Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[AAlike]

 

You will not change a mans desire to see other women naked. You can take away the oppurtunity but you will not take away the desire.

 

 

yes, THAT'S how to put it.

 

thank you!

[Jersey Shortie]

Well really, all that really matters iswhat the man needs. Forget that he got himself into a committed relationship. Once in a relationship it's okay for him to say about how much he needs to look at other women.Why do you men even bother getting into relatoinships when it's clear what is really important to you?

 

I don't want to take away anything from a man . I want him to be man enough to feel good and happy with himself without having to seek out so much outside stimulation that he infact can't seem to control.

 

AALike, you say I win? No, I don't win. And niether do any of those hard working women out there that bare men's babies, age with them, do their laundry and are there for them everyday of the week and still have husbands that will turn to porn "once-in-awhile" despite all that she gives to him. That's what really wins. Not women. Real women who aren't the fantasy gte the crap end of the stick.

[Stockalone]

I don't even own a plastic friend AALike. But I do think a fake penis is comparable to fake vagina. The women in the porno movie are real people. The plastic fake part is a plastic fake part. Personally, for me, there is a distinction.

 

While the women in porn are real people, I don't think of them as real. They aren't more real than a character in a movie. The actor/actress is real, the character he/she portrays, isn't.

 

As someone else said, porn can be seen as a tool just like the fake plastic part.

 

 

Well really, all that really matters iswhat the man needs. Forget that he got himself into a committed relationship. Once in a relationship it's okay for him to say about how much he needs to look at other women.Why do you men even bother getting into relatoinships when it's clear what is really important to you?

 

Lighten up. It's not like she is cheating on you. Let her have her fun. She is going home with you. Not him.

 

That was your response to a guy who complained about his gf being a bit flirty with other men when they went clubbing. I don't know if you were sarcastic on purpose given the poster who started that thread or if that would be your advice to all guys who complain about the same problem.

 

Because for some men (me included) that supposedly harmless banter is a real concern and the arguments are not different from your complaint about porn. It's disrespectful towards their SO, they need outside validation from other men, etc.

 

 

No, I don't win. And niether do any of those hard working women out there that bare men's babies, age with them, do their laundry and are there for them everyday of the week and still have husbands that will turn to porn "once-in-awhile" despite all that she gives to him. That's what really wins. Not women. Real women who aren't the fantasy gte the crap end of the stick.

 

If those men lie about their preferences (and looking at porn is just that for me, a preference), then I agree that those women are being taken advantage of. If those women knew about it before getting into a relationship with those men, then they do so at their own risk.

 

You don't have to date men who want to watch porn. Because not all men look at porn when they are in a relationship. And some men don't look at porn at all.

 

 

You will not change a mans desire to see other women naked. You can take away the oppurtunity but you will not take away the desire.

 

yes, THAT'S how to put it.

 

thank you!

 

Is the reason you look at porn really because you want to see other naked women besides your SO?

[sally4sara]

As for your second part of thequestion. I think "porn" made for two people tobe viewed by two people is different then porn made for the masses. If you really dont' see the difference, I would question you.

 

All I asked is what you mean by this statement above.

 

You have not explained so I offered suggestions that I thought might be what you meant.

 

All I get is breeze for asking a simple respectful question.

 

Please answer. You keep pointing out that this is a discussion board. I'm trying to discuss it with you.

[AAlike]

 

AALike, you say I win? No, I don't win. And niether do any of those hard working women out there that bare men's babies, age with them, do their laundry and are there for them everyday of the week and still have husbands that will turn to porn "once-in-awhile" despite all that she gives to him. That's what really wins. Not women. Real women who aren't the fantasy gte the crap end of the stick.

 

so wait - the fact that the guy views porn "once in a while" invalidates all of that? WTF? who's really doing the objectifying here?

 

I can't even really believe that you feel this easily threatened.

