intrepid father Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 My wife and I have been married 9 years coming this August. When we met, she already had a son from a previous relationship. She was 18 at the time, her son was 13 months old and I was barely 20 when we met. I fell in love, with her and I fell in love with her son. We marry within a year. Instant family. Loving my new life. Everything was going great for us. Pursuing the steady climb in life to provide for each other and our family. In 2003 we welcomed our second son into our lives and 2006 our third son. For my wife and I our lives turned into the daily routine of constantly providing for the boys and placing our relationship on the back burner. All the while, we were becoming fairly successfull at life and all that it has to offer. Come to present: My wife wanted big changes for this year.....for herself. She want to experience her individuality and focus on herself. She has told me that she doesn't love me anymore. Which was a bitter pill to swallow. I have realized how the loss of that feeling can happen when we placed our relationship on the back burner over the last few years and never remembered to go back and stir the pot once in a while. We have recently seperated and she is living with some friends of ours right now. She wants to be free and feel the freedom of being an individual. So I let her go and it was the hardest thing to do. She said she didnt want to be married anymore so in a fit of emotion, I filed for divorce and got a case number. Right now that is all it is, a case number as she doesn't want to give me pertinant information, because she said she needs time. I probably shouldn't have filed, but I was acting on emotion. We have talked about things, I have told her I understand and am trying to embrace what she is going through. I still have hope that we can be salvaged, and I know it will take time..She knows that I'll be there for her with open arms anytime. But for me, the sands of time are slowly trickling down and I don't know when the last grain of sand will fall. Our boys are great and they will always be taken care of. As parents we rock! I have all three boys with me at the house. But as a two people that are deeply intertwined we have become so disconnected. Please help me. What more else can I do?
OP3Crimsin Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 It seems you may have some preverbial light at the end of the tunnel. I if you love her and honestly would rather it work out than not, I would destroy your divorce documents and cancel that train before it continues rolling. If you want it to work out don't start a divorce process, it may be over before you want to reconcile. This may sound like a case where you should give her her time and space. You can't help her to discover herself but you're right, you can be there with open arms if she decides to come back. If you can temporarily sever the connection to her for as long as it takes, you may do so. No talking unless it's about the kids or the finances. Do not bring up "Us". She said she needs time to think. I've found out women need to feel needed and appreciated in relationships. So if she does come back, let her know how much she does for you and sometimes try to bear the load with her i.e. chores. You were a little vague in the details but I'm going off what I can. Chin up man, you've at least got a shimmer of hope. I got none.
tojaz Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Shred the divorce papers and suggest some marriage counseling to help her with what she is feeling. I'm going through the same thing with my wife. Theres a lot of advice in my threads, but not much of it has worked so far. I would read them and keep posting. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t190291/ and http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t192892/ Tojaz
Author intrepid father Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 Tojaz & OP3, Thank you for your thoughts and recomendations. Tojaz, I read through both of the threads that you posted and they were both very eye opening, uplifting, and gut wrenching at the same time. Thank you. OP3, I have let her go, to find herself and find what it is that she "needs". Time and space is all I can give but it's the hardest thing for me to do right now..She knows how much she is appreciated, needed & wanted from me and our boys...If/when she comes back...cleaning is my profession. I am an Executive Housekeeper for a shwank hotel chain....so chores aren't an issue for me. lol. One of the biggest things that she has told our friends and myself is that she misses who I was and that I have lost my own sense of individuality. Which is true, because my focus has been on our boys. But looking back, I didn't realize or didnt take the time to realize that the boys are good, they are great where they are at. I have let her know that I too want great things in life, big things..just as she does....and that two individuals that are able to do great things make one union even stronger...she seems really set on doing things on her own, which i understand. She is the type of person who will stick to their guns no matter what, even though she knows what is right. She has even said that to me. " I know the right thing is to come home and love my husband and love my family" She had been spending a lot of time with her girlfreinds prior to our seperation, hanging out, going on girl trips for the weekend, because she needed to take a time out from everyday life. Which is fine. Everyone needs a break. We have had talks in the past (6months) about me wanting her sooo very badly in life, passion and love and me wanting and needing those feelings reciprocated. Which has been very hard for her to do.....my hope is still there. I can sense that it is there for her as well as minute as that feeling may be for her, it's still hope and that all i can go off. Thank you gents.
