Owl Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Reggie, that's where we have different views. You see...I don't think you're considering the sheer amount of "compartmentalization" that WS's go through. The affair is their focus, to be sure. And they've got all of that piled into an "affair box". Everything they feel, they do...it's all there. Then they've got their "marriage box"...which is completely seperated and distant from the affair. When they're dealing with affair issues, they completely ignore the affair box. When they're doing affair things...the marriage box is the one that's dusty on the shelf. That's why the love is still there...but during the time they're focusing on their affair...they completely disassociate themselves from the marriage. And when they're with their spouse...they disassociate themselves from the affair. My wife still loved me during her affair. But when she was talking with OM...she wasn't LETTING herself think about that love she felt for me. When I was in the room, she couldn't let herself think about OM, or she'd have been busted a lot sooner.
Owl Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Owl, I doubt your wife loved you when she was with another guy. They stop loving the Bs when they are involved with someone else. Another way to look at this too...this isn't a "light switch". Its more like a dimmer switch. As the love grows for the OP...the love fades for the BS. The longer it goes on...the more I'd agree with you that the love goes away. With the understanding that at some point, most WS's also get to a point where they like the balance between the two...where they can cake eat and have the exact amount of love from and for each that they want. This isn't an on/off thing. It's a process.
Author confusedinkansas Posted April 10, 2009 Author Posted April 10, 2009 To me, when people are out there having affairs what they are saying is that "it's all about me" the sex itself to me is immaterial.. the days,weeks, months or even years of lying, the time factor... when you're conducting an affair you're stealing time away from your spouse, kids, job, extended family, friends. In many cases you're using a disproportionate share of family fiscal resources as well.QUOTE] Pahleezzee...Taking time away! That's a good one. How about this scenario....H plays golf every single saturday morning & sunday morning. What's the W supposed to do...clean house, do laundry. Then he chooses to go to the bar for the rest of the day...Ok now what. He is taking time away too...But I'll bet I'll get an arguement here that Playing Golf all the time isn't a problem! But having an affair is. OWL: Exactly..The marriage "box" is totally separate from the affair. I think you have a very good point when you say that "your wife still loved you during the affair...but when she was talking with the OM she wasn't letting herself think about that love she felt for you"....That is how it feels. You separate the two.
stampdaddy Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Reggie, that's where we have different views. You see...I don't think you're considering the sheer amount of "compartmentalization" that WS's go through. The affair is their focus, to be sure. And they've got all of that piled into an "affair box". Everything they feel, they do...it's all there. Then they've got their "marriage box"...which is completely seperated and distant from the affair. When they're dealing with affair issues, they completely ignore the affair box. When they're doing affair things...the marriage box is the one that's dusty on the shelf. That's why the love is still there...but during the time they're focusing on their affair...they completely disassociate themselves from the marriage. And when they're with their spouse...they disassociate themselves from the affair. My wife still loved me during her affair. But when she was talking with OM...she wasn't LETTING herself think about that love she felt for me. When I was in the room, she couldn't let herself think about OM, or she'd have been busted a lot sooner. as you indicated in the thread that followed this one: TIME.. after time as the love grows for the OP, as the "newness" of the affair turns into the next stage, and the love is actually love, the "marriage box" turns into about the size of a match box at best....
stampdaddy Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 To me, when people are out there having affairs what they are saying is that "it's all about me" the sex itself to me is immaterial.. the days,weeks, months or even years of lying, the time factor... when you're conducting an affair you're stealing time away from your spouse, kids, job, extended family, friends. In many cases you're using a disproportionate share of family fiscal resources as well.QUOTE] Pahleezzee...Taking time away! That's a good one. How about this scenario....H plays golf every single saturday morning & sunday morning. What's the W supposed to do...clean house, do laundry. Then he chooses to go to the bar for the rest of the day...Ok now what. He is taking time away too...But I'll bet I'll get an arguement here that Playing Golf all the time isn't a problem! But having an affair is. OWL: Exactly..The marriage "box" is totally separate from the affair. I think you have a very good point when you say that "your wife still loved you during the affair...but when she was talking with the OM she wasn't letting herself think about that love she felt for you"....That is how it feels. You separate the two. funny that you mention that: I have ALWAYS had a problem with these kinda fellas.... And I have known a hundred of them. NO, not as bad as an Affair, but a close 2nd in my book.
