The Pick Up Artist

[Woggle]

I can't compete with these extras from a bad porn shoot. Not only are they all studs--just gaze at the animal splendor of Chicken man and Lizard man-- but they all who are armed with the latest, most sophisticated PUA seduction techniques.

 

How can a regular, old fashioned guy meet,mate and propagate his DNA with this PUA possee monopolizing all available women?

 

Well, if you can't beat them...

 

In a way they do sane and normal men a favor because these PUAs only get the bottem of the barrel when it comes to women. Can you picture an intelligent and together woman actually falling for this crap?

[Island Girl]

In a way they do sane and normal men a favor because these PUAs only get the bottem of the barrel when it comes to women. Can you picture an intelligent and together woman actually falling for this crap?

 

Sad that this is true.

 

The young women who are taken in by this stuff are suffering from self esteem issues and crave attention.

They may have grown up without an appropriate adult male figure and have no idea what to look for in a man.

 

One in four women has been sexually abused so the theory of circling the room to find a possibility rings true. Eventually you'll find someone who thinks what you said is funny/interesting/intriguing.

 

I wonder if any of the people involved ever think it could possibly turn into a relationship? I am guessing not because of PUAs lack of ability to sustain any kind of meaningful relationship...

[Thaddeus]

At the risk of running afoul of the fine women of this board, I read Strauss' book some time ago and decided, just for fun, to try out some of the techniques at a house party and a pub (different occasions).

 

Full disclosure: I was NOT there to pick up women or bed a stranger. I was sort of a self-imposed challenge to see how many phone numbers I could get.

 

Well, I'll be damned.

 

Out of the 11 women that I approached, I got 9 numbers.

 

Yes, it surprised the hell out of me.

 

As for the assertion that it only works on those with self-esteem and entitlement issues, personal experience says otherwise. These women that I approached weren't little chickies just out of their teenage years having their first drink. Six of them were professional women (insurance, banking, health care), and two were already married.

 

Again, to re-iterate: I did not do anything other than collect a few phone numbers

 

Here's the thing that many of the PUA's "targets" may not understand: If the PUA (and I'm not one, not even close) is "on his game," the "target" will have NO IDEA that she's being played. These guys come in so under the radar and are soooo smooth that even the most attractive and intelligent women can get suckered in.

 

Now, to be sure, I actually read Strauss' book as a cautionary tale about how the PUA community imploded and some of the members ended up in the care of a psychologist, completely unable to relate to women outside of a PUA scenario. I didn't read it as some sort of manual, but more as a warning.

 

Still, my little self-imposed experiment yielded surprising results. So to assert that, "that would NEVER work on me" just doesn't hold water (no disrespect intended). Some of these guys are so good that you have no idea what's happening until it's all over.

 

*edit to add*

 

By the way, women's restrooms are, generally WAAAYYY more disgusting than men's. I was on washroom duty a million years ago when I worked at a grocery store, and I've never been more disgusted in my life. Ewwww...

[Lyssa]

Are you tempted? Would it ruin your night if this group did not head in your direction? What would it take for you to go home with one of these men? If you had to choose, which one would it be and why?

 

Geez... none for me, pls! Goggles looks like he's ready to go brokeback moutain on some guys.

 

I've had guys pull those lame tactics on me. My "favorite" is the one where they insult you. Wow, I can't believe that works. So demeaning. I feel sorry for the girls who fall for that one. And what kind of man are you if you feel like it is ok to insult a woman, especially one you just met? What kind of classy gent does that? Answer: none.

 

I feel really sad for the girls that fall for the insults. Really. Shame on them!

[Jersey Shortie]

Suddenly there's a bit of a commotion at the door. The sound of bouncers debating whether or not to let a particular group in. You can hear raised voices and dropped names (one of the group is the friend of a friend of a co-owner of the bar). After a brief scuffle, the group makes its [COLOR=#990000]entrance[/COLOR].

