james123 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 It's a business relationship. The word platonic doesn't even come into it, so why you are calling it that I don't know. she herself said that they are close friends
CommitmentPhobe Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 she herself said that they are close friends He's asking her to give up the business. If he asked them not to hang out then the platonic part is relevant But it's not
james123 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 He's asking her to give up the business. If he asked them not to hang out then the platonic part is relevant But it's not yes, it is lame of him to do that. He shoudn't have proposed with this ultimatum. but the platonic part is relevant because you cannot stop being friends at work.
Author dnm Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 I think the fact that he has asked something so huge of her but isn't immediately willing to let someone sit on on any discussions about it is the biggest red flag in the deal. If he is so justified in asking this of her and his request is "normal", why avoid PMC? If it were "normal" then the counselor would surely back him up, right? Wrong. And he knows it. Either that or he feels whatever work went into her business was just to keep the OP busy till the OP's prince came along!! the reason he gives is that he thinks we don't need pmc, because he thinks we can and should solve our issues ourselves.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Ok, so what is he doing to solve this problem? Seeing as he thinks you should solve it yourselves?
Tomcat33 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The reason he doesn't want to do PMC is because he knows that if he does it, it sends the message that he might be willing to compromise, and clearly he doesn't want compromise he just wants to get his way and that's that. Getting your way is not as important as finding a way to work together through the tough times/decisions. More often than not I have felt dissatified if I simply got my way when we would buck heads, but finding a commmon ground that we could both feel comfortable with was the most rewarding of outcomes. When you have true friendship in a romatic relationship you acknowledge and respect what the other person is, you don't try to control or change them. This creates a sense of safety and security when you're together and you know that you're valued for who you are and you see the value in your partner. In which way is this demand valuing who you are dnm?
christian6 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 yes, it is lame of him to do that. He shoudn't have proposed with this ultimatum. but the platonic part is relevant because you cannot stop being friends at work. I agree with this mostly. It's easy to talk about how you should have trust, etc., but in the real world this sort of closeness would make the partner uncomfortable. Especially the traveling bit. I understand it is a big part of your job and is a necessity for it, but I could never put with my gf traveling with another male frequently. I know I'll get attacked for this post, too bad.
Tomcat33 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I agree with this mostly. It's easy to talk about how you should have trust, etc., but in the real world this sort of closeness would make the partner uncomfortable. Especially the traveling bit. I understand it is a big part of your job and is a necessity for it, but I could never put with my gf traveling with another male frequently. I know I'll get attacked for this post, too bad. That's fair I know we are all made of feelings some we can't explain or fully control so that's fair. Can I ask you something? If you met a girl and you found out she had a business with a guy and travelled with him would you still date her and become heavily involved with her?
christian6 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 That's fair I know we are all made of feelings some we can't explain or fully control so that's fair. Can I ask you something? If you met a girl and you found out she had a business with a guy and travelled with him would you still date her and become heavily involved with her? No, I won't get involved heavily, I would just leave.
Author dnm Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 If I could give up the travelling, I would, but it is an intrinsic part of the job and it would be better to just shut down the business than to try to cut that out because I can't afford to be choosy about clients, and it would hurt the business a lot. Anyway, some people keep telling me that I'll get drunk and things might happen, which is not going to happen because I hardly drink and I do have self control!
Tomcat33 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 No, I won't get involved heavily, I would just leave. The guy in this situation did the opposite of that fully knowing what the deal was and now he expects her to just jump ship. Is that fair? It's akin to dating a blond person and telling them to change their hair colour to black when you propose to marry them because you always wanted to marry a black haired person. It's ridiculous!
Author dnm Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 The reason he doesn't want to do PMC is because he knows that if he does it, it sends the message that he might be willing to compromise, and clearly he doesn't want compromise he just wants to get his way and that's that. Getting your way is not as important as finding a way to work together through the tough times/decisions. More often than not I have felt dissatified if I simply got my way when we would buck heads, but finding a commmon ground that we could both feel comfortable with was the most rewarding of outcomes. When you have true friendship in a romantic relationship you acknowledge and respect what the other person is, you don't try to control or change them. This creates a sense of safety and security when you're together and you know that you're valued for who you are and you see the value in your partner. In which way is this demand valuing who you are dnm? I asked again right now, he says, "What is the point?" I said that it would help us in finding a solution which is acceptable to him and me(haven't said yet that I am not leaving the business). He said, "There really are only two ways we can go from here." Now what can I say to that. Everyday we have the same argument, and it feels like we are going in circles. I told him he shouldn't have stayed with me if my work had always been a problem for him. He just shrugged and said, "Perhaps I should have." His sister (who knows what is going on) came over yesterday and told me I should show more respect for my fiance and our relationship, and said, "If you want to be with him you will do this for him. You should have been smart enough to know that being so close to another man would cause problems in your future relationships."
