Son's Girlfriend and He Are Destroying Our Family

[suzyq83]

Could go on forever but will try not to. Gf is horrible, most bold mouthy girl I have ever met. My son told me he did not want to go out with her, she started sending him naked pics by cell. Then started giving him underwear. Then clothing. I watched him get roped right in and tried to warn him. It only made him rebel.

 

The girl told me in one of my first exchanges w/her "we may never see eye to eye but I expect us to be civil." I was like amazed. I had told her if she was helping him to drink alcohol, probably wasn't doing him any favors. High risk of alcoholism genetically. Now, since her, it has become part of his lifestyle I watch as he has completely changed his personality. Is it alcohol, or the gf or both? Whatever it is, isn't good. I cannot believe my son would be so vulnerable, any way.

 

He is a good catch, financially. I do not trust this girl at all. She has told me she has purposely not included me. (in their circle.) Her parents are like their best buddies. I have tried my damndest to embrace this girl. She tells me "He is MINE." and she tells me "I know so much more than you will ever know about your son." I think she is possessive and dangerous mentally, really. She is very smart, but very devious. Has brainwashed my son's whole belief system -- has taught him he has "free will"< acts as tho he never had "choices" before, and also says he can "treat (me) any way he wants, it is his choice."

 

Son's and my relationship has deteriorated badly. Scarily. I am a single mom, with 2 boys. I do not understand why this girl has such a thing about my son's mother. She treats me as tho I am a 21 yr old peer, and not as a mother, whoever was his mother would have been treated the same way, by this woman. No desire to really fit into our family -- she wants to BE my son's family, and that is that. My son's behavior has dramatically been altered in this process. His morals have slipped. Her parents think it is OK to lie, that kids will go thru that --- and so my son now lies a lot. Her parents beileve any one can do what they want -- my son' now lets himself go, across a line, in doing what he wants. The girl has since day one, made everything SEEM like everything has been my son's choice. I guess ultimately it is his choice, but always her ideas. She is an expert at how to f--- me over in anything I want. She is very very cunning. I have watched her isolate him away, and she contanctly controls him 24/7 via keeping him in her "trance" thru texting. She goes crazy on him if he doesn't text right back. Consumes all of his time. Makes him be "true to her" to the expense of anything else dear in his life. She has no interest in his past. she moved him out behind my back -- my son was never dishonest, it broke huge trust, for him and me. Her parents helped move him out, not knowing it was behind my back. I was devastated. All this to drink alcohol and be with his gf, or her need for him to-- can't say anymore which came first, a chicken or an egg they are so enmeshed psychologically. Started realizing very poisoinous views of me coming out of him, asked him to come to counseling with me to figure out why this all has happened. The very poisonous views, words, thoughts are his gf's, they became internalized in him, as well.

 

Her parents tell me HE is in control in their relationship and that she always controlled every bf and they think it is good for her. The idea of my son being in control has made him act like a tyrant and dominator, with me. not good. But she still is in control of him, by letting him think he is in control of her, if you get what I mean. I cannot comprehend the need in my son any way, for control. He never had it before. These ppl relate to him as "I know no one can tell you what to do" and so now he has become someone "no one can tell what to do" -- It has been simply horrible. This is not my son, that I raised. He was never a kid like that. He was always happy and sunny. And well -liked. I don't even recognize him these days, with all of this happening. I am very scared for him. I know he has to learn from his own mistakes but this is a huge one. I do not feel at all that he had the chance to develop his own life upon moving out, she just ensnared him. I am not jealous, and not the type of mom who ever has had ANY problems ever with any of my son's gf's before this. I cannot talk with the girl becuz all she does is mouth off at me, so I finally went to her parents, who still have some influence. Her parents mean well, they just don't realize how their daughter really is. She is a terrible girl, kind of criminal really -- in her manipulations. She has removed my son away from the CORE of his true self. I know young ppl tend to be like who they are with somewhat but this has been ungoldy. Her words come out of his mouth, the way he believes her beliefs, etc. She is always looking down on others, as well, sniping ppl's words, it is her true past time. But there is good in her too -- she just lies all the time and also to her self, to the point where I don't even think she realizes it. I know her parents didn't realize how much she pulls, until I started showing them, but still all it did was cause my son and her to go isolate even more from me -- I was trying to head on directly get real about all that goes on. This girl, has taken advantage of the fact that I am a single mother with no husband around -- to her I am not as worthy of respect without a man in my home -- I think she is pathetically unevolved in that regard -- but to her couples are the only thing in life that counts, any one who isn't in one does not matter. Her parents also view someone who didn't remarry as really not having taken care of the kids somehow as well as I could have. And I am a really GOOD mother and I always held down a 2 parent income, esp when child support was being held up by my ex -- I truly gave my kids everything that I had. This girl came along and caused my son to doubt everything about my parenting, and it has been just awful. My son earns 60K a year, and he is in early 20's. I have known since the beginning on an instinctual level that this girl is harm. And I have known that IF he makes it out of this alive, mentally, emotionally and physically, it will be a long time before he even wants a healthy relationship again after this relationship he is in. Seriously, this girl is like a sociopath. And I am scared. All I can do right now is NOTHING. This is the first I have not tried to call him at all. She accuses me of "wanting control" if I do call him, and he has begun to think that way -- and all I get is rejected too many times as a person let alone as a parent, to be able to keep doing it. Long story short -- trying to be in touch with him somehow becomes part of the problem. It doesn't work. He cannot sustain it for long without a nightmare happening. I do not have a problem with a woman becoming number one in his life, I just wish it were a HEALTHY number one, for him.