Author intrepid father Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 I didn't mention, that she does not drive and does not have a drivers license. We would carpool in together day in and day out. We work across the street from each other in a large metropolis. Today she asked if she could use my debit card because she left hers at our friends place. She said she wants space from me and the boys...but she does these little things to acknowledge that she wants to see me(empty hope?). Last night in waiting to be picked up by our friends and transfering her bags into their car she asked if I wanted to get a drink. I said sure. I tried to keep conversation light with banter and she tried to bring up us not being together and i asked that we don't talk about that right now, she said okay. She brings up guys that try to hit on her on the street and her denying the poacher any sign that she is interested. I don't know what to make of it......so confusing.
OP3Crimsin Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Glad to hear you are more than capable of bearing the chores load. And I believe when she talks about guys hitting on her and her not reciprocating, it reveals one of two things. 1.) She's trying to prove that you're still the only one she can picture herself with, or 2.) She's trying to make you jealous and see what you spout off with. To touch on another subject, how would you say you have lost your sense of individuality? What kind of person did she marry and what kind of person have you become? You do have hope. You got any advice for my no-hope situitation? It's titled, "Where do I go from here? I'm stuck!" Keep posting.
tojaz Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Intrepid, let her have her space, but be sure she knows how you feel about dating etc. Even if you don't think thats what she's after, make it clear. If she wants to talk, let her, but don't push her to. If she clams up or things start to be difficult for either one of you call it a night. The more you push, the more space she'll need. I'm living proof, 45 days of married life left TOJAZ
Author intrepid father Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 When we married, I was a almost care free, looking forward to being care-full, looking towards providing for her and us and our new family. I was more spontaneous when it came to outings and hanging with friends. Now, I am more responsible, more mellow, i like to stay home, and be with the family all the time. I don't hang out with friends very often and when she asks if I want to go out i usually say no. If I do go out, I want her to be by my side, I want to be out as husband and wife. She goes out with her friends more often but when we go out I like to have her with me. I realize now that this doesn't always have to be the case, and that I CAN go out and hang out with the fellas. I just never really felt the need to. But now I know that I needed that. I needed that for myself and to build a little bit of space between the two of us. We have been almost inseperable for 9 years now.... tojaz - i have nothing but time on my hands right now, beside hittin the heavy bag and goofin around with my sons all I have is time. I have given her all of the space that she needs...she will be leaving for LA in July to visit her cousin who I am pretty close with..she said she wanted big things so she is going to check out the fashion scene down there. Her cousin is pretty well networked with the fashion industry..i told her best of luck, the world is yours,go get it. I just can't have her forget that a)we still have a mortgage and b) there are three boys that are asking harder and harder questions for me to answer as the days go by. I won't push anything, I have put the "D" on hold. So we will see where time will take us....but the thoughts and frustrations are a bitch...and they ebb n flow like crazy...
tojaz Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 The frustration is par for the course. She has had these feelings for a looooooong time, shes had all the time she needed to analyze them and make her decisions, then and only then did she let you in on the story. Your playing catchup, and your being asked to do it real fast. I've been there man, I'm STILL there. What took her years to formulate, she expects you to get in a matte of days. The time apart will give you time to assess the situation, and get in touch with your emotions. It seems like hell, but things will become clear. Don't try to communicate too much before that clarity, it just stirs up the muck. Even then, listen more then talk. She did this, reconciliation is gonna have to be about her.....until she comes to the table. Then its about "us" Stay tough, You really have a good handle on things. TOJAZ
WTFO Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 The frustration is par for the course. She has had these feelings for a looooooong time, shes had all the time she needed to analyze them and make her decisions, then and only then did she let you in on the story. Your playing catchup, and your being asked to do it real fast. I've been there man, I'm STILL there. What took her years to formulate, she expects you to get in a matte of days. The time apart will give you time to assess the situation, and get in touch with your emotions. It seems like hell, but things will become clear. Don't try to communicate too much before that clarity, it just stirs up the muck. Even then, listen more then talk. She did this, reconciliation is gonna have to be about her.....until she comes to the table. Then its about "us" Stay tough, You really have a good handle on things. TOJAZ Wow, You basically still have a foot in the door. Me? in 07' the stbxw wife said she didn't want it anymore. She stuck around for 2 yrs and I thought the marriage was back on track. My mistake. (don't know why we didn't go to MC)Now we are in a "verbal separation" since Apr. I'm still in the same apartment as her until Aug 1 when I move out. She has a new boyfriend and I know they had sex. I'm in IC and she REFUSES to goto MC now. It's done. I still love her but I need to go NC in Aug. So my advice to you is give her space,but be prepared for the worse and hope for the best and move on with YOUR life. If she comes around great. If not thats ok too. Just diffrent. Good luck. we are all pulling for you.