soserious1 Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 To me, when people are out there having affairs what they are saying is that "it's all about me" the sex itself to me is immaterial.. the days,weeks, months or even years of lying, the time factor... when you're conducting an affair you're stealing time away from your spouse, kids, job, extended family, friends. In many cases you're using a disproportionate share of family fiscal resources as well.QUOTE] Pahleezzee...Taking time away! That's a good one. How about this scenario....H plays golf every single saturday morning & sunday morning. What's the W supposed to do...clean house, do laundry. Then he chooses to go to the bar for the rest of the day...Ok now what. He is taking time away too...But I'll bet I'll get an arguement here that Playing Golf all the time isn't a problem! But having an affair is. OWL: Exactly..The marriage "box" is totally separate from the affair. I think you have a very good point when you say that "your wife still loved you during the affair...but when she was talking with the OM she wasn't letting herself think about that love she felt for you"....That is how it feels. You separate the two. If golf or another hobby becomes excessive, then a couple can negotiate, can bring the issue to couple's therapy etc, ultimately if there is no compromise the couple can decide to divorce. Nobody sits at home being a submissive dutiful lil'l domestic slave to a repeatedly inconsiderate, selfish spouse unless they CHOOSE to do so. Btw, last time I checked, I can't catch HIV,Hep B or C or other STD's from a partner who golfs too much
stampdaddy Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 If golf or another hobby becomes excessive, then a couple can negotiate, can bring the issue to couple's therapy etc, ultimately if there is no compromise the couple can decide to divorce. Nobody sits at home being a submissive dutiful lil'l domestic slave to a repeatedly inconsiderate, selfish spouse unless they CHOOSE to do so. Btw, last time I checked, I can't catch HIV,Hep B or C or other STD's from a partner who golfs too much No, but have you ever gotten the "yips" or God forbid, the "shanks".. It's HORRIBLE
angie2443 Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 funny that you mention that: I have ALWAYS had a problem with these kinda fellas.... And I have known a hundred of them. NO, not as bad as an Affair, but a close 2nd in my book. Yes, I agree it is almost just as bad as an affair. towards the beginning of my marriage, my husband started playing an on-line game. After a while, he would spend about 5 hours per night on this game. The time that we spent talking, laughing, doing other things together was bieng replaced by the game. If he kept with the game, it would've dammaged our marriage beyond the point of no return.
Reggie Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Yes, I agree it is almost just as bad as an affair. towards the beginning of my marriage, my husband started playing an on-line game. After a while, he would spend about 5 hours per night on this game. The time that we spent talking, laughing, doing other things together was bieng replaced by the game. If he kept with the game, it would've dammaged our marriage beyond the point of no return. I ain't just the guys doing this stuff. Many women neglect their marriages.
angie2443 Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Another way to look at this too...this isn't a "light switch". Its more like a dimmer switch. As the love grows for the OP...the love fades for the BS. The longer it goes on...the more I'd agree with you that the love goes away. With the understanding that at some point, most WS's also get to a point where they like the balance between the two...where they can cake eat and have the exact amount of love from and for each that they want. This isn't an on/off thing. It's a process. This makes sense to me as does the compartmentalization idea. I'm having a hard time understanding the idea that you can love someone you compartmentalizise, though. I think that to compartmentalizise someone, you have to lower them in your eyes. I think maybe the love you have for them would then be less than the love you had for someone that you respected as an equal. Maybe in time you would love/regard them in the same way that many love/regard their pets. Many people care for their pets but they are certainly not the first priority in their lives, and if they had to get rid of their pets for any reason, they would be sad for a little while but would soon get over it. It's confusing to me and even though I've thought about ever since my husband's EA, I still can't figure it out.
Bluebird In My Heart Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Another way to look at this too...this isn't a "light switch". Its more like a dimmer switch. As the love grows for the OP...the love fades for the BS. The longer it goes on...the more I'd agree with you that the love goes away. With the understanding that at some point, most WS's also get to a point where they like the balance between the two...where they can cake eat and have the exact amount of love from and for each that they want. This isn't an on/off thing. It's a process. Ugh. I think that's true! You know, I never understood it...how can someone have an affair, "fall in love" with the affair partner...and not want to make it a proper relationship? Of course, many reasons for that...but I think you hit the nail on the head there, Owl. It's kind of like there is a tipping point that occurs where the WS just turns into an Official Cake Eater. I never read anything that put it quite so succintly. It begs the question: when is the tipping point activated? Is it because the decision is just too difficult to make...so the WS simply avoids the issue...and then, if no action is demanded from either the spouse, or the affair partner, status quo reigns? I also wanted to ask: what about the 'broken window' theory? Once the Cake Eater stance is taken, does it then become easier to make additional "mistakes"? I really think affairs reveal so much about human nature. Good, bad and ugly.
