Men and Women and Porn and Strip Clubs

[soserious1]

Why? We always say men are "visual" and women are "emotional". If it's not okay for a woman to act on her emotional whim why is oaky if men act on their visual sexual whims?

 

I was going to reply to the post you made before this one but didn't want to quote so much material.

 

I don't care for men who are blatant with their porn use, just because he wants to look at it shouldn't also mean that he also gets the right to rub my nose in it. However, if you get to the point with a guy that you're engaging in convo's with him like the last post to AAlike.. the relationship is going to be toast.

 

I think there needs to be some balance, some acceptance of men's visual nature that's also coupled with the fact that porn or even simply nude pics of beautful women are so easily gotten, a single click of the mouse, it's not like the old days when men had to actively seek out adult book stores and make an effort to get ahold of X rated material. Of course people are going to be tempted to click that link that promises "naked celebs" or similar such offerings.

 

I think that men's needs and women's needs emotionally, sexually are vastly different, I think the entire concept of monogamy is becoming more and more unworkable as our life expectancy grows..

 

I've decided to handle the problem by no longer engaging in exclusive, monogamous relationships.. the prince isn't coming, anybody I hook up with will be more than likely using a variety of mediums to satisfy himself with sexually, including openly bedding other women, the difference the next time around will be that I will also retain the option to have other relationships, to get my emotional, sexual needs met from more than one source. There won't be any bullshiat vows, no promises of loyalty or fidelity expected... or given.

 

Buying into an idea that monogamy means that he'll "only have eyes for you"

is kind of like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. Becoming down right rabid on the subject of porn, using net nanny and all these other spyware programs and such.. I cannot imagine living that way.

[missdependant]

I can't believe people are still wasting time debating this subject! 29 pages later, and this thread is still just a bunch of crying and complaining.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just agree to disagree?

 

No one's mind is going to change here. Some people like it, some people don't.

 

Solution: Date someone with the same views as you. Let everyone else live their life however the hell they want to.

[Jersey Shortie]

I never understood why people come onto a topic and complain about people actually talking about it, regardless of the number of pages. That's what a message board is for. If *you* don't want to discuss this topic, then don't. It's rather simple. No one needs another poster to tell them what they should be discussing and how many pages it should or shouldn't be.

 

Buying into an idea that monogamy means that he'll "only have eyes for you" is kind of like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. Becoming down right rabid on the subject of porn, using net nanny and all these other spyware programs and such.. I cannot imagine living that way.

 

I don't think alot of people could imagine living like you either Soserious. You went through something horribly crappy and to me it sounds like you have all but given up. I don't expect a man to never ever look at another woman again. But I do expect self control that seems to have become obsolete when it comes to anything sexual. I don't eat cheese cake everyday and I don't take out my emotional feelings on my guy because I use self control. I ask that men d othe same instead of pandering to the lowest common denominator in themselves and saying "oh well, I'm a guy. That means i can do x,y and z".

[420honey]

We watch porn together. Sometimes I watch it alone, sometimes he watches it alone. He doesn't have time to go to the strip club often, but we went together a few weeks ago. It was fun. I guess I'm not jealous or insecure though...so neither situations bother me. It's JUST nudity.

 

In our society we view pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing, when we should embrace it. On public television they show images of bloodied up, battered, dead bodies. Our society has become so desensitized that we feel a naked body is more corrupt than violence and gore. And we work harder to censor nudity than we do to censor images and videos of violence. We put movies in the theaters that are nothing but torment and torture, blood and gore...and yet we shun the porn industry. Is that not a bit hypocritical? I'd personally rather look at a naked body and/or porn/strippers than a pile of corpses from the holocaust, or someone being tortured in a chamber.

 

I could give a rat's ass if one enjoys being naked and another individual enjoys watching. It's their prerogative for one. And for another, I'd rather be around someone who is comfortable with their sexuality, surroundings, self, etc. Not only that, but you can't control what people find appealing or pleasurable. You can tell them not to do it...but who really listens when they're told not to do something that feels good? Sort of like when churches tell youth not to have sex...and they do it anyway. Or when your parents tell you not to take candy from the jar, and you do anyway. It just makes it that much more sinful...and from what I've learned in almost 30 years of being alive, sinful is FUN.