 

These are the eminent pick up artists of our generation. The one who looks like a stork who escaped from an oil slick is Mystery. The lizard-suited bald one next to him is Neil Strauss - writer of The Game.

 

Are you tempted? Would it ruin your night if this group did not head in your direction? What would it take for you to go home with one of these men? If you had to choose, which one would it be and why?

 

I am so confused. Why would I be impressed with people who caused a commotion just to get in a place. This leaves me very unimpressed. I would look up from my friends to see who the douches were but ultimately would probably be looking at the hot bartender with the tat on his forarm and puppydog eyes.

[Woggle]

Professional women often have the most issues when it comes to this stuff. Nothing that is born from playing games like this can ever turn out good. I admit that many women fall for this but those are not the type of women men need to go for if they want any chance of a healthy relationship. Gp fpr the small percent that actually responds to honesty and sincerity. These PUAs can have the headcases they attract with their tactics.

[Surfer Dude]

I read the book as well. Truth be told, I find it preposterous that someone can write in his own book that he's the world's 2nd best PUA or something like that. What most people don't get (including the ladies here) is that these guys aren't in it for women as much as they're in it for fame and all the Hollywood prestige. They want attention. Mystery himself once said that he wants attention and men and women to admire him. By writing these books, they not only managed to meet tons of celebrities (actors, rock starts, magicians), but the have become celebrities by themselves.

 

And luring desperate men with the promise of "lifetime of unlimited pussy" is a gold mine for these guys. You people wouldn't believe how many guys actually pay $2K upwards for these weekend seminars. I've been observing that scene for a long time, and it seems to me that most of these guys are just scammers who manage to put a bunch of words in a fancy package and sell that to men. Playing someone's desperation card is what these guys do.

 

 

Full disclosure: I was NOT there to pick up women or bed a stranger. I was sort of a self-imposed challenge to see how many phone numbers I could get.

 

Well, I'll be damned.

 

Out of the 11 women that I approached, I got 9 numbers.

 

Yes, it surprised the hell out of me.

 

Actions yield results bro

What most men don't know, is if that they just go out and be sociable, they will meet tons of cool people and women to enrich their lives. It's a piece of piss really. In these books and TV shows they make it look like some rocket science (well it has to look complicated if you want to sell it).

 

As for the assertion that it only works on those with self-esteem and entitlement issues, personal experience says otherwise. These women that I approached weren't little chickies just out of their teenage years having their first drink. Six of them were professional women (insurance, banking, health care), and two were already married.

Yes. Social status and "intelligence" have nothing to do with it and I have plenty of stories to account for that.

 

Here's the thing that many of the PUA's "targets" may not understand: If the PUA (and I'm not one, not even close) is "on his game," the "target" will have NO IDEA that she's being played. These guys come in so under the radar and are soooo smooth that even the most attractive and intelligent women can get suckered in.

Most PUAs (I'd dare to say 95%) are just guys who took those seminars, got a temporary state boost and went out to mindlessly approach women. They have no inner confidence and very shaky beliefs about who they are in this world. Therefore, their outer actions come off very fake and artificial. The fact that they rely on canned routines isn't helping really. Those guys have no clue what they're doing and they usually end up being clowns.

 

However... Some of the bese seducers (I avoid using the word PUA, as it has a connotation of those desperate geeky men) were guys that nobody knows and who operate totally solo. Hell, some of the smoothest guys I've ever seen are very low-key guys who attract very little attention. But they operate so under-the-radar, it's almost an art. No magic tricks, no flashy clothes... most women would never even notice they were being seduced. They'd just think that he's "omggg, a really hot and confident guy".

 

Now, to be sure, I actually read Strauss' book as a cautionary tale about how the PUA community imploded and some of the members ended up in the care of a psychologist, completely unable to relate to women outside of a PUA scenario. I didn't read it as some sort of manual, but more as a warning.

