Is it difficult to be a vegetarian?

[cindy0039]

Originally posted by ~Heidi~

You say:Is it difficult to be a vegetarian?

 

I feel: This all depends on how much effort you in fact want to emark upon. Are you seriously in the mode of converting your diet into such aquirances? Or do you still feel the desire to have that piece of meat or just a small dish of icecream (depending on the make of course). If you answered yes to both ++ many others than you are on the right track. However, if you answered no to either, or are still in incognito of the actuality of your own body, than you should still do more contemplation of what's best for you.

 

GOOD LUCK!!!

 

Huh?? <scratching head>

[slowbrain]

First, to pick up on this tread quite a wayyyy back. Not wishing to kill, or otherwise harm animals, is a good thing. But all complex living things are made from millions of cells. Each cell has a comparatively short life span. We have about 30 trillion cells ( 20 trillion if you don't count the fat ones!). They all die. In our sleep, while we are awake and mostly whilst we are in the womb. Most cells die that others can be born. To make a human takes an uncomfortable amount of deliberate cell death (apoptosis). Hmm, I guess I have thoughts on death and our worries about the process that probably need another thread.

 

 

Sooo, do not get concerned about the death thing. Our cells don't. It is just this higher entity called mind that gets in a twist.

 

 

Vegetarian good for you. You bet.

 

Our immune systems prefer a bit of action but not too much. For example eating red meat all the time places a stress on the immune system that carries a risk. The immune system samples and reacts to the food. That reaction is more complex, and errors potentially more damaging, if the food is similar to your bodies makeup in certain ways. It would seem that red meats, and a few other food types, do have some chemical? or electric? properties that might lead to errors in the process of immunity. A lot of mights, but the statistical evidence seems reasonably sound.

 

 

The only major negative of eating wonderful veggies is calcium. It would seem that all the studies indicate bone density is consistently lower in diets that have no meat. No one yet knows why. Even when all the essencial vitamins, nutrients and minerals are included in the totally veggie diet, bone density goes down. So just eat fish, chicken and other wholesome white meats.

 

 

So. Do not go 100% agsinst meat. Give your bodies a chance. I still ravish a good steak on occasions. My favourites are fish, chicken and lamb.

[HokeyReligions]

I'm not a strict vegan/vegetarian, but I don't eat animals 99% of the time. I won't go into all the reasons why. I worm them, take them to the vet, play with them, care for them, hold them when I have to have them put to sleep, mourn them when they are gone, and turn my back with the truck comes for the larger animals that I can't bury or cremate.

 

Having said that - I do eat some animal products, such as dairy. Milk, cheese, and even unfertilized eggs. My husband makes grilled chicken so I eat that -- they are free-range chickens though (a bit more expensive, but worth it to me) and we will have Turkey at thanksgiving.

 

Soy is a great food - it can be made into lots of things and I usually refer to it as hamburger because I buy ground soy which looks and tastes like hamburger. I BBQ it & use it in various recipes.

 

Pasta and Potato's are very flexible foods, and can be found with no animal products. I prefer pasta with wheat flour - but occasionally I'll have pasta made with white flour. I take a multi vitamin every day and I eat cereals with vitamins and minerals.

 

I limit foods made with white flour or processed sugar and try to stick to whole veggies rather than canned, but sometimes the canned is more convenient.

 

I didn't read any books on vegetarianism. I just stopped eating "things with faces" and started eating more whole foods and less processed foods. I still hate to cook though! I have noticed a decrease in my allergy symptoms and if I eliminate milk & dairy from my diet I feel better emotionally. The doctor even said that dairy products can contribute to, or enhance depression.

[KL]

Soy and dairy products are not very healthy, both are found to cause cancer. So if not these two, then there are only beans left that could serve as a source of protein, but it also is not healthy to eat beans all the time.

[Holly]

Where did you get your information? Soy and dairy products cause cancer?? Can you back this up with credible and substantial research?

[BlockHead]

I'm thinking of not eating anything that has a face - actually anything that might be a member of the animal kingdom.

Let me guess, you people don’t want to feel guilty about taking a life. Is a life less valuable if it doesn’t have a face? Seeds, vegetables, etc. are still living things.

 

The only way I can think of to avoid taking a live is to use photosynthesis or replace the organics.

Who wants to become a plant?

