wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Hello again We had a good 3 hour talk last night about cheating. I told her that i need her to understand what she done was cheating but she still holds fast on her belief. If you didnt read my last post here is a quick update. I caught her acting funny so i put a keylogger on her pc and discovered her telling some guy she loves him and discovered she has a private email address set up to chat with him. This happened 6 months ago and we are now separated. We have been seeing each other for the last month and its going ok but not great. On my part im am having a hard time getting past her saying she didnt cheat on me in the first place. She leaves my house and then sends me an email that i wasnt prepared for. Heres the email. " first off i want to say i am sorry for everything i have put you through... it looks like i deleted the email i had ready to send to you probably when i was pissed at you.. and you probably would not have believed what was in it anyway... but i'm going to go ahead and put what i can remember of that email into this one.. the guy i was talking to was a liar from the start... my friend in the game lauretta and i were setting him up, she and i really dont speak anymore but i'm sure if i can find her she will tell you everything... he was stringing at least 10 women along on as to how he was going to take care of them if they would just move down there with him and all kinds of different bull****... last i heard he was finally ran off the server....but anyway for the most part i really didnt know this guy... but he and lauretta were friends before i met either one of them.. i joined a guild they were running together and we all started talking and doing quests together...i did tell him i loved him but it really never meant anything.. it was to take screen shots snd send to all of the poor girls he was stringing along... if he got mad at one of his girlfriends he would try to cause all kinds of trouble for them in real life... one girl he got mad at he started calling he husbands work and tried to get him fired... he would tell all these girls how he was going to take care of them... when he cant even take care of himself..he would tell everyone that he was 38 but he is really 48 that he gets a pension from the army... which is a lie..his mommy supports him.. he stole her credit card to buy WOW but now she keeps it up for him every month just so he is not mean to her.. he is an alcolholic... i argued with him more than i ever thought of arguing with you.... i swear to you i have never even seen a pic of this guy and i really never wanted to.. i cared nothing for him.. but there is no sense in telling you this now.. it does not matter and i never told you then either because i had already hurt you so bad and i knew it would only make matters worse... i'm sure you are not going to believe a word of this now and i guess i dont blame you.. but it is the truth... you know i'm not sure how things are going to go with us,especially after tonight, but i do want you to know that i have always loved you.. bu i can't do the relationship thing if you are wanting it to be an open one... andi still don't think that i can say that i cheated... i know and understand that that is the way you see it..and i understand if you don't want to try and work it out anymore cause thats the way it seems to me.. it's like you want me out of your life again.. and i understand. i know what i have done was wrong i fully admit that... if nothing else i should have told you what was going on.. anyway i am going to go ahead and end this email and go take a hot bath,and go to bed.." Ok, after reading this my gut reaction is BULL****! She has a history of cheating on me and lieing to get out of situation of confrontation with me. I ask myself why didnt she say this from the get go? Why did her behavour change before i caught her? (changed the same way it did when she cheated on me before) Why didnt she fight hard to get me to believe this? Why did she act guilty when caught? Why did she fess up to it? I ask you the community......is this a lie intended to cover her ass and make me feel bad about leaving her? Is this an attempt to side step my insistance that what she done was cheating? I pretty much know already but i do need more opinions on this. Thanks
Owl Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Here's a thread you might wanna check out...see how similar this might sound to your story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/ What she had was an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. Google it. It's NO LESS infidelity than if she'd showed up and shaboinked him...and if you read my thread, that may well have happened had you not caught it. Marriage counseling...INSIST on it. And I'd heartily suggest that you make sure that it's a counselor who understands what an emotional affair is, and has a good gameplan to help you work through it. You might consider moving this thread over to the "infidelity section" of this site...contact a moderator to help with that. Read my story...and ask any questions you'd like. For what it's worth...my marriage survived and we're doing GREAT now. But it took a lot of hard work for us to get there.
quankanne Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 She has a history of cheating on me and lying to get out of situation of confrontation I think you know what the answer to your question is ... now you need to ask yourself is it really and truly worth being with someone who has no remorse (or conscience) about lying to you just to cover her azz when she's in trouble? To forgive is divine; to be duped over and over is dumb, IMO. if she cannot see your point that a good, healthy relationship means trust and communication ~ not lying, not having "other" ideas about what's cool when you feel differently, etc ~ then this obviously is not someone you need to be yoked with/to.
