Seeing Red - Earlier Topic on Female Orgasms being a must for a male....

[AnthonyF]

I read this topic and got mad.....

 

"I was dating a nice guy 48y.o. I did not have sex with him for 1 month and then we had it for the first time. During sex he was only thinking if I had an orgasm. Of course I did not have it and it had nothing to do with him. I am a normal woman with no hypersexuality. I need to get to know the guy better to do the trick. I feel I need to know if he likes me in a sexual way, what his sexual abilities are and if he is willing and able to do sexual things which I want during sex. If I talk about some of these things during the first sexual encounter I am afraid that he would be scared away from me or/and he would think that i was promiscuous.

 

As a woman, I would like him just enjoy sex for himself and let me do the same. I hate the idea that I need to fake orgasm for him instead of enjoing sex. But I want to have sex with him. I guess if you really want it you can master the fake performance with some practice.

 

Any suggestions?

Why does a man need to spoil sex by telling you that he needs your orgasm as a must?

 

What to do if a man thinks that an orgasm is a must? And you do not want to lose the guy, of course.

 

Is it possible to explain a man that he has unrealistic expectations about female sexuality? I have noticed while watching porno that even females in porno do not do the trick."

 

I thought about it, reread the OP to confirm what the woman was saying. Note this is an older woman (not a young female just getting comfortable with her sexuality) and have gotten more upset with the question and some females' responses.

 

Read the post carefully and you will note what I noted in my response:

 

"So after multiple readings I may finally have it. Are you still dating? First sentence you say "was"... So his performance in bed and hope that you climax turned you off???

 

Why is the idea of having an orgasm after a month of dating, deeming him worthy to have sex with so difficult? Did you set out these ground rules before you went to bed? Is it terrible that he was concerned with your enjoyment and wanted to make sure it "worked"? He liked you in a sexual way to have sex with you, so what was your problem?

 

Is a woman hypersexual because she has an orgasm?

 

Did he actually say that he wants you to have an orgasm, or ask you for directions to get there (ie. what to do)? What a cad? Did you tell him that you are just testing him out, and when you are comfortable with him and the relationship, that you may just be able to orgasm?

 

NEWSFLASH.... Most men want you to have an orgasm.... And what exactly is unrealistic expectations of males? I expect that you ask most men in a committed relationship whether their spouses have orgasms and they will say yes 90% of the time.

 

Hope this explains what us men think."

 

So I ask if I was to re-enter the dating scene (don't plan on it and I'll probably be too old), am I to expect women who:

 

1. Deem it a gift to have sex (note it took a month for the original poster)

2. Then it will extra reward when the woman is comfortable enough to have an orgasm.

 

As I said originally:

 

Put the shoe on the other foot. You have just had a great evening with a guy, had a wonderful orgasm (or two/three) and he is only semi-hard and tells you he doesn't orgasm until he is comfortable and knows he really likes you (nothing against you, your looks, body, expertise, skill)

[bean1]

90% have female spouses that orgasm vaginally? Can you clarify? I sure hope that no man actually believes that.

 

This thread is a bit difficult to read because it is hard to tell what is from the original thread and what is new.

[AnthonyF]

90% have female spouses that orgasm vaginally? Can you clarify? I sure hope that no man actually believes that.

 

This thread is a bit difficult to read because it is hard to tell what is from the original thread and what is new.

 

 

Highlighted and italic is old (copied and pasted). Regular font is new. Again I say read the post. I never said 90% orgasms occur vaginally. If the OP stated "I do not orgasm easily vaginally, told him so, and he continued with no attempt to do what I need to "O", then you are 100% correct".

 

I have said I am no expert on the subject, just I was upset by the Topic and attitude when it was first posted and will say us males are completely dumbfounded and lost when we read this stuff.

[Trialbyfire]

My personal opinion is that if a woman doesn't trust someone enough that she's relaxed enough to have an orgasm, she shouldn't be having sex with the guy. Whether this takes years or 1 date, it's her body and her choice. No one has the right to use your body.