 

to use your "what if you let your woman get her emotional rocks elsewhere" comparison - an equivalent would be if I complained that my wife of 20 years watched a "chick flick" and it all of sudden made my whole REAL LIFE relationship inferior. "I bought you a house, raised kids with you, supported you, and now I catch you watching SAY ANYTHING!?!??! DAMN YOU AND YOUR BOOMBOX, CUSACK, I SHALL NEVER MEASURE UP!!!"

[samspade]

And niether do any of those hard working women out there that bare men's babies, age with them, do their laundry and are there for them everyday of the week and still have husbands that will turn to porn "once-in-awhile" despite all that she gives to him.

 

That's rich - he's enjoying porn "despite all that she gives to him" as if he can't appreciate both, and as if SHE can't enjoy porn as well. And of course while she's doing all the hard work, he couldn't possibly be providing a roof over her head, food on her plate, and the actual laundry she washes. And of course it's presumed that she's giving him all he needs in the bedroom.

 

This is just one more of many smokescreen threads intended to blame the opposite sex for one individual's loneliness and bitterness. Nobody is forcing anybody to date anybody who enjoys porn, but for some reason what some people do legally and within the privacy of their own homes - and with their partner's consent - is grounds for judgment and attack.

 

Real women who aren't the fantasy gte the crap end of the stick.

 

Translation: Bitter women who aren't in tune with their partner's sexuality are "victims" of their partner's supposed sexual deviancy (i.e., porn viewing). Once again, it's only women who are victims, and men are the culprits. It couldn't be possible that a WOMAN might watch porn against the wishes of her husband.

 

But I do think a fake penis is comparable to fake vagina. The women in the porno movie are real people. The plastic fake part is a plastic fake part. Personally, for me, there is a distinction.

 

That is an absurd distinction to make, and here is why: What is the difference between somebody masturbating to what he/she sees on screen, and masturbating to what he/she sees when he/she closes his/her eyes? Maybe JS should start a new thread that blames people for their private thoughts and fantasies. After all, if a man is in a relationship, why does he feel the need to close his eyes and fantasize about another female? And a woman would never do that, either, would she!

 

Enough with the morality police. Viva Porn!

[fishtaco]

http://www.funnybeez.com/funnypictures/hooters-protest.jpg

[mr.dream merchant]

http://www.funnybeez.com/funnypictures/hooters-protest.jpg

 

Funny picture. On a serious note, that shorty in the front could get it backwards, forwards and sideways til next year and back....without the condom....I kid I kid, with the wrap of course. =)

[sally4sara]

Why would I share my personal experiences with you after you just put me down?

 

I have not insulted you but you won't answer my question either.

[sally4sara]

I answered your question Sally. What exactly have I dodged? As I stated, this being my third time stating this, there is a HUGE difference between what you do with your partner in a personal relationship then what goes on between two people doing a porno. There is a huge difference between a man taping *his* lady and later using it for his pleasure then there is a man watching other women and getting off to other women. That's my opinion and it's not going to change any more then yours is. But don't accuse me of not answering your quesiton just because you don't like the response when I answered it three times already. And yes, I still think mainstream porn is degrading to women.

 

And then here.

 

This is where I start to think she feels instead, its best that we each be in personal home porn so our male partners don't watch strange women in the mainstream porn and degrade women in general.

 

I ask if she means us to all be porn stars for our mates and she says that isn't what she suggests.

I ask if she instead meant what I first perceived "porn for couples to be watched by couples" to mean - there is some porn out there she feels has been made for specifically for couples to watch and she say that isn't what she means either........

 

The only thing she did communicate clearly is that if I can't make sense of what she wrote....she needs to wonder about me.

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[Jersey Shortie]

While the women in porn are real people, I don't think of them as real. They aren't more real than a character in a movie. The actor/actress is real, the character he/she portrays, isn't.

 

As someone else said, porn can be seen as a tool just like the fake plastic part.

