Mustang Sally Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Life and conflict are a lot more bearable when we can recognise our own more ridiculous and flawed aspects, and laugh at them. Hear, hear! (Please accept my amendment to the above statement.) Ask me how I would know this... Seriously. I have absolutely no idea what the undertones of this thread are about as I have been away for awhile (and may need to go again! ) and choose not to even attempt to try to go back and review whatever history might have led to the creation of this thread. But, taking it at face-value (and admittedly uninformed face-value, at that), I would simply say that I have found that in the past when I have gotten so involved in LS and the goings-on here, that they have caused discord for me in my actual and real life, that then I am in most desperate need of a sabbatical from this place - to get my priorities straight, get over myself, and get back to REAL LIFE. That's what matters anyway - real life - is it not? <cue music: "Back to Life...Back to Re-al-i-ty..."> Your mileage may vary, of course.
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 The day that I take any anger or upset from what is said to me on here is the day I throw my PC out of the window!
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 That would be a dead giveaway now, wouldn't it?! Hahhahha.......... for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shadowplay Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Hear, hear! (Please accept my amendment to the above statement.) Ask me how I would know this... Seriously. I have absolutely no idea what the undertones of this thread are about as I have been away for awhile (and may need to go again! ) and choose not to even attempt to try to go back and review whatever history might have led to the creation of this thread. But, taking it at face-value (and admittedly uninformed face-value, at that), I would simply say that I have found that in the past when I have gotten so involved in LS and the goings-on here, that they have caused discord for me in my actual and real life, that then I am in most desperate need of a sabbatical from this place - to get my priorities straight, get over myself, and get back to REAL LIFE. That's what matters anyway - real life - is it not? <cue music: "Back to Life...Back to Re-al-i-ty..."> Your mileage may vary, of course. You should go back and read some of the earlier posts in this thread because they are quite insightful. The original discussion didn't just pertain to LS, but broader observations on human nature and interpersonal relationships. Unfortunately it has devolved somewhat in the last few pages. But I agree with you that we all get too wrapped up in the drama on this board from time to time.
Mustang Sally Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Thanks, Shadow. Actually I did read all of the thread. In its entirety. And I agree that there are many posts that are very insightful about human interactions in conflict. My thanks to all who contributed these interesting (to me, anyway) points. What I'm not understanding is the origination of are the apparent undertones. I'm thinking I obviously missed out on some drama while I was gone.... Eh, well. That's the way it goes, and it's no doubt a good thing. I was just pointing out that when I find myself taking offense and creating my own drama on here (as I have to embarassingly admit I have done, from time to time, in my own little mind and world) that I have learned to tell myself it's time to Step. Away. From. The. Keyboard. That's all. Maybe too simplistic a view, on my part? I dunno. <shrugging>
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Mustang Sally, you can see there's undertones and some blatant overtones without being involved in the original dramas. This falls into exactly what I'm saying about this thread drawing out the worst in people, be it dragging out past grievances, leveling passive-aggressive attacks or defences against such. The drama triangle continues on and on and on, everyone switching roles at some time or another. There are no innocents in the triangle.
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 I've said it a million times on this thread! So what's the point of this thread? To display bad behaviours while pointing fingers?
Mustang Sally Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Ah, Leoni. There is certainly truth to what you are saying, as well. I've been chided and, nay - even derided! - in the past for my simplistic view of taking most everything on LS at face value... But hey - it works for me. I certainly don't have the makings of a Queen Bee. Just satisfied with being one of the workers on occasion...
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 We all have to ask ourselves why we are posting on here still There is obviously alot to be said and everyone is skirting around the edges and too scared to come out with it, that is because some people are very quick on the 'report' button!
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 If I were a man, I could easily fall in love with you Mustang Sally.
Star Gazer Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Everything I said to you came true did it not? You just didn't like what I said as you was not ready or able to see it, but in the end you saw it! There is no apology needed on my behalf or I would have said sorry! In fact, I feel it was YOU who needed to apologise for the way you jumped on me for stating facts and trying to help you! It was the manner in which you said all you had to say. If it wasn't bad, it wouldn't have been deleted, and you wouldn't have been suspended. Stop the nonsense, Lishy.