 

I know I cannot have any opinion.

 

I have told him how I feel, and it only increased the go for her stuff.

 

Has been a late rebellion. The therapist said. He doesn't stay more than 3X in therapy - we tried 2, a woman and a man.

 

My son has become like in to power since this girl, she is all about power.

 

My son, if I go to see him, won't let me into his apt unless other family members are with me. Otherwise he won't let me in. In the times he has let me in, he will suddenly order me "I want you to leave" and then starts shoving me. I cannot deal with it. It is so dead wrong, but obviously, all the control stuff has rubbed off on him from her. I am having, quite simply, a hell of a time with this.

 

I cry, all the time lately. At the thought of my happy family, becoming a broken apart failure. We always had so muchfun together, my boys and I. We ARE a family, and I deserve to still have my family. This girl's family doesn't suffer whatsoever, ours gets demolished and shortchanged and allowed to die from shrewdly planned out lack of time. All year, when my son visited me for like a dinner, we had to put up with her texting him, like 3X per minute sometimes. She would call me by my first name to him all the time, devaluing me as a mother to him in that way. When we went on an expensive vacation, which took me months to earn for, we had to put up with her contant texting and calling all the time altho we were mi away. On his b-day, his brother drove 4 hours to celebrate with him, and we took him to dinner and home to open gifts, and she tried to drag him off to go drink with friends, which really upset our usual way of celebrating his bday. We would have had one hour with him max, if I hadn't put my feelings forth. Of course, I am the hated one.

 

I just don't know what to do any more. I have bent over backwards to accommodate this relationship, and they just keep getting sicker. Toward me. I cannot deal with it, anymore. It continues to scar my son's and my relationship for me to try to call him or see him, because she needs him to be the way she needs him to be. And of course, she always skates away scott free from any responsibility in her part of it.

 

It has been unreal, really. the most toxic situation I have ever seen. And I have NO clue, any longer what to do. I guess I can't do anything. She feeds off of me gleefully any way. So what choices do I have? I don't think I have any any more, except to take care of myself, and until my son gains respect for me again, it makes no sense. But my heart honestly, is breaking over this. And has been for a year. Nothing gets better, it gets worse. My son is so "dead" to me now that if I ask "is family still important to you?" He says yes, and SOUNDS like he means it, but then his actions speak otherwise. It is a terrible mess.

 

Any advice would be most appreciated. It is making me old way before my time.

 

This is only his second serious relationship. The girl needs it to be "different " from his last relationship. the girl and her mother tell my son he is "different" from me and alsop from his brother, because my older son and I have blonde hair and my younger son has brown hair. They tell him he is just like the boys' father, they met him ONCE for 4 hours. Behavior has nothing to do with genetics. But these days, if they tell my son he is green, then he would turn green for them. Like a big morph. The girl tells my son I "treat him differently from (his brother" -- I always treated my kids equally and the same -- this year, with my son's acting out, it has begged being treated differently. I have done my very best not to. The girl was saying this to him before she even met me. It is not founded in any truth.

 

Why do kids get so impressioned, by someone they are in bed with?