 

Well I don't know what is worse. That people actually view the people in the movie as less then a person and like a "fake plastic toy" for their enjoyment or if they actually do view them as Human Beings which of course is in reality what they are. People. Human Beings. I mean honestly, how many men would want a woman they cared about to actually do porn? Not many. Yet it's okay if men in families use the same women they obviously feel aren't respected very much for their own pleasure. What does that really say about how men feel about women in general? I don't think it says anything nice.

 

 

That was your response to a guy who complained about his gf being a bit flirty with other men when they went clubbing. I don't know if you were sarcastic on purpose given the poster who started that thread or if that would be your advice to all guys who complain about the same problem.

 

My advice had to do with that individual poster. The same poster that is getting upset that his girl might laugh at what another guys says yet just came on this thread and said how he would "hit that" to a picture of a Hooters girl.

 

Because for some men (me included) that supposedly harmless banter is a real concern and the arguments are not different from your complaint about porn. It's disrespectful towards their SO, they need outside validation from other men, etc.

 

Exactly though. *YOU* and alot of men would fiind it disrespectful because their female partner was seeking outside validation. It's not harmless to you and other men. Just as porn isn't harmless to other women either for various reasons. Yet all most men want to do (you included) is tell women why it isn't harmless and ignore how a woman can feel about it or make fun of her for it..Actually, you have not made fun of me for it so that part doesn't include you. But you defended porn as being harmless and just because you think it is, doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

 

 

You don't have to date men who want to watch porn. Because not all men look at porn when they are in a relationship. And some men don't look at porn at all.

 

Please tell me where to find such men.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

AALike:

so wait - the fact that the guy views porn "once in a while" invalidates all of that? WTF? who's really doing the objectifying here?

 

I can't even really believe that you feel this easily threatened.

 

I can't believe how easily men are swayed and turned on by porn. Something that is so fake and contrived and is demeaning to women.

 

Really, Why do we expect women to be more highly evovled then men? How many excuses have been made for men to use porn based on the fact that he is a *man*. How come all the sudden when the woman responds as a woman, she is just "silly" or just "easily threatened" and written off? I AM insecure and I don't deny that. That is NOT the only reason I feel the way I do about the subject. I find it mind blowing that porn is all about playing up to male insecurities yet we condemn women for their VERY NATURAL insecurities when it comes to porn. It's okay that porn plays into all the things that men can feel insecure about and creates a fantasy world that men feel liek "the man" in. Yet lets mock women for quetsioning their own place in their man's life faced against his super imposed ideal fantasy world. Real fair. Lets tell the women that are bothered by porn how awful they are and silly for their feelings but lets pat men on the back and say "there, there, we completely understand why you like it'.

[Jersey Shortie]

Sally:

All I asked is what you mean by this statement above.

 

You have not explained so I offered suggestions that I thought might be what you meant.

 

All I get is breeze for asking a simple respectful question.

 

Please answer. You keep pointing out that this is a discussion board. I'm trying to discuss it with you.

 

You were given a respectful answer. What I have issue with is your inclination to make unfounded statements that you try to pass off as true for me that I never said. I've answered your question 4 times. Frankly, I don't understand why you are left so confused. I think it's a matter of you not liking my response. By the way, I pointed out that this was a discussion board to one person in another thread. I didn't realize that could turn into "you keep" doing anything.

 

 

 

 

I ask if she means us to all be porn stars for our mates and she says that isn't what she suggests.

 

It's not what I suggest. I said it can be a possibility, sure. But where did I ever say "that is the answer to the issue?" I never suggested that was the answer. *You* did that. I suspect most men wouldn't be happy with home grown porn of their own partner because what they really want is a new girl to get off too.

 

I ask if she instead meant what I first perceived "porn for couples to be watched by couples" to mean - there is some porn out there she feels has been made for specifically for couples to watch and she say that isn't what she means either........

