Story so far

[Teslacoil]

I have no idea why everyone on here seems to be cheering you on for being "honest" about how incredibly selfish and uncaring your are.

 

Maybe people are starting to realize that by not condemning it is more likely that the original poster will actually listen and contemplate what you are saying.

 

Totally correct, and I agree with you.

 

This OP though doesn't seem to be looking for any amount of self-knowledge, advice, help, or anything other than a pat on the back from people who agree with her. If I had any advice or insight to give her that didn't agree with what she already believed, she would ignore me. At least that's the impression I've gotten from this thread so far.

[Dexter Morgan]

Yes it's a mess, yes there's a lot of lying done. It won't be forever, I like to believe that I am working on sorting out what I ought to do and then hope to take that path no matter how uneasy it would be.

 

no matter what it is you think you have to sort out, there is one obvious thing you should do.....break up with your partner. quit betraying him, and set him free from you.

[Dexter Morgan]

My concern is my partner too. He claims he is happy. If he is unhappy I do not know of it. Would I be ok if he got someone on the side? No, I am selfish and controlling and my ego is too fragile for that. But I would get it. And then probably leave.

 

well if you would leave him if he were to do the same thing that you are doing to him, then why don't you leave him out of principle, if not for doing right by him?

[GreenEyedLady]

In very short I am having both an EA and a PA and yes, I do have a partner at home who is thankfully -mainly for his sake- oblivious to this.

 

The PA is with a MM, it's easy, it's fun, it's honest, it's amazing sex and it's convenient -we work and travel together-. He knows about the EA MM and is even relived he exists and knows my partner, respects and likes him and hopes I end up staying with him. My level of guilt, worry, attachment or generally emotional investment in this A is zero. So is his.

 

The EA is with a MM, it's messy, it's complicated, it's exclusively online, it's existed for the better part of 5 years transcending my last marriage and relationships. He knows about my partner obviously but not the PA MM. My level of emotional investment in this is a very high percentage. His M is new, it was a convenience agreement for the most part but I know his BW would be maybe more hurt than my BH if there would ever be a D-day.

 

My partner and I have been together a few years, the relationship is a good solid friendship, a greatly functional partnership in building our life together. The sex is nearly non-existent and it is not fixable, simply his drive being near zero. My current emotional investment in the relationship is rather high, higher than it has been before the PA ironically. If I were to bet, I would see our R as more probable than the EA ever turning into anything other but I am too old, too lacking clarity and too jaded to pretend I know that for sure. I know I am deceiving him, of course, but I would never admit this to him and hurt him -save your breath please people- as well as hurt the chances we'll stay together, yes, although according to something he repeated time and again he would not want to know if I had an affair so that he doesn't have to contemplate living without me and am perfectly ok "living with the burdain" and what not.

 

I think what you've written here as a "committed" partner with 2 OM should really be looked at by the OP's.

 

This is actually the way some of the MM/MW that OP's are in relationships, think.

 

I think my surprise is that most people who post here are in love with their AP and from all the posts I've read of yours so far, the only person you really seem to love is yourself.

 

And I don't care how you live your life, it's your life not mine, but I think the OP's should pay careful attention.

 

GEL

[jasminetea]

Well, I was hoping that OW_WS would have answered the points raised so far before I asked another question, but hey.

 

OW_WS, you have different men all fulfilling different needs of yours and it seems that that's the case because you're unable to fulfil any of them yourself. I wouldn't dispute that no one person can be all things for anyone else and we need many people in our lives to fulfil us. But to have such a lack of selfreliance as you're demonstrating must be very unhealthy. Why did you never learn to use your own resources? Why do you need so much distraction?

[OW_WS]

Again thank you for the responses everyone. As J-J observes, there are some really good points of view here.

 

Have you and your partner even talked about things? Have you tried to spice it up in the bedroom, bring more passion in?

 

I'll answer this point here, no need to do so in the "he rejects you" absurdity bellow -Cheers J-J for explaining the obvious.

 

I have tried many a methods. His sex drive is what it is. Ways to modify that are few and far between and ways in which he could give me more sex simply because I require more strike as really unpleasant and unelegant. We have discussed it and turned it on all sides trying to identify a solution. At the time I was complaining about lack of frequency and lack of imagination and adventure in the bedroom. The two latter aspects we worked on. We read the tips, we pulled out the candlelit tricks and stops. And it got better. The drive did not. It probably never will, if we are to marry it will always be near sex-less.