GorillaTheater Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 you know i'm not sure how things are going to go with us,especially after tonight, but i do want you to know that i have always loved you.. bu i can't do the relationship thing if you are wanting it to be an open one... andi still don't think that i can say that i cheated... Well, first off what she did was most definitely cheating. The fact she understands it was wrong is helpful, but she needs to see the truth of the matter if there's much of a chance for you two to work through it. I'm assuming you want to, though that's not clear. But what's this reference to an "open" relationship? Does that merely refer to one where the parties are open (emotionally, verbally) with each other, or does it refer to an "open marriage" as in "seeing" others? If she doesn't want the former, then it's over for the two of you. But is it the latter?
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Here's a thread you might wanna check out...see how similar this might sound to your story: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t49539/ What she had was an EMOTIONAL AFFAIR. Google it. It's NO LESS infidelity than if she'd showed up and shaboinked him...and if you read my thread, that may well have happened had you not caught it. Marriage counseling...INSIST on it. And I'd heartily suggest that you make sure that it's a counselor who understands what an emotional affair is, and has a good gameplan to help you work through it. You might consider moving this thread over to the "infidelity section" of this site...contact a moderator to help with that. Read my story...and ask any questions you'd like. For what it's worth...my marriage survived and we're doing GREAT now. But it took a lot of hard work for us to get there. Owl Thanks for your reply. Our situations are indeed very similar! One exception to this is when she actually boarded a plane and left me for another man 9 years ago and took my son with her. Traumatic to say the least. I did google what the definition of an affair is and posted it on another post i made here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2160027#post2160027 We tried counseling but it didnt work out very well. We looked in the phone book and found free religious help and tried that. 90% of the time in sessions the counselor talked about god and Jesus but neglected to focus on us. We cannot afford true counseling. Basically all we done was argue in front of the revered/minister/priest or whatever followed by him preaching at us. It didnt solve anything.
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Well, first off what she did was most definitely cheating. The fact she understands it was wrong is helpful, but she needs to see the truth of the matter if there's much of a chance for you two to work through it. I'm assuming you want to, though that's not clear. But what's this reference to an "open" relationship? Does that merely refer to one where the parties are open (emotionally, verbally) with each other, or does it refer to an "open marriage" as in "seeing" others? If she doesn't want the former, then it's over for the two of you. But is it the latter? At times i really do want to work things out but as of late we are growing apart again. The "open relationship" you read here was a reference to something i said during us talking last night. I said, you obviously cant keep our relationship monogamous....so is an open relationship what your looking for? This pissed her off and she threw it back in my face in the email. Truth is whenever something goes wrong in our relationship she cheats and lies. I have asked her over and over again.... Where is your conscience during and before you cheat on me and she cannot answer that. I thought she would have learned her lesson 9 years ago when i was forced to file for divorce because she was halfway across country with my son in a strange mans house she met on the net. thoughts?
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 What i need to know is...is this email just another lie to add to the list?
Owl Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Owl Thanks for your reply. Our situations are indeed very similar! One exception to this is when she actually boarded a plane and left me for another man 9 years ago and took my son with her. Traumatic to say the least. I did google what the definition of an affair is and posted it on another post i made here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2160027#post2160027 We tried counseling but it didnt work out very well. We looked in the phone book and found free religious help and tried that. 90% of the time in sessions the counselor talked about god and Jesus but neglected to focus on us. We cannot afford true counseling. Basically all we done was argue in front of the revered/minister/priest or whatever followed by him preaching at us. It didnt solve anything. This tells me one thing that is a MAJOR factor here... Your wife is a serial cheater. She's done this more than once now. One time might be poor judgement. Twice is an indication of her character. I'm a very "save the marriage" kind of guy...but I do not recommend this route for people when dealing with a serial cheater. From my perspective...honestly...you'd be far better off filing for divorce and cutting your losses. She will never "get it". If you can't accept her behavior (and I am not suggesting you should)...then its time to divorce. It's that simple...not easy...but simple. She's not going to accept responsibility for her actions. She's not going to change. Had my wife done this a second time...we'd be divorced today.