 

The only thing she did communicate clearly is that if I can't make sense of what she wrote....she needs to wonder about me.

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills

 

Sally, did you ever think that you were the one not communicating clearly? Frankly, I am confused by you to be honest. It seems to me that you are doing alot of twisting of my words to suite your own purpose.

 

I really don't know how much clearer you need it to be. I think a couple taping themselves for themselves is different then a a couple or individual looking at porn of other women. I do think mass produced porn is demeaning to women. I think what goes on between a couple and stays there is different. I asked you quite a few questions as well that you fully head on ignored.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's rich - he's enjoying porn "despite all that she gives to him" as if he can't appreciate both, and as if SHE can't enjoy porn as well. And of course while she's doing all the hard work, he couldn't possibly be providing a roof over her head, food on her plate, and the actual laundry she washes. And of course it's presumed that she's giving him all he needs in the bedroom.

 

I do think men can appreciate both and that is part of the reason I find it self indulgent. Because you can give so much to a man but it is never enough because he can enjoy you and the porn. Why put in the effort if he can truly enjoy both? You're effort is pointless. It's not like you get his loyatly or that he thinks your more special obviously. It's clear that no matter how much you give of oyurself, it's just not enough for a man and he clearly needs other women to feel satisfied with himself.

 

This is just one more of many smokescreen threads intended to blame the opposite sex for one individual's loneliness and bitterness. Nobody is forcing anybody to date anybody who enjoys porn, but for some reason what some people do legally and within the privacy of their own homes - and with their partner's consent - is grounds for judgment and attack.

 

I am not trying to blame men! I am trying to have an open dialogue about a topic that I think in reality is difficult for both sides. I am bitter sometimes and right now I am lonely Sam, those are both very human emotions we all feel sometimes. I don't see what either has to do with my core beliefs. Those two things don't make me dumb. I am not perfect and I don't claim to be.

 

Translation: Bitter women who aren't in tune with their partner's sexuality are "victims" of their partner's supposed sexual deviancy (i.e., porn viewing). Once again, it's only women who are victims, and men are the culprits. It couldn't be possible that a WOMAN might watch porn against the wishes of her husband.

 

OF coures a woman could do that. But I don't experience that from my female perspective! I am not saying women are victims at all. Feeling hurt of frustrated doesn't mean that a person wants or is a victim . IT's called being honest about the rainbow of feelings out there. And again, I can be bitter and I dont deny that but you sound bitter yourself sometimes. The difference here is I don't throw that to you as an attack. People can be bitter because that is a normal human emotion. It be great if we could all be happy and smiles but that's not reality. All that seems to matter is men sure want their partner tobe "intune" with their sexualty but not many men seem to want the reverse to be true.

 

 

Enough with the morality police. Viva Porn!

 

And that is the exact mentality I have always faced in life with men when it came to porn use. Viva Porn. And that is why I think porn is very important to men.

[missdependant]

And that is the exact mentality I have always faced in life with men when it came to porn use. Viva Porn. And that is why I think porn is very important to men.

 

Then maybe you should date a woman.

[gopher]

There is an anti-maleness of this topic that is understandable, but somehow makes women seem better people and partners than men are. During my travels this week, my sales rep and I sat next to 3 women at the Cheesecake factory during lunch...I observed the following..

 

1. They were loud, rude and obnoxious....never mind that we were trying to have a conversation 2 feet away.

 

2. They never.....shut.....up....

 

3. They constantly talked over each other, barely listening....

 

4. I could hardly help overhearing them, talk about other women, their relationships and bashing their men's faults....

 

So, are these positive traits?

 

Is it no wonder men talk so little?...

 

Is it correct to assume that all women love drama, and will create it, if it's not present?

 

How many other tables were there like that one in that restaraunt?, In Philadelphia? The United States? The World?

 

 

So, are women somehow better than men, because they don't in large part view porn or strip clubs?

 

Are their failings any less destructive to a relationship than a man's?