Some guys were messed up to begin with. A guy who really loves women and simply wants to establish meaningful relationships with women will never become a victim of these twisted misogynist perspectives. For all we know, many of these guys could've been misogynist in the first place.

 

Still, my little self-imposed experiment yielded surprising results. So to assert that, "that would NEVER work on me" just doesn't hold water (no disrespect intended). Some of these guys are so good that you have no idea what's happening until it's all over.

Yes, that comes with the experience. I've seen a lot of smooth operators who can pull off really amazing stuff in social settings (not saying I'm one of them).

 

Anyway, these green PUAs are just guys who are social misfits. Some of them experienced a lifetime of rejection due to their low self esteem. Some of them have severe issues and baggage due to being raised in bad environments (e.g. Mystery). But I don't know why so many women are hateful and spiteful towards these guys. I think that clearly says more about the bitches and their messed up characters who sh*t on such people than these guys who at least try to make a difference in their lives.

 

Truth is, I'm always nice and respectful to women, but if they act like bitches and try to pull off something disrespectful, I'll let them know they can go F themselves. In this busy, chaotic world, we only have time for select few people who appreciate us and don't give us any sh*t.

[gypsy_nicky]

very interesting thread, will look into this PUA stuff. I think what strauss and mystery are doing is applying social psychology in the dating scene.

 

As one poster stated, "this does work", well maybe because its a skillful art of covert manipulation.

 

In saying this, can women actually tell the difference between natural charisma and learned charisma? -(remember that as with everything we do-practice makes perfect and someone actually having mastered PUA material may well adapt it to his personality/temperament making it go under the radar).

[Island Girl]

Still, my little self-imposed experiment yielded surprising results. So to assert that, "that would NEVER work on me" just doesn't hold water (no disrespect intended). Some of these guys are so good that you have no idea what's happening until it's all over.

 

Sorry Thaddeus but there is no method or anything else that works 100% of the time.

 

There are women out here in the world that don't get worked over by so called smooth operators no matter what tricks they are using.

 

 

Oh. And by the way - professional women, married women, etc. - in essence women from all walks of life can suffer from self esteem issues, etc. when it comes to men and relationships.

You can't tell from a woman's job whether she has these types of problems.

One in four. That means they are all over doing all kinds of things including bankers, lawyers, convenience store workers, you name it.

[lora22]

I read the book as well. Truth be told, I find it preposterous that someone can write in his own book that he's the world's 2nd best PUA or something like that.

Tyler Durden, is that you?? Sorry I had to.

 

I read the book as a highly entertaining novel about a bunch of train wrecks; moral of the story, confidence is key in dealing with women AND men.

 

Second: I guess I'm more shallow than I thought, because to be honest, I would be mortified to be seen having any sort of extended conversation, let alone leaving the bar with, someone dressed like Mystery or Strauss.

 

Third: I find it incredibly amusing when guys try the tactics from the book/show (I've actually never watched the show, but I'm assuming) on me.

 

Once, I had a guy who used the whole arsenal on me. A couple of highlights:

- He kept "negging" me: for example, at one point I mentioned that I was talking salsa classes; he totally put me down, and said something like everyone does that. So I was like, OK, let's poll the bar. He told me not to talk to other guys, so of course I started pulling other guys into the conversation, so he

- "punished" me by leaving and talking to another girl nearby. I actually found that to be a relief, because I wasn't into this guy at all. Too bad he came back when he saw I didn't care.

 

Long story short, by the time my friends and I left the bar, I had a bunch of guys offering to rescue me from the wannabe PUA, and/or begging me to stay at the bar.

[Taramere]

What most people don't get (including the ladies here) is that these guys aren't in it for women as much as they're in it for fame and all the Hollywood prestige. They want attention.

 

I think most of us do realise that, SD.

 

 

Anyway, these green PUAs are just guys who are social misfits. Some of them experienced a lifetime of rejection due to their low self esteem. Some of them have severe issues and baggage due to being raised in bad environments (e.g. Mystery). But I don't know why so many women are hateful and spiteful towards these guys.