 

Having said that, if a man is unwilling to wait or has different sexual needs, he has the choice to walk. No one's holding a shot-gun to your head, forcing you to stay.

 

No one should ever subvert their needs because of fear of loss. You're only setting yourself up for failure, at least from any long-term viability perspective.

[Groovy]

The first time around can be awkward sometimes. All you can do it let them know that.

[AnthonyF]

My personal opinion is that if a woman doesn't trust someone enough that she's relaxed enough to have an orgasm, she shouldn't be having sex with the guy. Whether this takes years or 1 date, it's her body and her choice. No one has the right to use your body.

 

Having said that, if a man is unwilling to wait or has different sexual needs, he has the choice to walk. No one's holding a shot-gun to your head, forcing you to stay.

 

No one should ever subvert their needs because of fear of loss. You're only setting yourself up for failure, at least from any long-term viability perspective.

 

Again, while you are right, is it a good thing for a mature sexual woman, who can orgasm to have such issues about it? And if with a man who is aware and wants for the woman to have the orgasm at least be told of "her problem" and discuss how it will affect their relationship? Shouldn't she tell what she needs to have an orgasm if it is very important to him.

 

Again read the OP.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Anthony, have you walked in this woman's shoes? Have you experienced what she has experienced sexually, physically, emotionally? Have you lived the same life? Being a man is much different than being a woman.

 

And I do just want to plug in here that the percentage is closer to 30% - orgasming vaginally with ZERO clit stimulation.

 

For some an orgasm is a very personal thing. Guys would see it differently. A woman DOES have to trust the guy 100% and give herself completely to be relaxed enough to be able to orgasm. It's not like, "Oh, this is a gift you have to earn," it's just comfort level. Just like you generally don't try to **** somebody on the first date (gotta build that comfort level), orgasm is just another level of comfort.

 

A woman's life experience can impact her ability to orgasm - A LOT. Not to mention that it is a lot harder for a woman to orgasm than a man. Just like it's easier for a man to get turned on physically.

 

I'm not understanding the "seeing red." What's so upsetting?

[AnthonyF]

Anthony, have you walked in this woman's shoes? Have you experienced what she has experienced sexually, physically, emotionally? Have you lived the same life? Being a man is much different than being a woman.

 

And I do just want to plug in here that the percentage is closer to 30% - orgasming vaginally with ZERO clit stimulation.

 

For some an orgasm is a very personal thing. Guys would see it differently. A woman DOES have to trust the guy 100% and give herself completely to be relaxed enough to be able to orgasm. It's not like, "Oh, this is a gift you have to earn," it's just comfort level. Just like you generally don't try to **** somebody on the first date (gotta build that comfort level), orgasm is just another level of comfort.

 

A woman's life experience can impact her ability to orgasm - A LOT. Not to mention that it is a lot harder for a woman to orgasm than a man. Just like it's easier for a man to get turned on physically.

 

I'm not understanding the "seeing red." What's so upsetting?

 

I am seeing red, because you and many others do not read the OP. I am understanding, trust me (and older so some experience). What I said is read the words said and the issues. I have never talked about vaginal or clit stimulation and neither did the OP, yet you are at least the third person to bring this up. What I commented on was the attitude conveyed in the OP.

 

A 48 yo male very much wanted to please the female, and yes that included her having an orgasm. This was after a month of dating. Even though he tried and seemed hellbent, she was not giving it up (reading into the OP). She never states that they discussed this or that she has problems and she was uncomfortable giving away her secrets. She never even says that she told him so, when he was working so hard:laugh:. She just commented that it was a tunroff. That I find offensive.

 

If a woman can masturbate to orgasm and have them, why can't she in an relationship with communication have them?

 

Put the shoe on the other foot. Would you be happy if that was a man's attitude?

 

That was the premise and why I saw red.

[bean1]

I have never talked about vaginal or clit stimulation and neither did the OP, yet you are at least the third person to bring this up. What I commented on was the attitude conveyed in the OP.