LisaUk Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Hi, Tojaz's advice to you is spot on! Give her space. I must say for only 3 weeks in you have got a handle on this very quickly. There's def positives there, she asked you for a drink (my ex wouldn't have done that, read my thread I get it if you like), she hasn't asked for divorce, she's saying she needs time to think. All positive. I saw your reply on Lupa's thread. You've already got it, you are doing all the right things. You are giving her space, you aren't talking about the seperation or relationship problems and you are giving off the impression that your good. One thing I can suggest is try and figure out what attracted her to you in those early days? Work on yourself and she will see the changes, will help her become attracted to you again. One thing I've learnt since my split is you need to give off the impresion that you can live without her, but would prefer not to. A little trick for you to use at some point, although perhaps not yet? When you are out with her for a drink or whatever, if it feels right, if yur laughing etc, reach over to her and wipe an imaginery hair of her shoulder. It's a psychological trick (please understand, I don't like game playing, certainly before my ex left I would never have engaged in it, but it seems sometimes it's the only way), it's an intimate act that only those who are close do to each other. It hopefully will have the effect of rekindling intimacy feelings in her. (before anyone says mind control, it isn't, if she doesn't have any feelings left, it won't work and she will pull away sharply)! Keep posting.
Author intrepid father Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 So she had our youngest son this past weekend while I was out of town with our two oldest boys. On my way back into town, we met so I could pick up the youngest of our three amigos...quite a non eventful transfer. This morning she texts me that she had our sons duffle bag as she didn't have it at the time of transfer and she would be at my work in ten minutes to drop it off. So we meet and exchange pleasantries, she told me that I look like I'm doing good. I told her "Yeah, I'm doin the best I can." I got up some courage and asked her if she was still feeling the same about us. To which she replied with a shrug "yeah". I said "okay". I brought up the 4th of July and told her that I was having some company over at the house. We usually have a nice BBQ and blow stuff up with the rest of the neighborhood. She said she was talking with our friends that she is staying with that the plan was for all of them to come to the house as well. I have my reservations about her coming to the house, I don't know why, but I do. I told her we can talk about it and that it was to nice to see her and went back to work.....geez louise this is tough...inside i just want to say, "YEAH, come over!" But that just isn't what is needed at this point. or maybe it is? I just realized that I'm kinda all over the place...but i gotta get this stuff out..
MrMayI Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 you're handling it all very well. look at my thread for an example of how not to handle it. it's a rough ride. i've just gotten started. hang in there.
Owl Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Here's my take: You're enabling her. If she wants to experience what it's like to be single...then let her be single. Move forward with the divorce. Seperate your finances completely, and immediately. Let her find her own rides into work, get her driver's license...whatever. What she has now is the best of both worlds. A man who loves her and is fighting to find ways to take care of her...and complete and total independence with absolutely no true PRESSURES on her from "the real world". Bluntly...I have NEVER seen a "trial seperation" result in the couple successfully getting back together. All it does is allow one or both parties to EASE into the 'single life' again. Smurf that...let her go cold-turkey into reality. Offer the choice of being married to you...or totally and completely without you. Don't sit there and ACCEPT her weaning her way off of you...with you financing that whole painful ride. You need to stop letting her be so comfortable with this. Let her suffer on her own...see how much you really were doing for her. When she feels the loss of that support...it's often an eye opener to her. Right now, she's convinced that you'll ALWAYS be there for her. Friend, backup plan, etc... Remove that security blanket and let her stand or fall on her own...don't let her have this false belief that you're going to support her until she's on her own. I hope this makes some sense to you. It was facing this same realization that got my wife to stop and realize what she was about to lose as a result of her emotional affair...we're happily recovered over five years now.
