Fall in love by chance- Fall out of love by choice.

[Owl]

Good questions, Taylor.

 

I'll give a couple of true examples from my life to show you what I mean.

 

Today, I work for a fortune 500 company. And the kind of work I do has me interacting with a lot of people, sometimes for many hours/day for a long period of time. There was one young lady a couple of years ago that I found very attractive. We were working projects together, so were spending a lot of time in each other's company.

 

In this case, I don't know that the attraction was mutual, because I very deliberately took a work only attitude with her from the first day. The ONLY conversation I'd engage in with her was work related. NOTHING personal of any kind...no talk about family, friends, hobbies, outside life, etc... I'm sure she felt I was a "cold fish"...but I'd much rather someone have that impression of me than risk my marriage. After a couple of months, our projects completed and there was no need to continue interaction.

 

In another case, many years ago, I had a very, very attractive young lady who worked for me. She always tried to be "one of the guys", and so she'd often participate in very "guy" conversations around the shop. She actually approached me at one point while we were off-duty and made her feelings and desires very clear. She knew I was married, but frankly didn't care and was interested in pursuing things with me since my family was still not where we were stationed. She basically confessed that she was "in love" with me.

 

I told her point blank that it wouldn't happen. I wasn't mean, but I didn't give an inch, nor did I want her to keep trying to push this. I made it clear that I would NOT be anything more than her boss, and left it at that. Things were a little akward around the shop for a few days while she was waiting for some kind of work repercussion because of this, but once she realized I wasn't going to treat her any differently, she quickly got over it. Nothing was ever said about her approaching me again, nor did she ever again try to talk to me about her "feelings". She married another guy in the unit about a year later...LOL!

 

The trick is...FIRM boundaries. And not being afraid to establish them...sometimes forcefully if the person doesn't "get it" the first time.

 

Does this all make sense to you.

[taylor]

Yes, OWL, it all makes sense to me.

 

I have always been very good at setting boundaries with guys who have hit on me...especially ones I'm not attracted to. I have had to do this quite often..not because I am some "Hot Chick", but because I am very social, friendly, and personable...and that often gets misinterpreted as more.

 

But I haven't had to deal with setting boundaries with men when there has been a mutual attraction. Mainly because in all the years I have been married I have not been attracted to any other man except my husband. Not one..until the OM.

 

I still don't know if I was simply attracted to him because at the time my marriage and my husband were so UNattractive to me...or if it was because I quickly saw characteristics in the OM that were so similar to my husband. He reminded me so much of my husband when my husband and I first met...also at the workplace.

 

Anyways, in the case of the OM, my attraction to him grew from day one as he gushed ON THE FIRST DAY all about his personal life...all the trials and tribulations and all the emotions that followed. I left work the first day feeling like this man beared his soul to me. I certainly wasn't expecting that.

 

I am the kind of person who warms up to people very easily and vice-versa. I can establish a connection almost immediately. People, like the OM, often find me easy to talk to. He said it was one of the things he liked best about me..he could talk to me like no one else.

 

So I guess my personal challenge is to become one of those "COLD FISH" you describe. And that is a challenge because I am just not wired that way.

 

My husband is though. He can meet 10 people and have a 30 second conversation with each one and move on perfectly satisfied with the level of connection. I, on the other hand, will end up in hour long discussions with the same 10 people and walk away from them with plans to get together again soon.

 

It's just the difference in how we relate to people as we walk thru life.

 

So how do you shut someone down who wants to share with you their life story..and wants you to do the same?

 

What do you do with someone who feels at ease telling you things they wouldn't tell their best guy friends or their mother? Someone who says they are so glad they have someone like you to talk to because they feel so alone in the world because everyone has turned their back on them or let them down...

 

The OM sucked me in emotionally in a matter of a couple DAYS. I KNOW. I let him do it.

 

It's hard for me to be a cold fish. I am the kind of person who is always reaching out to others...taking time to listen to others. It never caused a problem in the past.