 

It is an identity shift into "coupledom" instead of my son remaining himself AND being in a couple.

 

Could write forever, but will stop. Thank you.

[xjohnsgirlx]

To be honest i didnt read the whole story.. i didnt need to. But i can so understand how ur feeling and how upset you must be. I am writing because i can relate to your son. I dont know if im going to help or not but i really do feel for you. I was in a relationship where my x was very controlling i was never too close with my parents but he practically ripped me away from them. It was kinda like 'if you love me you dont need them' and i fell into his trap i moved out of home and my attitude changed so much. I even deserted all my friends. Something i always said i would never do. Finally it came to stage where i clicked. He had made me become someone who i didnt like. I visited home once when we had a bit of a fight and i snapped at my mum. She ended up crying and that broke my heart. It hit me how much i was hurting the people who cared about me the most. I left the guy cause although he offered me a life and world of my own its not what i wanted. I wanted my parents who had raised me my friends who were always there for me .. and he was trying to take that away from me. In my eyes this girl is a complete b****. I feel so sorry for you to have to go threw this. All i can offer to say is that only time will tell. And as for her putting your son onto drinking,, thats just horrible his not in his right state of mind... i dont know what i can really say to help but i just really hope he realises like i did before its too late

 

my best of wishes go to you xxxx

[suzyq83]

It hit me how much i was hurting the people who cared about me the most. I left the guy cause although he offered me a life and world of my own its not what i wanted. I wanted my parents who had raised me my friends who were always there for me .. and he was trying to take that away from me. In my eyes this girl is a complete b****. I feel so sorry for you to have to go threw this. All i can offer to say is that only time will tell. And as for her putting your son onto drinking,, thats just horrible his not in his right state of mind... i dont know what i can really say to help but i just really hope he realises like i did before its too late

 

my best of wishes go to you xxxx

 

Thank you so much xjohnsgirlx -- It is helpful to hear from another end of the situation, my son has not and will not talk about it with me, more than 2 minutes -- in all this year, I have had the chance to talk with him ever about it and even just about what we are going to do about OUR relationship and our family -- in one full year I have had no more chance than 8 hours max of a chance and those only in like 10 minute blurbs. Absolutely nothing gets accomplished. He also has left all old friends behind. He also left his beloved older cat behind who he loved more than anything in the world -- she talked him into getting a "replacement" cat" (kttien) when she moved him. She doesn't live with him, she has been working on it, since she moved him. If I buy him a winter coat, she buys him one, etc. She bought him a whole wardrobe, not one thing in it, is from "before" -- ie when he lived here. It has been surreal.

 

She has teied to shame me for over a year for his having lived at home when she met him. He was just getting his feet wet in real career. Had tried college and quit, but was taking PT courses at a college and working in a very real adult job and had begunt o save some money and was paying his bills. . Now, since her graduation from college, SHE lives at home with her parents and no one tries to make her feel bad for living there or accusing her parents of not "letting her grow." It is just all insane. And if you love someone, you DON'T help them feed themselves something that could potentially kill them. She told him "see you can drink, it is just your mother who says you can't." I am telling you, honestly my son can't handle alcohol. Both therapists have TOLD him he is at very high risk for alcoholism. So in this process he got a dui. and seemed to learn. But then I ran into him one night, and he was more drunk than I had ever seen him, a couple of weeks ago. Since then he has been running/avoiding me like the plague. And the girl was with him. She honestly IS a real b***. And once she knows what I don't want, she goes and does.

She makes alcohol about being grown up. I just never had it around my kids and they developed really healthy friends and interests. now my kid doesn't even play basketball or work out any more. Just have watched all of what always had been his life go right out the window.

When I took our family on vacation, she and he then went on vacation to the same exact place. It is like she has to "re-frame" everything for him, and make my efforts null and void or something, lol! But it is a sick need to compete with me, and I can't deal with it any more.

 

I am glad you found your way back to your fmaily and friends and world. I pray that my son does as well.Your reply gives me hope. In the meantime, I have to fully accept that he is not who he ever used to be, and accept things as they are right now.

