Problems with fiance

[Tomcat33]

And you are ok with him feeling this sense of entitlement to tell you what to do because he is going to marry you?

 

What are you thinking of doing at this point?

 

Have you given some thought to how it's going to pan out when you quit your business?

[sally4sara]

So why dont you go and BE with that MAN instead of preaching about what MEN do and how they feel? Are you a male? If not then stfu. You don't know **** about men except how to wrap your lips around their junk to make them happy. Stop preaching about what a man is or does because you lack the genetic make up and know how.

 

damn boy.....

 

I have asked every man I've had a decent conversation what they consider the main defining quality is that make a man a "real man".

 

I swear, I've asked this question a least a hundred times maybe two. Not even one could come up with something women don't also commonly do or deal with. Try answering it yourself without relying on simple gender comparison. You are not defined by pissing standing up and I am not defined by giving birth. People are not that simple. So try to answer the question yourself.

What is it to be a man?

The only answers I've heard that came close were cheeky, cheap, and unprovable.

 

My point is, neither all men or all women are fully defined by any one thing. Any attempt to do so is bound to offend someone it doesn't apply to. There is absolutely no reason for you to feel justified in being so ugly and derogatory as you are to female time and time again. Why so?

 

In the end, we are suppose to marry someone we accept fully. Her fiancee is not accepting her. Period. Obviously it doesn't just take a bj to make a man happy so stfu.

[dnm]

And you are ok with him feeling this sense of entitlement to tell you what to do because he is going to marry you?

 

What are you thinking of doing at this point?

 

Have you given some thought to how it's going to pan out when you quit your business?

Well, to an extent it is fine, but about this , I don't know.

I'm not thinking about how I'll go about quitting my business, at least not yet.

[RecordProducer]

My friends will obviously take my side.

Dnm, PLEASE read this sentence as many times as you need to realize what you just admitted. If you don't figure it out, I'll gladly explain it to you.

 

because we're going to get married, so we're going to be together all our lives.

The conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the premise.

[dnm]

Dnm, PLEASE read this sentence as many times as you need to realize what you just admitted. If you don't figure it out, I'll gladly explain it to you.

 

The conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from the premise.

Explain it to me. My friends are likely to be biased and will obviously support me. So?

And yes, marriage doesn't last forever in many cases, but nobody walks into it preparing to get divorced !

[RecordProducer]

Explain it to me.

You said "My friends will obviously take my side."

 

So you admit that there is your side vs. his side, i.e., you admit that there is antagonism about this issue. And he is the one who started it by demanding "huge sacrifice" (citing you). And there is NO compromise, honey. You will either stay on your side or move to his side. Doing things HIS way is not a compromise.

 

Next, you said "my friends" which means the people who care about you will accept the side that benefits YOU, not him. If what your fiancé wanted was for your benefit, your friends and family would be on his side. But they would be on yours, which means against him - because he is against you. He is not your friend. And if somebody doesn't have a friendly, sincere advice, but a selfish demand for you, why would you sacrifice for them? To make them happy? Why don't they sacrifice for you? Is their happiness more valuable than yours?

 

If you had a friend who told you "Please don't bring your baby when you come to my house, because I can't have kids and it angers me to see you have a child," would you stay friends with this person? Well, your business is your baby and your fiancé (someone who is supposed to be your best friend) is telling you to give up your baby just because he'd feel better if you did.

[dnm]

You said "My friends will obviously take my side."

 

So you admit that there is your side vs. his side, i.e., you admit that there is antagonism about this issue. And he is the one who started it by demanding "huge sacrifice" (citing you). And there is NO compromise, honey. You will either stay on your side or move to his side. Doing things HIS way is not a compromise.

 

Next, you said "my friends" which means the people who care about you will accept the side that benefits YOU, not him. If what your fiancé wanted was for your benefit, your friends and family would be on his side. But they would be on yours, which means against him - because he is against you. He is not your friend. And if somebody doesn't have a friendly, sincere advice, but a selfish demand for you, why would you sacrifice for them? To make them happy? Why don't they sacrifice for you? Is their happiness more valuable than yours?

 

If you had a friend who told you "Please don't bring your baby when you come to my house, because I can't have kids and it angers me to see you have a child," would you stay friends with this person? Well, your business is your baby and your fiancé (someone who is supposed to be your best friend) is telling you to give up your baby just because he'd feel better if you did.

