Notice A Pattern Here....

[boldjack]

Kansas, If you do terrible things, why should you be immune from others telling you this? Why do you think that OW's should have special rights? Do you not believe in free-speech? If someone is mean and hateful to you, IGNORE them. When I was an OM, nobody gave me any special consideration. I considered it part of the price I had to pay for being a cheater. I believe that this zeal for labeling and boxing people is a sign of repression....... OW/OM"s must have a special thread, and BS"s must have a special thread...... Where is the free exchange of ideas? How do we learn? If I had never had to face a BS, I would never have learned the true pain my actions had helped cause .

[confusedinkansas]

Excellent points. You're right bent - we all do judge.

 

& boldjack I'm not looking for any special consideration.

 

Tossing ideas & learning from what we have been thru is, what I thought, this forum was about. None of us are perfect. Even those that are the spouses that were cheated ON - aren't perfect. That's my point in all of this.

[bentnotbroken]

No of us are perfect. I don't expect to ever be perfect. My point is that along with all other abuse, the abuse of an A has long reaching affects. For some of us we have had to deal with harassment from the ow even after an A is long over with. I can't speak for others, but my ability to trust 100% will no longer exist. For me that was a gift that was removed without my consent. No, every WS didn't do that to me. It was one person.

 

For me, it is the same if I were abused physically and saw posts from others who say they abuse too, but no one has any idea what lead up to the abuse or why they abused. And that they are even okay with the abuse because it was a mistake. We all make mistakes, right? I think I would have the same reaction. That may not be fair, as a matter fact it isn't fair. But it is the same way so many WS feel when they call all BS bitter. That is as far from the truth as all AP are aware that a person is married.

 

I guess the thing that has always seemed so out of balance for me it the consious thought. The making plans to meet. They thought put into covering the lie. The thought to ask others to cover. That's a whole lot of thinking, a lot of energy. That same energy could have been put into fixing the problems or legally removing one's self from the problems. Then there is all the thought that goes into minimizing the extent of the interactions with the AP. And for some WS, all the thought that goes into gas lighting a BS and stringing an AP along. All the thought that goes into rationalizing the behavior, until it can be categorized as just a mistake. I understand errors in judgement, been there done that. But could I call my verbal abuse of loved ones as a mistake, or do I call it what it was....a choice not to seek out better coping mechanisms. A choice to get my frustration out at the expense of others self esteem and self worth. The amount of energy that I put into saying "they shouldn't have pushed me to that point or why can't they just do what I want them to do." is the same amount of energy I could have expended to seeking a productive solution.

 

Someone saying to me you are wrong and you need to rectify the situation, would have saved my family and me a whole lot of heartache. Would I have listened, knowing me, not until God stepped into my life. But I think my respect for the person who tried to point me in the right direction, would be a 100 fold. It doesn't take much courage to go with the flow, stick with the crowd. But it does take a lot of courage, and not bitterness for all of us, to say this is what I see and it is wrong. The way I feel a reader can take it or leave. I would have left this site long ago, if a few didn't actually take it. I have reached out and they have accepted. That makes it worthwhile for me to put up with the infractions, the name calling and questioning of my values. As long as God says stay, I will be here.

[confusedinkansas]

I guess when you explain it that way - It does take on a bit of a different lite. Thx!

[desertmoon]

No of us are perfect. I don't expect to ever be perfect. My point is that along with all other abuse, the abuse of an A has long reaching affects. For some of us we have had to deal with harassment from the ow even after an A is long over with. I can't speak for others, but my ability to trust 100% will no longer exist. For me that was a gift that was removed without my consent. No, every WS didn't do that to me. It was one person.

 

I understand losing the ability to trust other people. However,"not trusting" like any other decision is ULTIMATELY a personal choice. To heal from a broken heart is personal choice. To move on from an unrepairable marriage is a personal choice. Everything that one does in one's life whether it is a reaction to something that was done TO you or some freak of nature unless you got killed is ULTIMATELY a personal choice.

 

For me, it is the same if I were abused physically and saw posts from others who say they abuse too, but no one has any idea what lead up to the abuse or why they abused. And that they are even okay with the abuse because it was a mistake. We all make mistakes, right? I think I would have the same reaction. That may not be fair, as a matter fact it isn't fair. But it is the same way so many WS feel when they call all BS bitter. That is as far from the truth as all AP are aware that a person is married.

