What is "support" in the OM/OW Forum?

[Impudent Oyster]

Same goes for bitter, angry BS.. they should stay out of the OW forum if they can't take the 'heat'..

 

 

LOL, I can take the "heat", no problem.

 

Now, should I run and tattle to a mod because you're calling me names?

 

BTW, I was speaking metaphorically, obviously inference isn't your stronge suit.

[LakesideDream]

People come to the OM/OW forum because there is something in their relationship that they either don't understand, or that's causing them pain. Others with similar experiances or are here because they choose to offer their advice. That advise if wisely offered can be "support".

 

In my opinion reciting a continuing condemnation for all extramarital affairs is not advice. It's editorializing, in some cases it's propoganda. The goal on the OW/OM forum is to help someone work through the problem they bring to the community. Or is it?

 

Lately, the trend has been to condem the actions of the OW/OM without regard to the problems presented. The advice has become advocacy for N/C, no contact first. A cecession of all contact and parcipitation with the affair partner. This often does not address the OP's situation and is often off topic in my opinion. Often in addition to the N/C there is the advice from the board for full disclosure, informing BS's grandparents, parents, children, the workplace, and presumably the neighbors of the OM/OW's "transgressions" thus making the affair public knowledge bringing it into "the light of day" to sterilize it without regard to the damage done to innocent parties.

 

If this trend continues I reccomend changing the name of the forum to the N/C - No mercy forum. A forum where others can come to be insulted and excoriated for their behaviors. Where emotional cleansing is offered by those whole feel superior to OM/OW because they were previously betrayed.

[donnamaybe]

Obviously, no contact would accomplish one of two things:

 

Either the MM/MW would realize they truly love the AP and leave the marriage to pursue a "real" relationship with the AP, or;

 

The AP would realize they didn't really have anything but an ongoing affair for the MP's pleasure only.

 

At least this way the AP could end their struggle, one way or the other.

[Lizzie60]

People come to the OM/OW forum because there is something in their relationship that they either don't understand, or that's causing them pain. Others with similar experiances or are here because they choose to offer their advice. That advise if wisely offered can be "support".

 

In my opinion reciting a continuing condemnation for all extramarital affairs is not advice. It's editorializing, in some cases it's propoganda. The goal on the OW/OM forum is to help someone work through the problem they bring to the community. Or is it?

 

Lately, the trend has been to condem the actions of the OW/OM without regard to the problems presented. The advice has become advocacy for N/C, no contact first. A cecession of all contact and parcipitation with the affair partner. This often does not address the OP's situation and is often off topic in my opinion. Often in addition to the N/C there is the advice from the board for full disclosure, informing BS's grandparents, parents, children, the workplace, and presumably the neighbors of the OM/OW's "transgressions" thus making the affair public knowledge bringing it into "the light of day" to sterilize it without regard to the damage done to innocent parties.

 

If this trend continues I reccomend changing the name of the forum to the N/C - No mercy forum. A forum where others can come to be insulted and excoriated for their behaviors. Where emotional cleansing is offered by those whole feel superior to OM/OW because they were previously betrayed.

 

 

Ooohhhh LSD.. I love you sooooo much...

You have way with words..

 

I totally agree..

[LakesideDream]

Obviously, no contact would accomplish one of two things:

 

Either the MM/MW would realize they truly love the AP and leave the marriage to pursue a "real" relationship with the AP, or;

 

The AP would realize they didn't really have anything but an ongoing affair for the MP's pleasure only.

 

At least this way the AP could end their struggle, one way or the other.

 

 

Isn't the goal "support"? N/C is gaurenteed to cause angst and pain. If the goal is to "get out" of the affair, it may be an appropriate tactic. If an OP's goal is to lessen the pain they are feeling it may be the worst advice, depending on the source of the pain.

 

N/C is not a cure all in extramarital affairs. It's just one tool from the box. It doesen't fit all situations.

[donnamaybe]

Isn't the goal "support"? N/C is gaurenteed to cause angst and pain. If the goal is to "get out" of the affair, it may be an appropriate tactic. If an OP's goal is to lessen the pain they are feeling it may be the worst advice, depending on the source of the pain.

 

N/C is not a cure all in extramarital affairs. It's just one tool from the box. It doesen't fit all situations.

 

Obviously if someone is posting about their affair, other than to revel in it (which I don't think I've ever seen here), they are already in "angst and pain." If they want to end said "angst and pain" there are things they need to do in order to NOT keep the status quo. If they are happy being the side piece, then more power to 'em, but why post on LS?

[silktricks]

 

I AM angry. Angry that people are selfish and self destructive.

 

Being supportive of an affair to me seems to be enabling it, and that should not be anyone's goal.

 

I think OW who want to end affairs or who want to realize and learn from their mistakes should be supported, but those who want to continue, or hide better, or who cause agony to innocent families...how can anyone benefit from supporting that?