[Jersey Shortie]

Who in society views pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing??? We seem to view pleasurable sexuality as the be all and end all of justifyable actions. It feels good to you? Then do it. It's your "sexuality". You're just being "Sexual"...blah blah balh...more hyperbole bs talk. I am all for being sexual and exploring that but when did we come to a point that sexualiyt was rapped in popping in a porn movie or going to view strippers? That's true sexuality? That's exploring it and being daring? Sounds pretty lame, pre-discribed and more voyeristic then really living life to me. There is a difference between having pleasure and being sexual to what today the world has become.

 

As for violence vs porn, I personally see a huge difference between watching a movie showcasing the actual real life travesties of the holocust compared to something like a porno. And no, I don't find that hypocrtical in the least. Your one sentence makes it sound like people are getting off to the images of a naked "pile of corpses" and saying that naked stripeprs and porn are the same thing. Wrong. As for overt violence all around and bloody movies, I do agree that those are distructive as well. But far fewer men want to act those out then men that do actually want to act out porn movies. There is a different straosphere that makes a porno a porno and a movie about violence and movie about violance. they don't play on the same exact human responses and interactions that you are trying to force for comparisons. Those comparisons don't really work that well.

[420honey]

Who in society views pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing??? We seem to view pleasurable sexuality as the be all and end all of justifyable actions. It feels good to you? Then do it. It's your "sexuality". You're just being "Sexual"...blah blah balh...more hyperbole bs talk. I am all for being sexual and exploring that but when did we come to a point that sexualiyt was rapped in popping in a porn movie or going to view strippers? That's true sexuality? That's exploring it and being daring? Sounds pretty lame, pre-discribed and more voyeristic then really living life to me. There is a difference between having pleasure and being sexual to what today the world has become.

 

As for violence vs porn, I personally see a huge difference between watching a movie showcasing the actual real life travesties of the holocust compared to something like a porno. And no, I don't find that hypocrtical in the least. Your one sentence makes it sound like people are getting off to the images of a naked "pile of corpses" and saying that naked stripeprs and porn are the same thing. Wrong. As for overt violence all around and bloody movies, I do agree that those are distructive as well. But far fewer men want to act those out then men that do actually want to act out porn movies. There is a different straosphere that makes a porno a porno and a movie about violence and movie about violance. they don't play on the same exact human responses and interactions that you are trying to force for comparisons. Those comparisons don't really work that well.

 

Obviously YOU view pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing if you're trying to dog on people who's main pleasure is voyeurism.

 

I'm not about to sit here and argue with some young child about this. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. You're just going to argue with everyone and get offended by anyone who comes on here and says a strip club or porn is enjoyable anyway...and sweetie, the sex industry isn't going anywhere, so you may as well stop wasting your breath.

 

PS. There is such a thing as spell check.

[Jersey Shortie]

Obviously YOU view pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing if you're trying to dog on people who's main pleasure is voyeurism.

 

 

I view having pleasure through sex as bad because I think watching porn or strippers really isn't as innovative as some try to pass off as? How does that make any sense whatso ever?

 

What I question is ideas that popping in a video of other people having sex or going to a strip club is really as innovative and a form of free expression that some people want to pretend it is. It's really about conforming to a stereotypical idea bout sexuality. That's not really getting intouch with your sexuality or really about expressing it in a way as an individual as it is conforming to the mainstream ideal about what is thought to be sexy.

 

 

I'm not about to sit here and argue with some young child about this. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.

 

Yes, we are both entitle to our opinion in the matter. However, neither one of us is entitlted in demeaning the other with references such as " I'm not about to sit here and argue with some young child"..or me saying "I'm not going to sit here and listen to some old crone'.

 

...and sweetie, the sex industry isn't going anywhere, so you may as well stop wasting your breath.

