I'd like to say a few things...

[Owl]

Interesting points, Frannie.

 

I don't agree completely with you, but that's neithe here nor there. I get your point about the "truths"...I would refer to them as "perceptions'...but again, I see what you're trying to say.

 

I don't think it'll change my particular version of "one size fits most" advice that I tend to give. Perhaps because my 'perception' is so firmly set in my mind.

 

But...you provide a well thought out viewpoint. Thank you!

[Lookingforward]

Interesting points, Frannie.

 

I don't agree completely with you, but that's neithe here nor there. I get your point about the "truths"...I would refer to them as "perceptions'...but again, I see what you're trying to say.

 

I don't think it'll change my particular version of "one size fits most" advice that I tend to give. Perhaps because my 'perception' is so firmly set in my mind.

 

But...you provide a well thought out viewpoint. Thank you!

 

That's all "truth as told by..." ever is though Owl.... reality from one person's viewpoint.

 

What if in your case they had actually met (even if only once) before you discovered the affair. Would that have changed your perspective and actions, motives?

 

As frannie says, some people can forgive things and others just can't.

[Owl]

I can see that...and thinking about it, if you look at my responses to most BS's, my first question is normally..."what do you want?".

 

I can see that they have two general courses of action...reconciliation or divorce.

 

Since I don't know divorce, I can only give generalized advice on that. I do know reconciliation...so my advice on that is usually a little more in depth.

 

And on the OW/OM front, its similar. Either the affair succeeds in becoming a long term relationship, or it doesn't.

 

I can't post much advice on one that succeeds...but Owoman and GEL both can provide that viewpoint very well. I can however provide input on ones that don't...because PERSONAL recovery from that kind of emotional trauma tends to follow the very same patterns, regardless of the actual crisis that created it.

 

Good points...

[stampdaddy]

What I'm saying about facts/situations vs. our individual 'truths' is this. That the situations may be very similar, but our interpretations of them, and thus our reactions to them and in some cases the outcomes may be very different. Which is why one size does not fit all in terms of 'advice'.

 

For example, SD above said that his babygirl turned out in his eyes to be nothing more than a cake-eater. Someone else in his situation might see her as a flawed human being who is deserving of love and has made some mistakes, and might even keep a door open for future possibilities. Of course that leaves the OP in a hideously vulnerable, useless and stuck place, so that particular 'truth' might well be counter-productive (and is to SD!). Other people might not have such a problem with moving on and leaving a love-that-wasn't-to-be behind without the necessity of demonising their ex (I'm not one of them, btw, in case it appears I'm being superior here ).

 

But then there's your situation, Owl. Most people know that your W cheated on you online, you caught her before she actually met the guy, and you decided to reconcile, believing her to be a flawed human being who is deserving of love and has made some mistakes, presumably. Others might not believe in that 'truth', might have problems trusting, might end up divorcing her anyway. The fact is, the circumstances would be no different, the 'truth' as seen through yours or anothers eyes would be.

 

Hence, my original point: all one can do, in my opinion, is to help the poster to examine the situation and find their way through, and make their own decisions. I can't imagine you, Owl, for example, would have been very interested in reading posts INSISTING that you divorce your W, who you love and want a future with, because "once a cheater always a cheater" and "she'll do it to you again", etc. etc.

 

she WAS deserving of love and understanding and I gave that to her and then some, and then some more and then some more, which DID put me into a hideously vunerable, useless and stuck place. A VERY dangerous place for me and my health, my heart, my soul and what I have to offer going forward... Now I am the one that is flawed.........

[Kim666]

I guess I have to wonder why some people on here find it hard to believe that

 

1. some of us are not serial cheaters

2. and that we can be happy in that path we have chosen

 

I would rather spend one absolutely perfect day with my MM then ever have him leave his W and come and live with me.

 

We both know where they other is coming from and we have never had any regrets or hard feelings.

 

He has his commitments and I have mine.

 

Maybe I am biased since I originally left him and went into a marriage that turned out to be horrid and have now found happiness with him again and am enjoying my freedom.

