sally4sara Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Some of you ladies here are making this man look like some scheming evil monster! So he finds her attractive to look at, likes the sex, finds her compatible? Aren't all those significant reasons for wanting to get hitched to your woman? Anyway, have you actually gone ahead from the arguing or is the same quarreling happening again and again? They are qualities that we all hope to have in a partner, but its not like as long as those are covered, thats all you need be concerned with. I've never had my own business and no one has ever asked me to give up a business to get married. I have had a controlling territorial BF. And he DID dangle "carrots" he thought all women would jump at to use as leverage. It started small, random guy friends, warnings of male co-workers, that isn't appropriate to wear, why do you wear make up? It moved on to female friends who might influence me to cheat or had "lesbo" vibe to them. It got bad. I don't assume my experiences to be the universal standards. I see it often IRL and we all can read it on here all the time: "I married her because she had the qualities a man seeks in a wife and the mother of his children. I was never THAT passionate about her, but she was stable." Women have to be careful about all those unspoken qualities covered in that blanket statment and what they mean to each man. A man can say a woman should know her place, but till you know what HE thinks that is, you don't know if it is offensive or nurturing toward you. We are all just telling her to think long and hard about this and make sure they hash it out before tying the knot. Everyone should. I think it is kind of like the couch theory in Fight Club only it becomes the wife theory. Whatever else happens he'll have the wife thing covered because she is a stable, safe bet. I worry that the OP's man is like minded and he is just tying up a few loose ends that trouble his mind before marrying a proper woman. Not just her, but a proper woman and she is the one he is with so she becomes the likely candidate. The mindset that if she proves to be a "proper woman", he'll take care of the rest. I doubt he is being malicious or has evil intent. It isn't an evil mindset, but it can be an entitled, shallow, and short-sighted mindset. Just that perhaps he hasn't thought too deeply about his motives. She'll have to be deep for him on this one to make sure HE is a safe bet.
sugar_and_spice Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Sally4Sara, you think he's interested in marrying her more because she's a "proper" woman than for love? I think it's time for someone to start a "Problems with fiance-Part 2" thread, it is getting difficult to get around this one!
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 I know what you are saying and I believe you, it is so frustrating when you know what's what and there is no way of getting that through to the other person. It's at that point when you sincerely need to look at why you are even trying that hard. If you can honestly look at yourself and say I know in my heart that I don't do anything to make this man feel this way, then you really need to expand your vision and consider the big picture, ie. HIM. I think we are stuck arguing, I need to seriously talk to him and make things clear (and make him realise that I'm actually serious when I say I will leave). You both don't get along in general or is it only because of this particular problem? Let's just say we aren't the best of friends. She has a habit of trying to tell us what to do all the time, and makes comments like, "are you sure you want to marry? you seem too committed to work"(why not both?), "you guys must have kids. I don't think you should marry otherwise."(when we both don't want to) and "so you're into toyboys?"(erm he's only 2 years younger to me), all the time. It's bizarre considering the rest of his family doesn't interfere in our relationship at all.
sally4sara Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Sally4Sara, you think he's interested in marrying her more because she's a "proper" woman than for love? I think it's time for someone to start a "Problems with fiance-Part 2" thread, it is getting difficult to get around this one! I don't know why else someone would propose and then set a condition on following through with marriage. I don't even know if my theory is the right one, but we come on here and share our situations in the hope of finding some direction through others. She can read them all and figure it out for herself.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 The "proper woman" theory is a plausible one. I still can't get over the fact that he told her 3 days after the proposal that there was this one, little condition.... I have a good friend who is married to an investment banker. She is a beautiful, very smart, and just a generally fantastic woman. In high school she was sort of the queen of the school, but everyone loved her, men and women alike. She got married tot this guy, and she really does fit the image of the "perfect wife". Guess what? They rarely have sex. And it happened pretty soon after the wedding. It looks like it could be that old madonna/whore complex. There is such a thing as the "proper wife". OP, it is easy for all of us to give our two cents here, but ulitmately you are looking at your life changing in profound ways. Either you marry and give up your business, or you say no and possibly lose the man you love. Neither scenario sounds like it would make you happy. How much can he love you if he is willing to give you up so easily?