Owl Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 What i need to know is...is this email just another lie to add to the list? What does it matter? It won't change anything. She was engaged in her second emotional affair, and he was her affair partner.
GorillaTheater Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Unlike many if not most on this board, I haven't been in your shoes, so all I can tell you is what I'd do: file for divorce and this time, follow through with it. I know these things are vastly more complicated than can be expressed in a forum posting, but all I can assume is that she has no concept of appropriate boundaries in a marriage, and I would expect for the past to repeat time and time again. You have to chart your own course through this mess, but if it was me I'd accept the pain of divorce over the pain she'd probably continue to inflict on me in the future.
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 What does it matter? It won't change anything. She was engaged in her second emotional affair, and he was her affair partner. I see your point and this was my thought pattern when i left her.
Owl Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I would tell her point blank that you don't believe her email one little bit. There's no shred of reason for you to do so, but every bit of "proof" for you not to. It wasn't just her "I love you"...but all of the other indicators that you had that LED you to install a keylogger in the first place. The emotional distance, etc...all of which you knew as a symptom of cheating from the FIRST time she did this. Tell her point blank that you know that she's lying about this in order to try convince you otherwise...but that lies won't lead the two of you to come back together. The only thing that COULD lead to this would be complete and total honesty...and accepting responsibility for her choices and actions. You mention being seperated for six months...what's the "goal" here? When my wife and I went through this, we discussed seperation...but when I realized that she meant for it to last sometime, I told her that I wouldn't wait on her that long...if she wanted to seperate, I would file for divorce. What has she been doing this last six months? Has she made any changes at all in her behaviors to "prove" to you that she's now trustworthy? First step would be to end ANY kind of online interaction with other men...in any fashion. MMORPG's, IM's, email, whatever...
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 I would tell her point blank that you don't believe her email one little bit. There's no shred of reason for you to do so, but every bit of "proof" for you not to. It wasn't just her "I love you"...but all of the other indicators that you had that LED you to install a keylogger in the first place. The emotional distance, etc...all of which you knew as a symptom of cheating from the FIRST time she did this. Tell her point blank that you know that she's lying about this in order to try convince you otherwise...but that lies won't lead the two of you to come back together. The only thing that COULD lead to this would be complete and total honesty...and accepting responsibility for her choices and actions. You mention being seperated for six months...what's the "goal" here? When my wife and I went through this, we discussed seperation...but when I realized that she meant for it to last sometime, I told her that I wouldn't wait on her that long...if she wanted to seperate, I would file for divorce. What has she been doing this last six months? Has she made any changes at all in her behaviors to "prove" to you that she's now trustworthy? First step would be to end ANY kind of online interaction with other men...in any fashion. MMORPG's, IM's, email, whatever... i told her this morning pretty much what you said and she got defensive and hung up on me several times. now we are talking dissolution again and she even threatened divorce. the point of me leaving her was punishment and me getting on with the rest of my life but i do still love her. with that being said i dont want to be in this situation with her anymore because she will not learn. she is being very emotional right now and not hearing anything i say which is a normal reaction for her. she has done nothing in the past six months to indicate she has learned or even cares beyond the point of getting back with me for comfort reasons. she doesnt think she cheated on me therefore she will not go the extra mile to make up for her actions or even try to build trust again. she views this situation as a compitition with me. from where i stand she sees this situation as her, her, her. how i broke her heart by leaving her, how i am wrong to be furious at her for this mess, how mean i have been to her during the separation, how she is not accountable for her actions and lies. if you would ask her i am the bad guy in this. funny thing is. during our marriage we never fight, argue or do anything more but have sex and do things together. thats not healthy and i knew this for some time but i thought it was healthier than fighting all the time for the sake of our son. i was willing to stay in the marriage for our sons sake (i know thats wrong) provided she treated me well but she couldnt. she was upset that our relationship was going sour so she cheats on me and in her words "to get some kind of emotion out of me." she says she wanted me to catch her....knowing full well that i would leave her but she denies that fact even though i told her the next time would be the last. i understand that she cannot deal with a relationship problem so she does whatever she wants. she has no communication skills whatsoever. when we talk its me doing all the talking and maybe i can drag the real issue out of her but not always. she is not one to openly tell me how she feels so its extra hard on me. instead she bottles up her problems and lets them loose in a thermoneuclear explosion on my head. the more i talk to you owl the more i understand that there is no hope for change with her. im starting to understand that the 14 years i hae known her has been a waiste of time with the exception of my son. i see that she cannot ever be trusted nor will she ever change for the better. i have often spoken with her about changing certain personality traits to make oneself a better person and she buys into it but doesnt impliment it. i cannot do anything more here. i guess its truely over and i accept that.