 

 

Because this forum IS FOR SUPPORT for OW/OM. That doesn't mean ipso facto that it's for support of an affair, but support for an OW/OM could mean supporting a person who has zero intention of ceasing the affair...

 

When I was still in pain from the affair my H had, there were a number of OW who were pretty nasty in their opinions that our marriage had zero chance, I should leave, etc. etc.... I didn't view that as support (and still do not). However, from their point of view, they were offering support to me - support that in their opinion was valid. However, it wasn't valid for me, it was offensive. The point of support is that it if it is truly support, it needs to come from the position of what the person being supported needs - not necessarily from the perspective of the person offering support... Otherwise it isn't supportive, it's only opinionated.

[Tony]

Therefore, if a member suggests that an OM/OW/WS get out of an affair or don't start it, they would get an infraction for not being supportive?

 

I think that 100 percent of the people who come to this forum ALREADY KNOW they should get out of the affair...THEY ALREADY KNOW they shouldn't start it. That's a given. People aren't stupid. But people do things that are against their better judgment A LOT.

 

There are also very kind ways of telling people they need to split...but so many people here are nasty about it...and that WILL get an infraction. It's all about how you express yourself. There's a big difference between being supportive and being outright mean or giving a nasty lecture.

[Tony]

HOW one does something is as relevant as WHAT one does.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tony]

I could be wrong Trial and am looking forward to Tony's reply but I THINK he means don't be calling people whores and saying they are stupid....trash....things I have seen in here...

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tony]

Therefore, if a member suggests that an OM/OW/WS get out of an affair or don't start it, they would get an infraction for not being supportive?

 

I have no idea where you got that but you are WRONG! It's how you do it. If you make the person feel like a low class whore, you are NOT being supportive. If you are kind in the way you give your advice, then that would be correct. You can say ANYTHING IN THE WORLD YOU WANT IN THESE FORUMS as long as it comes across as being kind, supportive and in the best interests of the person needing advice. I thought this was common sense...but I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

Being supportive does not mean you endorse the behavior. You can be very supportive of your children and still be very angry that they stole a Tootsie Roll from the convenience store!

[silktricks]

If a friend were to come to me asking for advice I would give thoughtful consideration to their well being and to the lives they touch through their choices. I give the same advice when I post here. However, when I give this advice in person it is taken much differently than in this forum... and believe it has a lot to do with the fact that they cannot see the person behind the words or the delivery.

 

I REALLY think that this is true. I've gotten a few infractions myself... and know that if my face could have been seen and tone of voice heard that the words would have been taken differently. So much of communication is changed (sometimes lost, sometimes what is not meant is added) simply due to the fact that all communication here is only words on a screen.

[Tony]

Suggesting is one thing; haranguing someone and calling them a whore (as has happened here many times to OW portrayed as unrepentant) is quite another.

 

HOW one does something is as relevant as WHAT one does.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stampdaddy]

the thing that helped me the most, is when I broke out my "Giant Sifter" so to speak, and would just take in EVERYBODY'S "support" and toss it in there... I would take the time to sift, and sift and sift and look at what was left, "what sorked for ME" and that was the "support" that helped me.

 

Sure, it could change from time to time, but in my gut, and as I figure in everybody's gut, I KNEW what I should do, and what was really good for me, and what was really hurting me.

 

Yes, there are a few here that just come out with it and tell you to pack up and leave if you are the BS, or those that will tell you that you will NEVER get the MW/MM, and those that will tell you that they did wind up with their MW/MM and then those that will tell you that if you do wind up with your MW/MM that you are doomed and those that will tell you that if you do wind up with your MW/MM that you will succeed and then those that will....... well, you get it....

[Tony]

Also calling people Cheaters and Liars does not solve anything which has happened many times. It's not supportive obviously it is abuse. One does not need support to continue an affair, just support for feeling lost and in pain which although maybe self inflicted, is still pain nonetheless. People who come on this forum need to have experience of life in order to give an opinion.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tony]

This is excellent. I completely agree. Supporting the OP, means really putting yourself in their shoes. Trying to see out their eyes. Trying to get a sense of what they are feeling.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Where have you guys been????????????????????????

[Tony]

In other words.. I should add.. if someone is bitter because she/he has been betrayed.. the OW forum is not necessarily good for him/her. They should stay away if it's painful for them to read.. it's that simple.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

People who are angry because of experiences and insist on taking that anger out on others when giving advice should refrain from giving it.

[Tony]

This is such a timely thread.

 

A post of mine was flagged for violation because it was not "in a supportive TONE", (which is very subjective). I did NOT harangue anyone or call them names.

 

Precisely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Members will always be given infractions for coming down on another member who has come here to receive support and advice. The tone of a post can often mean the difference between whether or not a person even returns to this site. In extremely rare cases, it can mean whether or not the person jumps off the highest bridge in their town. If you're not sure how to write supportively, stay out of this category. There are many other people in these forums who are desperate for advice.

[Leia]

Ok, so no calling anyone : cheater, whore etc but calling someone 'bitter' is ok?