 

Should I judge all women, by the one table I sat next to?

[sally4sara]

Sally, did you ever think that you were the one not communicating clearly? Frankly, I am confused by you to be honest. It seems to me that you are doing alot of twisting of my words to suite your own purpose.

 

I am not responsible for your suspicious reaction to a simple question. If you were not so expecting me to twist words and just explain what you said - I wouldn't have to start guessing.

 

I really don't know how much clearer you need it to be. I think a couple taping themselves for themselves is different then a a couple or individual looking at porn of other women. I do think mass produced porn is demeaning to women. I think what goes on between a couple and stays there is different. I asked you quite a few questions as well that you fully head on ignored.

 

Freekin FINALLY! Thats all I was asking for! A simple response to "Hey, what did you mean by this?" cause I can't discuss something that isn't clear to me.

 

If I "ignored" a question you asked, it was not intentional. If you ask it again, I promise to be clearer and much less snide than you've been to me. I realize you catch a lot of flack on here; please don't take it out on me.

 

Seeing the difference between mainstream porn and home-made porn requires access to said home-made porn. I don't make porn movies or pictures. I have seen home-made porn.....on a porn site......after it had been made public. With consent of both parties or intent from the start? Dunno. But that would be more about why I would never make a home-made porn for my partner. Who knows what might happen to it?

 

Is the enjoyment of the female in a movie how you decide if it degrades them? If the porn is home-made and made by people in a relationship, it's less likely faked and, yeah, different for that reason.

[missdependant]

So, are women somehow better than men, because they don't in large part view porn or strip clubs?

 

 

No. Jersey Shortie is just high and mighty. Not all women are better than all men. But Jersey Shortie is better than EVERYONE!

[fishtaco]

No. Jersey Shortie is just high and mighty. Not all women are better than all men. But Jersey Shortie is better than EVERYONE!

 

Yup. That's why she's on my ignore list.

 

Anyway, at this point this thread seems to be more about Jersey Shortie's personal fury than the original topic. But what do I know, I'm just a type of Mexican food.

[Jersey Shortie]

Then maybe you should date a woman.

 

Maybe you should not be so catty MissIndependent.

 

 

Gopher, I don't think women are better people. And I never once said they were or that I was "better" then anyone. I am addressing one issue that I have encountered over and over and over again with men. I have listened to my friends complain about their guy's porn use. I certainly agree with you that there are women that do the things you observed and I find that pretty crappy. I certainly wouldn't want to be around those type of women and I certainly understand why a man would withdrawl in that situation. But what does that have to do with the issues that come up with porn use? Please start a thread expressing your frustrations about women. I welcome you to it. But I don't undestand what that has to do with this topic.

 

Perhaps it's really a case of being anti-feminine. I think porn is pretty anti-feminine. Is there any one here that really believes that porn is about celebrating women, their beauty and respecting them?

 

Its not about celebrating women for who they are but creating a stereotype that apparently alot of men wish to be true on some level that no real woman lives up to. And creating a stereotype that men are selfish, sex craved, and have little respect or regard for a women in general. Is that how men enjoy being protrayed?

[Jersey Shortie]

I am not responsible for your suspicious reaction to a simple question. If you were not so expecting me to twist words and just explain what you said - I wouldn't have to start guessing.

 

This is really just a passive aggressively dig that I am personally baffled about. I tried to consider that possibly we just didn’t understand each other but telling me my reaction was suspicious makes no sense. I answered your question 4 times + previously and you ignored the response. Perhaps you didn't understand it. That’s fine, people often don’t always understand each other but taking shots at me for it, not cool. You’re not responsible for how I interrupt comments but what? I am suppose to be responsible for how you do? That is what your words are saying. What really bothered me is that you made guesses about what you thought was going on in my head more then you really listened to the answers I gave you. If I wasn’t expecting you to twist your words around you wouldn’t have to make guesses? I'm responsible for your thought process and the way you formulate your thoughts? How does that even make any sense?