 

I can understand that some people feel used or feel that women like me are hurting the W but everyone makes choices and no matter what I don't really think anyone has the right to say anyone else's choices are wrong.

 

How can anyone know what is good for another person?

[Owl]

 

I can understand that some people feel used or feel that women like me are hurting the W but everyone makes choices and no matter what I don't really think anyone has the right to say anyone else's choices are wrong.

 

How can anyone know what is good for another person?

 

When your choices hurt those around you, people can absolutely 'judge' the impacts of them, and make the choice of "good vs bad".

 

We can know what is good for another person by using empathy. Not sympathy...empathy. Put ourselves in their position...see it from that angle...and see what the outcome and impacts to everyone involved are.

 

Do you think that your relationship with MM does NOT hurt his wife in any fashion whatsoever? Really?

 

Have you mentally/emotionally put yourself into her shoes, and imagined what things are like on that front? That's empathy.

 

We (BS's) can do the same thing from our side of things. I did so in my case. I really do understand where OM was coming from. I KNOW that he was devestated by the whole situation horribly...make no mistake about it. Does that make what he did right? Nope. It wasn't right for him to interfere and intrude on my marriage. What he did to my wife, what he did to me...and even what he ultimately did to himself shows that.

 

The IMPACT from his choices (you know, what everyone has the ability to make)...the outcome...demonstrate the 'right or wrong'.

 

If you knowingly, intentionally take an action that is completely self-centered and garaunteed to cause massive emotional trauma to someone else (his wife)...is that right or wrong by your moral code? Would it be equally acceptable for someone to inflict that same trauma on you, solely for their own personal gain?

 

We are ALL responsible for our choices, and the outcome of them.

 

If I choose to drink and run over some guy on my way home from the bar...I'm RESPONSIBLE for that choice, and the outcome. I made the CHOICE to drink and drive. If I choose to have an affair with a woman...I'm responsible for the outcome of that action. I become responsible for the pain and trauma that would inflict on my wife, on my kids, and on her husband and family if she were married.

[Kim666]

Wow...that certainly was a mouthful...as I have stated o so many times before she knows all about me and I am not his first, nor am I sure will I be his last.

 

He has had OW in his life from the time he was first married.

 

Does that make him right? Who am I to judge him? I am now his OW and I can honestly say no it does not bother me.

 

I have lived thru hell and back in more ways then ANYONE on here can imagine.

 

Can you honestly say that you can put yourself in my shoes and know what it is like to be beaten, verbally abused and tortured every day...I doubt it and most people couldn't.

 

I made a choice to stay in that marriage..my mistake entirely.

 

This was my choice as well and I am not sorry I made it. No matter what I am happy for the first time in many many years.

 

So everyone and anyone can judge me and say what they like...I will take one day of happiness over a lifetime of misery anytime

[whichwayisup]

Can you honestly say that you can put yourself in my shoes and know what it is like to be beaten, verbally abused and tortured every day...I doubt it and most people couldn't.

 

Again, and I've said this many times, I am sorry that you suffered throughout your marriage, but you can't use that as a justification to help a man cheat on his wife. Whether or not she knows doesn't matter - Fact is, you are taking away time and energy away from her and their kids. You're allowing this man to be a cheater for your own purposes. Sure, you aren't inlove with him and he's giving you a huge ego boost - It's just in the process ALOT OF INNOCENT people are getting hurt and you don't care.

[Owl]

Wow...that certainly was a mouthful...as I have stated o so many times before she knows all about me and I am not his first, nor am I sure will I be his last.

 

He has had OW in his life from the time he was first married.

 

Does that make him right? Who am I to judge him? I am now his OW and I can honestly say no it does not bother me.

 

I have lived thru hell and back in more ways then ANYONE on here can imagine.

 

Can you honestly say that you can put yourself in my shoes and know what it is like to be beaten, verbally abused and tortured every day...I doubt it and most people couldn't.

 

I made a choice to stay in that marriage..my mistake entirely.