 

But this time, when I reached out, I got reeled in...because of the mutual attraction.

 

My husband has always teased me, saying, "You wear this neon sign on your forehead that says TALK TO ME.

 

He admits that this is what first attracted him to me. I guess it's what also attracted the OM.

[Owl]

You sound a lot like how my wife was for many years prior to her affair.

 

You both have the same outlook, and intrinsic trust in others. And neither of you want to offend anyone, so often you're afraid to enforce a solid boundary because you're worried about offending them if you do.

 

The trick is to set the boundary out there immediately, and enforce it the very very first time it's crossed.

 

When he first started gushing about his personal life, you could have looked at him and simply said. "Can we focus on the work we need to get done here, please?".

 

And you can try to PICK the people that you'll have conversation with, rather than let it be determined by them. For example, only engage in in depth personal conversations with other women, rather than men. Far less risk that way. You can have a different boundary for women vs men, as long as you don't typically find yourself emotionally/physically attracted to them in that fashion.

 

I've have several guys I'd consider "friends". I'd consider all the ladies that I know as "acquaintances". I have a different boundary with them than I do with the men. I don't grow any relationships closer than "acquaintance" with women...deliberately.

 

If you learn to WATCH for the risks...enforcing the boundaries becomes second nature...effortless.

 

But you first need to realize that there is a reason to have those boundaries in the first place. You never needed/understood them before all of this, did you? My wife didn't. Now you understand them, and the need for them, but you're struggling with how to implement and maintain them. You need to recognize the risk first...then enforce the boundary to minimize the risk. With time and practice it gets easier.

[angie2443]

When he first started gushing about his personal life, you could have looked at him and simply said. "Can we focus on the work we need to get done here, please?".

 

You could also say "that's TMI for me" or "I don't want to get involved" or politely ignore the guy when he starts spilling out personal information. I've done this many times. The guys usually respect this and leave you alone.

[taylor]

But you first need to realize that there is a reason to have those boundaries in the first place. You never needed/understood them before all of this, did you? My wife didn't. Now you understand them, and the need for them, but you're struggling with how to implement and maintain them. You need to recognize the risk first...then enforce the boundary to minimize the risk. With time and practice it gets easier.

 

This is VERY true, OWL. Didn't really feel a need for boundaries such as this. No one ever really tried to cross the ones I had set until the OM came along. I truly didn't see the danger until he had me totally engaged.

 

And at that point, it became even more of a stuggle to keep boundaries in place. I kept moving them and they kept blurring.

 

It's funny, a male coworker of mine who knew of the EA said post D-day:

 

He was grooming you for a sexual encounter from day one and you didn't even know it. He knew you were the kind of person who doesn't like to hurt anyone's feelings. He felt he could get close to you and you would be too nice to stop him.

 

I didn't understand what he meant by this for a long time. Too much FOG. I understand now. But of course, I do not blame the OM. He apparently saw an opportunity..an easy target of sorts. It still hurts to think his main goal was sex and that he may have taken deliberate steps to draw me in emotionally to get that. I choose to think he had some feelings as well.

 

But regardless, it WAS my responsibility to stop him by maintaining strong and proper boundaries.

 

A hard lesson learned.

[taylor]

You could also say "that's TMI for me" or "I don't want to get involved" or politely ignore the guy when he starts spilling out personal information. I've done this many times. The guys usually respect this and leave you alone.

 

You know what was funny, Angie, is I was the only female working at this place with 11 other men...although the boss was also female.

 

All of the men, except one, was divorced and eager to share their stories. Needless to say I got alot of attention.

 

I like the tips you offer above, but had I used them on every guy that I worked with there, it would have been a very long and lonely work day!

 

Also, if I might add, with regard to your tips, I think they would be very effective at keeping men at bay. BUT it's all up to the woman to speak those words...Hard to do when you are already attracted to him and WANT to know more because you are intrigued. And therein lies the challenge.