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 The "proper woman" theory is a plausible one. I still can't get over the fact that he told her 3 days after the proposal that there was this one, little condition.... I have a good friend who is married to an investment banker. She is a beautiful, very smart, and just a generally fantastic woman. In high school she was sort of the queen of the school, but everyone loved her, men and women alike. She got married tot this guy, and she really does fit the image of the "perfect wife". Guess what? They rarely have sex. And it happened pretty soon after the wedding. It looks like it could be that old madonna/whore complex. There is such a thing as the "proper wife". OP, it is easy for all of us to give our two cents here, but ulitmately you are looking at your life changing in profound ways. Either you marry and give up your business, or you say no and possibly lose the man you love. Neither scenario sounds like it would make you happy. How much can he love you if he is willing to give you up so easily? That seems to be a common trend with investment bankers, because a few of his married mates at work have "trophy wives", and he once told me that he couldn't understand why these guys married just to have some "arm candy" with them at all times . He said that most of them didn't want "a high flying nightmare"(their words, not his) and wanted someone who'd stay at home. I even almost did a fake I'm leaving drama but that would be really immature I guess.
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 The past week, things have cooled off a lot between us. We haven't actually been doing anything that a normal newly engaged couple would do. He also keeps asking what I'm doing online all the time late into the night (we stay over at each others place every other day;won't tell him I'm on here though).
norajane Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 The past week, things have cooled off a lot between us. We haven't actually been doing anything that a normal newly engaged couple would do. I'm sorry. He has cheated you out of the happiness you would have been feeling right now, hasn't he?
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 I'm sorry. He has cheated you out of the happiness you would have been feeling right now, hasn't he? Yes, sort of. I mean I cannot blame him completely, I should shoulder the blame,too, because I haven't made much effort to make things "normal" between us again. Like earlier in the night today we were just lying on the bed and weren't even talking. Later on I even had to say, "Do you plan to say anything at all tonight?".
norajane Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Yes, sort of. I mean I cannot blame him completely, I should shoulder the blame,too, because I haven't made much effort to make things "normal" between us again. Like earlier in the night today we were just lying on the bed and weren't even talking. Later on I even had to say, "Do you plan to say anything at all tonight?". You two wouldn't be behaving this way had he not put a condition on his proposal. That's what I meant - you aren't as joyful and don't feel as good with him as you would have otherwise. Think back to how things were between you right after he proposed, but before he issued his ultimatum. Those 3 days were very different, right?
Star Gazer Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I wouldn't even DATE a man who'd have an expectation that I wouldn't EVER partner up in a business with someone who has a penis as opposed to a vagina. It's honestly the craziest request from a man I've ever heard, and I'm greatly disappointed that ANY woman would ever so much as even consider it for a split second.
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 You two wouldn't be behaving this way had he not put a condition on his proposal. That's what I meant - you aren't as joyful and don't feel as good with him as you would have otherwise. Think back to how things were between you right after he proposed, but before he issued his ultimatum. Those 3 days were very different, right? Yes, things were different then. He was different. He was being unbelievably romantic and caring. He's been even more distant since I told him that I won't marry him till he does away with this ultimatum. He thinks it is a compromise because I can find a consulting job elsewhere!?! The other day, after his sis went away, I told her what she said to me and he was indifferent about it. We're going downhill. I think he still believes that I am considering what he wants seriously. I don't know why else someone would propose and then set a condition on following through with marriage. I don't even know if my theory is the right one, but we come on here and share our situations in the hope of finding some direction through others. She can read them all and figure it out for herself. I realise that happens, but I am not "perfect wife" material. At all. He knows that I won't be a full time homemaker for him and I doubt he would marry me for a reason which made him criticise his friends. I think it's time for someone to start a "Problems with fiance-Part 2" thread, it is getting difficult to get around this one! If it's becoming a problem for everyone, I will do that. But it won't be required hopefully.
ella23 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 what was the point of waiting for 3 days to say this
sugar_and_spice Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 what was the point of waiting for 3 days to say this because he didn't want to overwhelm her or was scared.
james123 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I don't know why else someone would propose and then set a condition on following through with marriage. I don't even know if my theory is the right one, but we come on here and share our situations in the hope of finding some direction through others. She can read them all and figure it out for herself. Because he might actually love her a lot but some things are just dealbreakers. Anyway, if he's looking for a proper woman and one who stays at home or is in a less demanding job, then he should go find them, there are many who are not ambitious or high flyers. It's kind of lame to ask her to give up everything to make her that kind of woman.