I didn't use the word 'side' in that sense. I meant that my friends know I have no romantic feelings towards my business partner, therefore, there is no need for my fiance to be jealous or for me to give up my business.

Do you think that there is no compromise, or it's not possible because my fiance seems adamant?

Someone (on another forum I post on) suggested that I could cut out the travelling, but that is virtually impossible, because it is necessary for my business to be successful.

[RecordProducer]

Do you think that there is no compromise, or it's not possible because my fiance seems adamant?

Someone (on another forum I post on) suggested that I could cut out the travelling, but that is virtually impossible, because it is necessary for my business to be successful.

To cut out the traveling is a compromise, but if you do as he demands (part with your business partner), then it will be 100% his way.

 

If you parted with your BP and started your own business, how would that go? Would have have to pay for your own office (while now you share space)? What about the clients? Would you be able to find new ones; how about returning clients? Would you need his teamwork or would you be able to do the job by yourself?

[dnm]

To cut out the traveling is a compromise, but if you do as he demands (part with your business partner), then it will be 100% his way.

 

If you parted with your BP and started your own business, how would that go? Would have have to pay for your own office (while now you share space)? What about the clients? Would you be able to find new ones; how about returning clients? Would you need his teamwork or would you be able to do the job by yourself?

Perhaps, I can't say for sure obviously. I can work by myself, but the partnership would be better, I suppose. We work very well together, like I said.

Starting another business and giving up this one would be a very tedious process though. In some ways, it would be like starting again. If it were not very difficult/tedious , I would have done what my fiance wants(I think he might agree to this).

Anyway, even if I start on my own, I will be with clients, male ones too, and will have to travel because of the clients. What if he gets annoyed again?

 

 

-----

My fiance was trying to bring this up again right now, I told him I don't want to talk about it. I really have nothing to say and don't want to argue again.

[sugar_and_spice]

Perhaps, I can't say for sure obviously. I can work by myself, but the partnership would be better, I suppose. We work very well together, like I said.

Starting another business and giving up this one would be a very tedious process though. In some ways, it would be like starting again. If it were not very difficult/tedious , I would have done what my fiance wants(I think he might agree to this).

Anyway, even if I start on my own, I will be with clients, male ones too, and will have to travel because of the clients. What if he gets annoyed again?

 

 

.

Methinks that once you start your own business, your fiance will tell you to only deal with women clients

[RecordProducer]

If it were not very difficult/tedious , I would have done what my fiancé wants(I think he might agree to this).

You think he might agree to this one? So it IS about you working, not about your business partner!!! Now you think he wouldn't like it if you had a business at all because it would involve male clients.

 

Anyway, even if I start on my own, I will be with clients, male ones too, and will have to travel because of the clients. What if he gets annoyed again?

Well.. it's your life, DNM... what if he gets annoyed? You are going to quit that too? Then you will start working for someone else and you will still have male clients, bosses and colleagues? Can't you see that you already know that this will never end? He won't calm down until you're at home, in the kitchen, fat and drunk, drowning in misery and alcohol and tears, with kids screaming because their mother is screaming at them?

 

You're making a huge mistake for marrying this man. He is sick. He is not just jealous. If you were my little sister, I'd lock you in the basement to prevent you from marrying him. The most dangerous part is that he is making you "want" to do all this for him. There is no compromise. Until you hit the bottom and are left penniless, unemployed, with kids on your back, you won't wake up. Unless you wake up now.

[dnm]

You think he might agree to this one? So it IS about you working, not about your business partner!!! Now you think he wouldn't like it if you had a business at all because it would involve male clients.

I think he'll be fine with it, but the idea of closing down this business and starting anther one sounds so...tedious(for want of a better word/term).

It's possible that he won't like it if I'm on a trip and with male clients, I'm not saying that will definitely happen.

 

 

Well.. it's your life, DNM... what if he gets annoyed? You are going to quit that too? Then you will start working for someone else and you will still have male clients, bosses and colleagues? Can't you see that you already know that this will never end?

I don't think he's trying to get me to stay at home....I've never asked him if he prefers that, not that I actually would do that.

I'm not able to think about this properly; it's barely been two weeks since we got engaged, but then he hinted about this and when I asked him to elaborate, he told me how he felt. So we've been arguing about this and I keep crying that I have to choose. Maybe I should try the "I won't marry you till you accept me as I am" bit?