I'm sorry, Bent, but the above paragraph does not make sense to me. I want to understand it because I think these words are coming from your heart.

 

I guess the thing that has always seemed so out of balance for me it the consious thought. The making plans to meet. They thought put into covering the lie. The thought to ask others to cover. That's a whole lot of thinking, a lot of energy. That same energy could have been put into fixing the problems or legally removing one's self from the problems. Then there is all the thought that goes into minimizing the extent of the interactions with the AP. And for some WS, all the thought that goes into gas lighting a BS and stringing an AP along. All the thought that goes into rationalizing the behavior, until it can be categorized as just a mistake. I understand errors in judgement, been there done that. But could I call my verbal abuse of loved ones as a mistake, or do I call it what it was....a choice not to seek out better coping mechanisms. A choice to get my frustration out at the expense of others self esteem and self worth. The amount of energy that I put into saying "they shouldn't have pushed me to that point or why can't they just do what I want them to do." is the same amount of energy I could have expended to seeking a productive solution.

am I getting this right, that until now you do not understand why an affair is called an "error of judgment"-because it took careful, deliberate planning? An affair has a tendency to snowball....getting bigger, deeper and more complicated. The more involved the AP are with each other the more complicated for the WS to keep a balance with the life (marriage, wife, kids, mortgage, etc)he has separate from the affair. The more complicated, the more lies. Part of the difficulty in wrenching one's self from an affair is it does not get the kind of condemnation other abuses get. Unlike the other forms of abuse, nobody really goes to jail because of an affair-at least not in non-islamic countries. So it does seem like there is a tacit tolerance by society about adultery to some degree-e.g. Clinton, JFK, Giuliani, to name a few.

 

Someone saying to me you are wrong and you need to rectify the situation, would have saved my family and me a whole lot of heartache. Would I have listened, knowing me, not until God stepped into my life. But I think my respect for the person who tried to point me in the right direction, would be a 100 fold. It doesn't take much courage to go with the flow, stick with the crowd. But it does take a lot of courage, and not bitterness for all of us, to say this is what I see and it is wrong. The way I feel a reader can take it or leave. I would have left this site long ago, if a few didn't actually take it. I have reached out and they have accepted. That makes it worthwhile for me to put up with the infractions, the name calling and questioning of my values. As long as God says stay, I will be here.

The problem, Bent is--when a person comes to the board and says "I already know I am wrong and I do not want to be told I am wrong" or "I just want to hear from other OWs/OM's or WS for advice" or "my husband cheated, please I need to hear from other BS" ,how is it that we disregard that? why do we not respect that? Is it because we do not respect them? or care? or do we think so highly of ourselves that we think they NEED to hear from us whether they like it or not, it IS afterall a public forum?

 

I know I have read it so many times here (and I am guilty of this too) that when a person is unwilling to hear or even engage us with our point of views, we resort to sarcasm,insults and obnoxious one-liners, etc. Why do we do that? Is it because we have gone through the pain of being betrayed and therefore feel entitled to say whatever we want to any OM/OW/WS? or maybe we do what we do because it is fun to "see" the reactions and /or it keeps the the board "hot" and interesting?

[confusedinkansas]

or maybe we do what we do because it is fun to "see" the reactions and /or it keeps the the board "hot" and interesting?

 

HEY...That's a good point too! Like writing a juicy novel or movie. Keeps things interesting, keeps us coming back to read more. To see what this one said or what that one said.

[soserious1]

I'm not clear on what it is exactly that OW/OM want from BS's? Do you want approval,what do you want us to say ? What do WS want ? to see us breaking down in tears,groveling on our hands and knees begging you to stay and saying it's all our fault that you lied and cheated?

 

You talk about BS being all or nothing in their thinking.. from where I sit it sure feels like OM/OW and WS have their own brand of all or nothing thinking going on.

 

I will say this, the BS decision to divorce a WS and to never again have anything to do with them, totally meets the needs of both OM/OW and WS, I would think that OM/OW would be giddy with pleasure at a divorce as would a WS because then they would be free to carry on with the affair partner openly.

 

I get the sense here that OW/OM and WS would like nothing better than if the BS just went away... but they want us to go away begging forgiveness and blaming ourselves for the WS infidelity..you know, don't go away mad..just go away.

[confusedinkansas]

I think that in the situation HERE in LS....We don't want finger pointing or slams. We are not the ones that hurt you. Your spouse did that.