[xjohnsgirlx]

Omggggg this is sounding so much of what i was going through. AT the time of it all i was listening to my x like he was right .. and everyone else was wrong, he just had a way of saying things that like messed with my head. I do regret alot of things i did with him. Avoiding my family, lossing contact with the most beautiful friends i could have asked for. We were both living at his house and he always always said bad stuff about my mum about how she never treated me right and everything but he never really took it to get to know her. She is an amazing mother ...she gets grumpy and the ****s at times but who doesnt. He always said my parents hated him at the start but they actly really liked him he was decent and sweet and kind but he changed so much. He did the trying to re act things aswell. He always said i didnt need friends, but he had sooo many friends and always saw them... but not once did i meet them? And i was never allowed to go anywhere with out him .. I really do hope your son comes to sense... i did .. and im so angry that i let myself become somebody i wasnt. One day he is going to clik and i hope it isnt before it is too late .. i do know that if i left it anylonger i prob wouldnt have had anything to come back to =( I wish you all my luck i really feel for you

[Ronni_W]

My brother also got involved with a person like you are describing. She had similar perceptions of [our] mom and of me. The fact is that, ultimately, it was my brother who allowed things to happen; allowed his relationships with us and other family members to deteriorate; supported her in her distorted views and dysfunctional ways of coping with her sad life.

 

Similarly, it is your son also doing that. Your son IS choosing his own attitudes, behaviours and drinking habits. He is old enough and intelligent enough to be holding down a well-paying job that, one assumes, carries responsibility and needs self-discipline. He has ability to think for himself.

 

It took me a long time to realize that every time I blamed my brother's actions on this woman, it was actually an insult to his intellect and ability to make decisions. How he sees others and acts towards them is his responsibility. He is not a child. He is not a moron. He got away with mistreating us because we wrongly blamed somebody else for his garbage. All that did, really, was turn him into her victim. That isn't accurate. If he was a victim, it was of his own thoughts and decisions.

 

Sad but true is that grown-up children do hurtful things to themselves and those who love them. It doesn't serve to think that's because they have been 'brainwashed'. They're just making some choices that hurt.

[suzyq83]

. always said bad stuff about my mum about how she never treated me right and everything but he never really took it to get to know her. He did the trying to re act things aswell. And i was never allowed to go anywhere with out him .. I really do hope your son comes to sense... i did .. and im so angry that i let myself become somebody i wasnt. One day he is going to clik and i hope it isnt before it is too late .. i do know that if i left it anylonger i prob wouldnt have had anything to come back to =( I wish you all my luck i really feel for you

 

Wow, it is exactly how it is -- the thoughts his gf has about me are awful and she pumps it into him til he ingests it and believes it as well and that is that way it is now. And she has never gotten to know me, just believes in this pathetic poor dim view of me and insists on it. How are you supposed to enjoy a person like that? I have tried to get to know her, but it never lasts for long. She also has him very messed up about what it is to be adult -- her version of adult is causing all these changes. She pretends to give him freedom by never being upset no matter what time he would show up to see her or IF he went to see her --and reeled him in that way, it appealed to him a great deal to have a gf who was all easy about when....but it is .like a fox playing with a chicken and I have been watching it all along. She now has to be with him 24/7, has been pressuring him to let her live with him, so far he hasn't but I don't believe he will be able to keep saying no. In a way now I hope they do live together so that they can get sick of eachother, lol! But, it isn't funny, I have to keep making some humor or I will just stay miserable, forgive me.

 

It is really great to hear your end of it, for me, thank you so much!! I truly appreciate it. How long were you in your relationship with him? What finally broke it up? How did you start to realize?

 

[nleeh]

I read your whole story and it is obvious that this situation definately is paining you and I'm sure it is heartwarming to read there are others who have gone through the same kind of thing and came to realize their relationship was destructive and left it and that may happen with your son as well or it may not, which I'm sure may cause a lot of trouble in the future in your family but if you son continues to stay in this relationship there isn't any more you can do to break them up aside of what you have already said to him and most likely the more you try to break them up, the more you will push him farther away from you.

 

This may not be what you want to hear but I suggest backing off and letting your grown son find his own way through this and in the mean time concentrate on anything that is good or reasonably good about her and their relationship and concentrate on that and let her and your son know by your words and actions. No one is 100% bad and sometimes focusing on what is working, what good each of them possess, things in their relationship that are working, can turn people around and you may find that a change in your attitude may bring her closer to you and your son as well.

 

This may sound like white washing the whole thing or that I'm suggesting you ignor her bad qualities or your son's not so good choices but your choice is to distance them more or draw them closer and for your sake I hope you choose the the path of least resistance.

