaking of xanax, that's what I take daily now. It's a low dose of .05 mg three times per day as needed. That drug helps me stay away from the ER, lol as it takes away the flight or fight response. My goal is to soon be off the stuff.. with the help of my doc, and to take it only if I'm in the mist of an awful attack. And yes, situational stress can make things worse. The fact that it has rained here now for the past week does not help. I do have a male figure in my life to talk to. He is very kind and caring, and helpful. Thanks again. Mea:)
marlena Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Mea, So sorry to hear this, Mea. And you too, CE. I am in the same boat as you guys. It is so disheartening, I know, and it's effect on the quality of one's life is devastating. I also know about the frustation of going from doctor to doctor and not getting a clear diagnosis. I am beginning to HATE doctors and I mean that with all my heart. Since January of this year, I have been having debilitatibng migraines and vertigo and it's driving my crazy. I think it has to do with my neck. I am going to an orthopedic this week. Lately, I have had to restrict my social life and that is causing me depression as well which I try to fight off with teeth and nails and without meds. I do not believe in anti-depressants or such. Mea, if you are peri-menopausal (aren;t you too young to be?), brace yourself for the tempest ahead. The transition can be tough on some women. I hope it's not for you. It must so hard to have to cope with this and three kids. I admire you for this as I am sure you are a great mother. CE, you are so young, my dear, to have this. I would like to say more but I have to run. So here's a hug to each of you. 1
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 Oh NO Marlena I'm sorry to hear your going through this sort of thing to. I feel the same exact way about doctors right now. Here is my list. This is what I've been put through in a matter of 18 months. Cardio: 2 treadmill test, I nuc stress test, 2 echo's, 4 heart monitors, a 24 hour pee test, lol, an ultrasound of both legs, and complete cardio blood work. Lung: Testing for COPD, Chest CT using dye. Head: 2 MRI's, one MRA and head CT. Belly: CT of abdomen, Upper GI series, Abdominal Ultrasound, and blood work for every odd diesease known to man. Back and shoulders: Xrays. Hand: Nerve testing. And all this for what?? It makes me sooooo angry. Do you know how much radiation I have had? Now I'm scared to death of the long term affects of all that. If my first primary care doc had treated me in a proper fashion I probably could have avoided all this. I also had a spell of Vertigo to, so I know how scarey that is. Anway, thanks for your kind words. and a ( hug) right back to you. I hope you find your answers. Mea:)
scatterd Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) Yes I understand I have chronic pain also, in my lower back and neck.I am havig my nerves burt once a year and meds.I cant do the things I use to like moto-cross and lifting.I get depressed often but I get by somedays are better then others.I make the best of the days that r better. Have you had a MRI on back, neck or seen a spine specialist If not I would see one.In the begining the doctor said I was fine but my pain increased come to find out I had alot going on.We know our own bodies and know how we should feel dont give up find someone who can give you answers.I was sent to pt and doing same thing as you r.good luck! you just havent found the right doctor Edited October 3, 2009 by scatterd 1
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 Yes I understand I have chronic pain also, in my lower back and neck.I am havig my nerves burt once a year and meds.I cant do the things I use to like moto-cross and lifting.I get depressed often but I get by somedays are better then others.I make the best of the days that r better. Have you had a MRI or seen a spine specialist If not I would see one.In the begining the doctor said I was fine but my pain increased come to find out I had alot going on.We know our own bodies and know how we should feel dont give up find someone who can give you answers.I was sent to pt and doing same thing as you r.good luck! you just havent found the right doctor Sorry to hear of your pain, I know how much it hurts and I know that some days can be better than others. I have not had an MRI of my thoratic spine. One doc in the ER told me I should do that when I ended up there with severe upperback pain. But, my primary doc says NO. The back xray did not show much. But from what I understand, an xray does not show soft tissue. I would not mind doing the MRI since it's safe and has NO radiation exposure. But, Doc says NO.:mad: He now looks at me like I'm a lou-lou and I hate that.:( And your right, I have not found the right doc. My cardio says go to a person who deals with reumeotology (sp), primary care says try PT, Therapist says it's real pain but caused from anxeity and OB says much of it can be due to peri-meno.:lmao: So.. you see why I'm upset and confused?? Oh UGH..!! Mea:o
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 Just one more piece of info here that I think is importnat to share in this thread. And mods, I am sorry if it's off the orignal topic but I feel it pertains to what's going on with me. When I left my cardio docs office the other day, he did not think the pain was heart related but he could set me up for a cath or even better a much more non invasive test using a CT to look at my artieries. This would give full piece of mind that it's not my heart, because when I get the pain.. my head still goes there. But, due to all the darn needless radiation I been exposed to, I don't want another test with radiation. This creates mental anguish for me.. and makes the pain worse. So, I'm caught in a catch 22 situation. Do I give myself the peace of mind and have that test? Or do I forget about it and keep worrying?? But then again if I have the test and all is fine, then I will have comfort in knowing it's 100% not my heart.. but will have been through another blast of radiation which will cause future worry. Now, you see why I'm so confused here??? Sorry to ramble so much but I have to get this out of me. Mea:)
sb129 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I know the amount of radiation in a CT is daunting, but we experience background radiation daily from all kinds of other stuff anyway, so if the CT could possibly give you answers, I personally would go ahead with it.