 

But, what is good to have here - is YOUR experience. If it's too painful to share still because it's "new" then wait a while, come back, share.

 

Your side of the story - Why you made the decision you made. And, be able to do that without attacking those of us that have decided opposite of what you did. And VISA VERSA....No one should attack you for divorcing your husband.

 

My initial question here was DO THEY ALL END IN DIVORCE? Yours did/Mine didn't. Both sides of the story are interesting to hear. Without getting ugly. If you don't want to hear "My" story, then don't read it. Same as if I wasn't interested in the other side of the story, I wouldn't have posted here.....Does this make any sense?

[pkn06002]

I'm not clear on what it is exactly that OW/OM want from BS's? Do you want approval,what do you want us to say ? What do WS want ? to see us breaking down in tears,groveling on our hands and knees begging you to stay and saying it's all our fault that you lied and cheated?

 

You talk about BS being all or nothing in their thinking.. from where I sit it sure feels like OM/OW and WS have their own brand of all or nothing thinking going on.

 

I will say this, the BS decision to divorce a WS and to never again have anything to do with them, totally meets the needs of both OM/OW and WS, I would think that OM/OW would be giddy with pleasure at a divorce as would a WS because then they would be free to carry on with the affair partner openly.

 

I get the sense here that OW/OM and WS would like nothing better than if the BS just went away... but they want us to go away begging forgiveness and blaming ourselves for the WS infidelity..you know, don't go away mad..just go away.

 

Wow you sure do like to project now don't you.

 

No WS's just want to be free (in the OW/OM forum) to openly discuss their emotional issues. Without being belittled and attacked for their choices.

 

On this forum a WS can give you a view of the other side of what happened (if you care to listen) so that you can get the WHOLE picture. Since having the whole picture usually helps to make better decisions in the future.

 

For both of those to have adult discussions instead of the petty vindictive ones that you see. Notice that WS's try to keep the discussions topic related, where BS's seem to want to make it more personal. We are not each other's SO's we are strangers and should "try" to treat each other civilly.

[soserious1]

I think that in the situation HERE in LS....We don't want finger pointing or slams. We are not the ones that hurt you. Your spouse did that.

 

But, what is good to have here - is YOUR experience. If it's too painful to share still because it's "new" then wait a while, come back, share.

 

Your side of the story - Why you made the decision you made. And, be able to do that without attacking those of us that have decided opposite of what you did. And VISA VERSA....No one should attack you for divorcing your husband.

 

My initial question here was DO THEY ALL END IN DIVORCE? Yours did/Mine didn't. Both sides of the story are interesting to hear. Without getting ugly. If you don't want to hear "My" story, then don't read it. Same as if I wasn't interested in the other side of the story, I wouldn't have posted here.....Does this make any sense?

 

 

Yes it does and I'm really sorry I've been so nasty. Part of that comes from the bitterness of realizing I couldn't have saved my marriage even if I'd wanted to..my husband was repulsed by the very sight of me .Now he and OW get to be together, he gets a good chunk of my money and I get nothing.

[confusedinkansas]

I'm sorry about what happend to you - & to have it be the way it went down...... It must feel horrible. This same thing happened with my in-laws. My father-in-law was 'repulsed' by my mother-in-law...had an affair & married the woman. They are now, ALL friends. Years & Years later. So maybe someday there will be some glimmer of hope for you - to be 'friends-civil' with your ex.

 

(i did get my threads mixed up - I'm posting on 2 at a time...oops-silly brain-fart)

[Snowflower]

Haven't commented on this thread...

 

What is useful about forums like LS is the opportunity to hear and respond to other viewpoints. I mostly just read others' posts here but when I feel I have something useful to add, I post.

 

Participating in this forum has helped me A LOT as I have struggled to come to terms with my H infidelity. Several posters (both former BS and WS) have taken the time to respond when I posted my thread a couple of months ago.

 

Now I check back frequently. I even occasionally read the OW/OM forum, although it is hard to read sometimes. If the thread is too disturbing, I move on. I don't "hate" any of the posters-I ignore the ones that like to flame others and try to understand the POV of others. I know that none of the OW/AP are the ones from my situation-so I don't have any axes to grind.

 

Although I have thought that it would be really entertaining if the OW from my situation did come on here and post! LOL!!! Not sure what I would do...pretty sure I wouldn't "recognize" her either!