 

nleeh

[suzyq83]

Thank you Nleeh,

It is true that it distances him to criticize anything. So, I have tried and honestly embraced the girl. Went to her graduation, gave her a gift of money for graduation, invited her to my bday dinner, ask my son how she is when I speak to him etc. While everything "seems" fine, at those times, I quickly find she still badmouths me any way, even to my face. Nonethless, I remain nice and adult and overlook her slips, but still it is very hard, and still results in my son ramping up the distancing again. Part of it is her need, part of it is his. Together as a couple they are very difficult. Yet, I will keep in mind that I should focus on her/their positive, you are right, and thank you for the reminder. And you are right, my grown son needs to make his own decisions. I haven't tried to break them up, I realized awhile ago that it is his relationship and it really is his, not mine. I just wish I could wave a magic wand and have it be much nicer. It really has been so damaging. But you are right, it has to be that positive is appreciated. And you are right that no one is all bad -- I guess I happen to belive that if someone causes this much ruckus and needs to lie all the time that I believe they are kind of sick. Or young. Or both. Alot of it on her part is downright intentional. Hard to overlook and consider OK.

[ntucci12]

I feel for you! I really do...This has got to be such an ongoing pain! But as you know there isn't a whole lot that can be done. The good news is that your son sounds smart enough to eventually come to his senses, and when he does he will be able to see right through all of her nonsense... Good luck!

[suzyq83]

Hi ntucci12-

 

I hope so. I ran into him today and he is cold as ice, sigh. We don't know, my older son and I, what to do. My older son is visiting next couple days. This is the first time I didn't go out of my way to try to make a get together happen with the three of us all together. Since my youngest son is obviously hell bent on being aloof, not speaking to me, not answering ph, not texting, I stopped trying to reach him 14 days ago. Scary tho. It does not seem worth all of the pleading with him to come be with us. All this time I have brought family to him, I think he needs to start wanting family and start trying to want to be with family. God this is all so hard. And the gf thrives on any "winning" of him anyway, so let 'em rip, I guess. I give up. I just don't know what to do. I am so angry anyway, that his gf has said I am not the one included in his life because of how I am. Her words to me. Yet I am afraid he will be hurt and also cop even more resentments if I don't keep family time warm and open to him, but he just blew off a trip to my Dad's, who is near 80 on purpose with the girlfriend who I was going to bring to meet family...... and I know she just helped manipulate the not going so that she can go meet family without me. I am angry with my kid for wanting me excluded from his life and for being so dumb as to believe this is any way to be. Blows my mind. it is so hard to know what is right. But my older son and I both realize that there's really nothing we can do any more. My younger son is busy making his "choices" that his gf taught him to make -- and I guess we have to let him get done making his choices. Don't know if it will ever be all right again. I really do not know. How in hell does a family that was always happy just get blown to bits suddenly in one year, just because of a girl and a lot of confusion about what it means to be "adult?" He never had confusion about how to be an adult before he met her, and I have never seen anyone in such a rush to feel grown up as this girl. He was actually a LOT more mature 2 years ago, this has been like watching a landslide of someone going totally backwards. I feel like such a failure this year as a mother, and yet I know that he and his gf have just made it all about me and that I was a good mom, a really good mom. It's just so awful.

[HabitualDelirium]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Have you mentioned to your son how much he is hurting you by doing this?

 

I have never been a mother, and am still fairly young myself, probably more young than your son, but I have a boyfriend that says bad things about my mother all the time. The truth is, my mother and I did have a lot of strain in our relationship that she never realized because I kept it all to myself growing up in fear of standing up to her.

 

Maybe there were things that his girlfriend is saying is true. I think what you need to do and sit your son down and talk about YOUR relationship. Tell him you'll sit quietly and listen to what he feels are the issue between you and him. What does he feel you're doing wrong or have done wrong. And maybe try to fix those issues at hand. Try to keep the girlfriend out of it. And if that's not possible, then it'll help him realize how much the relationship is controlling his life.

 

In a sense, although you are his mother and he your son, you need to try to let go for the time being. I know it's hard. But it seems the more a parent tries to cling on, the more the child will try to break away. Give him some space to make his mistakes, but be there once he realizes those mistakes. He's the one making the choices. You should try being upset at him for once and do yourself a favor and just let him out of your life for a bit. Focus on your other son. Focus on other things. Your younger son will come back when he's ready.

