Thaddeus Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I'm reluctant to apply, across-the-board, high sounding, simplistic message board rules to the complicated mating dance. Life is messy, and mating more so. Forums like this create simplistic ethical rules and damn those who don't follow them in each and every situation. We're sexual creatures with powerful drives. Often, in the real world, other "higher" interests--especially ones that others celebrate on their keyboards --are ignored, modified, adapted to the specific situation. Care must be taken that we don't confuse text with life and, in the process, demonize male sexuality. We're all perfect when we post. It's life that trips us up on occasion.The Grogster is wise. (No sarcasm here, it's an honest assessment.) Well done. Props to you.
Taramere Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 You were out on one date with a guy, and he said that he was dating others. And that, apparently, was the reason you didn't want to go out with him again. That, to me, makes an unwarranted assumption of exclusivity. I mean, it's not that you and he had been dating for six months or something, it was only a first date. Why should he be expected to be exclusive after one date? Would it be fair of him to expect that of you? I didn't have a problem with it being non-exclusive at that stage. Most definitely not, in fact, as I was in one of those on/off situations with a guy (he was in a similar situation with a woman - and it had been a talking point when we first met). My problem was with him asking for my friend's email and indicating that he wanted a threesome with us. a) Once a guy starts indicating romantic interest in one of my close friends, the spark's going to die very quickly for me. There's just too much potential for drama with a guy you're seeing who's going to try to hit on your friends. Too much potential for it to cause trouble in my friendships with those women. b) I'm not inclined to regard my friends as sex toys to be brought along to spice things up for a guy.
AlektraClementine Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I'm reluctant to apply, across-the-board, high sounding, simplistic message board rules to the complicated mating dance. Life is messy, and mating more so. Forums like this create simplistic ethical rules and damn those who don't follow them in each and every situation. We're sexual creatures with powerful drives. Often, in the real world, other "higher" interests--especially ones that others celebrate on their keyboards --are ignored, modified, adapted to the specific situation. Care must be taken that we don't confuse text with life and, in the process, demonize male sexuality. We're all perfect when we post. It's life that trips us up on occasion. Outstanding post.
Taramere Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I'm reluctant to apply, across-the-board, high sounding, simplistic message board rules to the complicated mating dance. Life is messy, and mating more so. Forums like this create simplistic ethical rules and damn those who don't follow them in each and every situation. We're sexual creatures with powerful drives. Often, in the real world, other "higher" interests--especially ones that others celebrate on their keyboards --are ignored, modified, adapted to the specific situation. Care must be taken that we don't confuse text with life and, in the process, demonize male sexuality. We're all perfect when we post. I'll freely admit that I'm nothing near perfect when I post. Have you seen the number of my posts that have been edited lately? Not to mention the number of my posts generally, of late! Then there are the infractions.... The point I'd try to make here, in relation to my previous post, is that I think the people who get treated best in the long run are the ones who try hard to create an environment of honesty with others they're getting involved with. Even if that honesty results in them discovering that they want very different things out of life, and agreeing to go their separate ways, it's much easier for people to part relatively amicably when they don't feel they've been lied to or cheated in some way. Sometimes the plain truth actually hurts a lot less than all the assumptions and speculations that arise in situations where people aren't being honest. That said, I think honesty is quite an art...because first of all we have to be honest with ourselves. That's the hardest bit, and I think generally it's something we aspire to rather than achieve 100%.
clv0116 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Who said anything about giving your past dating history all up front. However, if you are dating other people at the same time, they should know that. Anything else is cowardly and selfish. B*ullsh*t. No one (who actually gets a date) leads off with their current dating schedule and women do essentially the same thing all the time. They call them male friends but in reality they are backup emotional diapers. It's not normal to spill your guts immediately and remove all boundaries. You are working awfully hard to carefully maniupulate your words as to share "just enough" for you to get by dating multiple women but not enough for them to *really* know what is going on. No wonder you are still single. The women I used to date knew I was seeing others and while they might not have liked it they knew it was natural for a guy with options to do just that. One of those relationships has now progressed to the point of exclusivity, thanks very much for caring. She's sweet, loving, cares deeply about family, is in her mid-20s, loves me to bits, and I think she's just amazing. She used to do local modelling for stores and a few other less 'resume suitable' businesses but her incredible good looks are not what finally snared me.
clv0116 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I didn't have a problem with it being non-exclusive at that stage. Most definitely not, in fact, as I was in one of those on/off situations with a guy (he was in a similar situation with a woman - and it had been a talking point when we first met). My problem was with him asking for my friend's email and indicating that he wanted a threesome with us. Ah is that what he meant? I took it to mean he was interested in both of you individually. Someone who wants to know too much about my personal life too early is an automatic next. Either they don't understand boundaries or they're otherwise deficient in a way I don't care to put up with.