 

Seeing that it's offensive for calling someone 'cheater' [since none of them like it], isn't it also offensive to say a BS is 'bitter' [seeing that some BS don't like and deserve it?

[Impudent Oyster]

I have no idea where you got that but you are WRONG! It's how you do it. If you make the person feel like a low class whore, you are NOT being supportive..

 

So you want people to make the person feel good about sleeping with someone else's spouse? About aiding and abetting a liar and participating in the deception of an innocent party?

 

How exactly might you do that?

[tinktronik]

... which is valid IF the A is an addiction for the OP. While there have been a couple of cases where the OP has declared this to be the case, more often than not this is not relevant. So, treating something that is not an addiction as if it were is neither helpful (to the OP) nor effective (to the person providing "support"). Plus, misdiagnosing an A that doesn't feature addiction on the part of the OP is likely to be perceived - by the OP, as well as others in similar situations - as passing a moral judgment, and thus as being judgmental rather than supportive.

 

In positing two extremes (supporting NC vs supporting the A), the OP seems to be suggesting that those are the only two posibilities, and that one is therefore either on the side of "good" (ie, stop the A, save the AP) or on the side of "evil" (encourage the A, condemn the AP to perdition). IRL things are far more nuanced and complex, and most people are are mature enough to spot that there are a great many options available besides that.

 

Support, IMO, involves firstly finding out where the OP is at, and what they're seeking and needing RIGHT NOW. Yes, they may be in a toxic R, and the best thing for them may well be to walk away from it, but if they're not yet in a position to consider that - or even hear it - then screaming it at them is not going to help - and it won't be supportive, it will be harassing. Support hears them, recognises where they are, and offers them a shoulder as they prepare to take the next step - wherever that might lead them, on their own path to the resolution of their situation.

 

Support also recognises that, just as people differ, so their ideal outcomes may also differ. What may be the perfect situation for one (eg, NC) may not be for another, who may be happy to remain the OW (once some niggly R issues are resolved) or yet another, who may land up happily with their AP. Support recognises that those of us reading don't have the full information, and that what we want for the OP (which is often what we imagine we'd want for ourselves, were we in the OP's position) is not necessarily what will ultimately be the best for THEM - that we need to offer, suggest, propose - but be prepared that perhaps we have it wrong.

 

Support also celebrates progress and resolution for the OP - whether or not it is the "ideal" situation we'd have wanted for them / us. Support wants to see the OP happy, well and living authentically according to THEIR values, rather than ours.

 

I think the bolded statement blurs the lines of what support may be to you personally vs. what it can be from different perspectives. You can give momentary support, the immediate relief or long-term relief. The two different types of support may be completely different scenarios and polar opposites from each other.

 

In the short-term it may be appear that the OP desires her/his MM/MW to return their calls so you tell hem how to get a call returned. The long-term may be that the OP has some damage to self-esteem and is in an affair where their needs are not me, thus you could suggest ha hey extricate themselves from the A.

 

I think we have to be careful in seeing advice that some A partners may respond to as if it is attacking, while it certainly is supportive long-term, just because someone responded to it negatively.

[Impudent Oyster]

Ok, so no calling anyone : cheater, whore etc but calling someone 'bitter' is ok?

 

.

 

It would appear to be the case....precisely.

[Lizzie60]

Ok, so no calling anyone : cheater, whore etc but calling someone 'bitter' is ok?

 

Seeing that it's offensive for calling someone 'cheater' [since none of them like it], isn't it also offensive to say a BS is 'bitter' [seeing that some BS don't like and deserve it?

 

'bitter' is not name calling as in 'whore' 'slut'... etc..

 

being bitter is an adjective... IMO.. could be a language thing but for me.. being bitter only means being 'sour' about something..

[Impudent Oyster]

So you want people to make the person feel good about sleeping with someone else's spouse? About aiding and abetting a liar and participating in the deception of an innocent party?

 

How exactly might you do that?

 

 

I am quoting my own post because I just know someone will get up in arms because I used the word "liar". But really, that is PRECISELY what a WS is.

 

Why sugarcoat it? Can anyone here deny it?

[Tony]

And what if, when in those shoes, the best advice that you can offer is for them to get OUT of an affair?

 

You can support a person but you cannot, in good conscience or common sense, ever support an affair.

 

NOBODY, BUT NOBODY IN THESE ENTIRE FORUMS is asking you to be supportive of an affair.

 

If you need to tell someone to get out of an affair, say something like this: "Your situation is going nowhere. Your man is not responding the way you want him to. Statistically, he will not leave his wife. For your own emotional welfare, go through some pain now...cut your losses short...and move on."

 

If you want to get an infraction, you can tell them the same thing like this:

"You slut. If you think this guy is going to leave his wife for a whorish homebreaker, you're some kind of crazy. Get your lazy butt away from this guy before his wife claws your eyes out." --And I've seen this sort of thing in the forums...more than once! As a matter of fact, a statement like this will probably get you banned...or put in moderated status for a very long time.