[james123]

Starting a new business sounds fair. If you can't even do that much for him, then I would say you're not willing to compromise really.

[dnm]

Totally agree!

 

And, I'll add, by the way, that IF she actually WANTED to cheat on her fiancee, just because she gives up her business and is no longer partners with this guy, THAT WOULD NOT PREVENT HER FROM CHEATING. Either she would cheat with this guy regardless of their business relationship, or with some other guy. Destroying her business is no guarantee of fidelity.

 

He either trusts her or he doesn't. And it's clear that he doesn't.

yeah, that's true, I'm going to tell him this.

[carhill]

Hey, happy new year's eve

 

OP, can you refresh my old fart memory about a couple things...

 

What does your fiance say about joining you for some pre-marital counseling?

 

I recall you saying he didn't have issues with male clients/friends/vendors in general, rather just this business partner. Am I remembering that right?

 

Do you get the sense that your fiance is restless with his lot in life? That he's not comfortable with his path? I ask this because I walk a path very different than most "normal" men and it took me many years to become comfortable with the differences and how society perceives them. I recall many instances of unreasonable jealousy and frustration, often with exactly those men similar to how you describe your business partner. Your thoughts?

 

I really think PMC would help you. It brought me clarity, and, with that, peace.

 

Regarding friends, I think you were wise to solicit opinion from strangers. Friends spend their lives hearing your story and empathizing with you and supporting you. How many friends are really going to challenge you on this, not to defeat you, but to get you to think critically of your position. It takes a really good friend to do that, risking the friendship in the process. If you have a few of those, consider yourself fortunate

 

So, got your New Year's resolution sorted? I still have a few hours of decadence left

[RecordProducer]

yeah, that's true, I'm going to tell him this.

And that's the problem: that you're goin to fight an argument that doesn't exist - because he is not jealous of your business partner, so no matter what you say about your BP won't have any effect. H eis just trying to turn you into a marionette; he wants to get rid of your independence and breaking up your business is the best way.

[dnm]

Hey, happy new year's eve

To you, too!

 

 

What does your fiance say about joining you for some pre-marital counseling?

I spoke to him about that yesterday, he said he didn't see the point and that we could sort our problems out ourselves.

I recall you saying he didn't have issues with male clients/friends/vendors in general, rather just this business partner. Am I remembering that right?

He says that he doesn't. But in the past he has had problems with me being alone with friends. so he doesn't have issues with me being friends with males per se, but you get the point.

 

Do you get the sense that your fiance is restless with his lot in life? That

he's not comfortable with his path? I ask this because I walk a path very different than most "normal" men and it took me many years to become comfortable with the differences and how society perceives them. I recall many instances of unreasonable jealousy and frustration, often with exactly those men similar to how you describe your business partner. Your thoughts?

Restless with his career and job? As in, you think he wants to be like my fiance careerwise?

 

So, got your New Year's resolution sorted? I still have a few hours of decadence left

I'm very bad with sticking to resolutions(who isn't lol), so I don't make them anymore.

 

 

---------------

 

And that's the problem: that you're goin to fight an argument that doesn't exist - because he is not jealous of your business partner, so no matter what you say about your BP won't have any effect. H eis just trying to turn you into a marionette; he wants to get rid of your independence and breaking up your business is the best way.

I do agree that he's not really jealous of my bp, but I don't think the independence bit is true.

[Walk]

I do agree that he's not really jealous of my bp, but I don't think the independence bit is true.

Maybe RPs words were a tad extreme sounding, but I think the message is right on the mark. Your fiance logically doesn't want a marionette, but he is curtailing your actions extremely heavily. In fact, your fiance probably doesn't want you to become a doormat. But he IS pushing you toward that outcome.

 

He's attempting to engineer your life toward what he THINKS will make him happy. But you'll find that each progressive step won't be enough for him. There will always be another threat looming around the corner that will cause your fiance to feel anxious and worried. Getting rid of the business won't remove your fiances jealousy. He'll latch onto a new candidate when the old one is gone. This is because it isn't your business partner that's the problem. The problem lies within your fiance. It's his issues surfacing. His fears, his insecurities. From what you posted, you've tried very hard to make your fiance feel secure with your business partner, and none of your actions have worked. This is because your fiances feelings are not rational and they aren't due to your actions, so changing your place of employement won't alleviate your partners fears. He'll find something new to latch onto as the root cause of his issues. A co-worker, a client, a boss, etc.