stampdaddy Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 It begs the question: when is the tipping point activated? Is it because the decision is just too difficult to make...so the WS simply avoids the issue...and then, if no action is demanded from either the spouse, or the affair partner, status quo reigns? I know it "reigned" in my situation, for over 4 years... But now, it just "rains".. H is divorcing her, and I don't think I can get over being the "cake"
Reggie Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 I agree ther is a devaluing of the BS going on with this compartmentalization thing. Perhaps it is just semantics or maybe there is a gradual progression where the Ws , initially, has so9me feelings (love?) for the Bs , despite starting the affair, and those feeling diminish as the affair progresses. I am pretty sure my XW wanted to remain married and just continue to see this guy. It may have, eventually gotten to the point where she wanted out , altogether. But, in looking at the attendant hateful behavior associated with her cheating, I cannot imagine anyone observing it mistaking her feelings for me as love. Each case must vary. The cognitive dissonance these folks that cheat feel makes them brutal , sometimes, so brutal that no one would say there is any love.
Owl Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 I don't think any of us sitting on the outside could honestly tell you that what she felt for you was love or not, Reggie. We're not privy to all that went on in your marriage, prior to, during, or after the affair. You're the only one who can judge whether or not your wife truly loved you or not. Just as you can't make that determination for me, or anyone else. You can describe the actions of having an affair as ones that aren't "loving" in and of themselves...but beyond that, the best you can do is SPECULATE on what the WS was truly feeling for their BS. Without having been party to the marriage and all that went on...its just speculation. But I'll absolutely take your word for it in your own case. You were the one who was there and saw it all.
Darth Vader Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Clearly.....that wouldn't be the case. I understand that infidelity is grounds for divorce. But, lots of other things are as well. Some of the things he has done, women leave their husbands for WAY less. He stuck it out because he loves me. I stuck it out because I love him. We were raised that divorce isn't the answer. Clearly, we were headed in that direction, but because we persevered, we overcame a lot of obstales & we are both better for it. We're a better married couple & we are better individuals. I asked him about the affair last night. Because after reading some of the posts here (EVERYONE is devistated & scarred for life after an affair) He said this: "I was hurt, not devistated, when I found out. That is old news, water under the bridge. No reason to hash it out again. We're better now & we are moving forward, not looking back" BTW: Looking back would make him have to look at HIS behaviors too. Anyway, If he were still dwelling on this, I would know it. It's always going to be in the back of his mind. Do you sense that it is? Or rather, how would you be able to know such things?
Darth Vader Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 This isn't going to come out right....& I'm sure I'll catch some flack for it....BUT Dexter: Do you ever let anything go? Do you ever let behaviors slide? What, may I ask makes you think she did this TO you? Perhaps she just did it for herself. Selfish, Yep...But something to think about. Are you also asking this question about yourself? This is just something to consider, some people just want a little strange at the expense of their spouse!
Reggie Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 I agree, OWl. There is a ton of projection that goes on here. I think folks that were not given the opportunity to speak their peice to their WS often project their own perception of their own situations into others. I have no way to know what was going on in anyone elses mind or heart. Every situation is different. I had two major surgeries during my XWW's affair. In both, I had to get a friend to drive me to and from the hospital. My sisters flew out to help care for me, as MY WW would do nothing. She never visited me in the hospital or inquired about my condition. So, with all the other crap preceeding the affair, I know there was never any love.
Darth Vader Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Thats just it, I was so insignificant to her that she DID this at all. Oh, but wanted to keep the marriage after she had her fun. 1) by saying she did this TO me isn't really saying she did it intentionally to hurt me or that she was trying to stick it to me. I know that. But even so, it WAS stuck to me nonetheless...maybe indirectly...but I don't care how you slice it. Do I hold on to it for the rest of my life? Nope..thats why I divorced her. Do I hold on to it in a sense that it shapes my way of thinking about how to handle it if it ever happens again...you bet. No woman can ever hurt me again. And again, even though it wasn't your intent, you DID betray him therefore you DID do THAT to him. Oh, but wanted to keep the marriage after she had her fun. I think this is the point people are trying to discuss with you. However, while you were riding your OM, didn't it occur to you in any way that you were destroying your husband further?
Owl Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 I agree, OWl. There is a ton of projection that goes on here. I think folks that were not given the opportunity to speak their peice to their WS often project their own perception of their own situations into others. I have no way to know what was going on in anyone elses mind or heart. Every situation is different. I had two major surgeries during my XWW's affair. In both, I had to get a friend to drive me to and from the hospital. My sisters flew out to help care for me, as MY WW would do nothing. She never visited me in the hospital or inquired about my condition. So, with all the other crap preceeding the affair, I know there was never any love. All of which (rightfully) helped lead up to your conclusion to kick her to the curb after her affair. Had my wife acted THAT coldly to me...we too would be divorced now. In my case, it was less "cold and careless" as it was more "distant and clueless". She was more distracted from me by her affair than she was intentionally hurting me. Now...there were some specific actions that were very deliberate and painful. But nothing of the caliber of what you've experienced.
