CAT100 Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Ok I havent posted for a while because Ive been really preoccupied dealing with the fallout from ending the A with my MM, (for those that are unfamiliar with my situation here are the last 2 threads)- http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t164540/?highlight=cat100 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t164898/?highlight=cat100 Anyway, I have been in limited contact with MM, I know this is a mistake & just prolongs the pain but after 6.5 years its very very hard to just stop everything. We would speak every few days, sometimes about what happened and sometimes about more lighthearted stuff like his work etc etc. It all started getting a bit too 'normal' I guess its just hard to maintain my previous level of anger when speaking to him so often. After a while he started suggesting to me that I come over to where he lives abroad, as his W is coming back to the UK for a week to sort out the childrens school places etc as she is moving back here with the kids, and leaving MM to live alone abroad. I told him there was no way I could come over, it would be incredible difficult to do that journey I have done so many times, under happier circumstances (I have been to his home abroad about 15times and am very familiar with the area and it all has happy memories) In the last 2 weeks I have felt like its getting out of control, giving him false hope, not intentionally but just due to my own weakness and reluctance to let him go. So I called him on sunday night and told him I just could not be with him, and we should stop talking as I didnt want to prolong the pain any more, for either of us. He was at home with W and still took the call and reacted very very badly- crying, begging me for another chance, saying he was 'a changed man' and that he had been shaken up so badly, he now knew I was the one for him, his soulmate, saying he hates himself for what hes done, he looks back on it now and its like it was not him. He was sobbing and half way through the conversation he actually ran to the bathroom and I heard him being sick, and I just felt so desperately sad and like I wanted to hold him, I know what he has done to me is appalling but I still felt so bad for him to hear him in that state. He stayed on the phone for about an hour and was just literally begging me for another chance, saying he would hate himself for the rest of his life for what he did and for losing the one person that would have made him happy. He called me back at 2 am saying he was in the bathroom he couldnt sleep he felt so sick, he couldnt take it, please could I give him another chance, he would make me the happiest person in the world, he would spend his life making up for what he did, he has done a lot of soul searching and just wants to be with me and I am the best thing that hs ever happened to him. I was really crying at this point, it was awful to hear his voice he was sobbing and I didnt know what to say. He called again at 5:30am saying he was in his car parked near his office, he couldnt face work, he used to look forward to his lunchbreaks and meetings so he could call me, but now he has nothing to look forward to any more. His business is not doing very well due to current economic climate and he is working 13 hour days and I was the only bit of light in his day and now I dont want to speak to him anymore. I just said I am sorry, I didnt think you would react this badly, please go to work and eat something- you cant do such a long day with nothing to eat. He then started crying again saying its typical of me to 'look after' him and why was he so stupid to lose me and he hates himself. I eventually got him off the phone and he called me a couple more times in the day, saying the same kind of things and we were both really upset. Now I know that what he did is awful, maybe unforgivable. And I have a huge amount of pain and hurt, and anger. And maybe this is just me being in denial but my question is- can I ever get back with him? Not now, when his W has left, after christmas, I will by then have had 4 months alone, and I do believe that he is honestly now realising the scale of what he has done, and he keeps telling me how he has done soul searching and therapy and he has 'grown up' and realises he cant be a cake eater forever and he just wants to be with me. I still love him and I cant imagine life without him, I know what he did but is it true that people never change, or can it be that me ending it combined with him finally separating from his W have shaken him so badly that he has been taught a hard lesson and is now a changed person? Any thoughts would be great, I have to decide what to do and I dont want to regret my decision for the rest of my life. Im crying every day, thinking what if he has changed and maybe I should find out. I love him with all my heart and just dont know what to do:confused:
jwi71 Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I scanned those threads you posted. Maybe YOU should read them again. The advice won't change and neither will you to be honest. Harsh? Sure. But you are unwilling to see him for what he truly is. I ask this of you. Re-read your posts. Then answer this one simple question. Would you want your daughter to marry/date the man in your posts?
whichwayisup Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 He keeps saying he's changed, by how? People don't just change because they say they have. His actions have shown you time and time again that he IS NOT going to change. Right now he's hurt, he's desparate and is reacting on pure emotion, he's not thinking clearly. You did the right thing by ending it. Even if you two DO love eachother, that doesn't mean you're right for one another and can build a healthy relationship together.
norajane Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Um, this is the guy who won't get a divorce because of the kids needing two parents at home? And the guy who cheated on both his wife and you with yet another OW? please could I give him another chance, he would make me the happiest person in the world, he would spend his life making up for what he did, he has done a lot of soul searching and just wants to be with me and I am the best thing that hs ever happened to him. Really? How exactly is he going to spend his life making it up to you when he is still married and isn't even thinking about a divorce? Same old, same old. He wants what he wants, and he doesn't give a damn how that keeps you hanging onto a MM with no intentions of divorce. What kind of life is that for you, a woman 23 years younger than him?! Don't you want your own life, your own family, a man who doesn't have a wife and who knows how many other women he's dallying with?