 

I think you'd be doing the wrong thing by giving up your business because your fiance feels threatened by it. I think you'll be feeding into his issues and making the problem worse.

[ella23]

And that's the problem: that you're goin to fight an argument that doesn't exist - because he is not jealous of your business partner, so no matter what you say about your BP won't have any effect. H eis just trying to turn you into a marionette; he wants to get rid of your independence and breaking up your business is the best way.

Come on, he told her that she can work if she wants do, so it doesn't look like he wants to turn her into a marionette.

[MusicChick24]

1. How long have you been in a relationship with your fiance?

almost 2 years

 

2. How long have you had your business?

around 6 years

 

3. When he dictates that you must get out of this business, what is his reasoning? Does he express trust issues? Does he claim it doesn't "appear right"? He must give you some kind of "reason" as to why he has a problem with this - so what is his reason?

He says that he doesn't want me running a business with a male, and that it is really odd that I'm running a business with a guy and he's never heard of any male and female co-own a business. He doesn't feel comfortable with it.

 

 

4. What has YOUR response to him been? Have you stood up for yourself and told him that you were co-owner in this business at the very start of your relationship and if he had such a problem with it, he shouldn't have had a relationship with you?

He has always complained about it, but does it a lot more now. I told him that I have put so much hard work and money into it, and don't want to give it up. Also, he has no reason to be insecure about this, because I have never been more than friends with my business partner.

 

5. Have you told him you'll consider getting out of the business?

no, I don't really know what to do.

 

6. Are there other areas in your relationship where he tries to dictate how things will be should he marry you?

Not exactly, but he is quite possessive.

 

7. If you are to sell your half of the business to your partner, then what does your fiance expect you'll do in terms of work? Does he make any suggestions? What happens if you get a job elsewhere (as an employer as opposed to a co-owner/manager) and you're working with males - will he take issue with that, too?

No, he's fine with me working elsewhere, because even if I have male co-workers, I'm not necessarily going to be close friends with them.

 

8. Do you get a sense that, now because you're wearing his engagement ring, that he's trying to change you to fit him? Does he try to isolate you from friends & family? Tell you how to dress? Does he seem insecure overall? Does he express a difficulty in trusting you?

Like I said, he's very possessive.

And I think he gets intimidated with the fact that I earn around the same amount as him.

 

 

The business came before him, he's possesive and OBVIOUSLY REALLY INSECURE...tell him to Fu_ck off and find someone else. It is not normal or healthy for him to tell you what to do. Marrying you would not make you his property and that seems to be how he feels. If he doesn't change his opinion don't marry him. You would be better without his problems.

[dnm]

Maybe RPs words were a tad extreme sounding, but I think the message is right on the mark. Your fiance logically doesn't want a marionette, but he is curtailing your actions extremely heavily. In fact, your fiance probably doesn't want you to become a doormat. But he IS pushing you toward that outcome.

 

He's attempting to engineer your life toward what he THINKS will make him happy. But you'll find that each progressive step won't be enough for him. There will always be another threat looming around the corner that will cause your fiance to feel anxious and worried. Getting rid of the business won't remove your fiances jealousy. He'll latch onto a new candidate when the old one is gone. This is because it isn't your business partner that's the problem. The problem lies within your fiance. It's his issues surfacing. His fears, his insecurities. From what you posted, you've tried very hard to make your fiance feel secure with your business partner, and none of your actions have worked. This is because your fiances feelings are not rational and they aren't due to your actions, so changing your place of employement won't alleviate your partners fears. He'll find something new to latch onto as the root cause of his issues. A co-worker, a client, a boss, etc.

 

I think you'd be doing the wrong thing by giving up your business because your fiance feels threatened by it. I think you'll be feeding into his issues and making the problem worse.

He doesn't hava anything to fear; even if he doesn't trust my business partner, well , how does that matter. I will not cheat, so surely what any other man may look to do with me is irrelavent?

[carhill]

OP, some men are territorial. In fact, I'd hazard that many men are territorial; they just don't openly express it. A male competes for advantages in his environment and for a mate and he guards those spoils aggressively. If your fiance is indeed an investment banker, I would presume he's very competitive.