 

Another point brought about in the absurd post where he rejects me (my guess is that was a conscient or not attempt at hurting me but a rather lame one at that) was how he doesn't have an emotional ligature with me either. Incorrect. We do have an emotional bond, a strong functional one, one that is more fleshy from his side yes, but is there. I never said there was a real issue with that.

 

Along the way you're getting used to having two men meet all your needs, if one disappears, it's going to be hard.

 

Very very true and in true selfish vein, one of the few arguments capable of giving me pause these days.

 

So what happens if you two meet and it feels right? An affair IRL happens? Or do you leave your partner and he leaves his wife?

 

This would have to be the plan if an IRL meeting would happen and the je ne sais quoi would hold.

 

If you didn't WANT to hurt him, you wouldnt be cheating on him, either emotionally or physically. Problem, is, your NEEDS trump HIS needs so you sacrifice HIS needs (monogamy) for your NEEDS (sex and emotional connection). You KNOW this has hurt him deeply (or will once he finds out)...yet you continue despite this.

 

First let's take your later -non-quoted here- question on why am I staying with him and your preposterous suggestion that it's money. How on earth have you arrived at that? I believe I mentioned I travel, I happen to have a satisfying, extremely financially rewarding -withing reason, there can always be better- career. If anything, should the R be terminated, my H would be the one hurting financially.

 

Speaking of hurt..... wow, just wow.... not only are your arguments circular but I have struggled to keep an open mind, presume you were riled up and wait and seek for the part where your "you hurt him anyhow" arguments make sense. In the absence of any present or future D-day none of this hurts him. Not in any fashion and it won't start doing so just because you tell me it does.

 

So I guess what I'd ask is - if you could have EVERYTHING from one person (any of the 3 current, or someone entirely new), would you go for that option - or do you prefer having different facets supplied by different partners?

 

This was an amazing question and it me contemplate my answer very seriously. Truth is I do not know. I would tend to believe that I would absolutely love to have all 3-in-1 but in practice I never have so I don't know.

 

I wish you the best and hope that the end results bring you lots of satisfaction and happiness!

 

"To each his own" as the saying goes.

 

LOL cheers. You surely are more tolerant than I am

 

The other thing I wonder is how you keep it all going. Aren't you afraid of being found out?

 

Not for the most part, no. I am sometimes having doubts about the manner of communication I employ but I don't think it is a big risk at all.

 

Would he feel the same if he knew that you were cheating on your current R with someone else as well? Would he still be willing to 'share' you with your PA MM and your 'committed relationship' as well?

 

Very good questions. What's worse is that if the answer to it would be "yeah he'd be cool with your A" then I'd be unpleasantly surprised by his lack of jealousy!

 

It is not improbable that I will tell him soon.

 

Again, you're not really asking any QUESTIONS on this thread. My personal theory is that you just want some validation and praise from other people who won't condemn you for having a PA, an EA with someone else, and a H on top of it. So I'll be one of the "bad guys" and condemn you for it. I'm sure you won't care about my opinion because you really aren't here for the criticism, or any ideas on how to improve your situation. You're just here for the positive reinforcement of your behavior.

 

Deal, done, feel better that you did your job and condemned? C'mon.... you can't possibly think that will save me just as you can't believe the validation thing. This has been going on for a long long while in the absence of a forum, validation is not a factor in the least. As for praise what sort would I want? Beyond that for multitasking -for the wrong purposes maybe- there's none to be had.

 

You mention my H's welfare. In fact some of you do. I have never understood why, while you think it is presumptions of me to believe he is reasonably happy in the R, it is alright for you to presume that being out of it or told or "set free" is the definition of wellness for him. I mean you must be able to realize you just don't know what's best for this guy and that monster as I may be, I am more likely to have a clue on the matter.

 

Last but not least you seem to be genuinely upset there are no "QUESTIONS" in my post. Why does that upset you? You volunteered advice anyhow it is not a matter of not being able to do so without a direct question, I can't imagine why the lack of questions pis*es you off.

 

And Jasminea, which needs other than sexual in a stretch of the imagination can I fulfill myself?

[jwi71]

First let's take your later -non-quoted here- question on why am I staying with him and your preposterous suggestion that it's money.