Author CAT100 Posted November 7, 2008 Author Posted November 7, 2008 He keeps saying he's changed, by how? People don't just change because they say they have. His actions have shown you time and time again that he IS NOT going to change. Well the fact that he is finally separating from his W is a big change. For years he has been having As and she has turned a blind eye 'for the sake of the kids' but now they have decided they cannot live together, and he will still have access to his kids but not be with his W. This, to me is a big step in him taking responsibility and not having his cake and eating it, as he has done in the past
norajane Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Well the fact that he is finally separating from his W is a big change. For years he has been having As and she has turned a blind eye 'for the sake of the kids' but now they have decided they cannot live together, and he will still have access to his kids but not be with his W. This, to me is a big step in him taking responsibility and not having his cake and eating it, as he has done in the past You see this is a separation, but how do you know that's what it is? They moved abroad to start a business and supposedly save their finances (her money started the business, right??). Their move was always intended to be temporary. Perhaps she is moving back so the kids can get started on their school year, and then he plans to move back at a later time, once things are sorted out with their business. Truth is, you DON'T know that they are "separating". My version of events could be just as valid, since neither of us has heard the story from his wife's mouth.
Author CAT100 Posted November 7, 2008 Author Posted November 7, 2008 Um, this is the guy who won't get a divorce because of the kids needing two parents at home? And the guy who cheated on both his wife and you with yet another OW? Really? How exactly is he going to spend his life making it up to you when he is still married and isn't even thinking about a divorce? Same old, same old. He wants what he wants, and he doesn't give a damn how that keeps you hanging onto a MM with no intentions of divorce. What kind of life is that for you, a woman 23 years younger than him?! Don't you want your own life, your own family, a man who doesn't have a wife and who knows how many other women he's dallying with? Thank you for the reply, I think you missed the bit in my post where I said he is separating from his W- she is coming back to live here after christmas, with the children. He will still have access to them at holidays, some weekends etc. Of course I want a family and a normal life, now he is splitting from his W he can give that to me. I am not worried about the age gap, its not a problem for me
cashley Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 OMG. OKAY LISTEN!!! MY Lovley X, said EXACTLY the same things when I left him...i mean exactly, including the throwing up dramatics. The promise to devote the rest of his life to making me happy, the promise that he had woken up and admitted he was awful, and knew exactly how he had to change... That attitude lasted until he found someone new. we spoke today, and I believe i was told to F off...in other words...no they dont change. God your post is helping me! Reading your post made me realise, these guys are tarred with the same brush. The BS brush. Dont bother, wipe the years away, along with your tears, and get on with YOUR life. goodluck and i believe there is better out there. The devil you know isnt always the best bet. I want to believe in angels.X Im a 'recovering' victim.
Author CAT100 Posted November 7, 2008 Author Posted November 7, 2008 NJ- yes I see your point. I dont know from his W that they are separating. He just told me that they decided to face up to the fact that the M wasnt working. And she wanted to return here with the kids as all her family & friends are here, and she got a good job offer here. It puts me in a difficult position, maybe I should ask him to ask her to call me- after all he did say he would do 'anything' to prove how serious he was. His W has known of me for years, Ive met her a few times. She and I have always been civilised to one another strangely enough. If I could find out if he is telling the truth about them separating it might help me make a decision?