 

 

 

I love when women start using the words "Sweetie" or "hun" in these type of posts because it tells you right there how much you get under their skin.

 

I digress. I never said the sex industry was going anywhere, that doesn't mean we should all sit around playing with ourselves like monkies instead of living engaged lives. frankly, that's what its come to today. People rather live their lives through a computer or tv screeen then really engage in life. I think it's sad and as far from truly exploring sexuailty as we can possibly get.

 

It's like the idea with all this modern technology should make us more connected. Phones, text, computers...etc etc.. the truth is it makes us more disconnected. I think it's the same for such sex practices with it being so easy to get online. It doesn't make us more sexual and more open minded. I think it makes us less of both.

 

 

PS. There is such a thing as spell check.

 

You're thrid snarky response in one post. I must have really bothered you.

[sally4sara]

In our society we view pleasurable sexuality as a negative thing, when we should embrace it. On public television they show images of bloodied up, battered, dead bodies. Our society has become so desensitized that we feel a naked body is more corrupt than violence and gore. And we work harder to censor nudity than we do to censor images and videos of violence. We put movies in the theaters that are nothing but torment and torture, blood and gore...and yet we shun the porn industry. Is that not a bit hypocritical? I'd personally rather look at a naked body and/or porn/strippers than a pile of corpses from the holocaust, or someone being tortured in a chamber.

 

I could give a rat's ass if one enjoys being naked and another individual enjoys watching. It's their prerogative for one. And for another, I'd rather be around someone who is comfortable with their sexuality, surroundings, self, etc. Not only that, but you can't control what people find appealing or pleasurable. You can tell them not to do it...but who really listens when they're told not to do something that feels good? Sort of like when churches tell youth not to have sex...and they do it anyway. Or when your parents tell you not to take candy from the jar, and you do anyway. It just makes it that much more sinful...and from what I've learned in almost 30 years of being alive, sinful is FUN.

 

I'm having trouble understanding the correlation.

 

I do see where it would be MORE disturbing for men to pay money and become sexually aroused by a pile of dead bloodied bodies than some jiggling tah-tahs. It WOULD be a HUGE problem if your partner was turning down sex with you so he could rub one out to a pile of dead bodies; even more than it would be if it was just "Chesty LaRue Does the Do". It WOULD be a much bigger issue if they were sneaking around behind their spouses back to go to places featuring a pile of dead bodies rather than a porn or dancers.

I would be upset if my partner spent a few hundred of our dollars on lap dances, but I would be horrified if it was spent on rolling around with a corpse.

 

Porn and violence do intrigue people when you think of both as just voyerism. Only one of these, however, is used as a sexual substitute by some people.

 

We hope anyway!

 

The only point I have to make to Jersey is about her wish for men to practise self control. I get what you're saying about how if he puts it off till when his partner is available and all but.....

Some times I don't feel well, I don't have time, or I have already fallen asleep and must be up early. I walk in my sleep so I'm not always co-opporative when woken from deep sleep. I don't care if he looks at some Suicide Girls pics for his needs on the occasion.

When my partner was 15 he had an "incident" where one of his testicles rapidly and painfully swelled up. He was told to make sure he does rub one out daily by a doctor. I didn't know if you were aware that masterbation isn't just a frivolous pursuit. Did you know about this?

[samspade]

I would be upset if my partner spent a few hundred of our dollars on lap dances, but I would be horrified if it was spent on rolling around with a corpse.

 

This is by far the most entertaining quote of the day around here.

[Jersey Shortie]

That line is entertaining.

 

 

The only point I have to make to Jersey is about her wish for men to practise self control. I get what you're saying about how if he puts it off till when his partner is available and all but.....

Some times I don't feel well, I don't have time, or I have already fallen asleep and must be up early. I walk in my sleep so I'm not always co-opporative when woken from deep sleep. I don't care if he looks at some Suicide Girls pics for his needs on the occasion.

When my partner was 15 he had an "incident" where one of his testicles rapidly and painfully swelled up. He was told to make sure he does rub one out daily by a doctor. I didn't know if you were aware that masterbation isn't just a frivolous pursuit. Did you know about this?

