Just Saying No

[Ariadne]

"Hmmm, married and cheating. NOT a good personality trait."

 

Oh yeah, who would want to have sex with them anyway? A cheating person like that.

[Dexter Morgan]

No sh*t Sherlock. Tell that to all the MM out there - like Jilly's trainer -who cross those lines ALL THE TIME!!!

 

hmm..I believe I do.

 

 

What, it's A-OK for them to go around hitting on women, but the women are the ones who "can and should stop from having an affair"??!??!!

 

No, not ok at all. But they are here telling their story. If they are...well...you know me:rolleyes:

 

 

 

It's always our responsibility to stop them

 

 

No, but it is your responsibility to stop yourself.

[Dexter Morgan]

No, they certainly haven't, have they? And that's my point. Nobody ever seems willing to point out anything at all in the MM's behavior. He basically gets a free pass.

 

nah....I always condone ratting the son of a b!tch out.

[NoIDidn't]

Besides, even discounting my own experience, and just looking at OW posts here and the infidelity research available, OW are way way more culpable than many care to admit. Many try to deny a phenomenon which has been proven to be true: women pursue men who are attached because they find them more attractive by virtue of the fact that he has passed another woman's tests.

 

Oh so true!!!!

 

Women sit around and talk to their friends about just this. Its the constant "she's so lucky to have a guy like him", "I would love to have him, if I did I would ....". A girlfriend or a W knows EXACTLY what they are saying. They are saying if he gave them a chance, they would JUMP ON IT. The commitment part only makes him MORE attractive to them. Not less.

 

Forget the "research". LOL

[NoIDidn't]

If a man cheats - HE has made that personal choice to do so. Just as much as the OW who CHOOSES to have the affair with him.

 

No one should, or can, take responsibility for anyone else's actions, and I think you still fail to get this.

 

An OW isn't responsible for a married man cheating. She's responsible for HER cheating with a married man.

 

 

I agree.

 

No one is responsible for another person's actions unless they are a minor. But we are all responsible for what we do for ourselves.

 

It always amazes me the number of times I read "I've always thought that cheating was wrong, and never imagined that I would be THAT person...." at the start of a post by an OP. Its like they can't say that what they did was wrong. It becomes too personal for them. They can't accept that they may well be decent people doing very indecent and bad things. So they reject it and throw the blame everywhere else.

 

This "Just Saying No" thread is hitting too close to home for some. I agree that its not about forcing other people to be faithful to their spouses. Its about us staying true to our own values and not becoming a party to something we know generally doesn't end well for any of the parties involved.

[Lyssa]

No one is responsible for another person's actions unless they are a minor. But we are all responsible for what we do for ourselves.

 

Yeap, yeap!

[Gamine]

Yep I think I should return the favour and post a similar thread on the Infidelity board, about how some due proposed to me and I turned him down, so BSs have only themselves to blame for landing up with a CS because if they'd "just said no" when s/he proposed in the first place, they wouldn't now be married to a cheater.

 

Seems fair...

 

Now, you see it is this sort of self serving justification (bordering on angry disillusionment) that fires me up as a woman.

 

Why ascribe some 'rebel without a cause' vixen scenario who just can't help she's a hot ticket who loves whomever she loves... devil may care 'tidy packaging' to what is clearly... in its most basic form... merely an act of insecurity and an expression of feelings of inferiority?

 

Married or not, women are women. When it is the wife, she's given a sort of label by the various OW out there as being a hag and asexual 'not satisfying her man'... A declaration that she is somehow not enough of a woman to hold onto her man.

 

The OW declaring that she is a hot vixen simply taking care of the man who the dried up hag isn't woman enough to satisfy.

 

A bigger pile of crap I have never heard.

 

The very same woman who is married to a man who is actively cheating on her may be the very same woman other men would sell their soul to spend time with. So let's be real.