Author CAT100 Posted November 7, 2008 Author Posted November 7, 2008 (((((cashley))) thank you for that post. Sometimes Im really strong and I just think f**k him, just run and never look back. Othertimes I hear him crying, begging me and my heart softens and I think maybe one last chance.. I think the worst thing is knowing Ive invested 6.5 years and never even got what I waited so patiently for- living with him. Maybe thats what keeps me holding on, the thought of 'what if' I did give him another chance and we were really happy I think Im just having a big problem with accepting I have lost him, I cant get my head around it
norajane Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 And she wanted to return here with the kids as all her family & friends are here, and she got a good job offer here. THIS is where the truth probably lies. She got a job and wants to move back where her family is and friends are. And, he's going to mind the business abroad for a while, as she gets their household up and running, and see if it's worth it to keep the business running abroad. And sure, they probably did talk about how often he'd be able to see the kids, but not necessarily because they are "separating" but because they'll be apart as they CONTINUE to manage their finances and family together. If I could find out if he is telling the truth about them separating it might help me make a decision? Personally, if I were you, I wouldn't give a crap whether they are separating or not. He's a toad. He cheated on you with another woman. He's been stringing you along for a long time...over SIX YEARS!!!!! I'd stop talking with him and never look back, never take him back.
norajane Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 (((((cashley))) thank you for that post. Sometimes Im really strong and I just think f**k him, just run and never look back. Othertimes I hear him crying, begging me and my heart softens and I think maybe one last chance.. I think the worst thing is knowing Ive invested 6.5 years and never even got what I waited so patiently for- living with him. Maybe thats what keeps me holding on, the thought of 'what if' I did give him another chance and we were really happy I think Im just having a big problem with accepting I have lost him, I cant get my head around it That's why you need to stop talking to him, period. You don't want to waste ANOTHER 6.5 years with nothing to show for it at the end except a weenie MARRIED man who is lying to you. You haven't lost him. You never had him. He's always been with his wife, and assorted other women. DUMP HIM FOR GOOD and get on with your life!!!
whichwayisup Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 You're going to do what you're going to do, but I just hope you don't wait another 6.5 years for him. Put a time limit on this. Let's say if he isn't legally separated or divorced by (you decide the year and date) then you walk. Your life is being put on hold in everyway for this guy and he isn't worth it. I honestly don't see what you see in him. He's cheated on his wife, cheated on you with another OW, so what makes you think he won't cheat on you IF you two do end up together? This guy is scum.
Mino Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 NJ- yes I see your point. I dont know from his W that they are separating. He just told me that they decided to face up to the fact that the M wasnt working. And she wanted to return here with the kids as all her family & friends are here, and she got a good job offer here. It puts me in a difficult position, maybe I should ask him to ask her to call me- after all he did say he would do 'anything' to prove how serious he was. His W has known of me for years, Ive met her a few times. She and I have always been civilised to one another strangely enough. If I could find out if he is telling the truth about them separating it might help me make a decision? Hi Cat.. I will be a little more optimistic then everyone eles, because I do know that some mm have alot of guilt because of the children, and they want to do the right thing. They feel if they stay, and be selfless, stay in a loveless M because that is what is expected of them.. My op is that time will catch up with them sooner or later. No one in their right mind can stay in a loveless situation forever. Sure some m can be saved, but not all...So giving him the benifit of the doubt, that he has done some soul searching.... and he knows he wants you, heres my suggestion... Tell him that you want to talk to his Wife....You want permission to contact her and ask her permission to now date him since they will be divorcing...If he says no... its just another setup...If he says Yes, do it... call her.... This way you are not getting involved blindly....and therefore you may have a chance... Oh and another thing... dont go right away... I have learned through my own situation, that they do need time to heal, they do go through several stages of grieving, mourning, depression... he will not be there for you doing this time, difficult to watch them go through this ... all you can do it pray they will be ok... in time so you have a chance of a healthly R in the future
Mino Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Well the fact that he is finally separating from his W is a big change. For years he has been having As and she has turned a blind eye 'for the sake of the kids' but now they have decided they cannot live together, and he will still have access to his kids but not be with his W. This, to me is a big step in him taking responsibility and not having his cake and eating it, as he has done in the past It may be just a trial seperation, she may be going back because the children are homesick, or the economy... who knows,,,,, thats why I said ask im if you have his permission to call her and get BOTH SIDES of the story... This will be the ONLY way you know, and of coarse a set of seperation papers... Good Luck sweetie... Call him out on it!!!!
DealingWDrama Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I think you should ask him to define separating from his wife...physically they will be separated...but are they emotionally and legally? Sounds like she is returning to an area for some other reason than to prepare to divorce or be 'separated' from her husband.