 

I don't think masterbations is a frivolous pursuit at all. And no your partner isn't always ready the same time yuo are but I don't base my desires and actions the second my partner isn't there to meet them. And I know my emotions can run just as deeply as a man's sexual desire.

[AAlike]

I view having pleasure through sex as bad because I think watching porn or strippers really isn't as innovative as some try to pass off as? How does that make any sense whatso ever?

 

What I question is ideas that popping in a video of other people having sex or going to a strip club is really as innovative and a form of free expression that some people want to pretend it is. It's really about conforming to a stereotypical idea bout sexuality. That's not really getting intouch with your sexuality or really about expressing it in a way as an individual as it is conforming to the mainstream ideal about what is thought to be sexy.

 

What??!? "innovative"?!??! since when is that what "you question"??

 

I would completely agree with that whole second paragraph - especially strip clubs - but do you really believe that all you were trying to prove is that porn was boring?

[normal]

Why? We always say men are "visual" and women are "emotional". If it's not okay for a woman to act on her emotional whim why is oaky if men act on their visual sexual whims?

 

 

Vision and emotion are two completely different ballparks.

And why is watching porn a big deal?

It's not like your partner is cheating on you by WATCHING a video.

[AAlike]

The only point I have to make to Jersey is about her wish for men to practise self control. I get what you're saying about how if he puts it off till when his partner is available and all but.....

Some times I don't feel well, I don't have time, or I have already fallen asleep and must be up early. I walk in my sleep so I'm not always co-opporative when woken from deep sleep. I don't care if he looks at some Suicide Girls pics for his needs on the occasion.

 

this is a very good paragraph to illustrate what I am trying to say. and I'm assuming that him fulfilling these "needs" in this manner on occasion does not make you feel slighted by said Suicide Girls, correct?

 

I'm assuming in this situation, Jersey, that you would suggest that either A) the man should simply wait until his GF is ready, or more likely B) if the man elects to pleasure himself, he needs to be thinking of his GF.

[sally4sara]

this is a very good paragraph to illustrate what I am trying to say. and I'm assuming that him fulfilling these "needs" in this manner on occasion does not make you feel slighted by said Suicide Girls, correct?

 

I'm assuming in this situation, Jersey, that you would suggest that either A) the man should simply wait until his GF is ready, or more likely B) if the man elects to pleasure himself, he needs to be thinking of his GF.

 

No, I am not slighted by SG so long as A) I truly am unavailable, and B) he didn't feign disinterest in my advances prior to meeting his needs in this way.

 

I don't assume, but I'll ask:

 

Jersey,

 

Isn't it just a bit possible that the entirety of masculine entitlement issues has biased you to the point of extremism? Maybe it isn't always a flagrant disrespect and a willful lack of control for every guy every time, but rather the gender contention you've experienced personally has lead you to be completely unyielding on this subject?

If AAlike's assumption is pretty spot on then each guy would require his partner to pose for some nudie pics and make some home porn with him. And..........if ALL porn is disparaging to women then how could you advocate that they co-opporate?

I know I'm glad my exes don't all have pics and movies of me!

[sally4sara]

Vision and emotion are two completely different ballparks.

And why is watching porn a big deal?

It's not like your partner is cheating on you by WATCHING a video.

 

And men are a different gender than women.......I'm not getting the point of why Jersey's analogy is difficult for you.

 

If you are a guy and your GF out of the blue, decided to make a porno of herself masturbating and put it on her web page because she was feeling ugly and wanted compliments from strangers it would be an emotional action. Would it be okay? It's not like she's having sex with the viewers, right?

Sure she could've come to her BF and shared her emotions and the needs they create within her, but she didn't and oh well!

[normal]

And men are a different gender than women.......I'm not getting the point of why Jersey's analogy is difficult for you.

 

If you are a guy and your GF out of the blue, decided to make a porno of herself masturbating and put it on her web page because she was feeling ugly and wanted compliments from strangers it would be an emotional action. Would it be okay? It's not like she's having sex with the viewers, right?