 

NEWSFLASH.... Most men want you to have an orgasm.... And what exactly is unrealistic expectations of males? I expect that you ask most men in a committed relationship whether their spouses have orgasms and they will say yes 90% of the time.

 

This is YOUR writing and this is why people have made those comments.

[serial muse]

It would probably help if you linked to the OP, AnthonyF. Since both the OP you're referring to and your reply to it in the other thread are bolded/italicized, it is kind of hard to decipher your post here. I'd like to read the original thread you're referring to, though.

[Trialbyfire]

Again, while you are right, is it a good thing for a mature sexual woman, who can orgasm to have such issues about it? And if with a man who is aware and wants for the woman to have the orgasm at least be told of "her problem" and discuss how it will affect their relationship? Shouldn't she tell what she needs to have an orgasm if it is very important to him.

 

Again read the OP.

I read your OP and have also read it within the context of the original thread. It's obvious what she was trying to communicate and also what you were trying to communicate.

 

What bothered me is your attitude of entitlement over a woman's body, that you deserve access to a woman's body and her thoughts behind it.

 

What bothered me about her attitude was that she would have sex just to keep the man, due to his sense of entitlement.

 

Men can't control a woman's mind or emotions. She's either going to orgasm or she isn't and no amount of skill or communication will make any difference in the world. This isn't about your ego or mad skillz, it's about her comfort level to be able to do so. You cannot force anything.

 

You also need to know that over 60% of women can't orgasm. To me, that's a sad state of affairs. It's one of life's greatest pleasures.

[samspade]

A 48 yo male very much wanted to please the female, and yes that included her having an orgasm. This was after a month of dating. Even though he tried and seemed hellbent, she was not giving it up (reading into the OP). She never states that they discussed this or that she has problems and she was uncomfortable giving away her secrets. She never even says that she told him so, when he was working so hard:laugh:. She just commented that it was a tunroff. That I find offensive.

 

Although I believe in pleasing a woman in bed, there is such a thing as worrying too much about your partner and not enough about your own needs. A guy who is "hellbent" on a female having an orgasm is putting undue pressure on her and himself, not to mention coming across as submissive and needing her approval. Make the sex enjoyable - not work - and the orgasms will come (no pun intended).

[AnthonyF]

I read your OP and have also read it within the context of the original thread. It's obvious what she was trying to communicate and also what you were trying to communicate.

 

What bothered me is your attitude of entitlement over a woman's body, that you deserve access to a woman's body and her thoughts behind it.

 

What bothered me about her attitude was that she would have sex just to keep the man, due to his sense of entitlement.

 

Men can't control a woman's mind or emotions. She's either going to orgasm or she isn't and no amount of skill or communication will make any difference in the world. This isn't about your ego or mad skillz, it's about her comfort level to be able to do so. You cannot force anything.

 

You also need to know that over 60% of women can't orgasm. To me, that's a sad state of affairs. It's one of life's greatest pleasures.

 

Where do you get 60%..... Sounds ridiculously high....

[Trialbyfire]

Where do you get 60%..... Sounds ridiculously high....

Thank you for negating my statistic with condescension, from a position of ignorance...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1878728.htm

 

If it doesn't show up with the statistic, click on the "show transcript" link. Actually, the statistic is that 60 - 70% don't orgasm...

[bean1]

It's true, it's rare for women to actually orgasm aside from clitoral stimulation (and that generally doesn't happen when there is a penis inside her). It just doesn't physically happen. It has nothing to do with love, emotion, connections, blah blah blah - our anatomy just doesn't do it. I would kill to be like a man and be able to have an orgasm everytime during vaginal sex, but it isn't physically possible.

 

A LOT of women fake orgasms during vaginal sex.

[AnthonyF]

Thank you for negating my statistic with condescension, from a position of ignorance...

 

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1878728.htm

 

If it doesn't show up with the statistic, click on the "show transcript" link. Actually, the statistic is that 60 - 70% don't orgasm...

 

 

Here is the original post:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2118427#post2118427

 

As for the article quoted above, this again is vaginal orgasms (not general orgasms). The % of women who do not orgasm has been placed @ 5-15% and a % of that is psychological. That however is not the point of the OP, who can orgasm, just wouldn't, never does the first time and thought only "hypersexual" women did. That to me is an affront to women.