 

We're not being spiteful and hateful. If these guys are prepared to give up whatever's left of their psychological health in the hope of emulating the lifestyle of someone like Mystery, I don't hate them for it or feel spite towards them. But I do reserve the right to double up laughing about it.

 

Okay okay. I took another look at the photograph and I'm feeling my pity buttons being pressed. Especially by paisley shirt. Neil Strauss has a kind look about him. He should be throwing the lizard suit away, popping on an arran cardie, getting a roaring fire going and giving Paisley some serious counselling on building his self esteem. And not by trying to kid him that he'll get easy sex from beautiful women by dressing strangely and insulting them in bars.

 

Truth is, I'm always nice and respectful to women, but if they act like bitches and try to pull off something disrespectful, I'll let them know they can go F themselves. In this busy, chaotic world, we only have time for select few people who appreciate us and don't give us any sh*t.

 

Becoming the guy who won't take any sh*t sounds all well and good - but not so much if it results in a man taking himself way too seriously. Men will always laugh at women, and women will do it back. Which is the aim of this thread. God knows, there's no shortage of "laughing at women" material on the Internet. It's useful to find out which men can laugh at the more ludicrous aspects of their own gender too.

[grogster]

very interesting thread, will look into this PUA stuff. I think what strauss and mystery are doing is applying social psychology in the dating scene.

 

As one poster stated, "this does work", well maybe because its a skillful art of covert manipulation.

 

In saying this, can women actually tell the difference between natural charisma and learned charisma? -(remember that as with everything we do-practice makes perfect and someone actually having mastered PUA material may well adapt it to his personality/temperament making it go under the radar).

 

I bet the older, brighter ones can discern the difference between technique and charm. The best technique in the world cannot compensate for utter charmlessness and a lack of attractiveness.

 

Looks, personality and natural charisma--you either have it or you don't.

 

If you don't, all the PUA tactics (and lizard suits)in the world won't make a difference.

[Lyssa]

See... every time I look at that pic, I still think that Goggles was trying to go brokeback mountain on someone! Am I the only one that sees that?!

[Surfer Dude]

Damn, I crack up every time I see that picture. I mean wtf

No wonder so many guys get wrong ideas about attracting women (wearing stuffed animal hats, weird goggles, platform boots etc).

 

Truth is, a lot of seduction/PUA material out there is really great if you know how to apply it. But man... Mystery and Style really manage to convey some messed up ideas.

[Epsilon]

I think one of the only reasons people look at Strauss/Mystery/PUA's/etc in this "creepy" light is because they have revealed their strategies. Therefore, people experience reactivity in a psychological sense.

 

Had you not known these guys were PUA's, you'd probably fall for certain tactics and think they were genuinely confident, cool guys. They can act just as "under the radar" as the best of them as long as you don't really know what they're doing. Part of it is the mystery, and PUA's have effectively brought that out to light.

 

It's the bad PUA's that make the system fail, in my opinion. The first step to actually having confidence is perhaps faking it at first, but too many people head out into the field without really knowing what they're doing, using canned techniques and scripts. The whole point of skilled social interaction is being able to think on your feet through lots of experience.

 

Certain PUA "tricks" have some very strong logic to them -- it's not just about feeding on the weak-esteemed or the desperate. A good PUA will not give off vibes that they are a PUA.

[Island Girl]

In saying this, can women actually tell the difference between natural charisma and learned charisma?

 

Yep. There are just some things that translate.

 

For instance, the pattern of Mystery's speech and how fast he tends to talk indicate he grew up insecure and feeling inadequate.

He speaks as if he has to "prove" something in everything he says which indicates he has manufactured confidence and is NOT confident in all situations.

He is confident in his arena only - hence him having to use the 3 second rule and if it doesn't work he must move on.

He can't chat up ANY girl. If she gives him a response he can't overcome then he moves on immediately. He is looking for a select type of girl that his crap works on.