Sure she could've come to her BF and shared her emotions and the needs they create within her, but she didn't and oh well!

 

I am a girl, and we both watch porn.

I've never had the desire to show myself off to other people, but if I did I doubt he would care.

We are in a very loving, open, honest and trusting relationship...

and he's never been put off by my sexual desires or fantasies.

We've been involved with other couples sexually, and it was equally enjoyable for both of us.

I don't feel that's much different than if I WERE to put my videos on the web or something.

Fortunately, jealousy doesn't play a big role in our relationship.

We're both comfortable with ourselves and neither of us are very insecure.

Especially about sexual matters.

[sally4sara]

I am a girl, and we both watch porn.

I've never had the desire to show myself off to other people, but if I did I doubt he would care.

We are in a very loving, open, honest and trusting relationship...

and he's never been put off by my sexual desires or fantasies.

We've been involved with other couples sexually, and it was equally enjoyable for both of us.

I don't feel that's much different than if I WERE to put my videos on the web or something.

Fortunately, jealousy doesn't play a big role in our relationship.

We're both comfortable with ourselves and neither of us are very insecure.

Especially about sexual matters.

 

You're buying into the shame game played on women when it comes to this subject.

I'm glad you and your partner are so well matched that your sexual desires don't push either of you out of your comfort zone. I too enjoy some non-mainstream sexual entertainment and experimentation. It doesn't mean everyone needs to be okay with all my activities. It doesn't guarantee that if they don't like every sexual flavor under the sun, they must be jealous, insecure, prudish, pent-up, repressed, or whatever you feel you and your partner's activities make the two of you for participating in them.

These are the assumptions used toward women to make them ashamed of their personal preferences.

There is a shame game that gets run on men too. But you're using the fact that you and your partner do XYZ, to imply YOU are not jealous and insecure. This statement is a loaded one because it also implies that women who aren't COOL like you, are jealous and insecure.

[normal]

Why does everything I post have to turn into an argument and get completely twisted around on me?

I simply made the point that we are fortunate not to have jealousy issues flooding our relationship...and yes we ARE fortunate (since when is that a bad thing?).

How you got the idea that I'm belittling insecure women is beyond me.

Not once did I say everyone should be okay with porn and strippers...and if they're not, then they're not "cool like me".

On that same note, I shouldn't be made to feel guilty for what I PERSONALLY find enjoyable sexually...neither should anyone else.

[sally4sara]

Why does everything I post have to turn into an argument and get completely twisted around on me?

I simply made the point that we are fortunate not to have jealousy issues flooding our relationship...and yes we ARE fortunate (since when is that a bad thing?).

How you got the idea that I'm belittling insecure women is beyond me.

Not once did I say everyone should be okay with porn and strippers...and if they're not, then they're not "cool like me".

On that same note, I shouldn't be made to feel guilty for what I PERSONALLY find enjoyable sexually...neither should anyone else.

 

I never said you should feel ashamed of your preferences.

 

Go back and read what you posted.

You make comment that gives hint to how freely sexual you and your partner's sexual activities are even beyond the simple use of porn or visits to strip clubs. And then comment on how these things are part of you and your partner's menu due to not being insecure or jealous.

 

Tell me how you cannot see what your statement implies?

 

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm sorry you hear yelling when you read my type; emotional content doesn't carry through in text.

[Jersey Shortie]

What??!? "innovative"?!??! since when is that what "you question"??

 

I would completely agree with that whole second paragraph - especially strip clubs - but do you really believe that all you were trying to prove is that porn was boring?

 

I never said porn was boring. What I did say that it's not really this great and different form of sexual expressing that people try to ply it off as. if people were really about exploring their personal sexual expressing, they wouldn't feel the need to copy what they see in the "movies". I don't really think porn is all that innovative, new or even sexually wild and expressive. It's pretty mundane with teh same interaction jsut different faces. I don't think porn is about celebrating sexuality. I actually think it hinders it because peole buy into a narrow ideal of it through porn.