Mino Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 You're going to do what you're going to do, but I just hope you don't wait another 6.5 years for him. Put a time limit on this. Let's say if he isn't legally separated or divorced by (you decide the year and date) then you walk. Your life is being put on hold in everyway for this guy and he isn't worth it. I honestly don't see what you see in him. He's cheated on his wife, cheated on you with another OW, so what makes you think he won't cheat on you IF you two do end up together? This guy is scum.oops.... He cheated on her with another woman... I think I missed that:mad:
Owl Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I'm assuming that after all the histrionics that went on the other night while he took your call at home that his wife knows that the two of you are in an affair again? If so...I say, call her directly. Call the house sometime again when you know that she's there...and ask her point blank about the seperation. If they ARE seperating, and she knows about the affair, what's this going to hurt?
Mino Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 oops.... He cheated on her with another woman... I think I missed that:mad: NOOOOOOOO time to DUMP HIM !! if he cheated with another woman, he is a serial cheater.... and honey THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE!!! its not about love for them its all bout the CHASE!!
frannie Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 Hi Cat. It must have been hard to hear him sounding so low. But please don't forget what he did to you in the past. I know it's hard, because of all these years and emotion invested. He's taken the best part of your youth. To me, an outsider, it would seem to be far better NOT to throw away more of it on a man who never showed you one iota of respect, and still doesn't from his continued begging, selfish behaviour. Because it's not about you. He's all about HIM and his wants. And i know... you're the type to want to make it all better for him. Which is why he's on the phone to you and vomiting in the small hours. He knows what it does to you. And I want to smack him round the head for it. As other people have said, this 'separation' with his W is more likely about their continued oddity of a marriage, she knows what he is and accepts it and so living apart is probably something she feels quite happy with, for the financial benefits and social convenience and appearances. This isn't a story of a man finally coming to his senses and ending his marriage. It's a story of a man who likes to have several irons in the fire. And as wifey toddles off to Britain he pulls out a few stops to get one of his OW to join him and make a few new memories and fill in a bit of time. I'm sorry I'm sounding harsh here, Cat, but this man of yours makes me really angry Ack. At the very least contact his W or one or other of his other OW and see what the score is. Because otherwise you're going to drift back into this...
2sure Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I would not surprised if when you call the other two women he was sleeping with, at the same time as you - you would just have a repeat of the same scenerio you have had twice before. If not them this time, then I suppose you can wait until you have other women's phone numbers. Meanwhile....you love this man. OK. He has qualities you enjoy so much you are willing to overlook his less than savory actions. Everyone has faults, comfort levels, etc...you love him. Thats ok!! But you need to acknowledge the facts. 1. He is a DRAMA QUEEN! Between the wife, the employee, you , and the OW, this is not about sex, affection,insecurity, or anything other than the need for constant drama. He enjoys the tragedy and the entertainment. He loves the roles he plays in every part. 2. He is a CRYBABY BITC*. You, the employee, the OW, and I'm sure his Wife...have all seen/heard the tears before. 3. He is a Serial Cheater. Obviously. His wife has apparently come to terms with this, realizes it has nothing to do with her or the marriage ...and for reasons of her own is dealing with how she wants. She knows he isnt going to change. Above all else, this man wants unconditional love and by not completely divorcing him, his wife offers that. He will never divorce her. So, all that is fine. And look, it is OK for you to love him. You dont have to question it or fight it...but you are going to have to acknowledge that these are the terms. This is who he is.
Mino Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 OMG There are two other women also? Get on your knees right now and thank God He is far away...change your phone number... I do not say this lightly.. my guy is married too,(seperated now) I know the pain you have... But this guy is totally damaged...He is cheating with many ow as I read here. BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN... beyond repair:sick:
norajane Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I'm assuming that after all the histrionics that went on the other night while he took your call at home that his wife knows that the two of you are in an affair again? If so...I say, call her directly. Call the house sometime again when you know that she's there...and ask her point blank about the seperation. If they ARE seperating, and she knows about the affair, what's this going to hurt? Owl, he cheated on CAT with yet another woman, besides staying married. Are you really encouraging her to continue with this man? She's already wasted over 6 years of her life hanging onto him. And she's 23 years younger than he is...when is she going to start her own family with a man who is available both emotionally as well as legally if she keeps chasing after this nutjob?
Owl Posted November 7, 2008 Posted November 7, 2008 I'm offering a suggestion for the OP to work through the problems at hand. Do I think she should be with this guy? Nope...but my opinion on whether or not she's better off with her or not isn't what she's looking for at this point, so I've left that out of my advice. But...I'd bet talking with the wife would shed a lot more light that could lead to the end of her involvment with him at some point.
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