Darth Vader Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 To me, when people are out there having affairs what they are saying is that "it's all about me" the sex itself to me is immaterial.. the days,weeks, months or even years of lying, the time factor... when you're conducting an affair you're stealing time away from your spouse, kids, job, extended family, friends. In many cases you're using a disproportionate share of family fiscal resources as well.QUOTE] Pahleezzee...Taking time away! That's a good one. How about this scenario....H plays golf every single saturday morning & sunday morning. What's the W supposed to do...clean house, do laundry. Then he chooses to go to the bar for the rest of the day...Ok now what. He is taking time away too...But I'll bet I'll get an arguement here that Playing Golf all the time isn't a problem! But having an affair is. OWL: Exactly..The marriage "box" is totally separate from the affair. I think you have a very good point when you say that "your wife still loved you during the affair...but when she was talking with the OM she wasn't letting herself think about that love she felt for you"....That is how it feels. You separate the two. No, it isn't as bad, because he wasn't exposing you to any STD's while he was playing golf. As far as the golf thing, it sounds like you're still trying to blameshift/justify screwing outside the marriage. Anyway, you could've joined your hubby in a round of golf, even if you didn't like it. Even if you didn't get a drink afterwards. That's what married couples do, they spend time with each other, no matter if they Hate the very thing the other person Loves to do, it's supporting each other and being there with them.
soserious1 Posted April 11, 2009 Posted April 11, 2009 No, it isn't as bad, because he wasn't exposing you to any STD's while he was playing golf. As far as the golf thing, it sounds like you're still trying to blameshift/justify screwing outside the marriage. Anyway, you could've joined your hubby in a round of golf, even if you didn't like it. Even if you didn't get a drink afterwards. That's what married couples do, they spend time with each other, no matter if they Hate the very thing the other person Loves to do, it's supporting each other and being there with them. Well, I think being asked to spend the day rooting around in the bushes to help a man find his balls is a little excessive
Author confusedinkansas Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 Ok - Here's the thing.... I'm not trying to justify why I had the affiar in the first place. Not at all. I am merely pointing out facts in my particular situation. I'm not saying that the way I choose to deal with problems in my marriage were right. No more than anyone making the choice to have an affair that is posting here. I don't think my situation is special.... But, I do know my husband. And, those of you who keep pointing out that he is STILL pondering away & hurting like hell about my affair, 4 years later...You couldn't be further from the truth. He is a guy that lets things 'slide.' Not to say that I didn't pay a huge price & claw my way back so he would trust me...Not that at all. But he is happy & content with the way things are & I guarantee you that the thought never crosses his mind - Unless I bring it up. AND, even if it did, he doesn't let it eat at him. He is a bigger man than that...He is VERY forgiving. On many levels.....even with his friends. I can't remember who pointed out that "Had he had an affair, I would have divorced him"...Wrong again.... because in my opinion some of the things he has done were just as bad...if not worse & just as damaging as my affair was. Again, not to make light of what I did..... No one's perfect. We all make mistakes. Some of us just make bigger ones (depending on who you ask) One person could think an affair is the WORST THING EVER to have to endure in a marriage.....Others may think alcoholism, gaming, golf, etc. are the WORST things ever to happen in a marriage.
Reggie Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 So, what is the issue? Sounds like all is forgiven and you guys have recovered. So, apparently, youknow that it does not always end in divorce. Stats say about 30% remain married.
Author confusedinkansas Posted April 13, 2009 Author Posted April 13, 2009 Posted the question out of curiosity. I still read posts here from time to time & it just seemed to me that there were so many here that have the opinion..............KILL THE ADULTERER..........That I just wondered if there was anyone else out there that had a success story. And as I read - there are still some that can't forgive, forget or get past it. Just proves the point..We're all different And a darn good thing too
Dexter Morgan Posted April 13, 2009 Posted April 13, 2009 I agree...and this is what made me decide to give my H another chance. If he even began to repeat any of his behaviors again - I would be done. There would be no trying on my part at all - not again. I don't doubt you Snow, but mentally put yourself in that position, and if, for example, 3 years from now you find out of a quick short one night stand...would you really be done? i'd hope you would be. You don't deserve to have to put up with that.
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