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 I know the amount of radiation in a CT is daunting, but we experience background radiation daily from all kinds of other stuff anyway, so if the CT could possibly give you answers, I personally would go ahead with it. Hi SB. Yes it would give me piece of mind to know 100% right now that this pain is NOT from my heart. Becuase if it is my muscles than that won't kill me. Since this pain is daily and with me thinking " Ok.. now what if it's my heart?" I'm making myself very anxious. So yes, It would offer much piece of mind and I bet I would be able to deal with the pain in a more rational way. But, I'd like a little more direction in whichway to go here do to the radiation exposure and I don't know which doc to speak with who will give me an honest answer? Did that make sense? BTW.. good luck with that new little one on the way. I'm so excited for you. Mea:)
sb129 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Thanks- I am excited too (but a little over being pregnant, its pretty uncomfortable and frustrating at this late stage, as you know! ) This is quite a good website- note that its talking about CT "screening" not being recommended- that is CTs in healthy people who just want to know if there are any early cancers etc. It has radiation doses too- CTs are the highest form of radiation medical imaging. It depends on how MUCH peace of mind this is going to give you. If you think it will give you enough to be able to move forward, then I think its worth it. If it won't, then I would think twice about having the extra CT. I know what you mean about doctors though- my mum had a lump on her tongue a while back (it was nothing) and as soon as the surgeon found out she had good insurance, he recommended an MRI, which I think (in my professional opinion) was overkill.... He then recommended exploratory surgery when the MRI came back showing nothing- she declined in the end and the little lump has gone away now. hard to know whether they are recommending tests truly for your benefit or theirs IYKWIM. I don't feel like I have been very reassuring?
carhill Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 As a pretext, I haven't visited or felt the need to visit a medical doctor since 2005 and have been healthy physically my entire life..... not one medical problem, ever. Since the D process started, there have been two times where I had this unimaginable pain, non-specific, in my chest and upper abdominal area. So bad I couldn't sit, lay down or get comfortable in any resting position. They both have happened at night. The only way to get through it was to pace for a couple of hours, and, after about three hours, I could get comfortable enough to go to sleep, usually around 2-3a.m.. I even tried exercising with my heart monitor on to see if it was angina or a cardiac issue. Nothing. All vitals normal. No observable GI issues. The issue resolved as quickly as it appeared; totally random, and was consistent. At times, I thought I was dying. Be careful with the mind. It is the impetus to many perceptions of life and self which may not be (in reality) what we believe them to be. Maybe not as extreme as the people which my mom believed to live in her vents (paraphrenic psychosis), but, clearly, the mind is an organ of consciousness, of self, of perception and, when it's messing up, whoa.... Mea, from the sound of a prior post, that would be something, if I were going round and round with it in that manner, that I'd want professional help for. Not the arterial issue, but rather how I processed the process. In the past, was counseling helpful to you?
2sunny Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 hi Mea... being sober is hard at times...we "feel" more than we used to because there is no "cover up." at times, some sober folks experience a multitude of illnesses while doing step work... are you currently in the throes of step work? possibly your 4th step? it is wise to move into and out of the 4th step as quickly as possible to minimize the time frame of physical illnesses caused by emotional processing. this is usually (and normally) when severe pain and ailments are present and often debilitating... during the fourth step. actually, when i am sponsoring a person - i usually know what illness they are experiencing without them telling me - i experience the same pain right along with them as they are going through it. it's very debilitating - empathy is a very strange experience.