Owl Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Sorry to be the guy to show that to you, my friend. My marriage survived a similar occurrence, but only because we had years of wonderful marriage to act as a foundation to rebuild from. She DID come to regret what she did. Your wife MIGHT reach that point...but given a history of refusing to accept responsibility and having cheated on you before...I doubt it. My suggestion would be to go completely NC with her, except for anything to do with your son. That means stop taking her calls, stop communicating with her about ANYTHING other than what you HAVE to in order to care for him. Any other communications can go through your lawyer.
Athena Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 " first off i want to say i am sorry for everything i have put you through... it looks like i deleted the email i had ready to send to you probably when i was pissed at you.. and you probably would not have believed what was in it anyway... but i'm going to go ahead and put what i can remember of that email into this one.. ... i joined a guild they were running together and we all started talking and doing quests together...i did tell him i loved him but it really never meant anything.. it was to take screen shots snd send to all of the poor girls he was stringing along... if he got mad at one of his girlfriends he would try to cause all kinds of trouble for them in real life... one girl he got mad at he started calling he husbands work and tried to get him fired... i swear to you i have never even seen a pic of this guy and i really never wanted to.. i cared nothing for him.. but there is no sense in telling you this now.. it does not matter and i never told you then either because i had already hurt you so bad and i knew it would only make matters worse... i'm sure you are not going to believe a word of this now and i guess i dont blame you.. but it is the truth... i know what i have done was wrong i fully admit that... if nothing else i should have told you what was going on.. anyway i am going to go ahead and end this email and go take a hot bath,and go to bed.." I ask you the community......is this a lie intended to cover her ass and make me feel bad about leaving her? Thanks LIES all LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blatant and Obvious Lies! Ha ha ha... I am pretty certain of this just by the way she phrased things...
Athena Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I ask you the community......is this a lie intended to cover her ass and make me feel bad about leaving her? Is this an attempt to side step my insistance that what she done was cheating? She's attempting to convince you, by confusing you... she thinks if she sticks to her guns you will falter... do not buy into her lies! She's lying to sidestep the consequences of her earlier lies and actions. I don't think she's trying to make you feel bad -- she's just trying to get you to question Reality sufficiently enough to put enough doubt in your mind, to Give her the Benefit of the Doubt! Don't!
Athena Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 At times i really do want to work things out but as of late we are growing apart again. The "open relationship" you read here was a reference to something i said during us talking last night. I said, you obviously cant keep our relationship monogamous....so is an open relationship what your looking for? This pissed her off and she threw it back in my face in the email. Truth is whenever something goes wrong in our relationship she cheats and lies. I have asked her over and over again.... Where is your conscience during and before you cheat on me and she cannot answer that. I thought she would have learned her lesson 9 years ago when i was forced to file for divorce because she was halfway across country with my son in a strange mans house she met on the net. thoughts? OMGosh she sounds So Much Like My H!! He simply has one affair after another. Last night I spoke to him and asked him what he was thinking before he embarked on his latest affair, and didn't he even think of me, of our M? He said he did, but he decided he wouldn't ever tell me about it! He thought that the Problem all the other times with his affairs was he always landed up admitting them to me (after I found him out... and asked him questions and remembered his every answer and asked again, and I then would point out all the inconsistencies and 'holes' in his 'stories' until after several months he'd give up and admit every damn thing :lmao: -- persistence is the key) Also -- I have also pointed out to him that he cannot be monogamous (in both his marriages) so asked him about an Open Marriage? He absolutely did not want to know about that! The thing that cracked me up last night is that he admitted that now the prospect of his having Affairs has 'no fun' since I am going to divorce him! Poor baby! I am spoiling his fun!!!