 

If 60%-70% didn't ever orgasm, we'd have many unhappy men and women....

 

Again you have taken it off topic and not addressed the post and questions I had.

[MindoverMatter]

Men can't control a woman's mind or emotions. She's either going to orgasm or she isn't and no amount of skill or communication will make any difference in the world. This isn't about your ego or mad skillz, it's about her comfort level to be able to do so. You cannot force anything.

 

I do think that you can change the level of comfort a person has in bed with skills or/and communication. However, if there is a fundamental, physical reason why someone can't orgasm then nothing asides from surgery (they have something now, when the inner nerves are blocked) nothing will change this.

 

I think the OP in the original thread should have been comfortable enough to talk about her issues with her sex partner, but I can fully understand why a constant question would be a turn-off and might even amount to pressure.

 

Anthony: if you're dating, you can always talk about what you're worried about or what your needs are. It improves your chances to find somebody you are sexually compatible with.

[Trialbyfire]

I do think that you can change the level of comfort a person has in bed with skills or/and communication. However, if there is a fundamental, physical reason why someone can't orgasm then nothing asides from surgery (they have something now, when the inner nerves are blocked) nothing will change this.

 

I think the OP in the original thread should have been comfortable enough to talk about her issues with her sex partner, but I can fully understand why a constant question would be a turn-off and might even amount to pressure.

 

Anthony: if you're dating, you can always talk about what you're worried about or what your needs are. It improves your chances to find somebody you are sexually compatible with.

I think there's an over-emphasis on discussion, when it comes to sex. It's pretty easy to communicate need while having sex, without even talking about it. If someone's giving you pleasure, it should be obvious. If someone tries something you don't want to do, there are ways to handle this without resorting to needless discussion or pressure. Your body language should be able to speak for itself. People talk sex to death... Shaddup and just enjoy!

 

Anthony, as a woman I didn't find that hypersexual comment bothersome. If anything, count me in on hypersexual womanhood!

[AnthonyF]

I think there's an over-emphasis on discussion, when it comes to sex. It's pretty easy to communicate need while having sex, without even talking about it. If someone's giving you pleasure, it should be obvious. If someone tries something you don't want to do, there are ways to handle this without resorting to needless discussion or pressure. Your body language should be able to speak for itself. People talk sex to death... Shaddup and just enjoy!

 

Anthony, as a woman I didn't find that hypersexual comment bothersome. If anything, count me in on hypersexual womanhood!

 

But that is why we are here on this site..... To talk this and relationships to death....

 

As for hypersexual womanhood, I found it sad that this woman thought that having orgasms (or one with a very eager hard working partner) would make her hypersexual.

 

Simply I thought she should have made this clear before they went to bed that an "O' was not in the cards, she liked him and that it will come in time when relaxed and ready to show him what she needed to get it done..... (though I find that very sad)....

[Trialbyfire]

But that is why we are here on this site..... To talk this and relationships to death....

 

As for hypersexual womanhood, I found it sad that this woman thought that having orgasms (or one with a very eager hard working partner) would make her hypersexual.

 

Simply I thought she should have made this clear before they went to bed that an "O' was not in the cards..... (though I find that very sad)....

Clinical discussion between two people who are doing the horizontal boogie, about what they want is such a turn-off. Build the discussion or actions into part of the seduction factor and you'll get better results! If you want her to touch you in a certain way, build it into a fantasy discussion or demonstrate, in a teasing kind of way. This can build anticipation.

 

Well, shaming her by opening a post won't change how she views sex. It sounds to me like she's allowing herself to get into something she's not emotionally prepared for. That he dictates how she NEEDS to react, based on his expectations, would turn me off too.

[AnthonyF]

Clinical discussion between two people who are doing the horizontal boogie, about what they want is such a turn-off. Build the discussion or actions into part of the seduction factor and you'll get better results! If you want her to touch you in a certain way, build it into a fantasy discussion or demonstrate, in a teasing kind of way. This can build anticipation.