 

Freekin FINALLY! Thats all I was asking for! A simple response to "Hey, what did you mean by this?" cause I can't discuss something that isn't clear to me.

 

Freakin Finally? Sally, I went back through my posts and picked out all of my responses to you related to this question. Please take a look:

 

 

Jersey to Sally:

I think "porn" made for two people to be viewed by two people is different then porn made for the masses.

 

Jersey to Sally:

I think what happens between two people that stays between two people within a relationship is vastly different then what happens in a porn flick.

 

Jersey to Sally:

I answered your question Sally. What exactly have I dodged? As I stated, this being my third time stating this, there is a HUGE difference between what you do with your partner in a personal relationship then what goes on between two people doing a porno. There is a huge difference between a man taping *his* lady and later using it for his pleasure then there is a man watching other women and getting off to other women. That's my opinion and it's not going to change any more then yours is.

 

Jersey to Sally:

Please stop insisting to tell me what I feel. I NEVER mentioned that the answer was women making porn of themselves. I think my arguments ran the line of using self control more times then not. I guess it can be an option for a couple. I think a woman making a video of herself or her partner making one of her for just the two of them, and him or her watching it, is vastly different then looking at porn off the internet of women. I mean, you seriously don't see the difference? Come on. You don't get why a movie producded by a triple x corporation is different then a couple making a movie of themselves? Maybe you don't consider them different things but I certainly do. I think most people would. Considering the numerous factors that make the two situations entirely different

 

Jersey to Sally:

I do think porn is degrading to women. I don't think a *porn* made by two people in a relationship to be shared between them is quite the same situation as porn produced for the masses and used by the masses to pleasure themselves to. I think what goes on between a couple is VASTLY different then what goes on between two people that are hired to bleep each other. I think a man focusing on his partner and watching her is vastly different then a man watching 10 + 18 year olds get bleeped from behind while she gets called a slut. I think if two people are sharing between themselves, without using outside sources, it's vastly different. Is the act of sex theoretically the same? Of course. Who would argue otherwise? Does that make the situations the same? Of course not.

 

How is it that you can scream "Freakin Finally" when you had all these above posts that clearly illustrate the same exact thing in my last post? There is not one thing new in the final statement that wasn't said to you 5 times previously. I can see why you asked questions based on my first two statements and even though I had them in my head clearly, they were not expressed completely cleary. But instead of truely saying " hey Jersey, can you futher explain that", you said "don't dodge me Jersey". You already made an assumption instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt as you claim. You didn't ask "hey Jersey, can you please explain further." You went on attack. Go back and read your post because that comment was directly qouted.

 

 

If I "ignored" a question you asked, it was not intentional. If you ask it again, I promise to be clearer and much less snide than you've been to me. I realize you catch a lot of flack on here; please don't take it out on me.

 

How can I even beleive that when your very statement that you will be less snide is exactly that, snide. I think you are very insincere.

 

I do catch alot of flack but that has nothing to do with my responses to you. My responses to you have to do with my interaction with *you*.

 

I also think it's hypocritical that you made claims about your lack of responsibility for your own words previously and how they were my fault and how your snidness is also *my fault*. I am not making you be snide, that's *you* and your choice.

[AAlike]

During my travels this week, my sales rep and I sat next to 3 women at the Cheesecake factory during lunch...

 

Should I judge all women, by the one table I sat next to?

 

no but you should judge anyone who eats at the Cheesecake Factory. especially people who think that it's really good - they are not to be trusted.

[Jersey Shortie]

I wanted to add this but it wouldn't let me so I just want to also say that this isn't a case of you being a sweet innocent little darling Sally and me being nasty to you. This is a case of two strong minded women not understanding each other. I fully can admit my posts to you have been snide. Because I did feel yours was to me and I felt like you went after me like a dog on a bone. I am sure that is the case with you as well. But please spare me from painting yourself so innocently and me as the only culprit in this situation and insinuating what a better person you are because you can manage to be "less snide" then I have been to poor little you.