 

This was my choice as well and I am not sorry I made it. No matter what I am happy for the first time in many many years.

 

So everyone and anyone can judge me and say what they like...I will take one day of happiness over a lifetime of misery anytime

 

I can totally see how you'd accept that one day of happiness over a lifetime of misery...don't take me wrong.

 

Do you think his wife would agree to giving you that one day of happiness at the expense of what SHE'LL go through as a result of it?

 

Was she given the choice in the matter? Or was she subjected to this emotional trauma without any say in the matter, just as YOU were when you were beaten?

 

If this WERE just all about you...there'd be absolutely nothing wrong with it.

 

But its NOT. And that is the huge distinction you're avoiding.

[Kim666]

O when did I say I never cared...don't remember those words being typed but I could be wrong.

 

You are right maybe I am using him for my own purposes.

 

I highly doubt at this point in the 20 year or so marriage she is hurt since she knows he has had several affairs...I could be wrong who knows.

 

I have never and will never take him from his commitments and would never attempt to just as he would never attempt to take me from mine.

 

And I hardly think I am enabling him to be a cheater, he was before I met him and will be when I end it.

[stampdaddy]

I smell a threadjack.....

[Owl]

C'mon SD...where was this thread headed before this??? LOL...last I knew, we were talking about you hooking up with other LS'ers, and little Owlish kittens!

[stampdaddy]

C'mon SD...where was this thread headed before this??? LOL...last I knew, we were talking about you hooking up with other LS'ers, and little Owlish kittens!

 

just kidding around, sh*t, I may be the king of thread jacks....

 

but I have my feelings on my sleeve today and posted the following:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by frannie What I'm saying about facts/situations vs. our individual 'truths' is this. That the situations may be very similar, but our interpretations of them, and thus our reactions to them and in some cases the outcomes may be very different. Which is why one size does not fit all in terms of 'advice'.

 

For example, SD above said that his babygirl turned out in his eyes to be nothing more than a cake-eater. Someone else in his situation might see her as a flawed human being who is deserving of love and has made some mistakes, and might even keep a door open for future possibilities. Of course that leaves the OP in a hideously vulnerable, useless and stuck place, so that particular 'truth' might well be counter-productive (and is to SD!). Other people might not have such a problem with moving on and leaving a love-that-wasn't-to-be behind without the necessity of demonising their ex (I'm not one of them, btw, in case it appears I'm being superior here ).

 

But then there's your situation, Owl. Most people know that your W cheated on you online, you caught her before she actually met the guy, and you decided to reconcile, believing her to be a flawed human being who is deserving of love and has made some mistakes, presumably. Others might not believe in that 'truth', might have problems trusting, might end up divorcing her anyway. The fact is, the circumstances would be no different, the 'truth' as seen through yours or anothers eyes would be.

 

Hence, my original point: all one can do, in my opinion, is to help the poster to examine the situation and find their way through, and make their own decisions. I can't imagine you, Owl, for example, would have been very interested in reading posts INSISTING that you divorce your W, who you love and want a future with, because "once a cheater always a cheater" and "she'll do it to you again", etc. etc.

 

 

she WAS deserving of love and understanding and I gave that to her and then some, and then some more and then some more, which DID put me into a hideously vunerable, useless and stuck place. A VERY dangerous place for me and my health, my heart, my soul and what I have to offer going forward... Now I am the one that is flawed.........

[Owl]

Well, here's my thoughts, SD.

 

You're NOT "flawed".

 

You're hurt. You're heartbroken. But that's temporary. You'll heal. And after that, you won't be "flawed"...you'll be WISER.

 

Don't worry so much right now about "flawed". Worry about healing...focus on taking care of yourself and your family...that will be the key to healing from all of this.

[MizzBlue72]

haha - SHAGDADDY!

 

I like ......!

[stampdaddy]

haha - SHAGDADDY!

 

I like ......!

 

you'd like it better if the Daddy shagged ya!

[Tomcat33]

whooooooo??? tell me, tell me.. Let me guess, TC and OWL??