Mustang Sally Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 If I were a man, I could easily fall in love with you Mustang Sally. Well! How nice of you to say! Lishy, I (after reading these last few pages) agree with you that there must be issues. But I guess I just don't really know what they are, or why they are coming up now - in this thread. Obviously, I am participating in the rubbernecking today, because I have to admit, my curiosity has been piqued by this whole undertone-thing (Shame on me - seriously ). In addition, as I already stated, to finding the face-value of many of the posts here quite informative in general. Probably best that I just move along, though. So I'm over and out for now. Carry on, folks.
shadowplay Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Well! How nice of you to say! Lishy, I (after reading these last few pages) agree with you that there must be issues. But I guess I just don't really know what they are, or why they are coming up now - in this thread. Obviously, I am participating in the rubbernecking today, because I have to admit, my curiosity has been piqued by this whole undertone-thing (Shame on me - seriously ). In addition, as I already stated, to finding the face-value of many of the posts here quite informative in general. Probably best that I just move along, though. So I'm over and out for now. Carry on, folks. The "undertones" pertained to a thread LaurieBell started that has since been locked (you can find it in the Dating section). Many of us were appalled by the behavior of a few posters who seemed to be bullying LB (calling her names like "spoiled brat" or "selfish" and so forth) and clearly didn't have her best interests at heart. LB ended up leaving the thread -- probably a wise choice. This led to a discussion about where to draw the line on an advice forum between tough love and blatant nastiness.
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Actually, there are far, far more undertones than that, if you're being honest shadowplay. I think this thread should officially be called the personal grievance thread for a flagrant display of airing out nurtured harboured resentments!
shadowplay Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Actually, there are far, far more undertones than that, if you're being honest shadowplay. I think this thread should officially be called the personal grievance thread for a flagrant display of airing out nurtured harboured resentments! Yes there are deeper undertones because this behavior has popped up in many threads but came to a head in this particular one. Mustang can read the thread and decide for herself if she has any interest.
grogster Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 You're right that gender plays a role. It has to do with the romantic focus of this forum. Relationship talk brings out the cattiness in women because so much female insecurity is rooted in the romantic realm. When men get nasty it's usually about other subjects like politics, sports, sexual conquests, etc. Women are also more likely to stick it to other women in a place that really hurts, preying on insecurities. They know exactly what nerves to hit in another woman. Men can be giant aholes too, and I believe they often have less kindness and empathy than women, but their aggression takes a more blatant, detached and general form. They're less likely to carefully pick apart another man's insecurities. They also are less deceptive about doing so. They don't fake niceness and then lash out when the opportunity strikes as bitchy women do. It's a different form of aggression. Not better or worse. Wow! You articulated beautifully what I was attempting to express. Excellent post, shadowplay.
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 shadowplay, what is being displayed is called manipulative behaviour. It appears to me that some are using this platform as a form of revenge, for personal gain.
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Actually, there are far, far more undertones than that, if you're being honest shadowplay. I think this thread should officially be called the personal grievance thread for a flagrant display of airing out nurtured harboured resentments! I think that is really what is needed. Sort all this rot out once and for all and be a happy lil family! I doubt we could start a thread like that could we?
Leoni Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 So this is what it's come to? The airing of dirty laundry? I'm not going to do it but I could easily link examples of appalling behaviour by each and every one of the members who post frequently, including and especially the persecutors aka finger-pointers. Even within the confines of this thread, many of the same bad behaviours are being displayed. I do understand myself and can see my own behaviours. There's no question that I'm not perfect and have never once said so. Are people so blind that they can't see themselves for who they are? Do they feel they need to leverage off others, in order to self-assauge?
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 shadowplay, what is being displayed is called manipulative behaviour. It appears to me that some are using this platform as a form of revenge, for personal gain. Or maybe some people are easier to bully than others?