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 As a pretext, I haven't visited or felt the need to visit a medical doctor since 2005 and have been healthy physically my entire life..... not one medical problem, ever. Since the D process started, there have been two times where I had this unimaginable pain, non-specific, in my chest and upper abdominal area. So bad I couldn't sit, lay down or get comfortable in any resting position. They both have happened at night. The only way to get through it was to pace for a couple of hours, and, after about three hours, I could get comfortable enough to go to sleep, usually around 2-3a.m.. I even tried exercising with my heart monitor on to see if it was angina or a cardiac issue. Nothing. All vitals normal. No observable GI issues. The issue resolved as quickly as it appeared; totally random, and was consistent. At times, I thought I was dying. Be careful with the mind. It is the impetus to many perceptions of life and self which may not be (in reality) what we believe them to be. Maybe not as extreme as the people which my mom believed to live in her vents (paraphrenic psychosis), but, clearly, the mind is an organ of consciousness, of self, of perception and, when it's messing up, whoa.... Mea, from the sound of a prior post, that would be something, if I were going round and round with it in that manner, that I'd want professional help for. Not the arterial issue, but rather how I processed the process. In the past, was counseling helpful to you? Again carhill thanks for your support. I'm so glad your pain free now. I am in therapy. It just took me like forever to get to see the right person. Since I have been with her, I have not had 1 panic attack and I've stayed out of the ER, they probably miss me there. Anway, I'm working on how to process the process. Just wish the process of fixing the process would speed up some. hi Mea... being sober is hard at times...we "feel" more than we used to because there is no "cover up." at times, some sober folks experience a multitude of illnesses while doing step work... are you currently in the throes of step work? possibly your 4th step? it is wise to move into and out of the 4th step as quickly as possible to minimize the time frame of physical illnesses caused by emotional processing. this is usually (and normally) when severe pain and ailments are present and often debilitating... during the fourth step. actually, when i am sponsoring a person - i usually know what illness they are experiencing without them telling me - i experience the same pain right along with them as they are going through it. it's very debilitating - empathy is a very strange experience. 2sunny, You just may be onto something here with what you wrote. But if I get into the sober aspect of this I'll fly way off the topic and this thread will vanish as quick as I could suck down a bottle of wine. You have a PM on the way. Thank you. Mea:)
2sunny Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 that wouldn't actually be off topic... the pain that i felt while going through my 4th step took me down! i could hardly stand up for 1-1/2 months... was tested for everything. all centered in my groin area - so - ultrasound kidney checks bladder issues - ovaries... i could go on and on. my sponsor said - get done with the step work - it will disappear. the day after my 5th step - poof! like magic! it was amazing! the way we carry our pain and past around does take a physical toll on us in a huge way. the mind is very powerful - and yes, it definitely does control how the body reacts to what the mind is thinking.
carhill Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Well, I'm still going through the D, so, in a sense, I face some of the same 'fears' that you're posting about. Why did it happen and will it happen again? What if it's serious and by not getting medical help it becomes terminal? See where this is going? It's the mind BTW, if you think sobriety or the reverse is relevant to your pain situation, it's definitely on-topic. For me, drinking makes things worse; antithetically, I 'feel' more and tend to do those 'what if' mental gymnastics more when I drink. That's why I didn't drink for most of my younger life, though I didn't know exactly why at the time.
2sunny Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 processing all of it to move past it and to a different/better way of living is very painful - in many avenues... but TOTALLY worth it all! freedom!!!! freedom to a new way of living in happy way. a new brand of happiness.
sb129 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Mea I hope things get better- Carhill and 2sunny made some great points. I remember getting chronic headaches, TMJ pain and bad migraines when I was in my last destructive R. Bye bye BF, bye bye health probs!
Author Meaplus3 Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 Well, I'm still going through the D, so, in a sense, I face some of the same 'fears' that you're posting about. Why did it happen and will it happen again? What if it's serious and by not getting medical help it becomes terminal? See where this is going? It's the mind Yes, yes this sounds like me! The mind can really do that? I mean to some degree I believe it, but pain that does not go away and has no cause????:confused: BTW, if you think sobriety or the reverse is relevant to your pain situation, it's definitely on-topic. For me, drinking makes things worse; antithetically, I 'feel' more and tend to do those 'what if' mental gymnastics more when I drink. That's why I didn't drink for most of my younger life, though I didn't know exactly why at the time. Ok. In that case I'm rolling with it. And it if I get spanked it's your fault.:laugh: that wouldn't actually be off topic... the pain that i felt while going through my 4th step took me down! i could hardly stand up for 1-1/2 months... was tested for everything. all centered in my groin area - so - ultrasound kidney checks bladder issues - ovaries... i could go on and on. my sponsor said - get done with the step work - it will disappear. the day after my 5th step - poof! like magic! it was amazing! the way we carry our pain and past around does take a physical toll on us in a huge way. the mind is very powerful - and yes, it definitely does control how the body reacts to what the mind is thinking. Yes, but I have been sober now for 16 months. And the day after I got sober I had my first panic attack. It was like my body told my mind to STOP drinking. so I did. Now, I'm very happy that I did and I don't miss that posion on bit. But sunny, I've had all these odd symptoms now since that day.. 16 months of it and it's not goning away???? Well the panic attacks did, but not the pain and mild anxeity.Do you think it' could be because I did this on my own with NO support from AA or really any where else? My therapist I don't think is trained in addiction? Mea:)
carhill Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Yes, yes this sounds like me! The mind can really do that? I mean to some degree I believe it, but pain that does not go away and has no cause????:confused: Mea, think about this. Where does pain come from? I don't mean the action but rather the perception.... BTW, have you ever tried Neurontin? It has some interesting off-label uses. I tried it in my mom's case with inconsistent results. Obviously, doctor stuff
2sunny Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 for me - it is a "true" way for me to find my own way of being happy, healthy and free! try it, what do you have to loose? you will find many, many ideas in a meeting - ways to be happy sober - and ways that look unhappy as sober. take the good ideas and apply them to your life the way you see fit. when you are ready - and IF you want to - get a sponsor, work the steps and see how it looks for you. it's very freeing! i also recommend meditation. this calms the mind and gives clarity... a sense of peace to my daily routine.
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