[Owl]

 

Also, if I might add, with regard to your tips, I think they would be very effective at keeping men at bay. BUT it's all up to the woman to speak those words...Hard to do when you are already attracted to him and WANT to know more because you are intrigued. And therein lies the challenge.

 

Here's the thing...because you were intrigued...because you wanted to know more...that was all the MORE reason to speak those words.

 

That's part of MY litmus test to know whether or not I need to "make a point"...if I'M interested, I darned sure have to set the hard boundary up front, before that attraction grows.

 

That's the new mindset you have to develop.

[angie2443]

I like the tips you offer above, but had I used them on every guy that I worked with there, it would have been a very long and lonely work day!

.

 

I disagree to an extent. There are so many things to talk about! I don't know what your interest are, but I have enough to where I can have enjoyable conversations with people without getting too personal. I think most people do. I'm sure you do to. I think the tricky part is, if you are a bit attracted to someone, then you are more likely to want to get personal with them. You are more likely to want to share personal information with them and here personal information from them.

[taylor]

Here's the thing...because you were intrigued...because you wanted to know more...that was all the MORE reason to speak those words.

 

That's part of MY litmus test to know whether or not I need to "make a point"...if I'M interested, I darned sure have to set the hard boundary up front, before that attraction grows.

 

That's the new mindset you have to develop.

 

Yes, OWL, working on that new mindset as we speak.

 

Never had to worry before about ME being interested...only about the guy being interested. Like I said, this was the first time since I got married that it was ME interested in the guy.

 

I failed miserably.

 

Again, if I may add, and this in no way is meant to be an excuse, just the reality...

 

But when you are in a troubled marriage and you aren't happy, it's very hard to turn away from or push someone away who does come along..is attractive, engaging and intriguing. Without the vulnerability, the challenge may not have been as difficult.

 

I know what you are going to say, OWL....VULNERABILITY...all the MORE reason for those boundaries. I got it.

 

(I think I'm starting to talk to myself now. YIKES)

[Owl]

I think the tricky part is, if you are a bit attracted to someone, then you are more likely to want to get personal with them. You are more likely to want to share personal information with them and here personal information from them.

 

And it's when you realize that this statement describes the situation you're in, it's all the more reason to establish those boundaries even firmer!!!!!

[Owl]

(I think I'm starting to talk to myself now. YIKES)

 

Don't let it bother you. Sometimes, its the only conversation you can have in which you're garaunteed an intelligent response!

 

[angie2443]

But when you are in a troubled marriage and you aren't happy, it's very hard to turn away from or push someone away who does come along..is attractive, engaging and intriguing. Without the vulnerability, the challenge may not have been as difficult.

 

This makes sense. It's not a good thing for the marriage, but I can see where a lot of people fall into this trap. When our marriage hit a rough spot, I did end up turning towards my husband as opposed to someone else. It was hard, though. In order to turn towards my husband and work things out, I had to grow a back bone. I had to make changes in myself that I was unconfortable with. I had to go out of my confort zone and give up certain things to make the marriage work. He did too. Those times were very hard. It would have been easiar (and more fun) to turn towards someone else. I'm sure it would have destroyed our marriage. Still, I understand the temptation.

[taylor]

I disagree to an extent. There are so many things to talk about! I don't know what your interest are, but I have enough to where I can have enjoyable conversations with people without getting too personal. I think most people do. I'm sure you do to. I think the tricky part is, if you are a bit attracted to someone, then you are more likely to want to get personal with them. You are more likely to want to share personal information with them and here personal information from them.

 

Would you be surprised to know that there was not one single discussion about my marriage? The OM didn't even know my husband's name and he certainly knew nothing of the marriage. It never came up in conversation.

 

I, of course, knew EVERYTHING about his personal life...even the kind of sex he liked.

 

But most of our conversations were not what I would call PERSONAL.

 

What drew me closer to him were normal everyday conversations that to me were innocent in nature.

 

We talked music. We had very similar tastes.