 

How is that preposterous? If its not physical and not emotional needs - since you are having those satisfied by others - then what? How would money be a preposterous motive?

 

How on earth have you arrived at that?

If your fiance isn't satisfying your physical or emotional needs needs it is entirely possible he provides substantial financial assets. Again, I fail to see how that is a perposterous conclusion...

 

I believe I mentioned I travel,

You stay with your fiance because of the travel? Huh? So, your fiance provides travel - which is also what your job and PA MM provides. I'm not sure, in light of what I know, that your fiance is providing you much of anything...he's not meeting your sexual, emotional, financial needs...but your need to travel? Is that really a good reason to be married?

 

I happen to have a satisfying, extremely financially rewarding -withing reason, there can always be better- career. If anything, should the R be terminated, my H would be the one hurting financially.

Why didn't you just simply say this to begin with instead of your mini-tirade? And you still haven't addressed why you stay with your fiance...you claim you mention travel but I fail to see it and yes, I looked...

 

 

Speaking of hurt..... wow, just wow.... not only are your arguments circular but I have struggled to keep an open mind, presume you were riled up and wait and seek for the part where your "you hurt him anyhow" arguments make sense.

No circular arguments here. You hurt him by having multiple affairs - YOU SAID THIS TO ME EARLIER. Not only that, which one would think is evidence enough, but you feel a need to lie to not only your fiance but your EA MM too. Why hide it if it wouldn't prove painful? If it isn't hurting him, then tell him. Tell them both. Why hide it? It wouldn't hurt him right? riiiiiggghhht

 

In the absence of any present or future D-day none of this hurts him. Not in any fashion and it won't start doing so just because you tell me it does

Wow, just wow. Didn't you reply, to me of all people, that telling him would hurt him and you'd lose him. You wanted harder questions yes? Your first reply in this thread no? Lets try and NOT contradict ourselves ok?

 

When this happens...my BS radar starts going off...contradicting yourself...good luck with that...

 

We obviously aren't going to establish any kind of rapport and simply don't care enough to bother any further.

[OW_WS]

1. You have a point on how I put the money thing. I should have been less defensive and answered more clearly earlier.

 

2. There are more needs than those three. Or rather the emotional component is far more complex than "love" and he is providing many of those aspects to me as I do to him.

 

3. In very short the equation is simple: This A (or either of them) would only hurt him if he found about about it and I am seeing to it that he doesn't.

[jasminetea]

And Jasminea, which needs other than sexual in a stretch of the imagination can I fulfill myself?

 

On the point about sexual needs - I feel that sex is a one of the most important parts of a relationship and when people have deeply incompatible sex drives, to the extent of one party needing to find someone outside the relationship to fulfil them, its exactly the same as any other aspect of their relationship being completely incompatible. I don't believe the primary relationship could or should survive. As you prove with your current lifestyle. Why would you want to marry a man who can't satisfy you in one of the most important aspects of a marriage? What's the point in being married? You may as well just be friends.

 

As far as other needs, because you are a unique individual I have no idea what you need that you get from you EAP that you can't get from your current SO or PAP.

 

To tell the truth I'm astonished that anyone of any maturity would have to string three men along in order to satisfy her, instead of dating around as most normal women do, until she found one that could fulfil her relationship needs.

[Teslacoil]

3. In very short the equation is simple: This A (or either of them) would only hurt him if he found about about it and I am seeing to it that he doesn't.

 

That's a pretty shallow and naive definition of what it means to "hurt" someone.

 

I propose that by staying in this relationship you're hurting him, and continuing to hurt him, even though presently he is blissfully ignorant. Again, ignorance of the truth is not happiness. He's living a lie, a lie that you continue to feed him everyday. How can you think that's not hurtful?

 

- Even you acknowledge that your relationship with your fiance might be doomed to end. Yet, you stay in this relationship for selfish reasons because you don't want to give it up yet. This hurts your fiance because he could be spending his time finding someone who is truly his soul-mate, i.e. not you. You're costing him time, emotional energy, and money. The longer you stay with him, the longer the emotional pain will last, and the less time he will have trying to find someone else who really loves him.

 

- You're hurting your fiance further because he deserves someone who will give him ALL of her emotional energy, and will genuinely care about his well-being. By cheating on him with TWO people, you are dividing your emotional energy, and thus depriving him of love, affection, and attention.