Author dnm Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 Ok, so what is he doing to solve this problem? Seeing as he thinks you should solve it yourselves? Not much, tbh.
dashing daisy Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I can't even go into all the red flags here. No matter how sweet, caring, and loving he seems the rest of the time, everything you've said in this thread is kind of scary. Why would someone who loves you ask you to give up something that you love, that means so much to you, that they know would be so painful for you to give up, simply to make an imaginary problem in their head go away? Why would someone who loves you and wants to spend the rest of their life with you tell you that "perhaps" they should have left you already? A person who really loves you wouldn't want to cut happiness or meaning out of your life. It sounds like he wants to have you be only his, and that's not healthy. You shouldn't be scared to have a conversation with someone who you want to spend the rest of your life with. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and worry if he will leave you if you are honest and do what's best for you. Yes, he's making it that way, but you're letting him. You are supposed to be equal partners in the relationship, he's not supposed to control you. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life feeling like this? I know it feels like if you give up this one huge, huge part of yourself, he will be satisfied, but he won't. Maybe he'll act fine for a while, but it will only get worse once he knows he can get you to do whatever he wants.
sugar_and_spice Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I can't even go into all the red flags here. No matter how sweet, caring, and loving he seems the rest of the time, everything you've said in this thread is kind of scary. because OP feels scared to tell him that she plans to keep her job?
sally4sara Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I asked again right now, he says, "What is the point?" I said that it would help us in finding a solution which is acceptable to him and me(haven't said yet that I am not leaving the business). He said, "There really are only two ways we can go from here." Now what can I say to that. Everyday we have the same argument, and it feels like we are going in circles. I told him he shouldn't have stayed with me if my work had always been a problem for him. He just shrugged and said, "Perhaps I should have." His sister (who knows what is going on) came over yesterday and told me I should show more respect for my fiance and our relationship, and said, "If you want to be with him you will do this for him. You should have been smart enough to know that being so close to another man would cause problems in your future relationships." How is bringing his sister into it "working things out yourselves"? He basically sent her over to lean on you and, as far as I can see, insult you and tell you your past choices were stupid ones to make you doubt yourself. I send people 'round to my fiancee all the time to tell him how stupid things he's done are because I love him sooo much. Send your dad over to his place to point out to him that if he really respected you, his daughter, he'd trust you more and that he shoulda been smarter than to date someone too free for his fears. You see OP, he doesn't want to keep it between the two of you. He just wants to make sure anyone he allows to get involved agrees with him first. A PM counselor will be objective and he won't risk that. He just wants his way.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes, I agree with Sally. And the sister was really condescending. You should have been smart enough to know that choosing a male business partner would cause you future problems? Puh-leeze. There's only one way this is going to go if you want to stay with him. I really don't see this guy bending. One person wins, and the other loses. Which one do you think you will be if you give it up? Make no mistake, he sees this as a power play, and he wants to win. This is not about love, as many posters have already pointed out. This whole thread makes me sad.
carhill Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Now what can I say to that. "I'm going to see a counselor next week. I really want to work on this issue and clarify my perspective and options. I hope you'll reconsider. We'll welcome you there." Then, go. You see, this process is to help *you*; ultimately, he and the relationship might benefit. It's just as possible that the process will give you a healthy sense of your incompatibility for a life partnership. A healthy clarity, once you have it, is incredibly peaceful. I wish I could convey that in meaningful words... OK, now I'll read on....
sugar_and_spice Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes, I agree with Sally. And the sister was really condescending. You should have been smart enough to know that choosing a male business partner would cause you future problems? Puh-leeze. There's only one way this is going to go if you want to stay with him. I really don't see this guy bending. One person wins, and the other loses. Which one do you think you will be if you give it up? Make no mistake, he sees this as a power play, and he wants to win. This is not about love, as many posters have already pointed out. This whole thread makes me sad. This thread makes me sad as well but I think his sister might have got a version of the story from OP's fiance which made her say that. Also , describing this as power play is extreme because he proposed to her so he obviously loves her.
sally4sara Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 This thread makes me sad as well but I think his sister might have got a version of the story from OP's fiance which made her say that. Also , describing this as power play is extreme because he proposed to her so he obviously loves her. Yeah....no one ever proposes for any reason other than pure virtuous love. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t174981/ or http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t13336/ You're very sweet Sugar and Spice, but there be monsters in these waters. People need to be more careful when it comes to choices you can't just change your mind about. I think its okay to be naive when just dating. If you are misled by a bf or a gf, you can simply break up. Marriage is a much stickier and bigger deal. One that requires wide open eyes and a full knowledge of who and what you are getting into. If it doesn't sit well with the OP to give up her business, nothing says she has to marry this guy right now or at all. We don't have to marry a guy just because he asks or says he loves us. He may not love HER way. He can go find someone who either has no business. And she can marry someone who loves her WITH her business if that is her way of being loved.
sugar_and_spice Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yeah....no one ever proposes for any reason other than pure virtuous love. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t174981/ or http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t13336/ lol no, I just meant that she herself describes him as loving & caring, so...And why would he even want to marry her at all if he didn't love her, there doesn't seem to be some hidden motive.
