jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Yes, I get that jj33. However I wonder what to what purpose. If one were totally happy with one's position, with one's choices, then why bother posting on an Internet forum about it? Even bragging is a cover up for something negative. And if one isn't happy, then why stay in that position or continue to make the same choices? Personally, I feel that everyone here is unhappy with some aspect of their choice(s) and is looking for a different way and for reassurance that a change is right. I believe even those that protest their happiness wouldn't be here unless there was something they disliked about being an OW. Once you are in the position of being an OW, whether you decide to stay or go, it is most likely to be a struggle. You stay as long as the pros outweigh the cons, but it is still not easy. You need to sort things out in your mind, when you find yourself in a position where you most likely have never been before and do not intend to be in again, but how do you deal with it now that you are already there? I come to think of Al-Anon where I have been a member. Al-Anon teaches that we can find a way to live whether we decide to stay with the alcoholic or not. Al-Anon does not preach leaving the alcoholic, the decision to stay or go is up to its members. Whatever they decide they get support in coping with every day life and self development. I think this board could use that outlook. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 You stay as long as the pros outweigh the cons Do the pros ever outweigh the cons? Is it not the prospect of things getting better, i.e. the MM leaving his wife for the OW, that keeps an OW as an OW? Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Do the pros ever outweigh the cons? Is it not the prospect of things getting better, i.e. the MM leaving his wife for the OW, that keeps an OW as an OW? Oh, most certainly do the pros outweigh the cons. If I learnt today that my MM was never to leave his wife, I would still cherish the journey we have had. What an intense relationship, so many blissful moments. The journey is worth traveling even if we do not reach the goal. This is something that should not be forgotten. We can't live in the future, we need to live today. Would I leave him if I understood there was no hope? Perhaps, perhaps not. Depending on the balance of the pros and cons. I know what we have, and that is good stuff. After four years of EMR the proportion of pros versus cons have changed a bit, but the pros still outweigh the cons or I would not be in this relationship. We do not always marry or come to live together with the men we date or have a relationship with, you know. That is just life. We still enjoy them while they are in our lives. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Oh, most certainly do the pros outweigh the cons. If I learnt today that my MM was never to leave his wife, I would still cherish the journey we have had. What an intense relationship, so many blissful moments. The journey is worth traveling even if we do not reach the goal. This is something that should not be forgotten. We can't live in the future, we need to live today. Would I leave him if I understood there was no hope? Perhaps, perhaps not. Depending on the balance of the pros and cons. I know what we have, and that is good stuff. I guess it's a personal thing and for for me I would never feel good being with a man who was never wholly mine. After four years of EMR the proportion of pros versus cons have changed a bit, but the pros still outweigh the cons or I would not be in this relationship. I wonder if what you perceive as cons others would see as pros and vice versa. We do not always marry or come to live together with the men we date or have a relationship with, you know. That is just life. We still enjoy them while they are in our lives. Ah, but while they were mine, they were wholly mine. Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I guess it's a personal thing and for for me I would never feel good being with a man who was never wholly mine. I wonder if what you perceive as cons others would see as pros and vice versa. Ah, but while they were mine, they were wholly mine. Is that true, I remember you saying you were a BS? A caring, gentle man and good sex are things I believe everyone would see as pros, right? Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Is that true, I remember you saying you were a BS?And that's why I left him! But besides that, I didn't get into the relationship with him knowing I was sharing him with any other women A caring, gentle man and good sex are things I believe everyone would see as pros, right?Not if he's being caring and gentle to and having sex with another woman as well as me! Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I wonder how many OW have to come here, and places like it, to justify their position because they can't give that reassurance to themselves. And they can't give it to themselves because in their heart of hearts they know its not justifiable. I've seen very few OWs in that position. Most are struggling with being in that position, and are not seeking justification for it but support in dealing with the conflicts and cognitive dissonance, as well as seeking input on particular issues. If one were totally happy with one's position, with one's choices, then why bother posting on an Internet forum about it? Even bragging is a cover up for something negative. And if one isn't happy, then why stay in that position or continue to make the same choices? Personally, I feel that everyone here is unhappy with some aspect of their choice(s) and is looking for a different way and for reassurance that a change is right. I believe even those that protest their happiness wouldn't be here unless there was something they disliked about being an OW. In my case, I was completely happy with my choices, and still am. My original reason for posting was to seek input on a particular issue, about which my then-MM felt conflicted, and on which I had no direct personal experience from which to offer input - so I sought the voices of those who may themselves have been in such a situation, to see what their experience could offer on that. Do the pros ever outweigh the cons? Is it not the prospect of things getting better, i.e. the MM leaving his wife for the OW, that keeps an OW as an OW? That all depends on what you want. I've been an OW many times, because THAT was what I wanted - not some guy to leave his W for me (which I've had many times too). At the point where I wanted something different, I got it. Some OWs are quite happy being OWs. Others are not. Different strokes for different folks. Link to post Share on other sites
torranceshipman Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 In answer to your question, yes, this board really did help me! I walked away from my situation pretty dam quick after the posters here opened my eyes, and I am extremely grateful for that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 Torranceshipman, thanks for that. I presume you were an OW? Do you think you're a rare example of an OW being motivated by LS to remove herself from an affair? And can you remember what it was that was said here that helped you? And who said it? OW? BS? Both? How's it going anyway? How're you finding things post MM? Link to post Share on other sites