 

Vision and emotion are two completely different ballparks.

And why is watching porn a big deal?

It's not like your partner is cheating on you by WATCHING a video.

 

Why are they two different things? We always say men are "visual" and women are "emotional". I don't think the yare different at all. Men don't like it when women don't control their emotions and women dont like it when men don't control their own emotions when it comes to sexuality. it really breaks down to the same thing.

 

Why isn't porn a big deal? Here you have a medium that overall I personally think is degrading to women and pretty much showcases the same exact stereotypes women try to fight. I think it's sad we live in a world where men still look at the same type of girls, same age bracket of girls from 12-70 while they live a life with a woman that actually will grow old with him and love him. A nice thank you for baring a man's children and giving him your life.

 

Bye the way normal, just because you acccept these things in your relationship doesn't mean you aren't jealous or insecure. Those are normal human feelings and I don't believe anyone that ever says they never feel those things.

 

Jersey,

 

Isn't it just a bit possible that the entirety of masculine entitlement issues has biased you to the point of extremism? Maybe it isn't always a flagrant disrespect and a willful lack of control for every guy every time, but rather the gender contention you've experienced personally has lead you to be completely unyielding on this subject?

If AAlike's assumption is pretty spot on then each guy would require his partner to pose for some nudie pics and make some home porn with him. And..........if ALL porn is disparaging to women then how could you advocate that they co-opporate?

I know I'm glad my exes don't all have pics and movies of me!

 

Well I do think men have alot of entitlement issues and it's frustrating because all they want to do is shrug their shulders and say too bad you deal with it and walk away. They don't really seem to give a ****. As logn as they can still have their porn that's what matters to them.

 

As for your second part of thequestion. I think "porn" made for two people tobe viewed by two people is different then porn made for the masses. If you really dont' see the difference, I would question you.

[sally4sara]

As for your second part of thequestion. I think "porn" made for two people tobe viewed by two people is different then porn made for the masses. If you really dont' see the difference, I would question you.

 

Out of all the different varieties of porn out there, I don't know what qualifies as this to you. I am sincerely intrigued.

What is Jersey approved porn and where can I get me some?

[Jersey Shortie]

They even have one in Red since you're so far up the right wing you couldn't turn blue in the face if you held your breath. "Anybody with a sexuality is the Devil!" - JerseyShortie.

 

Are you sure you don't have one of those up yours right now? Way to come off like a little whiney baby Champ.

 

Out of all the different varieties of porn out there, I don't know what qualifies as this to you. I am sincerely intrigued.

What is Jersey approved porn and where can I get me some?

 

I think what happens between two people that stays between two people within a relationship is vastly different then what happens in a porn flick. Come on, you seriously don't understand that?

[sally4sara]

I think what happens between two people that stays between two people within a relationship is vastly different then what happens in a porn flick. Come on, you seriously don't understand that?

 

Don't dodge me Jersey, I'm asking YOUR opinion of acceptable porn for couples. I know what my partner and I do. I know where to find porn similar to what we do.

I'm asking you to clarify your statement of what is acceptable porn since you don't suggest it best for each couple to degrade the female partner to create a more personal version of mainstream porn for the male partner's use.

[Jersey Shortie]

I answered your question Sally. What exactly have I dodged? As I stated, this being my third time stating this, there is a HUGE difference between what you do with your partner in a personal relationship then what goes on between two people doing a porno. There is a huge difference between a man taping *his* lady and later using it for his pleasure then there is a man watching other women and getting off to other women. That's my opinion and it's not going to change any more then yours is. But don't accuse me of not answering your quesiton just because you don't like the response when I answered it three times already. And yes, I still think mainstream porn is degrading to women.

[Jersey Shortie]

But at the end of the day, most men will continue to go to strip clubs and view porn and think about banging the girl down the street or whatever. Because that's what matters to men.

 

And when we all hit 60, as women, we can watch the men we thought loved us and at one time thought we were sexy and special oggle and lear at women not even half their age because again, that's what really matter to most men. Or so it seems how it is in today's world.