Tomcat33 Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Perhaps it comes down to a place of personal nurture? I've had plenty of tough love/consequence as I grew up. Nothing extreme, although, ask my preteen self and I'm sure I would have a different story to tell. I don't come from a familial line of coddlers I do come from a line of understanding and open communication big difference, in your face deal with the concequences type communication but understanding none the less. That was my upbringing, no one in my family kicked me when I was down, all the contrary and there was plenty time to tell us "I told you so" the main goal when we were down was to get us out of the rut once we were strong again, then they layed it in on us nice and thick LOL To this day we respect each other's pain even if it is self inflicted we respect each other's journey and offer unconditional support. I do think we need to define "tough love", and "coddling" that would be a good place to start. On another note, while upbringing does play into how we handle conflict as adults maturity level plays into that as well and so does personal responsibility we can either feel sorry for how we were brought up or and use our pasts as a crutch OR we can assume responsibility for our actions and act accordingly. Kicking someone when they are down is not assuming responsibility for one's actions it is projection. Personally, I would prefer to be told an ugly truth then coddled into a blanket of soft denial. However, I realize that not all people can step up to the plate and take the ball that may be pitched to them. I do get that. And this is what makes this world and human beings so darn interesting because personally I would want a person who knows abosulutely nothing about me to shut the f'up when it comes to telling me what is right and wrong for me unless I sepecifically ask them for that. When what I am asking is not "is this wrong or right" but rather "what would YOU do in this instance?" or "what is your experience with this?". So I can empathise with those that feel like their point is not being heard AT ALL and instead they are being attacked for something they don't wish or have the need to discuss at that given point. People know their right from wrong they don't need me or anyone to point out to them "right, wrong" they need to feel strong enough to be able to tackle what is ahead of them in order to make the right decisions, and that will never happen with hypercriticism and denigration. I think with trust AND respect you can convince people to move mountains and you can optimise your results, it's basic sales really, people don't buy from people who want to one up them people buy from people who want to offer them a real improvement to what already exists for them. Most people don't respond well to criticsm no matter what you wanna call it "tough love" "help" "caring" it is what it is, unless of course they suffer from abuse issues and get some subconscious kick our of being abused and denigrated. I do notice that some people (generally) are very coddled and that staves off those lessons. Those internal lessons of actions to consequense. Those lessons of core change. Do you not agree? We need clear definitions of this because I bet we all have different takes on what the boundaries are. At what point to you as a friend/family member/so/person on the street...step in and check another human? Just asking? Sorry didn't understand that last comment Absolutely. It's one of the things that detracts from a lot of potentially good discussions on this board. It became clear after the first few posts that something was going on in another thread that was being taken onto here. Which makes it harder to present your views without people assuming that you too are referring to whatever's going on in the other thread and taking sides. Even if, at that stage, you haven't even seen the other thread. Yes because some people are incapable to discussing concepts, they need to carry grudges every where they go and they attack posters not concepts. Look, I have been known to stoop very low here, VERY low, and usually it happens when people attack ME, not concepts, I can handle a difference of opinion in concepts but I find some people can't, and take that personally. They take it really personally and get emotional when a poster won't back down from their stance on a concept and it becomes really emotional for them and everything breaks down beyond that. Earlier in this thread I was attacked and told I was being a hypocrite, I asked why that statement was made when I had made general statements about the concept we are discussing here and then it is turned around to say that I am looking to bait someone !?!?! WTF!?!? You call me a hypocrite, I welcome your explanation because if you are going to cry out such a claim then please back it up. Then I ask you to give concrete examples and then you turn it around to "ohhh no you don't, you are not going to "bait" me. What is this concept of baiting? There is no baiting if you can't be had. People don't BAIT me, people can say crap to IRK me but it's up to me how I handle my feelings no one else is responsible for that. It's like those kids that throw a rock at the group of kids and when one of them reacts becuase they were hit by the rock the agressor kid hides his hand and pretends they never did anything. Don't start shiiiit and then call mommny. Do women posters have a heightened rivalry with other women posters but not with male posters? If so, why? I don't want to extrapolate too much, but gender, at first blush, appears to play a role in the conflicts. Queen Bee syndrome? Sexual competition? yes it is called JEALOUSY. Women get intimidated easily by other women and especially by a woman that can hold their own that OTHER people respond posititevely to. These types of women have presense and nothing intimidates some women more. I see that happens to you here Taramere, you are intelligent, insightful very well versed and balanced and some women are extremely intimidated by that, they feel inferior to you. Queen Bee syndrome too for sure, and sexual competition moreso, I have experienced all in the real world I tend to ruffle feathers with my overall persona and appearance, I am self confident extremely personable and generally liked by many and that causes discomfort in women that really don't stand out and who have to compete for that attention that much harder. I have dealt with it all my life really. It's happend to me in the work place a few times but I stop for no one and eventually they back down because it gets them nowhere to try to battle with me or to play petty games I have 0 tollerance for that and they see they won't get far so either they give up or avoid me. In the outside world appearance has a lot to do with it too the more attractive a woman is the more jealousy she inspires. Attractive and intelligent women are used to getting their way so more attractive women tend to be more dominant/assertive, they don't follow as much.
shadowplay Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Or maybe some people are easier to bully than others? What I find really manipulative is viciousness under the guise of altruistic advice.
trubella Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 ive experienced criticism/bashing a couple of times since i joined here, even recently. and it was always coming from ppl who dont exactly have perfect love lives. its usually other women here who give you grief -men tend to be alot more laidback with their advice.
Lishy Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 What I find really manipulative is viciousness under the guise of altruistic advice. No one on here is perfect, no one has the 'perfect' relationship (however much some like to pretend to!) and no one is god! It is one thing saying things to people out of frustration but a complete other thing when a clique gang up and bully one person, epecially when it is a person whome they know is meek. I may have been guilty of being tough but never have I joined a crew to bully a poster who is weak. That is just deplorable, no matter how it is dressed up!
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