Holding-On Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think Torrance is an ex-OM, if I remember correctly. It is easier to get true support as OM. OW are treated much worse, here and the world over. Up to and including stoning. To answer the original question. Yes, this place did help me to end it. I came to understand that the BW was never likely to see non-monogamy as any more appealing than I saw monogamy. It helped that the BS I encountered first on this site were polite and that it seemed to be a SUPPORT board for OW/OM rather than a condemnation or pity party board. Honestly I went to SI first but the attitude of the BS there, like a few posters of late, was so vile, I ended up feeling extremely sympathetic to their WS. I went to GB but I was not interested in being someone's one and only and could not relate. I went to the poly boards where despite gloomy prophecies it was hard not to take hope. I ended up here. Link to post Share on other sites
torranceshipman Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hi there, Yes I was an OW. The short story was that I got involved at a pretty vulnerable time by someone who I had known for years and had tried unsuccessfully for years (I refused because of his partner) to get with me (under the understanding that he was 'in the process' of ending it with his long term girlfriend). In the end he went to huge lengths to make it happen and lied a huge amount, but when I got to LS it was basically like a load of people saying 'I've been here before, he's telling the same tired old lies' etc - so I saw through it all quick and actually ended up despising him for it all. I learnt a massive life lesson to really NEVER compromise any personal values or boundaries again, and I walked quick and I only shudder to think how long i might have been caught up in all that crap with him if the LSers here hadn't seriously given me the run down. I think the only difference between me and a lot of the LSers is that I looked on him as a loser for lying and so I never pined for him or wished it had worked out - I was glad for the lucky escape, actually! As for life now - it's really fab. I've always dated a lot (i.e.dinner dates) but am very happy in my own company until I meet someone special...I walk away quick if I work out a guy is being flaky and will never try to force anything to work, and right now I am dating someone really amazing who treats me very, very well. Hope that helps Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thank you! Its so great LS helped you to get yourself out of the situation and good news that you're doing well It seems that vulnerability is a common factor in becoming an OW and maybe escaping the OW situation can only come about when inner resourcefulness is found. But it seems that unless inner strength and a desire to find it exists to begin with, the OW is going to remain in a less than healthy situtation. Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Have any OW been persuaded to put an end to her affair with a MM by this board? Not persuaded but they did make me think more about how it'd be like to be a full on OW which something I couldn't handle. If so, what was said here that helped you? Do you regret it ending the relationship? It ended because some of the advice given by fOW (GEL, TC, Bunset etc) here - I thought about and processed them and in the end, I decided to tell him to sort his things out and come back when he's no longer married. I did not regret a single bit - he came back with the divorce papers and we are now engaged. Still have a long way to go - taking our time . Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Wow, Lyssa, congratulations! So good so far! I am truly happy for you. Link to post Share on other sites
torranceshipman Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It's a hard one - I think vulnerability is a big part, but naivete really can be, too. You also can't underestimate the actual lengths that an MM can go to , to keep an OW involved, unless you've experienced it yourself. It is true bare faced lying, manipulation and emotional blackmail - quite unbelievable, and unless you've been through it, it's probably not possible to understand how effective it is. Some MM's will literally say and do anything to keep an A going. I think it all comes down to one thing - never get involved with someone unless they are truly single - there are NO exceptions - and if they pretended to be single when you met and actually aren't (I think some MM's do this!), then RUN as soon as you find out they aren't single (preferably, warning their W as you go, so they can't do it again!!). Aside from that, I personally don't understand why people would stay in A's as they are just miserable rollercoasters, and the MM is offering nothing but disrespect... Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 This is controversial I suppose. My MM did pursue me to all lengths, because he was so into me. Having a man pursue you like that is very tempting of course. Other than that he just needs to be himself, because he is such a wonderful caring man that I just so enjoy my time with him. My naivity consisted of the fact that I believed someone who could pursue you like that and be that into you would divorce his wife sooner rather than later (or never). Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 It's a hard one - I think vulnerability is a big part, but naivete really can be, too. You also can't underestimate the actual lengths that an MM can go to , to keep an OW involved, unless you've experienced it yourself. It is true bare faced lying, manipulation and emotional blackmail - quite unbelievable, and unless you've been through it, it's probably not possible to understand how effective it is. Some MM's will literally say and do anything to keep an A going. I haven't experienced it as an OW, but the same manipulation techniques were used on me as a BS, firstly to stop my suspicions, then to stop me dumping him and then to try to get me to take him back. They worked at first, so I know how compelling that sort of man can be. Aside from that, I personally don't understand why people would stay in A's as they are just miserable rollercoasters, and the MM is offering nothing but disrespect... Me either... Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Wow, Lyssa, congratulations! So good so far! I am truly happy for you. Thank you . Link to post Share on other sites
Author jasminetea Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 Lyssa, do you think your fiance would have left his wife is you had stayed as the OW? Oh and congratulations, that's great news Link to post Share on other sites
Lyssa Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Lyssa, do you think your fiance would have left his wife is you had stayed as the OW? Oh and congratulations, that's great news Yes, he would have anyway. It wasn't the same for both over the years as his xW told me the same thing in one of her emails. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
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