Sam Spade Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Here's my take: You're enabling her. If she wants to experience what it's like to be single...then let her be single. Move forward with the divorce. Seperate your finances completely, and immediately. Let her find her own rides into work, get her driver's license...whatever. What she has now is the best of both worlds. A man who loves her and is fighting to find ways to take care of her...and complete and total independence with absolutely no true PRESSURES on her from "the real world". Bluntly...I have NEVER seen a "trial seperation" result in the couple successfully getting back together. All it does is allow one or both parties to EASE into the 'single life' again. Smurf that...let her go cold-turkey into reality. Offer the choice of being married to you...or totally and completely without you. Don't sit there and ACCEPT her weaning her way off of you...with you financing that whole painful ride. You need to stop letting her be so comfortable with this. Let her suffer on her own...see how much you really were doing for her. When she feels the loss of that support...it's often an eye opener to her. Right now, she's convinced that you'll ALWAYS be there for her. Friend, backup plan, etc... Remove that security blanket and let her stand or fall on her own...don't let her have this false belief that you're going to support her until she's on her own. I hope this makes some sense to you. It was facing this same realization that got my wife to stop and realize what she was about to lose as a result of her emotional affair...we're happily recovered over five years now. Yes, yes, and yes. Although 'working it out' indeed works in some cases, the odds are so against you, that you might as well go though with the divorce papers. It hurts, but you may be better off ripping off the band aid speedily. Unless you were a jackass and a bad father/husband - which does not seem you were - you don't deserve to be playing any "catch up". Cut her off.
LakesideDream Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 The Owl is wise. I have a hard time understanding why so many men don't listen, or pay attention to what their estranged wives are saying. Your wife is saying she doesen't want to be married, or live with you. She doesen't want to be a wife and mother. To reinforce her position she has left the children (!) with you to caretake and raise so she can "experiance" life on her own. Put the shoe on the other foot. If you did the same you would be universally pronounced a creep or worse. Selfish and self absorbed. Society at large wouldn't tolerate your actions. Because your wife wants to find her "new self" its perfectly acceptable. Humbug. She's the organ grinder, you are the monkey Intrepid. It is truely her turn to see the harsh realities of life.. like accepting responsibility for the son you didn't sire, (returning her to "motherhood" in the process) and opening her checkbook and begin paying the monumental child support you are due to raise the two you have in common. She probably will crumble under the weight of the responsibilities she has built for herself. She will probably never be the woman / wife you married again. At best if you two get back together it's likely she bides her time until the children are grown and flys again. At worst she just abdicates all responsibility (or tries to) and leaves you being a single parent. In the vast majority of these situations there is no hope for return to a normal life together. It's possible, sadly is happens so seldom as to be irrelevant. My advice, which is worth Zero is to go ahead with your divorce. Get her into court and let a judge explain her responsibility and options. Let the cold light of reality shine upon her forcing her to assess the situation she has created. Being a doormat, enabler, and soon if not currently a cuckhold will not serve you or your childrens best interests. Good luck. and Gawds grace.
LisaUk Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I have to admit, both Owl and lakeside make very good points. It is difficult when they go, you hope to hold on to any glimmer of hope because that way you think you can maybe influence/turn round the situation and their decision. Convince them to come back, if you will. Owl and Lakeside, do make the point well, you can't change another persons behaviour, you can only change your own. I don't know what the answer is, truely, I've messed up my own break up situation. Have to say though, Owl and TIY give the same advice and BOTH are reconciled with their wifes.
redblack66 Posted July 2, 2009 Posted July 2, 2009 I filed for divorce and got a case number. I wish I filed for divorce the first time I heard my ex needed space and time and never looked back. Marriage is a serious business, and if you need to go away to explore the world, go, but the door is closed. She knows that I'll be there for her with open arms anytime. Been there. It seems to me that women lose respect if you are there with open arms anytime. MOVE ON.