Who wants to become a machine?

 

As humans, we are still part of the food chain. We eat plants, animals, and fungi. One day all of us will become prey for a predator, food for a scavenger, or fertilizer for some plant.

 

Hmm, I guess I have thoughts on death and our worries about the process that probably need another thread.

We are all mortal. We will all expire. Death can be caused by cancer, heart disease, injury, sickness, etc. Accept the inevitable.

 

It would be interesting if somebody were to develop a cure for death.

[Iamhappy]

Let me guess, you people don’t want to feel guilty about taking a life

 

(raises hand, small voice) - guilty of feeling guilty.

 

Is a life less valuable if it doesn’t have a face?

 

Every life has value - plant or animal. But I do need to eat...something. I guess I just rationalized that eating plants would be more ok than eating animals because I'd like to believe there would be no pain (maybe less pain) or suffering involved with plants.

 

Sounds stupid, I know.

[KL]

http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/10/breast_cancer_soy.htm

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/community/2020/chat_breastcancer010118.html

 

This is the information about soy and dairy, and their connection to cancer.

[cdn]

Originally posted by Iamnotnothing

(raises hand, small voice) - guilty of feeling guilty.

 

 

 

Every life has value - plant or animal. But I do need to eat...something. I guess I just rationalized that eating plants would be more ok than eating animals because I'd like to believe there would be no pain (maybe less pain) or suffering involved with plants.

 

Sounds stupid, I know.

 

It doesn't sound stupid at all. It sounds quite reasonable and compassionate, in fact. And there are plenty of non-meat (or non-animal, if you prefer) based things you can eat. (And, no, plants don't feel pain and animals surely do.)

 

This link http://www.goveg.com/feat/nutshell.html will take you to the "Vegetarianism in a Nutshell" page. The links on the right side of the page will allow you to read or hear some really good information about why vegetarianism makes sense. The essay is long but worth the read, imo. You might also want to check out http://www.vegsource.com for recipes and other hands-on ideas (plus lots of info about health and nutrition there, too).

[cdn]

Originally posted by KL

http://www.mercola.com/2001/feb/10/breast_cancer_soy.htm

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/community/2020/chat_breastcancer010118.html

 

This is the information about soy and dairy, and their connection to cancer.

 

The link between breast cancer and soy is tenuous at best and even those scientists who claim there is a link believe it is present only when soy is taken as a supplement, NOT when eaten as a natrual food (i.e., soy nuts, tofu, etc.). Asian women, who eat far more soy then their American counterparts, have a far LOWER rate of breast cancer.

[BlockHead]

Every life has value - plant or animal. But I do need to eat...something. I guess I just rationalized that eating plants would be more ok than eating animals because I'd like to believe there would be no pain (maybe less pain) or suffering involved with plants.

You are saying that because a plant does not feel pain, it is less valuable than a life that does feel pain. In other words, you don’t feel guilty because it does not feel pain. That is discrimination. A life is a life.

 

How do we avoid pain when killing an animal? Poison it or kill it too quickly for it to feel pain. Poison an animal with alcohol and then drain its blood. Poison an animal with carbon monoxide. Using a high-power rifle, blow the animal’s head off. Make its head explode into a million pieces.

 

Asian women, who eat far more soy then their American counterparts, have a far LOWER rate of breast cancer.

Is there conclusive evidence to support it? Heredity, customs, diet, minerals in the water, radioactivity in the environment, stress, disease, physical injuries, etc. can be factors.

 

PETA is an organization that will say anything and everything to support its own agenda. These people will do just about anything.

http://stacks.msnbc.com/local/wfla/MGA0X6WCZ2D.asp?cp1=1

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1127/context/archive

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/000994.php

 

Do you take them seriously?

[Iamhappy]

You are saying that because a plant does not feel pain, it is less valuable than a life that does feel pain.

I didn't say they didn't feel pain. I said I'd like to believe they didn't fail pain and if they did, less pain.

 

In other words, you don’t feel guilty because it does not feel pain. That is discrimination. A life is a life.

 

I think you're misunderstanding what my point is and what I'm feeling. I've already stated that every life has value and as far as guilt is concerned over hurting another living creature (plant or animal), I feel that up the wazoo.