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 I wouldn't even DATE a man who'd have an expectation that I wouldn't EVER partner up in a business with someone who has a penis as opposed to a vagina. It's honestly the craziest request from a man I've ever heard, and I'm greatly disappointed that ANY woman would ever so much as even consider it for a split second. He didn't make it this obvious when we first started dating. Yes, he did let me know that he had reservations and wasn't thrilled, but only after we had been together for a while did I get to know just how much he hated the whole set up.
carhill Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 OP, I'm really more concerned about your fiance's lack of interest in PMC than his continuing perspective regarding your business partner. Could you sincerely tell him you're considering making a change but want to work through it with him, utilizing a professional for help? This would indicate you're willing to bend on a very important issue and that you want him to bend on his unwillingness to go to PMC.... I'm just fishing for scenarios here. Things to try. Up to you what you want to do... Well, back to freezin my azz off in the shop......try not to stay up too late
sally4sara Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Because he might actually love her a lot but some things are just dealbreakers. Anyway, if he's looking for a proper woman and one who stays at home or is in a less demanding job, then he should go find them, there are many who are not ambitious or high flyers. It's kind of lame to ask her to give up everything to make her that kind of woman. What is or isn't lame or what someone should or shouldn't do doesn't always go with what people actually end up doing. Would this site exist if everyone did what the not lame thing they should do to begin with. Now why the OP's man would go for her if he really wanted a woman who would be a SAHM? I don't know if in fact he does want those things. What I DO know is if I could get someone to give as much as he is asking her to give up - I would feel pretty confident I could get them to do anything I wanted them to do. Even more so once legally wed to me. Maybe thats what he's trying to find out. Maybe not. We're all just making suggestions and cautionaries. She already finds the situation suspect so I'm sure she'll get to the bottom of it. After all, she's smart enough to have a profitable business.
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 has the no-talking situation improved? Not much. I was going to go to his place, but didn't go. I hope that doesn't make things even worse though! OP, I'm really more concerned about your fiance's lack of interest in PMC than his continuing perspective regarding your business partner. Could you sincerely tell him you're considering making a change but want to work through it with him, utilizing a professional for help? This would indicate you're willing to bend on a very important issue and that you want him to bend on his unwillingness to go to PMC.... I'm just fishing for scenarios here. Things to try. Up to you what you want to do... Well, back to freezin my azz off in the shop......try not to stay up too late He just keeps saying that we can sort everything out ourselves and that we don't need to see a counsellor for it. He seems a bit embarrassed about it somehow! Maybe thats what he's trying to find out. Maybe not. We're all just making suggestions and cautionaries. She already finds the situation suspect so I'm sure she'll get to the bottom of it. After all, she's smart enough to have a profitable business. I don't know if he would like me to stay at home but it's irrelevant because I won't do that.
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 Oh wait. I didn't go so he called up to say he's coming. Sounded a lot less pissed off. lol.
carhill Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Next suggestion, since this has apparently become circular. Don't talk to him for a week. Prior, suggest to him that he call you when he's overcome his embarrassment about seeing a PMC Some might call that "the silent treatment" but I would opine it's a vacation from a fruitless discourse. You've tried. Time for him to reflect in silence and solitary
Author dnm Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 Next suggestion, since this has apparently become circular. Don't talk to him for a week. Prior, suggest to him that he call you when he's overcome his embarrassment about seeing a PMC Some might call that "the silent treatment" but I would opine it's a vacation from a fruitless discourse. You've tried. Time for him to reflect in silence and solitary It's a good idea but now he's coming over. Should I just not talk again like yesterday ?
aaron12 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 hmm OP, unfortunately your man is right about this. no man ever befriends a woman unless he is romantically interested in her(unless he is gay of course). Your guy knows that your partner has an eye on you and is getting jealous. You have to trust him on this one. It may be difficult for you to accept but guys and girls cannot be friends, specially from the guys side.
sugar_and_spice Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 hmm OP, unfortunately your man is right about this. no man ever befriends a woman unless he is romantically interested in her(unless he is gay of course). Your guy knows that your partner has an eye on you and is getting jealous. You have to trust him on this one. It may be difficult for you to accept but guys and girls cannot be friends, specially from the guys side. what a useful post. not. why do you people try to speak for everyone?
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