 

Could you imagine the children???

 

Beaks and fluffy tails...and horribly, horribly, horribly conflicted!!!!! ROFL!!!

 

So THIS is what goes on when I am not around? I am suddenly having little "Cowls or Owats" with OWL? And c'mon SD everyone knows a Cowl goes "mewhoot mewhoot" not "Meooowl" (I like "meowl" though that one cracked me right up!)

 

 

Sdiddymac is coming around the mountain, ahhhhh yeaaaah! I can't get over this thread, I am SO elated to read this and to see you FINALLY see the light. I knew you had it in you!! Keep on truckin'

 

By the way I haven't even been around here for a while but the minute an OWL vs TC reference is made my feline instincts kick in and I hear it calling me like the sound of a can opening.

[pelicanpreacher]

Wow...that certainly was a mouthful...as I have stated o so many times before she knows all about me and I am not his first, nor am I sure will I be his last.

 

He has had OW in his life from the time he was first married.

 

Does that make him right? Who am I to judge him? I am now his OW and I can honestly say no it does not bother me.

 

I have lived thru hell and back in more ways then ANYONE on here can imagine.

 

Can you honestly say that you can put yourself in my shoes and know what it is like to be beaten, verbally abused and tortured every day...I doubt it and most people couldn't.

 

I made a choice to stay in that marriage..my mistake entirely.

 

This was my choice as well and I am not sorry I made it. No matter what I am happy for the first time in many many years.

 

So everyone and anyone can judge me and say what they like...I will take one day of happiness over a lifetime of misery anytime

 

You've suffered through years of abuse at the hands of your husband and every new incident of abuse hurt just as badly as the previous one, right? Well, it therefore stands to reason that every new affair your MM's BS suffered at his hands hurts her just as badly as the previous one. You both opted to stay in your marriages while enduring abuse for reasons known only to either of you so that's a point we won't debate here. The only difference between you two is she hasn't reached that point yet where she just can't take it anymore and leaves the marriage as you did.

 

To flip the script on your opinion of who's getting hurt in your affair, what if, during your marriage, the abuse commited against you by your husband was also accompanied by the actions of another person he'd recruited to aid him in making your life miserable? Would you honestly feel that this second person should be less culpable for your pain just because you didn't exchange vows with them?

 

You, as the OW are getting the best of your MM while his BS either gets scraps or the worst. Remember that the love and intimacy he withdraws from his wife to bestow upon you hurts her. The time and energy he withdraws from her to devote to you hurts her. The emotional and spiritual support he withdraws from her to invest in you hurts her. What he does give her though is all the negativity of his being that he, remarkably, never shows you. This may be acceptable to you right now but read farther!

 

She may now be lonely, insecure, depressed, confused, hopeless, and without the drive and self-esteem to believe in starting all over in a future on her own as a result and you have been specifically recruited by your MM to aid in him in the ongoing torment of his wife to keep her paralysed in a state of indecision! Is there any way you can argue with this logic?

 

I can only hope that she reaches the same breaking point you did, leaves the marriage, and rips him so bad financially that he'll rue the day he was ever born so, keep up the pressure by staying in the affair and everyone will get exactly what they deserve! She'll get her freedom and fresh start with a big chunk of his a$$ on her way out the door and you'll be left with an angry, embittered, and financially shattered narcissistic serial cheating "momma's boy" who'll take all his frustrations out on you for a change!

 

How ya like them apples?!!

[Owl]

So THIS is what goes on when I am not around? I am suddenly having little "Cowls or Owats" with OWL? And c'mon SD everyone knows a Cowl goes "mewhoot mewhoot" not "Meooowl" (I like "meowl" though that one cracked me right up!)

 

 

Sdiddymac is coming around the mountain, ahhhhh yeaaaah! I can't get over this thread, I am SO elated to read this and to see you FINALLY see the light. I knew you had it in you!! Keep on truckin'

 

By the way I haven't even been around here for a while but the minute an OWL vs TC reference is made my feline instincts kick in and I hear it calling me like the sound of a can opening.