 

But like I said. I need to eat something and until I can master photosynthesis on my own and figure out how the air has nutrients I can harness, my way of trying to do no harm or in this case, the least amount of harm, is by eating plants.

 

If you read my original post, you can see that though I feel guilty about it, I am mighty grateful that a living thing gave up its life so that I might live.

 

It might seem silly to you that I feel this way over something seemingly so unimportant and simple as eating, but it's more than a health issue for me.

[BlockHead]

I need to eat something and until I can master photosynthesis on my own and figure out how the air has nutrients I can harness, my way of trying to do no harm or in this case, the least amount of harm, is by eating plants.

How is it harmful? Whether it is God, nature, or evolution, you will always be part of the food chain. Something must die so that something else can live.

 

I think it is arrogant to believe that one is somehow above or beyond nature while in reality, we are a part of it.

 

This might also be misdirected sympathy. Instead of being sympathetic toward people, the person is sympathetic toward animals. Attaching human qualities to something that clearly is not human.

 

Is the bear looking at you because it thinks you are cute, or is it because it looks at you in the same way that a child looks at a candy bar?

[Iamhappy]

BlockHead:

 

While I respect your opinions, I do think you're straying off-topic and delving into issues which require a thread all on their own. I must admit partial responsibility for this because I started the ball rolling when I replied to your post about guilt. I'm going to fuel fires a bit more because I do feel the need to respond.

 

You say it is arrogant to believe that one is somehow above or beyond nature. If we're going to engage in a discussion over semantics, I might point out that you are arrogant to assume that my beliefs are borne of the feeling of superiority over other creatures. Have you ever considered the possibility that I am exploring this path not because of arrogance but because of humility?

 

As far as misdirected sympathy is concerned aren't you now being arrogant to assume that that is the reason why I would choose to be a vegetarian?

 

You can opine all you want about how this seems so stupid (isn't that what you're really saying in not so many thinly-veiled words), but it doesn't change the fact that what I choose to put in my mouth or what I wear on my body is motivated by something other than basic instinct.

[BlockHead]

I don’t have a problem if somebody becomes a vegetarian because that person dislikes the taste or texture of meats. I think it is a joke if one were to do it because somebody says you will live longer, or because it will do less harm. I don’t like the self-righteous baloney that some people are willing to dish out.

 

I despise the idea of becoming a vegetarian to make a fashion statement.

[cdn]

Originally posted by BlockHead

You are saying that because a plant does not feel pain, it is less valuable than a life that does feel pain. In other words, you don’t feel guilty because it does not feel pain. That is discrimination. A life is a life.

 

No, I am saying that there is difference between a plant and a cow and it is not, in fact, discriminatory to recognize that difference and act on it. Otherwise, why don't we just kill people? Just another life, right? I think you are too smart for this.

 

How do we avoid pain when killing an animal? Poison it or kill it too quickly for it to feel pain. Poison an animal with alcohol and then drain its blood. Poison an animal with carbon monoxide. Using a high-power rifle, blow the animal’s head off. Make its head explode into a million pieces.

 

First off, I don't agree that humane killing is ok (assuming you can actually achieve "humane" killing). Second, meat factories do not use humane methods but those that are most cost-effective. Third, the lives the animals live in captivity until they are killed are also tortured existences.

 

PETA is an organization that will say anything and everything to support its own agenda. These people will do just about anything.

 

PETA has gone over the top in several instances. But the article I referred to is not over the top. It is a very well laid out essay on the various reasons to be vegetarian. This is the sort of information I thought the original poster was looking for.

[HokeyReligions]

You know the word 'vegetarian' came from an old Indian word meaning 'lousy hunter'

 

[Iamhappy]

Thanks, cdn and all, for the info.

 

It was not my intent to get into a discussion about life, death and guilt. I simply wanted input from others regarding their experiences with vegetarianism so that I would be better able to make an informed decision.

 

To BlockHead:

 

I don’t have a problem if somebody becomes a vegetarian because that person dislikes the taste or texture of meats. I think it is a joke if one were to do it because somebody says you will live longer, or because it will do less harm.

 

So it is inconceivable for you to accept that a person might choose this way of life for reasons not acceptable to you?

 

You say that you don't like the self-righteous baloney that some people are willing to dish out. May I point out that your position is in and of itself self-righteous.

 

I despise the idea of becoming a vegetarian to make a fashion statement.