[sally4sara]

Words and semantics.

 

Look, you mention porn made for two people to be viewed by two people. I asked what that was and you said if I didn't know the diff between what you said and mainstream porn - you wonder about me.

I asked if you were implying there was special couples friendly porn that would be a better alternative to mainstream. You said no, that wasn't what you meant.

So I asked if you mean it was better if we each create personal porn for the use of our partner and you said you did not suggest that either. This left me wondering just what the point of the comment was to begin with.

I don't care if you think I'm sweet or innocent or whatever. I only wondered if you were suspicious in your responses because you get mocked a lot (not my responsibility).

 

We all may have different ways of going about resolving an issue. I've always felt compromise and open discussion was a good way to handle things.

 

This one is porn, strip clubs, how men use them and the damage it can cause to their relationship and partner. We see a lot of people weigh in their personal opinion and others who just make jokes. Some who take personal offense as though their life is under attack, while others get attacked for nothing more than a response being misunderstood. If we cut out all the semantics and arguing about said semantics, this thread would be HALF the pages it now is. More than half of your responses are nothing more than retorts of HOW rudely or incorrectly people ask you questions rather than just answering them. Then more than half their responses to you are retorts of how you can't just answer or explain what you typed. Am I insulting you by pointing this out? I'm not intending to but you might choose to take it as an insult if it suits you and that also would not be my responsibility.

This happens a lot when YOU contribute to threads and not just with me.

 

Just like this response is turning out to be much long than needed.

 

Now that I know you were talking about home made porn and not some couples friendly porn, we actually have some new element to discuss. But you say you don't advocate this practice when asked. I agree with this because there are entire porn sites dedicated to home-made porn as a niche. Some of it looks staged, but a good bit of it suggests at least one of the people in the porn never intended it to be viewed publicly. I find that twice as dispicable and strongly feel women should never make a movie with their partner "just for him".

 

But still, where is the compromise? Being uncompromising rarely resolves anything. Do you have a suggestion to the male readers for what they can do instead that is more compromising than control and abstain? Something they could do to help them get from A to B (B being how you wish them to be).

 

It would be very easy to just write you off like others do, is that your aim? Just say so and I also won't bother because while I do agree with some of your points, I don't fully agree with your views.

[Stockalone]

Well I don't know what is worse. That people actually view the people in the movie as less then a person and like a "fake plastic toy" for their enjoyment or if they actually do view them as Human Beings which of course is in reality what they are. People. Human Beings. I mean honestly, how many men would want a woman they cared about to actually do porn? Not many. Yet it's okay if men in families use the same women they obviously feel aren't respected very much for their own pleasure. What does that really say about how men feel about women in general? I don't think it says anything nice.

 

What I meant is that the people in porn are obviously human beings (and not less of a person) but the product itself (porn) is not a depiction of real life. It is a scripted tale/fantasy, much like a regular movie and people get paid to play those parts. That is why it is "not real" to me.

 

Porn is a masturbation tool for me, nothing more. When I was a teenager, there was virtually no porn (I had seen a Playboy magazine but that was it), and I used my imagination. I certainly don't watch porn so that I can feel like "the man" as you put it, or because I want to watch porn that degrades women. I'd much rather have sex with a woman I love instead of masturbating alone (with or without porn).

 

I don't like most porn and what I watch, I don't consider demeaning towards women. It's not different from the things I have done with a gf and I am very vanilla. Granted, that is my personal, subjective opinion and you could argue that all porn degrades women. It also doesn't mean that my porn use while single should be accepted by a woman who is against porn.

 

 

My advice had to do with that individual poster. The same poster that is getting upset that his girl might laugh at what another guys says yet just came on this thread and said how he would "hit that" to a picture of a Hooters girl.