 

I have leaned so much on LS which has helped me in my own situation. I try to help others when I can, too.

[soserious1]

I'm sorry about what happend to you - & to have it be the way it went down...... It must feel horrible. This same thing happened with my in-laws. My father-in-law was 'repulsed' by my mother-in-law...had an affair & married the woman. They are now, ALL friends. Years & Years later. So maybe someday there will be some glimmer of hope for you - to be 'friends-civil' with your ex.

 

(i did get my threads mixed up - I'm posting on 2 at a time...oops-silly brain-fart)

 

I don't want to be "friends" with my ex and his affair partner? Why? so I could go over and clean their toilets and scrub their floors?

 

 

I'm just grappling with how to cope with the wreckage that I've been left with. OW is 100 % better than I in every single way.. I look at her pictures, her beautifully smooth face, her doe eyes,her lush mouth, her stunning busty body with her tiny waist.. then I go into the bathroom and look at my haggard reflection in the bathroom mirror.

[confusedinkansas]

I'm just grappling with how to cope with the wreckage that I've been left with. OW is 100 % better than I in every single way.. I look at her pictures, her beautifully smooth face, her doe eyes,her lush mouth, her stunning busty body with her tiny waist.. then I go into the bathroom and look at my haggard reflection in the bathroom mirror.

 

I hardly doubt you are as "haggard" as you say....AND I understand the AGE thing...........Look at it this way - SHE WILL BE OLD & HAGGARD ONE DAY TOO! Then where will Mr. Wonderful be? Back to square one - 10 years later - Cuz he's going to be 10 or so years older too!!! We all get old - It happens.

[soserious1]

I hardly doubt you are as "haggard" as you say....AND I understand the AGE thing...........Look at it this way - SHE WILL BE OLD & HAGGARD ONE DAY TOO! Then where will Mr. Wonderful be? Back to square one - 10 years later - Cuz he's going to be 10 or so years older too!!! We all get old - It happens.

 

She's 2o years younger than I, she's not going to grow haggard anytime soon.

 

You guys are right, I'm a bitter old hag who just cannot accept that her husband lucked up and got with a much better woman. I just don't know how to become warm.loving and gracious, how to accept my fate with kindness and how to reach out and embrace others.

 

How do I become a gracious and dignified elderly woman, how do I pay my alimony and smile and congratulate my ex and mean it?

[GorillaTheater]

You guys are right, I'm a bitter old hag who just cannot accept that her husband lucked up and got with a much better woman. I just don't know how to become warm.loving and gracious, how to accept my fate with kindness and how to reach out and embrace others.

 

How do I become a gracious and dignified elderly woman, how do I pay my alimony and smile and congratulate my ex and mean it?

 

I generally try to let your posts slide, but this is too much. The only person here who has EVER said such a thing about you, is you. Generally every third post. You love wallowing in self-pity. You relish the thought that "everyone" thinks you're a "bitter old hag". I find your attitude dispicable.

[soserious1]

I generally try to let your posts slide, but this is too much. The only person here who has EVER said such a thing about you, is you. Generally every third post. You love wallowing in self-pity. You relish the thought that "everyone" thinks you're a "bitter old hag". I find your attitude dispicable.

 

The facts are the facts, he's long gone and he's not coming back, he's moved in with his affair partner, a woman 20 yrs my junior. In terms of the dating game I am most assuredly every bit the old hag my ex said I was.

 

I have had exactly one date since the divorce, I initiated and paid for the entire

thing. I go thru weeks, months where I might as well be an invisible person. Nobody notices me, unless they want money or to dump some extra work on my desk.The only guys who are interested in me are either drunk and think it would be fun to bang an old cougar on a bet or they want money!

 

So, how do I once again become gracious and giving, how do I say congrats to my ex and his gorgous gal and mean it? how do I pay my alimony pleasantly and proudly?

[Reggie]

I generally try to let your posts slide, but this is too much. The only person here who has EVER said such a thing about you, is you. Generally every third post. You love wallowing in self-pity. You relish the thought that "everyone" thinks you're a "bitter old hag". I find your attitude dispicable.

 

This is just downright mean. Despicable? That is nuts, IMO.

[GorillaTheater]

The facts are the facts, he's long gone and he's not coming back, he's moved in with his affair partner, a woman 20 yrs my junior. In terms of the dating game I am most assuredly every bit the old hag my ex said I was.