 

I can't believe you're considering marrying this person when you are clearly not sexually satisfied, and need to have not one, but TWO affairs to satisfy yourself. IF you end up marrying him, you'll be hurting him even more, since that marriage would be completely doomed to failure. Eventually he would figure out your affairs, or you would get completely fed up and leave him, or find someone else who satisfied all your selfish needs and leave him for that other person.

 

Then you'd have hurt him further by marrying him, when he really deserves to marry someone that he has a genuine chance to be happy with.

[bentnotbroken]

Honest or not, the OP has more issues than multiple partners. She is missing something within herself that allows her to use people the way she does.

[OW_WS]

That's a pretty shallow and naive definition of what it means to "hurt" someone.

 

Not at all. Nothing wrong with that definition.

 

I propose that by staying in this relationship you're hurting him, and continuing to hurt him, even though presently he is blissfully ignorant. Again, ignorance of the truth is not happiness. He's living a lie, a lie that you continue to feed him everyday. How can you think that's not hurtful?

 

I'm sorry the above is just preposterous, emotional and illogical and I can't take it seriously enough to respond as none of that makes sense. Nothing of what you have enumerated causes him hurt.

 

Even you acknowledge that your relationship with your fiance might be doomed to end. Yet, you stay in this relationship for selfish reasons because you don't want to give it up yet. This hurts your fiance because he could be spending his time finding someone who is truly his soul-mate, i.e. not you. You're costing him time, emotional energy, and money. The longer you stay with him, the longer the emotional pain will last, and the less time he will have trying to find someone else who really loves him.

 

This is only valid if this relationship does fail. That is just not a valid line of thought, in that sense no couple having a problem should ever work through it because maybe, just maybe they are wasting each other's time.

 

I bet you're up in arms about the comparison between a couple working through issues and my situation, right? If you take the "but then they are honest to each other" indignation out you'll see logically there is no reason for that comparison not to be valid. One of us is having the issues -according to some of you many , according to me organizational confusion and wondering if sex is really that crucia-. We are having issues and only one of us is in a sense working on them. If anything it's saving a lot of costly hurt in this scenario.

 

By cheating on him with TWO people, you are dividing your emotional energy, and thus depriving him of love, affection, and attention.

 

That is a point, and it would make sense and I would agree with you if it were true. It is not. Realistically, he gets far more attention, energy and focus than before the A. I am making it a conscious point to do so.

 

IF you end up marrying him, you'll be hurting him even more, since that marriage would be completely doomed to failure. Eventually he would figure out your affairs, or you would get completely fed up and leave him, or find someone else who satisfied all your selfish needs and leave him for that other person.

 

Then you'd have hurt him further by marrying him, when he really deserves to marry someone that he has a genuine chance to be happy with.

 

Point. I haven't yet done that though, have I? In fact I put it to you that this marriage will not be doomed to any failure if I decide to do so. It will be solid as a rock because by the time I would have went ahead with it I would have offered myself a cleaner plate emotionally and practically than most people have when they get married.

[Mr. Lucky]

You mention my H's welfare. In fact some of you do. I have never understood why, while you think it is presumptions of me to believe he is reasonably happy in the R, it is alright for you to presume that being out of it or told or "set free" is the definition of wellness for him. I mean you must be able to realize you just don't know what's best for this guy and that monster as I may be, I am more likely to have a clue on the matter.

Your proposition that you are proving your interest in your H's welfare by keeping him in the dark while you sleep around is beyond absurd. If you really loved him, you'd do one of two simple things -

 

- Focus all your attention on your relationship with him

 

or

 

- End the relationship with him so that you can both move on.

 

If you're such a champion of his rights and happiness, why not tell him the truth so he can also appreciate you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[4everloveu]

Sometimes people choose to lies b/c they think that will not hurt the H or W. But they don't know how much hurt it will be the longer they carry on the A.

[bentnotbroken]

If she really felt like what she was doing is benefiting him, she would tell just how much she loves him and with who. But since it is a load of pig snot, she will continue to sell herself this bill of goods. Anybody got a bridge to sell?

[awkward]

I think PA MM is irrelevant unless it leads to a d-day with BS or EA MM. You might be doing everything you can to make sure that your affairs aren't outed but BS's often will out the OP upon discovery. I hope your EA MM and PA MM are as careful as you are. I guess he isn't completely irrelevant as if he quit playing his role, you would need to find a replacement until you figure out what you want.