 

If he stood next to a guy who has had that charisma, athleticism, ability, and popularity with other people as well as beautiful girls his entire life there are light years between the two.

[Epsilon]

Island Girl, while I agree with you, I ask you: What makes a person confident in the first place?

 

I would argue that there must be some form of success. If you are continually failing, you're not going to be confident. Confidence implies how ready you are to lean against a support base -- if that base has proven to be weak, you're not going to be so willing to rely on it. Overcompensation can be seen as an artificial, learned confidence, but I think it's all in the mindset. As you talk to more and more women, you gain confidence once you see what works and what doesn't, and evolve your approach from there.

 

You're not going to be compatible with everyone you approach, but you'll certainly gain experience and help you be more confident in your attributes that are strong and can be built upon. PUA is not, in my opinion, about turning yourself into someone you're not. It's about figuring out what you're good at and advertising yourself in the best way possible -- how do you wear your strong attributes on your sleeve?

 

Again, the problem comes from a misinterpretation of this notion. If you go out to clubs with the idea that you can pick up any hot woman, then you're going to come across as a douchebag. There are merits to the "teachings" of PUA, but you need to take a few things with a grain of salt, understand why certain things are taught the way they are, appreciate what psychology makes sense in certain teachings, and learn to fit it all to your own personality and way of thinking. Would I pay $2000 for a seminar? Absolutely not. But I'm not going to say PUA is a useless subject, since I do think there are many valid concepts behind it.

[Island Girl]

Had you not known these guys were PUA's, you'd probably fall for certain tactics and think they were genuinely confident, cool guys.

 

Sorry but before I even knew he was a "PUA" or what that was I saw a picture of two of these douches in a magazine.

 

I couldn't see the caption and my instant thought was "OMG who is that lame ass in that stupid furry hat?!" so I read the caption and learned that guy was "Mystery".

I thought initially he was some wannabe magician.

 

I laughed out loud when someone told me about Mystery and the whole PUA thing.

 

These guys aren't attractive. The way they dress just emphasizes that.

Some women have taste and a brain hence this not working on every woman out there.

These are the guys that when I was in a club I would NEVER make eye contact with -- and never do anything to encourage them to talk to me. If a guy looking like this did I'd shut them down and could give a crap if they "negged" me.

"Oh you don't think I am that attractive/smart/funny/whatever? GOOD! Please move along now buddy." :lmao:

[Island Girl]

Island Girl, while I agree with you, I ask you: What makes a person confident in the first place?

 

Realizing that EVERYONE has their own personal strengths and having pride in that.

 

NOT wanting to be like everyone else or have stupid gimmicks to stand out either.

 

Being true to who you really are and getting to the point where you embrace yourself regardless of what anyone else thinks.

 

Back to that old saying, "the clothes don't make the man".

 

The PUA stuff does work - on certain young women who are lacking in their own way for various reasons - and it works for quick sex.

 

These practices won't help you get a relationship and none of these guys even claim that to be true.

They prey on those guys who stare at T&A posters on the wall dreaming of having sex with those girls - who watch porn and wish they were that guy having sex with those girls - who watched the athletes in high school have girlfriends and thought "he is probably having sex with her".

 

These aren't the guys who even think a bit further about happiness or a fulfilling relationship.

They have never even had real conversations with women. They choke and stutter when facing that possibility.

Sex with lots of girls they think are hot. That the entire spectrum of the thought process.

[Taramere]

These are the guys that when I was in a club I would NEVER make eye contact with -- and never do anything to encourage them to talk to me. If a guy looking like this did I'd shut them down and could give a crap if they "negged" me.

"Oh you don't think I am that attractive/smart/funny/whatever? GOOD! Please move along now buddy." :lmao:

 

I'm pretty sure of how it would all pan out for me too. Paisley would start out with a neg or two, I'd say something mean back and then he'd get offended and angry. I'd feel guilty, and maybe 25 minutes later he'd be crying into his beer about his divorce and about women generally.