 

I have had exactly one date since the divorce, I initiated and paid for the entire

thing. I go thru weeks, months where I might as well be an invisible person. Nobody notices me, unless they want money or to dump some extra work on my desk.

 

So, how do I once again become gracious and giving, how do I say congrats to my ex and his gorgous gal and mean it? how do I pay my alimony pleasantly and proudly?

 

And in November you were posting about some guy you bedded four times but broke things off with him because he was getting too serious. But I admit that appears to be an aberration. You want to be depthlessly grim? Have at it. Just don't bring your persecution complex to the board with this "You guys are right, I'm a bitter old hag". Your problem isn't being old or haggard, and I wouldn't necessarily call it bitterness. In my uneducated layman's perspective, I'd be tempted to call it narcisism.

[pkn06002]

She's 2o years younger than I, she's not going to grow haggard anytime soon.

 

You guys are right, I'm a bitter old hag who just cannot accept that her husband lucked up and got with a much better woman. I just don't know how to become warm.loving and gracious, how to accept my fate with kindness and how to reach out and embrace others.

 

How do I become a gracious and dignified elderly woman, how do I pay my alimony and smile and congratulate my ex and mean it?

 

Tell you what you sound like my mom after my parents got divorced. You know what NOW she is HAPPIER than she EVER was married to my dad.

 

She got hobbies and friends and lives life. She enjoys herself.

 

Yes it took about 2 years for her to stop being a man hating feminazi, but it passed and she it happy now.

[soserious1]

This is just downright mean. Despicable? That is nuts, IMO.

 

I don't think so.. I just think he doesn't understand how women become invisible in our society as we age. There's not much of a market for post menopausal

gals unless they've got significant assets or they're celebrities. Many of my holdings were gutted along with everybody else's in the economic downturn, having to spilt what was left and ongoing alimony, coupled with the fact that I look my age makes my options pretty much non-existant.

[GorillaTheater]

This is just downright mean. Despicable? That is nuts, IMO.

 

You could be right, it wouldn't be the first time I've been overly mean. But I don't think it's nuts; all I can do is post how this all strikes me after giving it quite a bit of thought. What's nuts is accusing posters here of painting her as "a bitter old hag" when, except for me, all I see is sympathy and support.

[pkn06002]

This is just downright mean. Despicable? That is nuts, IMO.

 

Oh wait Reggie this type of post qualifies in the BS world as a gentle 2x4 to get someone motivated, well at least when applied to a WS or OW/OM.

[Kasan]

The facts are the facts, he's long gone and he's not coming back, he's moved in with his affair partner, a woman 20 yrs my junior. In terms of the dating game I am most assuredly every bit the old hag my ex said I was.

 

I have had exactly one date since the divorce, I initiated and paid for the entire

thing. I go thru weeks, months where I might as well be an invisible person. Nobody notices me, unless they want money or to dump some extra work on my desk.The only guys who are interested in me are either drunk and think it would be fun to bang an old cougar on a bet or they want money!

 

So, how do I once again become gracious and giving, how do I say congrats to my ex and his gorgous gal and mean it? how do I pay my alimony pleasantly and proudly?

 

Maybe you will never be able to say congrats to your ex and his gorgeous gal and mean it. Who says you have too?

 

You will attract what you are, which unfortunately right now is anger and bitterness.

 

I wonder about the vibes you give off in real life? I know the vibes that I get from just reading your posts.

 

Grieve the loss of your marriage, and the man who wasn't what you thought he was. Grieve the loss of your illusions, but please don't let yourself become a martyr to your failed marriage. You aren't the only one who has had to start from square one, nor do I imagine you will be the last.

 

My hope for you is that you will wake up some morning and be grateful that you are rid of the SOB!

[pkn06002]

I don't think so.. I just think he doesn't understand how women become invisible in our society as we age. There's not much of a market for post menopausal

gals unless they've got significant assets or they're celebrities. Many of my holdings were gutted along with everybody else's in the economic downturn, having to spilt what was left and ongoing alimony, coupled with the fact that I look my age makes my options pretty much non-existant.

 

TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

 

My mom who is 63 has a more active social life than me or my sister. She goes out EVERY weekend and several times during the week.

 

Guess what she is SINGLE and goes through guys like old socks. You know what else she is not a looker (used to be but she is 63).

 

So you need to stop with the self pity I saw my mom go through this and it was destructive. She found singles groups and hobbies and everything else is history.