norajane Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I asked again right now, he says, "What is the point?" I said that it would help us in finding a solution which is acceptable to him and me(haven't said yet that I am not leaving the business). He said, "There really are only two ways we can go from here." Now what can I say to that. Everyday we have the same argument, and it feels like we are going in circles. I told him he shouldn't have stayed with me if my work had always been a problem for him. He just shrugged and said, "Perhaps I should have." His sister (who knows what is going on) came over yesterday and told me I should show more respect for my fiance and our relationship, and said, "If you want to be with him you will do this for him. You should have been smart enough to know that being so close to another man would cause problems in your future relationships." I really, really think it's time to flip the script. You could have told his sister that he should show more respect for you and how hard you've worked to build this business, as well as show more respect for your loyalty by actually trusting you - the woman he supposedly wants to spend his life with. And that he should have been smart enough to know that he shouldn't get so deeply involved when he's so insecure about other men. He knew who you were when he got involved with you. Now he's asking you to turn yourself into someone else. As to your fiancee, you've given him ALL the power and he's using it to hold this marriage over your head. Why does he get to choose to leave you if you don't destroy your business? Flip the script. Tell him you don't think you want to marry a man who doesn't trust you and respect your judgment. Try putting him on the defense, as he's put you, and if he doesn't like it, point out that's exactly what he's done to you. Fiancee thinks he holds all the cards here because he knows you want to marry him and are actually considering his ridiculous ultimatum. If he were less certain that you would do anything to marry him, he might not be so quick to make ultimatums.
carhill Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I really, really think it's time to flip the script. Yep, and taking proactive measures is really the only way I can see to do it. To fiance - (what I mentioned earlier about PMC) To fiance's sister - "Respectfully, our relationship is none of your business" Smile. Set those boundaries
ella23 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 ok, now why is the sister trying to involve herself in this?
Author dnm Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 I can't even go into all the red flags here. No matter how sweet, caring, and loving he seems the rest of the time, everything you've said in this thread is kind of scary. Why would someone who loves you ask you to give up something that you love, that means so much to you, that they know would be so painful for you to give up, simply to make an imaginary problem in their head go away? Why would someone who loves you and wants to spend the rest of their life with you tell you that "perhaps" they should have left you already? I don't know what about anything I said is scary but the "perhaps I shouldn't have" thing was something he said out of anger. How is bringing his sister into it "working things out yourselves"? He basically sent her over to lean on you and, as far as I can see, insult you and tell you your past choices were stupid ones to make you doubt yourself. I send people 'round to my fiancee all the time to tell him how stupid things he's done are because I love him sooo much. He told his sister about this but didn't send her to say that to me, she has always been quite nosy. I know they are really close but still. Send your dad over to his place to point out to him that if he really respected you, his daughter, he'd trust you more and that he shoulda been smarter than to date someone too free for his fears. um... Yes, I agree with Sally. And the sister was really condescending. You should have been smart enough to know that choosing a male business partner would cause you future problems? Puh-leeze. There's only one way this is going to go if you want to stay with him. I really don't see this guy bending. One person wins, and the other loses. Which one do you think you will be if you give it up? Make no mistake, he sees this as a power play, and he wants to win. This is not about love, as many posters have already pointed out. This whole thread makes me sad. How is it about power play? "I'm going to see a counsellor next week. I really want to work on this issue and clarify my perspective and options. I hope you'll reconsider. We'll welcome you there." Then, go. I know it will be in my interest but I would feel somewhat embarrassed going alone. It's counselling for marriage after all. Yeah....no one ever proposes for any reason other than pure virtuous love. He does love me, he really has no other reason to want to marry me. This thread makes me sad as well but I think his sister might have got a version of the story from OP's fiance which made her say that. I don't think he would deliberately want to turn his family against me. I really, really think it's time to flip the script. You could have told his sister that he should show more respect for you and how hard you've worked to build this business, as well as show more respect for your loyalty by actually trusting you - the woman he supposedly wants to spend his life with. And that he should have been smart enough to know that he shouldn't get so deeply involved when he's so insecure about other men. He knew who you were when he got involved with you. Now he's asking you to turn yourself into someone else. As to your fiancee, you've given him ALL the power and he's using it to hold this marriage over your head. Why does he get to choose to leave you if you don't destroy your business? Flip the script. Tell him you don't think you want to marry a man who doesn't trust you and respect your judgment. Try putting him on the defense, as he's put you, and if he doesn't like it, point out that's exactly what he's done to you. Fiancee thinks he holds all the cards here because he knows you want to marry him and are actually considering his ridiculous ultimatum. If he were less certain that you would do anything to marry him, he might not be so quick to make ultimatums. yeah, well, he's always had issues with this, but 3 days after proposing he said, "look we need to sort this out", etc, and that hit me like a ton of rocks. I won't do anything to marry him, I'm not that desperate! I did say that I won't marry him till he doesn't trust me and the rest of the things you mentioned, but he started saying rubbish like "why does bp and business mean more than me", "I trust you but not other men", etc. Yep, and taking proactive measures is really the only way I can see to do it. To fiance - (what I mentioned earlier about PMC) To fiance's sister - "Respectfully, our relationship is none of your business" Smile. Set those boundaries I told her, "Don't worry too much about us, we'll sort it out". ok, now why is the sister trying to involve herself in this? She is a little interfering at times.
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