Trialbyfire Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I didn't have a problem with it being non-exclusive at that stage. Most definitely not, in fact, as I was in one of those on/off situations with a guy (he was in a similar situation with a woman - and it had been a talking point when we first met). My problem was with him asking for my friend's email and indicating that he wanted a threesome with us. a) Once a guy starts indicating romantic interest in one of my close friends, the spark's going to die very quickly for me. There's just too much potential for drama with a guy you're seeing who's going to try to hit on your friends. Too much potential for it to cause trouble in my friendships with those women. b) I'm not inclined to regard my friends as sex toys to be brought along to spice things up for a guy.Regardless of the threesome aspect, I think that different people have different social appropriateness levels. IMO, it's incredibly tasteless to pursue a close friend and I don't blame you one bit for ditching him after that first date. As for who gets treated better, neither betrayed spouse or OW/OM gets treated any better, since they're both part of the same cake the cheater munches on...
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 Taramere: The downside of the neutral "open up and tell me all" approach is, of course, that when men feel free to open up and tell you all kinds of things about themselves and their perspective on the opposite sex, it can put you off dating. It's a complicated life, JS! Ain't that the truth! But I agree with your advice and have played it that way before. Sometimes the guy is left wondering what the heck happened but it's not up to me to reward him for his honesty. It's up to me to be incharge of what I need out of life. Care must be taken that we don't confuse text with life and, in the process, demonize male sexuality. We're all perfect when we post. It's life that trips us up on occasion. Well Groster, I certainly don't think I am perfect but I do my hardest to follow the advice I give and treat men, how I would want to be treated. I don't think it's male seuxality that is being demonized so much as it's men's over indulgence in themselves in the name of their sexuality that often comes at a price for women in regards to wanting to be respected and valued by men. It's not normal to spill your guts immediately and remove all boundaries. So now it's spilling your guts and removing all boundaries by letting other women know your dating other women? Give me a break. You are extraexplotiving words to avoide the real topic. The women I used to date knew I was seeing others and while they might not have liked it they knew it was natural for a guy with options to do just that. This entire paragraph reeks of self-indulgence and self-care over anyone else. I doubt you were the only man those women were seeing because usually women have more options then men anyway. She's sweet, loving, cares deeply about family, is in her mid-20s, loves me to bits, and I think she's just amazing. She used to do local modelling for stores and a few other less 'resume suitable' businesses but her incredible good looks are not what finally snared me. Giver her another 10 years when she realizes what you prized most about her waas her age and what you could get from her instead of what you could give her. I digress. I think alot or your comments are really insecurity covered up with male peacock posturing.
sb129 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 No wonder you are still single. People who live in glass houses........
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 SB, I know why I am still single. Epic Fail at trying to take a cheap shot. I wish you luck on your next attempt.
Lizzie60 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Who do men treat better? This is a hard question to answer.. it could be both, the W and the OW.. depending with who he is on that day.. In general, I think the MM treats both women quite fairly. When he's with the OW, she means the world to him.. she's the most attractive, the best lover, the most sensual woman on the planet.. and he truly loves her... When he's with the W, she means the world to him.. she's the best mother to his kids, the best cook, the best housekeeper... he built some 'equity' with her.. (that he doesn't want to lose)... and he, sometimes, truly loves her.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 12, 2009 Author Posted July 12, 2009 You don't cheat on someone you truly love. And I think most women don't think that being treated "fair" is stepping out on you. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter hwo you treat someone to their face. What really matters is how you treat someone when they aren't looking. From my undestanding though Lizzie, you've been with marrried men. Correct me if I am wrong. Most women don't want to be the other women and don't want to be the one getting cheated on. Perhaps your different. Most women feel like it would be lowering themselves.
Lizzie60 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 From my undestanding though Lizzie, you've been with marrried men. Correct me if I am wrong. Most women don't want to be the other women and don't want to be the one getting cheated on. Perhaps your different. Most women feel like it would be lowering themselves. I have been with many many MMs... but I know that a LOT of women, just like me... do NOT want the MM full time.. they just want the A, the excitement, the sex.. etc... (Im thinking married women, single women like me).. I doubt though that most women feel like it's lowering themselves.. I know I don't..
sb129 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 SB, I know why I am still single. Epic Fail at trying to take a cheap shot. I wish you luck on your next attempt. Lol. Same here. Not sure our reasons would match though.
grogster Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Well Groster, I certainly don't think I am perfect but I do my hardest to follow the advice I give and treat men, how I would want to be treated. I don't think it's male seuxality that is being demonized so much as it's men's over indulgence in themselves in the name of their sexuality that often comes at a price for women in regards to wanting to be respected and valued by men. JS, I was not referring to you. I was speaking very generally.