 

We talked about our philosophies about money, raising children.

 

We talked physical fitness. Another thing we had in common and are both passionate about. As well as doing outdoor things..biking and hiking and camping. More passions in common.

 

We talked about our vacations and travel..about cooking..about movies and TV shows...again...very similar tastes.

 

Our senses of humor meshed well. The two of us could get the rest of the guys howling.

 

It's these kinds of innocent conversations that made the feelings...and the connection grow...as we worked side by side all day long every day.

 

That's why I asked..how do you work next to someone and not develop a connection..

 

 

FWIW, I had similar conversations with the other men I worked with but we didn't see eye to eye on many things like the OM and I did...and of course there was no physical attraction with any of them. Things were cordial and friendly, but things didn't CLICK.

[HappyAtLast]

Here's the secret...don't get emotionally or physically intimate with ANYONE that you don't want to risk falling in love with.

 

It's that simple.

 

I can't tell you what made "this" time different for you...but I can tell you that had you never allowed him to get that close to you in the first place...you never would have fallen in love with him.

 

As a married man...in a committed relationship...I simply do not allow myself ANY leeway in my interactions with any woman who isn't my wife...and that goes even moreso for ones that I find myself in any fashion attracted to.

 

That is the way that I have conducted myself in my 40 years of marriage and have never even come close to any sort of improper relationships.

[angie2443]

Anyways, in the case of the OM, my attraction to him grew from day one as he gushed ON THE FIRST DAY all about his personal life...all the trials and tribulations and all the emotions that followed. I left work the first day feeling like this man beared his soul to me. I certainly wasn't expecting that.

 

Taylor, in response to your question if it suprised me that you didn't talk much about your marriage to your OM, it doesn't suprise me because of what you've said right here. The personal connection was established from the beginning by this man bearring his soul to you and you listening to him. IMO, by his actions he told you he wanted you in his life and by listening, you told him you were fine with this. It's funny. I used to do this (bear my soul) when I was younger to get closer to people. If the people you do this with want to get closer to you, then it works.

[taylor]

Taylor, in response to your question if it suprised me that you didn't talk much about your marriage to your OM, it doesn't suprise me because of what you've said right here. The personal connection was established from the beginning by this man bearring his soul to you and you listening to him. IMO, by his actions he told you he wanted you in his life and by listening, you told him you were fine with this. It's funny. I used to do this (bear my soul) when I was younger to get closer to people. If the people you do this with want to get closer to you, then it works.

 

The sad thing is, Angie, when he beared his soul like this, I felt flattered by it...that he thought that highly of me and that trusting of me to share that kind of information with me. And he continued to do so for months, feeding my sense of self-worth.

 

It never hit me to view this as a type of RISK. No alarm bells went off at all.

 

Again, a very hard lesson learned.

 

I wish I had had the wisdom and the strength to do what you did when you hit a rough spot in your marriage. I vividly recall approaching my husband in the garage, telling him our marriage was in trouble and that I wanted to go to counseling because I was afraid we were going to lose it.

 

He said I was exaggerating the problems and being melodramatic about it all. I dropped the subject and never brought it up again. I thought something was wrong with ME because I wasn't happy and because he appeared to be happy. Three years later I had the EA. By then, every aspect of our marriage had hit rock bottom. When I look back on it all now, it was like sitting back and watching a freighter run aground.

 

I know now, the problems for my unhappiness did stem from me..something within me...not my marriage or my husband. I was trying to fix the wrong thing. It wasn't MC, but IC, that I needed 3 years ago. I just didn't know it. And neither did he.

[joyz]

 

You can learn to love and bond with a person, but you can't really choose to fall 'in' or 'out' of love. It either happens or it doesn't.

 

Now, that said - we can make choices that might hasten or kill that process.

 

 

i completely agree w you. you can learn to love anyone even a pet. but being "in" love w someone, it either happens or not.

 

to have a happy relationship, among other things, u need someone of equal intellect and w similar emotional needs.