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 OMGosh she sounds So Much Like My H!! He simply has one affair after another. Last night I spoke to him and asked him what he was thinking before he embarked on his latest affair, and didn't he even think of me, of our M? He said he did, but he decided he wouldn't ever tell me about it! He thought that the Problem all the other times with his affairs was he always landed up admitting them to me (after I found him out... and asked him questions and remembered his every answer and asked again, and I then would point out all the inconsistencies and 'holes' in his 'stories' until after several months he'd give up and admit every damn thing :lmao: -- persistence is the key) Also -- I have also pointed out to him that he cannot be monogamous (in both his marriages) so asked him about an Open Marriage? He absolutely did not want to know about that! The thing that cracked me up last night is that he admitted that now the prospect of his having Affairs has 'no fun' since I am going to divorce him! Poor baby! I am spoiling his fun!!! i shouldn't laugh but i admit i did. when you said your spoiled his fun i cracked up. i needed a good laugh. sounds like you have it pretty bad as well.
Athena Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 i shouldn't laugh but i admit i did. when you said your spoiled his fun i cracked up. i needed a good laugh. sounds like you have it pretty bad as well. Lol, glad that made you laugh! So -- tell me, how does one know if there is a keylogger on one's computer? I certainly don't want H to come home in two weeks time and be reading my posts here on LS! His ego will be wounded :laugh:
Author wtfshock Posted May 4, 2009 Author Posted May 4, 2009 Sorry to be the guy to show that to you, my friend. My marriage survived a similar occurrence, but only because we had years of wonderful marriage to act as a foundation to rebuild from. She DID come to regret what she did. Your wife MIGHT reach that point...but given a history of refusing to accept responsibility and having cheated on you before...I doubt it. My suggestion would be to go completely NC with her, except for anything to do with your son. That means stop taking her calls, stop communicating with her about ANYTHING other than what you HAVE to in order to care for him. Any other communications can go through your lawyer. i think your right about the NC thing. i dont have a lawyer nor can i afford one. i do not qualify for legal aid either. i made 4 grand over the poverty limit last year and that was a fluke. i want to dissolve this and so far she agrees but she will hold the fact that she has already filed for divorce against me once and filed for everything knowing i couldnt afford to fight her. my family will not get in the middle of this and throw money at me like hers does. we got back together and she agreed to cancel the divorce in favor of a dissolution is case we couldnt work it out. she filed against me cause we were fighting over petty BS. her atty went for the throat. she filed for full custody and allamoney and everything that goes with it. since we were trying to work things out i talked her down and out of it but that wasnt my intentions. i seriously wanted to work things out but if she cant get over her self how can i forgive and trust again?
Author wtfshock Posted May 5, 2009 Author Posted May 5, 2009 Lol, glad that made you laugh! So -- tell me, how does one know if there is a keylogger on one's computer? I certainly don't want H to come home in two weeks time and be reading my posts here on LS! His ego will be wounded :laugh: several way one can find that out. easiest way is to look in add and remove programs in the control panel. one can ctrl alt del and see the running process. some scanners will pick them up as well. and some crappy ones will show up in the start menu. one could also check msconfig for them. there is a program called glary until which has a program in it that covers your tracks. dunno how will that will work though. i will try to get a better answer for you but for right now i need to go out and get my mind off this. i do want to thank everyone here for being wonderful and understanding. all the advice you gave was exactly what my gut reaction was and it just helps my resolve. i thank you all and keep the advice coming!
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