 

Your loyalty is irrelevant to him. He sees every moment with your business partner as a threat to his "investment" and an infringement by another male on his territory. People might laugh but it wasn't long ago men killed each other over such things, and still do in certain parts of the world.

 

I'm not condoning it nor saying it's right or evolved in any way, rather just trying to explain a segment of the male psyche.

 

Push for PMC. I know you both can afford it. It will help *you*, regardless of whether it resolves your issues or helps you fiance. Tell him you won't consider changing your business plan without you both participating in PMC

[RecordProducer]

Maybe RPs words were a tad extreme sounding, but I think the message is right on the mark. Your fiancé logically doesn't want a marionette, but he is curtailing your actions extremely heavily. In fact, your fiancé probably doesn't want you to become a doormat. But he IS pushing you toward that outcome.

 

He's attempting to engineer your life toward what he THINKS will make him happy. But you'll find that each progressive step won't be enough for him. There will always be another threat looming around the corner that will cause your fiancé to feel anxious and worried. Getting rid of the business won't remove your fiancé's jealousy. He'll latch onto a new candidate when the old one is gone. This is because it isn't your business partner that's the problem. The problem lies within your fiancé. It's his issues surfacing. His fears, his insecurities. From what you posted, you've tried very hard to make your fiancé feel secure with your business partner, and none of your actions have worked. This is because your fiancé's feelings are not rational and they aren't due to your actions, so changing your place of employment won't alleviate your partners fears. He'll find something new to latch onto as the root cause of his issues. A co-worker, a client, a boss, etc.

 

I think you'd be doing the wrong thing by giving up your business because your fiance feels threatened by it. I think you'll be feeding into his issues and making the problem worse.

Wow! This was such a great post!

 

He doesn't hava anything to fear; even if he doesn't trust my business partner, well , how does that matter. I will not cheat, so surely what any other man may look to do with me is irrelavent?

You're trying to rationalize things by using logic - and there is nothing logical and rational in your fiancé's demand and possessiveness. Furthermore, you're asking "how is it relevant" and you know very well that he doesn't like you being near anyone who owns a penis. Men are everywhere around you and if he doesn't trust you, he can "lock" you in the house, and he'll still be threatened by the mail delivery guy or the guy who knocked on your door to sell you something. And if he does trust you, then why all the jealousy? It's not that he doesn't trust you, it's that he has a big problem. I don't even know if it's insecurity or just a territorial thing, as Carhill suggested: he simply doesn't want anyone near his property - in the same way as some Islamic men don't let their wives get near any men.

[dnm]

OP, some men are territorial. In fact, I'd hazard that many men are territorial; they just don't openly express it. A male competes for advantages in his environment and for a mate and he guards those spoils aggressively. If your fiance is indeed an investment banker, I would presume he's very competitive.

 

Your loyalty is irrelevant to him. He sees every moment with your business partner as a threat to his "investment" and an infringement by another male on his territory. People might laugh but it wasn't long ago men killed each other over such things, and still do in certain parts of the world.

 

I'm not condoning it nor saying it's right or evolved in any way, rather just trying to explain a segment of the male psyche.

 

Push for PMC. I know you both can afford it. It will help *you*, regardless of whether it resolves your issues or helps you fiance. Tell him you won't consider changing your business plan without you both participating in PMC

Wow! This was such a great post!

 

You're trying to rationalize things by using logic - and there is nothing logical and rational in your fiancé's demand and possessiveness. Furthermore, you're asking "how is it relevant" and you know very well that he doesn't like you being near anyone who owns a penis. Men are everywhere around you and if he doesn't trust you, he can "lock" you in the house, and he'll still be threatened by the mail delivery guy or the guy who knocked on your door to sell you something. And if he does trust you, then why all the jealousy? It's not that he doesn't trust you, it's that he has a big problem. I don't even know if it's insecurity or just a territorial thing, as Carhill suggested: he simply doesn't want anyone near his property - in the same way as some Islamic men don't let their wives get near any men.

Yes, he's competitive, but taking it this far is too much. Even if he's territorial, how can he think that asking me to give up what I've worked so hard for is acceptable?

 

I think it's going to be incredibly difficult to get him to even consider PMC.

[sugar_and_spice]

OP, is it possible that long working hours are causing problems? Investment bankers have long working hours right, and so do you?