Gunny376 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Lakeside, Owl have voiced in, and now I will. The three of us are all older men who have been where your at and BACK ~ Jack. First off your being supplicating to the DW (Departed Wife) not 'Dear". Your being her fall-back plan. She's wanting her cake and eat it to. In short my young friend? She's playing you for a fool. Wow! What a set up! She's gets to be and act single, flirt, come and go when she wants to, with whom she wants to, as she wants to! As she damn well sees fit. Meanwhile? Your her back-up babysitter, ATM, debit card ~ all in the hopes of getting back what you once had ~ which is no more. And all she has to do is 'flash' those "Scarlet O'Hara/Betty Davis" eyes, throw you a smile, and hint at the promise of reconciling with you? "Life is hard! But its even harder if your stupid!" to quote John Wayne. And that's an absolute truth about life. The difference between 'ignorance' and 'stupidity' is that with ignorance? You just don't know any better? With stupidity? You've already been down this merry road once before, but you choose to go down it again. Back in the day when I was going through what you now find yourself going through, doing the same things your doing, making the same mistakes your making, becoming a begging, pleading, supplicating shell of a man, ~ sacrificing my self-pride, self-respect, honor, and confidence? I was just plain, old fashion ignorant! This was back before the Internet, back before I quit being a fool and got myself back into school! I'm damn proud to say! I've yet to be stupid with one single woman since. You can't file those divorce papers fast enough. In fact? Your best and only chance it to file them ~ that is if you want your wife back. And when you do? All she's left with is her dreams. You shoot for the moon, (you can always settle for low orbit!) You wife is testing you! That is to say she's "bitch-testing" you, and if you don't 'man-up' your going to lose her for good to some good old boy that's going to use and abuse her ~ but hey? He passed the test! I'm not saying go out and get into with whoever she's flirting with, dating & mating with. I'm not saying for you to go out and get yourself a 'domestic abuse' charge. I'm saying 'man-up' and let her know that your not going to put up with her disrespect, let alone her BS! The choice would be and is simple! "You can straighten up and fly right and be a wife and mother! Or you can be so called 'free' and single! If you choose the latter? Its going to cost you ~ dearly! Your going to pay out the @zz and through the nose! I'M SERIOUSLY SO NOT PLAYING WITH YOUR @ZZ! :mad: IT WON'T BE PRETTY! AND ITS WON'T BE FUN! There's a World of hurt and pain about to come down on your @ss!
Gunny376 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I wish I filed for divorce the first time I heard my ex needed space and time and never looked back. Marriage is a serious business, and if you need to go away to explore the world, go, but the door is closed. Been there. It seems to me that women lose respect if you are there with open arms anytime. MOVE ON. Ah! One of our "learned" students have retured! Glad to hear from you RB! Would love to hear an 'up-date'
redblack66 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Ah! One of our "learned" students have retured! Glad to hear from you RB! Would love to hear an 'up-date' Well, here is a brief update. It has been very hard for me, but good learning experience. My biggest problem is to focus, still, at work. Financially, I am in a deep hole. Physically, I look much better. Understanding life: I am light years ahead of where I was. Ex took nearly a year to prepare a separation agreement with her lawyer. It is about 200 pages. My lawyer, with 25 years of experience, had not seen anything like that. Every little thing had to go through the lawyers. Total waste of money and nerves, but this is how she wanted it. I still do not have the divorce, but I hope by September I will have it. Kids are doing very well. I do not know how it will be in the long run. I can focus on today only (another thing learned). For those where I was two years ago. It seems that there is a definite pattern: "love you but not in love", or "I need space." With the experience I have, as I said, I would file immediately for divorce and get the hell out of the whole thing. This is very easy to say, but very difficult to do. All the relationship books on saving marriage, divorce busting, etc. did more damage to me than helped me. I am reading now Courage to Change, http://www.amazon.com/Courage-Change-One-Time-Al-Anon/dp/0910034796, and I find it very deep and helpful. One has to be in the right state of mind and with the right amount of experience to get it, but very helpful. And I got addicted to yoga. Not bad, ah?
Gunny376 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Well, here is a brief update. It has been very hard for me, but good learning experience. My biggest problem is to focus, still, at work. Financially, I am in a deep hole. Physically, I look much better. Understanding life: I am light years ahead of where I was. Ex took nearly a year to prepare a separation agreement with her lawyer. It is about 200 pages. My lawyer, with 25 years of experience, had not seen anything like that. Every little thing had to go through the lawyers. Total waste of money and nerves, but this is how she wanted it. I still do not have the divorce, but I hope by September I will have it. Kids are doing very well. I do not know how it will be in the long run. I can focus on today only (another thing learned). For those where I was two years ago. It seems that there is a definite pattern: "love you but not in love", or "I need space." With the experience I have, as I said, I would file immediately for divorce and get the hell out of the whole thing. This is very easy to say, but very difficult to do. All the relationship books on saving marriage, divorce busting, etc. did more damage to me than helped me. I am reading now Courage to Change, http://www.amazon.com/Courage-Change-One-Time-Al-Anon/dp/0910034796, and I find it very deep and helpful. One has to be in the right state of mind and with the right amount of experience to get it, but very helpful. And I got addicted to yoga. Not bad, ah? You did good kid! Because you know what! You got your Life back! And that's something some of us seldom do! Now get out there and breath and rub some sunshine on your face! You've got a second chance at Life! Now breath damnit! Breath! Give yourself a chance to exhale!
LisaUk Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 As always Gunny excellent and inspiring advice! You always manage to make me feel better.
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