 

Why don't you just come right out and say that you think all people who are vegetarian or thinking of becoming vegetarian are doing so because it is en vogue? Hiding behind rhetoric doesn't disquise your contempt for those who've made this choice or are thinking of making this choice. Clearly, if the choice is made outside the confines of what you deem acceptable, you think it invalid.

[KL]

Asian women eat a lot less soy than vegetarians, and don't eat any dairy products. Soy is bad in whatever form you take it, do some more research.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by KL

Asian women eat a lot less soy than vegetarians, and don't eat any dairy products. Soy is bad in whatever form you take it, do some more research.

 

Living causes death - I like soy and its a great alternative to other substances/foods. Eating too many carrots can turn your skin orange too!

 

 

All things in moderation.

[KL]

That's a funny excuse people find to continue with their habits. "I eat red meat, because I love it and I always ate it". Well, that's not the right reasons, are they? Just because you happen to like soy, it doesn't make it a good product and a good alternative to anything. Too much of anything is bad, but some things are a lot worse than others. And yes, there are people who experiment with their health until it is too late, and don't learn from the mistakes of others.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by KL

That's a funny excuse people find to continue with their habits. "I eat red meat, because I love it and I always ate it". Well, that's not the right reasons, are they? Just because you happen to like soy, it doesn't make it a good product and a good alternative to anything. Too much of anything is bad, but some things are a lot worse than others. And yes, there are people who experiment with their health until it is too late, and don't learn from the mistakes of others.

 

Oho! And what qualifies you to tell anyone what "right" reasons are? LOL

Well, that's not the right reasons, are they?

Answer -- Sure they are the right reasons. Why not?

 

Did you see in my post where I said "all things in moderation" ??

 

I stand by my statement: LIVING CAUSES DEATH.

 

 

Just because you happen to like soy, it doesn't make it a good product and a good alternative to anything

and just because you think soy is dangerous does not make it so. It IS a good alternative for a lot of foods. Maybe not for you though. It's a good product for a lot of people.

[moimeme]

Soy is bad in whatever form you take it, do some more research.

 

'Research' should not consist of reading the claims of single individuals, whether they are 'scientists' or 'doctors' or not, who then collect only the information that supports their particular theory.

 

I also suggest you read your own 'research'. The mercola article did not say that all soy was bad; rather that women should eat natural soy in moderation instead of taking supplements. The woman who wrote her book on cancer is one of thousands of people with different theories.

 

It is a mistake to base your ideas on nutrition on the claims of people like these. Your best bet is to research credible sources such as major medical organizations like NIH and Health Canada, universities, and teaching hospitals. Individual authors generally have their own products, including books to sell and cannot be counted upon to be wholly objective.

[cdn]

I think the villification of soy is misplaced at best. Here are some links you may want to check out (all from reputable sources):

 

http://www.thewomenshealthsite.org/article_display.jsp?ArticleID=644

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/diet.fitness/03/07/cholesterol.diet.ap/

http://ya-hink-web1.healthink.com/vitality/vod/ShowArticle.asp?ID=717

http://www.nccc.org/news/cngi_study_092303.html (this one specificaly addresses a link between DECREASED risk of breast cancer and soy consumption)

http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/3421.html

 

If you do a seacrh on the Internet you can find many more. All these studies point to the benefits of soy and specifically address soy as a factor in reducing cancer rates. One link addresses American versus Asian soy consumption and the accompanying health benefits.

 

That said, there are a few caveats: first is that soy-based formula for infants is nowhere near as healthy as breast milk, but that's obvious, isn't it? :-) Second is that soy is a heavily pesticided crop, so if you can buy organic soy, so much the better. And third is that any diet should be comprised of a variety of foods. Soy is just one component of a healthy diet, not the only component. Many people adopt a vegetarian diet without including much soy, and this is also ok. I think non-vegetarians assume that vegetarians use more soy than they actually do.

[KL]

Logic and common sense qualify me to say anything. They are not the right reasons because they are based only on your habits.

 

 

There is a stress on soy and dairy in vegetarian lifestyle, because that is all there is. So there is no moderation.

 

 

Soy might be dangerous not because I think so, I've been reading a lot about it. Where is the proof that it is a good product? If there is some confusing information, how can you be sure?

 

Unhealthy living causes sooner death.