 

I thought so, but I still had to ask.

 

 

Exactly though. *YOU* and alot of men would fiind it disrespectful because their female partner was seeking outside validation. It's not harmless to you and other men. Just as porn isn't harmless to other women either for various reasons. Yet all most men want to do (you included) is tell women why it isn't harmless and ignore how a woman can feel about it or make fun of her for it..Actually, you have not made fun of me for it so that part doesn't include you. But you defended porn as being harmless and just because you think it is, doesn't necessarily make it so.

 

I consider the porn I watch to be harmless. There is a lot of porn that isn't my thing and I was merely trying to explain my position, I never watched porn when I was in a relationship but I use it regularly, though not always when I am single. I am not trying to change your mind about porn.

 

And I never said that all porn was harmless per se. Porn is like a weapon in that it has the potential to cause a lot of damage.

 

If all kinds of porn bother you, then it bothers you. It's a valid opinion that I can respect and I have no intention of making fun of you for it.

 

 

Please tell me where to find such men.

 

They are regular men, they just don't care about porn that much or in some cases they don't watch it at all. They do normal things just like all the other guys.

[Jersey Shortie]

Sally, where did you find that qoute? I'd love to take a look at it in the context it was written. Can you please share that with the rest of us? I am 99% sure it's not from this thread. I think you are preciously close to be charged with nothing more then hearsay or miss-applying a qoute from another thead. And that is pretty low.

 

Frankly, I've made my case. You misqoute me and yourself. You kept demanding answers to a question I answered for you 5 times. You can find that info behind this page in big black bold. Can't really work your way around that. You claim that you were saying "Hey Jersey, can you please explain that further" when what you really said was "don't dodge me Jersey". Sure, you could have asked in the manner you claim you did, but yuo didn't. Big difference Hun between what you say you were saying and what you really said right here on this board. And I can now see the first explanation I gave was unclear. I see that for sure now looking back and reading it. But come on, My addtional responses before you screamed "Freakin Finally" were AMPLE amounts of discussion and yet you dogmatically kept drilling for the same response over and over.

 

Sally:

So I asked if you mean it was better if we each create personal porn for the use of our partner and you said you did not suggest that either.

 

Because I didn't suggest that. What I Did say was, that could be an option but I never suggested that is what should happen. *You* did. These are some qoutes about what you really said Sally:

 

Sally to Jersey:

So now you DO think the answer is women creating porn for men so they don't degrade females by watching porn.

 

Sally to Jersey:

Then we are back to you feeling women should make porn of themselves for the use of their male partner.

 

Sally To Jersey:

If all porn is degrading to women, why would you advocate this?

 

Do you notice that in these qoutes *you* are telling *me* what I am feeling or do think and not asking. the last qoute is a question but it's a question asking me why I would advocate something that i never once advocated. Saying something is an option for a couple doesn't equal advocating.

 

More than half of your responses are nothing more than retorts of HOW rudely or incorrectly people ask you questions rather than just answering them.

 

If you are going to make such statements, please back that up with proof. Show me another person were I complained about their rudeness other then you. The only person I have discussed about their rudeness has been you because you've been running rampt about how poor sweet you is getting dogged when you are doing a good job of dogging on your own.

 

 

Am I insulting you by pointing this out? I'm not intending to but you might choose to take it as an insult if it suits you and that also would not be my responsibility. This happens a lot when YOU contribute to threads and not just with me.

 

Of course not, your own words, assumptions and claims couldn't possibly be your responsibility. It's okay for you to take things as insults and that's someone else's responsibility but not you. Do you realize how many times you said the liner " it's not my responsibilty?

 

 

It would be very easy to just write you off like others do, is that your aim? Just say so and I also won't bother because while I do agree with some of your points, I don't fully agree with your views.

 

I don't know why you think my "aim" in dicussing this subject has anything to do with you.