imani Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I'm definitely not pro-cheating, but in answer to this question , I do feel that when it comes to cheaters, the MM or MW do treat their mistress or himbo better than their wives or husbands. I say this because, to me, the minute a person decides to venture outside of marriage, he/she already has decided to put the spouse on the bottom of the todem pole and elevate their "option" a.k.a the mistress or OM. He/she (in their mind) must feel the OW/OM is worth losing their spouse for, otherwise they surely wouldn't go as low as to be cheating on them. The best way to show someone how much you respect them is how you behave when you aren't in their presence.
clv0116 Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 So now it's spilling your guts and removing all boundaries by letting other women know your dating other women? Give me a break. You are extraexplotiving words to avoide the real topic. She: "So are you seeing anyone else? He: "Well, I've been single all my life and I've dated a lot of people. I went to coffee with an old friend last week but it's probably never going to be that sort of relationship but who knows? Also I had a nice acting girl leave a message on my Facebook last week, I guess she's a friend of my sisters or something. Oh and ....." Pretty much gut-spilling or incomplete, which I'm sure is worse. He: "I'm not in an exclusive relationship at the moment" Simple, complete, accurate, truthful. This entire paragraph reeks of self-indulgence and self-care over anyone else. I doubt you were the only man those women were seeing because usually women have more options then men anyway. Women routinely multi-date and routinely get pissed off if men do it. Too bad. Giver her another 10 years when she realizes what you prized most about her waas her age and what you could get from her instead of what you could give her. I digress. I think alot or your comments are really insecurity covered up with male peacock posturing. Well it's a young relationship so there is a chance (reasonably good chance) it will fail, I'll be sure to let you know so you can gloat. A bright day in your otherwise gloomy existence. It's funny because just last night she commented on how giving I am with her. Maybe her expectations are different I guess.
Isolde Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 JS, have you ever realized that by constantly assuming the worst from men, you're actually giving them complete power over your emotions?
grogster Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 JS, have you ever realized that by constantly assuming the worst from men, you're actually giving them complete power over your emotions? Rarely does anyone say anything here that I wish I had said. This is one of those times. A very acute observation.
BUENG1 Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 SB, I know why I am still single. Epic Fail at trying to take a cheap shot. I wish you luck on your next attempt. Cheap shot? Pot...Kettle
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Bueng, please show me anywhere where I made a personal and judgemental comment to that poster except to say their attempt to take a shot at me failed. I didn't. Your comments are nonsensical and don't apply. SB has a history of following me around trying to take shots. JS, have you ever realized that by constantly assuming the worst from men, you're actually giving them complete power over your emotions? Am I assuming the worst or am I being realistic? I use to be alot more optimistic with men. Certain lessons knock the optimism right out.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 She: "So are you seeing anyone else? He: "Well, I've been single all my life and I've dated a lot of people. I went to coffee with an old friend last week but it's probably never going to be that sort of relationship but who knows? Also I had a nice acting girl leave a message on my Facebook last week, I guess she's a friend of my sisters or something. Oh and ....." Pretty much gut-spilling or incomplete, which I'm sure is worse. He: "I'm not in an exclusive relationship at the moment" Simple, complete, accurate, truthful. You continue to apply extremes to make your weak point. This isn't about giving a giant history in the two minutes you meet someone. It's about letting another human being know where you stand so that they are missiled. Why you want to avoid the drama and not just be honest and work so hard to be shady and maniuplative is beyond me. But that's your issue and the issue of the women that unfortunetly date you. Well it's a young relationship so there is a chance (reasonably good chance) it will fail, I'll be sure to let you know so you can gloat. A bright day in your otherwise gloomy existence. It's funny because just last night she commented on how giving I am with her. Maybe her expectations are different I guess. Get over yourself. I could care less if your relationship works or doesn't I actually hope it does. But you have a history about talking about women about what you can get/take from them instead of what you offer and give.
sb129 Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 . SB has a history of following me around trying to take shots. Do I? Says who? You have "history" with heaps of posters if thats the case... I thought I just responded to a few (less than 5 hardly constitutes a "history") of your threads with my opinions. As one tends to do on a public forum. Main problem is, my opinions happen to be very different to yours.
butcher's hook Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 If it's an extended affair I would say the mistress. Let's face if when you are in love with someone you put your best foot forward in every respect, the wife becomres more of a partner or friend so all the best is dedicated to the mistress. Look at what Mark Sanford said about his mistress and the way he described their relationship. When someone describes an affair publicly in terms of deep love and a "soul mate", you know there was a lot given to that relationship that was not being given to his wife.
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