 

I've gone out with my husband only for other men to walk up to him and tell him how lucky he is. Women have crossed restaurants to tell me how gorgeous I am. Okay... but my husband still cheated on me and frankly he did so with someone who was... well... not very good looking and very matronly. But she was easy and because she was desperate she offered him kinky sex talk which fed into his being a natural born ... albeit flawed and sorely lacking in character... Man.

 

So, ladies. Do me a favor and cut the self stroking to the OW's ego and get real. Any woman who would be willing to take care of someone else's man sexually with no return shouldn't be resting on her own laurels. The woman a man truly loves is the woman he protects and provides for. Not simply the woman he plays around with. Everyone knows that.

[OWoman]

The woman a man truly loves is the woman he protects and provides for. Not simply the woman he plays around with. Everyone knows that.

 

IME that would be the OW - though the W didn't get my "playing around with" either.

[Ariadne]

they can't say that what they did was wrong. It becomes too personal for them. They can't accept that they may well be decent people doing very indecent and bad things. So they reject it and throw the blame everywhere else.

 

Nope.

 

Not wrong at all.

 

He wanted to be with me, and I wanted to be with him, end of story.

 

It is people who think:

 

He should only want to be with me (he belongs to me).

 

And she shouldn't want to be with him (he belongs to me).

 

That are wrong... people are free to do what they want.

 

At least the wife of this guy had to balls to let him play and just watch or not give him much hard time.

 

Eventually I let him go.

[Ariadne]

All that is well and good, PROVIDING NO PROMISES OF FIDELITY WERE MADE! It's not about "owning" someone. It's about someone telling their spouse "I promise to make love to you and only you," and then shi--ing on that promise, sneaking around, lying, and deceiving.

 

Oh, that's what all the women want.

 

That some guy would sign with blood his life away.

 

It doesn't work that way.

 

He'll he faithful only if he wants to and chooses to.

 

If he does, fantastic!

 

Lucky you, that's what he wants.

[Ariadne]

And if that is NOT what he wants, why should he lie to suck some woman in to being his cook and housekeeper? Just tell the truth; that you want an open marriage, then find some woman who is okay with that lifestyle.

 

I don't know why you condone men lying and not paying to take care of their children. Do you consider yourself less than a man because you're a woman?

 

Men lie because women can't take the truth.

[Dexter Morgan]

Oh, that's what all the women want.

 

That some guy would sign with blood his life away.

 

It doesn't work that way.

 

He'll he faithful only if he wants to and chooses to.

 

if a man doesn't want to be faithful, then a man has no business being married or making a committment to a woman.

 

and vice versa for women.

 

If a guy feels he is signing "with blood his life away", then he shouldn't get married....simple as that...because he has the absolute WRONG view of marriage and isn't mature enough, or man enough, to handle it.

[Ariadne]

he shouldn't get married....simple as that...because he has the absolute WRONG view of marriage and isn't mature enough, or man enough, to handle it.

 

Well, change happens.

 

As much as people want things carved in stone.

[Ariadne]

It's odd how you continually put women down. You don't think very much of yourself, do you? That's very sad. Someone in your past fed you a whole bunch of BS and, unfortunately, you've bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

 

You give men a pass to lie. Obviously you don't think much of them either. Men are incapable of being honest in your world. What an ugly world to have to live in.

 

Nobody wants to lie.

 

Even children lie when the mothers can't take the truth.

 

They do it to avoid dealing with the madness.

[Dexter Morgan]

Well, change happens.

 

As much as people want things carved in stone.

 

yes, change happens. But when someone decides to change, they need to leave the relationship.....not be a cake eater and betray their SO.

[Ariadne]

Madness? One might classify that kind of child rearing as such. Why would your son have to lie to you? Apparently there are no boundaries in some people's world.

 

My son never lies to me.

 

Madness happens when someone thinks they can dictate someone else's lives, including their free choices.

[Ariadne]

.....not be a cake eater and betray their SO.