 

 

LOL...this was a funny when it came up for sure...I almost spit out my drink when I read it!

 

I can also hear the little 'mewhoots' now...the poor little things would be so conflicted...do I fly, or do I pounce?

 

Good thing the world will never know...you and I do more good sitting on polar opposites of things anyhow...when the two of us are in a thread, people are garaunteed to hear diverse opinions and advice for sure...that's prolly a good thing a lot of the time.

[Terminator]

I really don't think this saga is over yet.

 

Sure SD is going through the "I would never ever take her back now" stuff, but as we all know, before it's "truly over and done" there a lot of stages and phases to be gone through and this has only been "officially" over for a very short time.

 

I expect to see more posts where Stamp swings back and forth, much as he may state his resolve is firm right now.

 

We'll be here for you when you do SD.

[stampdaddy]

I really don't think this saga is over yet.

 

Sure SD is going through the "I would never ever take her back now" stuff, but as we all know, before it's "truly over and done" there a lot of stages and phases to be gone through and this has only been "officially" over for a very short time.

 

I expect to see more posts where Stamp swings back and forth, much as he may state his resolve is firm right now.

 

We'll be here for you when you do SD.

 

well, I appreciate what you are saying, and I know that you all will be here for me if I WERE to stumble.. I have been "stumbling" for years now.. I am done. I have done everything I can possibly do to eradicate this from my life...

Let me explain: First, I CHERISHED us, from day one.. the night we met, her glow, the first call to me, the next time we met, the first kiss (even wrote a poem about that kiss, saying it would either be the greatest kiss of my life, OR the worst form of heartbreak), the day I moved in to my house, EVERYDAY, I cherished... EVERYDAY was a lie!!! and we were together just about everyday..

 

All of the cards and letters that described these days: GONE

All of the pictures and memories of these days: GONE

All of "her things": GONE

All hope: GONE

All want: GONE

All need: GONE

All desire: GONE

All love: slowly dying

 

and the most important piece of me, My Romance for her, living my life as the poem, "Come Grow Old with ME..." DESTROYED

 

and then there is this "technical factor": it was going to be hard enough on us IF everything was done RIGHT, we started off as an Affair, right? It would be impossible now, no way we could we make it, and IF we did, we would be a VERY lonely COUPLE, cause that is all we would be, just the 2 of us, with no family, no friends for a long time, no respect, no more "beautiful steps that brought us here", nothing to be "thankful for", a lifetime of asking God for forgiveness as a couple...

 

So, I think I am doing OK.. Hate to argue with you, but......

[Owl]

I think SD has finally 'got it'.

 

I do think he's moved the right direction for real this time. And if he hasn't...he's going to get a feathery size 10 implant!

[whichwayisup]

Yup me too. He's "got it" and "woken up" to the reality of his situation - She has chosen to stay at home, reguardless of her reasons (wants to work on the marriage, or doesn't want to give up her kids, change their lives, or money reasons) - It doesn't matter, she's made her choice and now SD has closed and locked the door, thrown away the key.

 

I 100% believe that if she showed up at SD's door, he would NOT take her back, let alone have a heart to heart with her. If anything, he'd tell her to go away and never come back again.

[Terminator]

Please understand, I'm not saying he isn't going to stick to his resolve as far as taking up with her again, but I do think his feelings will still go back and forth a lot yet.

 

That was what I meant. There will be days where he hates her and days where he "wishes", but it's all good.

 

All progress is good progress, and all he really needs is "one good love"

[stampdaddy]

Please understand, I'm not saying he isn't going to stick to his resolve as far as taking up with her again, but I do think his feelings will still go back and forth a lot yet.

 

That was what I meant. There will be days where he hates her and days where he "wishes", but it's all good.

 

All progress is good progress, and all he really needs is "one good love"

 

Oh, I am sure there will be "emotional" moments, I am sure, but NONE of them will be about wanting her back, AND, I won't be one to get all upset at myself from mistakes made, I just will focus on not naking them anymore...