 

EA MM is another story. I think once you know if you have a physical connection with EA MM you'll probably make a decision. But that could lead to more problems like if you leave your BS and he doesn't or you drop him and he outs you to BS. There are tons of scenarios. Best case scenario here would be that you have a physical connection in addition to your emotional connection, leave your BS's, and then unite. But a lot of people say that these types of affairs are "fantasy". How will you know if you made the correct decision until you are actually dating the EA MM without secrecy? You could regret everything in a year, but I guess that goes for just about any relationship.

 

Your BS is the saddest part. You don't want to let him go until you know for sure that you won't want to go back. IMO though letting him go should be the easiest part in this triangle. You know he can't fulfill your needs which means marrying him would be a huge mistake.

 

Honestly, I think you would be better off starting fresh. Try to find one guy that can fulfill all your needs. I think that would make you happier. If you choose the EA MM, it could be messy for awhile.

 

A lot of MM/MW lie to all parties involved. Kind of like how you are with your BS and EA MM. They want to make sure they make the correct decision before committing either way. The honesty here took me by surprise for a second.

 

Are BS, EA MM, and PA MM all males?

[jasminetea]

Anybody got a bridge to sell?

 

Hmmm, I wondered about that

[Lyssa]

Are BS, EA MM, and PA MM all males?

 

I believe so. I don't think this is anything like the human sandwich thread.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think PA MM is irrelevant unless it leads to a d-day with BS or EA MM.

I guess it all depends on your pespective. I really wonder if the OP's husband would consider her PA "irrelevant" ???

 

Many seem to want to characterize the OP's manipulations of the people she professes to care about as "OK as long as no one finds out". Strikes me as an interesting standard to apply...

 

Mr. Lucky

[creamyfrench]

OW WS I am in a very similar position as you, only difference is my relationships know about each other and like each other. I can't say that having told has been a better thing to do. MM hasn't been honest with his wife even though he says they only stay together because divorcing is bad financially. So, all the sercretiveness on his behalf is difficult. I do believe that if he were truthful/open with her things would be better for everyone, including his wife.

 

I can tell you that some aspects of a relationship my husband isn't able to fulfill, MM does and they've seemed happy with the arrangement. I find husband and I have a much happier/better relationship.

 

I can tell you too though that there are still some emotional needs that neither have been able to comfort and it hurts that much more when two people trample on you.

 

The only conclusion I've been able to come to is whether an individual is in a relationship or not, with one partner or many, it's all complicated, messy, exciting, exhausting, and painful. By our very nature, we are at times happy and hurt by others.

 

That's it...no big revelation.

 

Except maybe when I tried to explain my situation on this very forum it was like the Salem Witch Hunt. I admire your bravery. Best wishes to you and yours. Keep trying for happiness and helping others find theirs.

[awkward]

I guess it all depends on your pespective. I really wonder if the OP's husband would consider her PA "irrelevant" ???

 

Many seem to want to characterize the OP's manipulations of the people she professes to care about as "OK as long as no one finds out". Strikes me as an interesting standard to apply...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes that is what I meant. From the OP's perspective, PA MM is irrelevant. It is definitely not the standard that I would apply to myself.

 

 

I believe so. I don't think this is anything like the human sandwich thread.

 

I think I missed that thread.

[OW_WS]

Creamyfrench - thank you and the same to you. We all try for essentially the same things, it's the way we go about it that makes the difference and gets people up in arms.

 

Awkward - yes all of them are males, I'm very straight (sic!) Thank you for the message though, much of what you said echoes. The clean slate theory is hard to swallow, to my mind at times that is equivalent with the marriage later on. Maybe it will be an all clean one after all though. One thing I learned over the past few years is that planning ahead and wishing and willing things into being does not work when it comes to affairs of the heart so at this point I'll just have to sort as much as I can out and then wait and see.

[OW_WS]

*Update*

 

I guess this deserves an entry. The rectangle is but a triangle now. My lengthy, complicated EA is ending/has ended. I'm naturally sad and teary but at the same time, in a strange fashion relieved that this part of the decision has been taken away from me -he was the one who said this is too hard and he is sorry so he's out-.

 

This has happened many a times over the past few years but there's finality about it. At the very least on my part.