 

Well, shaming her by opening a post won't change how she views sex. It sounds to me like she's allowing herself to get into something she's not emotionally prepared for. That he dictates how she NEEDS to react, based on his expectations, would turn me off too.

 

But that is the reason for the post. Maybe both had unrealistic expectations. I don't know them. However it was she who posted here and I who have commented on her post and some what I thought were telling lines and comments.

 

As a male I freely admit I am lost (and that includes being with a loving spouse together for 23 years). I'd be petrified about the dating scene reading the OP and others here.

 

I can read all I want about women, their wants, needs, expectations, listen to Oprah, Dr. Phil, all the self-help books available, become an expert in the kama sutra, the art of seduction... and still be perplexed to no end.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Even though he tried and seemed hellbent, she was not giving it up (reading into the OP).

Uh. You'd have to be a woman to understand, I guess. It wasn't that she was withholding it from him because he didn't deserve it. It just wasn't possible. Quite honestly, it's insanely difficult for me to get off with a partner and I'd say a lot of it has to do with past experience (meaning they wanted it to happen as quickly as it does for THEM and when it didn't they quickly got bored). So I'd say that I have a little bit of a complex. I'm sure with a patient partner I could overcome this, but I think I've just been too nervous with my current BF to really give it a shot. I don't want HIM to feel inadequate and I don't want myself to feel inadequate, either. It makes me feel like I'm broken when they try for a whole 2 mins and give up (not to mention FRUSTRATED!).

 

So rather than judging her when you haven't BEEN her, how about letting it be? You don't have to sleep with her, who cares? Rather than just getting PO'd about it, if this were YOUR partner, why not just talk with her about it? I couldn't imagine my BF getting angry with me about something like this - it would completely turn me off to the idea of sex for a few days.

[AnthonyF]

Uh. You'd have to be a woman to understand, I guess. It wasn't that she was withholding it from him because he didn't deserve it. It just wasn't possible. Quite honestly, it's insanely difficult for me to get off with a partner and I'd say a lot of it has to do with past experience (meaning they wanted it to happen as quickly as it does for THEM and when it didn't they quickly got bored). So I'd say that I have a little bit of a complex. I'm sure with a patient partner I could overcome this, but I think I've just been too nervous with my current BF to really give it a shot. I don't want HIM to feel inadequate and I don't want myself to feel inadequate, either. It makes me feel like I'm broken when they try for a whole 2 mins and give up (not to mention FRUSTRATED!).

 

So rather than judging her when you haven't BEEN her, how about letting it be? You don't have to sleep with her, who cares? Rather than just getting PO'd about it, if this were YOUR partner, why not just talk with her about it? I couldn't imagine my BF getting angry with me about something like this - it would completely turn me off to the idea of sex for a few days.

 

I appreciate the comments and yes you are right. I just was responding to the OP and her comments and words, which I found perplexing and sad and showed a lack of communication.

[SoulSearch_CO]

I appreciate the comments and yes you are right. I just was responding to the OP and her comments and words, which I found perplexing and sad and showed a lack of communication.

Agreed. It seems to be a rash of a disease going around this board.

[bac]

Here is the original post:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2118427#post2118427

 

As for the article quoted above, this again is vaginal orgasms (not general orgasms). The % of women who do not orgasm has been placed @ 5-15% and a % of that is psychological. That however is not the point of the OP, who can orgasm, just wouldn't, never does the first time and thought only "hypersexual" women did. That to me is an affront to women.

 

If 60%-70% didn't ever orgasm, we'd have many unhappy men and women....

 

Again you have taken it off topic and not addressed the post and questions I had.

 

 

The reason why you think this way may be because the women you are with belong to a different ethnic group than me (I am a caucasian). Some other ethnic groups have higher levels of testosterone in blood. It is genetical and normal. The testosterone level is responsible for level of libido, erection, and ability to have orgasms. Other words the more testosterone people have in their system the more their sexual drive and everything else related to sex except the size of penis.