 

Betrayal is only in the imagination.

 

You can make it betrayal, but that is your poor thinking.

 

Is free choice.

[Ariadne]

If someone is married to a cheater, and they are unaware of the cheating, THE CHOICE TO NOT BE INVOLVED WITH A CHEATER IS TAKEN FROM THEM! Now THAT is madness in the truest sense!

 

That happens because you can't take the fact that your guy wants to be with another woman and not divorce you.

 

You can't deal with that.

 

Then, you get divorced once you find out the truth.

 

End of story.

[Dexter Morgan]

Betrayal is only in the imagination.

 

You can make it betrayal, but that is your poor thinking.

 

Is free choice.

 

that is one of the most asinine things I have heard yet.

[Dexter Morgan]

That happens because you can't take the fact that your guy wants to be with another woman and not divorce you.

 

You can't deal with that.

 

Then, you get divorced once you find out the truth.

 

End of story.

 

donna, you'd be well advised to just ignore her ramblings...its clearly only meant to get your goat and poke fun at your situation.

 

it has nothing to do with rational thought whatsoever, but more to just get a rise out of you.

[PhoenixRise]

My son never lies to me.

 

Madness happens when someone thinks they can dictate someone else's lives, including their free choices.

 

 

No one wants to dictate someone else's life or their free choice. I just think people should OWN their choices.

 

If you want to have a marriage and also have relationships outside the marriage, you should own that and be upfront about it. There are PLENTY of people who are ok with open marriage.

 

If you have previously promised fidelity to someone and you change your mind and want out of the relationship or you want to change the nature of the relationship then own that. Be upfront. Own your choice.

 

You can't blame the person who is being decieved if the person who is lying is too much of a coward to tell the truth and own their choices.

[Lyssa]

that is one of the most asinine things I have heard yet.

 

Oh there will be plenty more to come, trust me.

[Ariadne]

You can't blame the person who is being decieved if the person who is lying is too much of a coward to tell the truth and own their choices.

 

Well, eventually the truth always out (most of the times anyway).

 

Then, the wife can go on a wrath for the "betrayal" (he actually desired someone else!) or she can get divorced.

 

Is usually what happens.

[PhoenixRise]

Betrayal is only in the imagination.

 

You can make it betrayal, but that is your poor thinking.

 

Is free choice.

 

 

 

NO

 

Betrayal is when someone promises you they will do something and then without letting you know....they go out and do the opposit.

 

Making the decision to not keep a promise is free choice.

 

Not letting the person you made the promise to know that you have changed your mind is a betrayal.

[Gamine]

Nope.

 

Not wrong at all.

 

He wanted to be with me, and I wanted to be with him, end of story.

 

It is people who think:

 

He should only want to be with me (he belongs to me).

 

And she shouldn't want to be with him (he belongs to me).

 

That are wrong... people are free to do what they want.

 

At least the wife of this guy had to balls to let him play and just watch or not give him much hard time.

 

Eventually I let him go.

 

 

Okay, let's see whether you have the same attitude if and when you ever marry. Girlfriends don't like their boyfriends having sex with other women and wives don't like it either. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

Let's get serious here. Every wife could also be an OW. It is done all of the time and it's chronicled at length throughout LS. Now, if I lower myself to cheat on my husband with another married man... following your logic... I now mysteriously transform from being a dried up hag who is insufficient into being a sex pot who can yell from the mountain tops how hot she is.

 

I could be an OW 15 minutes from now if I chose to. That doesn't make me into anything except someone who is sleeping with someone else's husband. It doesn't make me powerful and every time the horny guy rolled around to play out his fantasy it wouldn't magically transform me from the hag into the goddess. It makes me nothing other than what I already am. Screwing a man doesn't make me beautiful and it certainly doesn't make me intelligent, desirable or powerful. It makes me nothing. I don't convert magically into anything. Only now I'd have to live with myself and what I have become.