 

The guy in the white shirt would be hovering around, trying to look positive and cheery - and ever hopeful of getting his end away once Paisley had finished crying into his beer about his ex wife.

 

The one in the blue shirt at the back would be standing for about 2 hours in that exact stance he has in the pic (a pint of beer in his right hand, though), looking around the room awkwardly and desperate to get home to his computer. In an effort to show myself how good I am at drawing people out (as well as trying to figure out what the hell was going on between this bunch of wierdos) I'd be trying hard to draw him out. I'd be getting monosyllabic answers.

 

I'd turn to White Shirt, who would be standing by with a patient "still hopeful of getting a shag at the end of the night" smile on his face, and start quizzing him about what was going on. I'd be on the verge of finding out, when navy-blue-pants-and-shirt would spin around and silence him with a warning glare.

 

Navy-blue-pants-and-shirt is the real baddie in amongst all this. Mystery and Strauss pale into insignificance next to him. Navy there knows. It's unforgiveable. Every instinct he has is telling him "this is already the most embarrassing night of your life, and it's going to get even worse..."

 

He's determinedly ignoring those instincts. Continuing stubbornly in the mission against all his better judgement. Why? Because he refuses to accept that the seminar was a complete waste of money. In order to demonstrate that it was worth every penny he has placed his trust and faith in this man.

[donnamaybe]

All of those guys look smarmy and "used car salesmanish" to me. Ick!

[Woggle]

If a man wants quick sex there is way to do it other than this. I never see real players reading these kinds of books.

[MusicChick24]

I enjoyed watching the Pick Up Artist show and their techniques but anyone who is amazed that this works has to realize it's all based on core confidence. I like men who are confident (who doesn't) but I am not attracted to the Pick up artist type. I feel that they are not genuine and that turns me off. But other women fall for it like candy.

[Island Girl]

In order to demonstrate that it was worth every penny he has placed his trust and faith in this man.

 

OMG!! THIS IS HILARIOUS!!!

 

Taramere WHERE are you finding this gold!!!

 

THIS is the "Master"!!! :lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

Notice even his toe nails are painted!! And that gross little patch of hair under his lower lip! WFT IS THAT?!! :sick:

[lora22]

:lmao::lmao: I literally have tears rolling down my face reading this.

I'm pretty sure of how it would all pan out for me too. Paisley would start out with a neg or two, I'd say something mean back and then he'd get offended and angry. I'd feel guilty, and maybe 25 minutes later he'd be crying into his beer about his divorce and about women generally.

 

The guy in the white shirt would be hovering around, trying to look positive and cheery - and ever hopeful of getting his end away once Paisley had finished crying into his beer about his ex wife.

 

The one in the blue shirt at the back would be standing for about 2 hours in that exact stance he has in the pic (a pint of beer in his right hand, though), looking around the room awkwardly and desperate to get home to his computer. In an effort to show myself how good I am at drawing people out (as well as trying to figure out what the hell was going on between this bunch of wierdos) I'd be trying hard to draw him out. I'd be getting monosyllabic answers.

 

I'd turn to White Shirt, who would be standing by with a patient "still hopeful of getting a shag at the end of the night" smile on his face, and start quizzing him about what was going on. I'd be on the verge of finding out, when navy-blue-pants-and-shirt would spin around and silence him with a warning glare.

 

Navy-blue-pants-and-shirt is the real baddie in amongst all this. Mystery and Strauss pale into insignificance next to him. Navy there knows. It's unforgiveable. Every instinct he has is telling him "this is already the most embarrassing night of your life, and it's going to get even worse..."

 

He's determinedly ignoring those instincts. Continuing stubbornly in the mission against all his better judgement. Why? Because he refuses to accept that the seminar was a complete waste of money. In order to demonstrate that it was worth every penny he has placed his trust and faith in this man.