[suzyq83]

 

It took me a long time to realize that every time I blamed my brother's actions on this woman, it was actually an insult to his intellect and ability to make decisions. How he sees others and acts towards them is his responsibility. He is not a child. He is not a moron. He got away with mistreating us because we wrongly blamed somebody else for his garbage. All that did, really, was turn him into her victim. That isn't accurate. If he was a victim, it was of his own thoughts and decisions.

 

Thank you Ronni W and all of you for helping with your thoughts, I truly appreciate all of your help. It is true, Ronni, that he is a victim of his own thoughts and decisions. It is easier to blame the girl because he is my son, but I do know they have been his very painful choices. It you could see it in action you would realize that there is an aspect of brainwashing, tho,too. My older son said it is like my younger son and his gf have an idiot box between their ears, where they scramble anything I say and make it into something else. Happens all the time.

 

Did your brother snap out of it? Did he repair family relationships? It is all so very scary and not the way our family ever was, at all.

[suzyq83]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Have you mentioned to your son how much he is hurting you by doing this?

 

In a sense, although you are his mother and he your son, you need to try to let go for the time being. I know it's hard. But it seems the more a parent tries to cling on, the more the child will try to break away. Give him some space to make his mistakes, but be there once he realizes those mistakes. He's the one making the choices. You should try being upset at him for once and do yourself a favor and just let him out of your life for a bit. Focus on your other son. Focus on other things. Your younger son will come back when he's ready.

Hi Habitual - my younger son has become completely incapable of owning any responbsibility or even awareness that he has hurt any one. Part of that is from his gf teaching him he is not resp. for anyone else's feelings and that there's no right or wrong, and so he clings to those beliefs with a fury and cannot ever put himself in another's shoes any longer as he was always able to. He was always a sweet, compassionate kid with a heart of gold. So trying to say how much anything hurts me, he does not care, these days. He thinks nothing should hurt me. And that he is fine the way he is. There seems also to be a really disturbing part of him these days that almost enjoys hurting me. I wanted to bring him to a therapist who helps guys who turn against their mothers over girlfriends. I still think it would not hurt, but he won't go to one now. He is getting very mixed messages from the girl about what is manly and what is adult. You are right that the more a parent tries to cling, the more the child breaks away. I have done nothing for the past couple of weeks at all. Haven't tried to call him or text him, etc. It is a horrible feeling, tho. I just wanted to keep our natural relationship. While he grew and changed into adult hood. I never ever expected this and it has been extreme, and the girl does feed so much of it. She talks to me like I am 12 and to be abhorred. Has since the beginning. They both feed off of me. So I am not contacting him.

[xjohnsgirlx]

We only went out for about 6 months but being in the relationship felt so much longer especially having to see him every day and only spending time with him. And it was very hard to get away because we lived to gether practically from the start. I regret ever meeting him now. At about 4 months i really wanted to leave so bad but he always like read me and was like you want to leave, you promised you wouldnt there somebody better out there im not good enuf he said so much that it like messed with my head and id stay which was a bad idea. I think it was all his talk about getting our own place instead of living at his house and me not even being able to see my friends or family it takes a toll after a while. He would call me awful names sl** wh**e etc etc and it clicked that hey what the hell are you doing i dont deserve this. Hed put me in like a mind spell and i never realised how bad he truely was treating me. Towards the end he wasnt making me smile, i was crying sad tears. It wasnt a life i could do better so i went home and did a NC. it took about 2 weeks for him to get the picture that i wasnt going to change my mind. Although sometimes i wanted to because it was like he was my life now because id spent so many days with just him. It took along time to re-adjust back to normal... although your son may not show to you his not happy in the rel.. deep down inside himself he might be realising it. (sorry about the late reply) i wish you best of luck xx ~anda~

[suzyq83]

Thank you xjohnsgirlx -- God, I know I will write too much again -- I don't think my son can really be happy if he is drinking like he has been. I don't think he ever started his own life upon his moving into his first apt since it was all balled in with his gf, who was all about "our life" when my son was just trying to have his life plus a gf. So I am hoping eventually that will tug at him enough to realize his life went in a left direction instead of straight ahead, all balled in with the gf and her family. He and his gf when they fight, fight like hell. She gets in his face and won't stop til she gets what she wants. I saw that the first time I met her, she threatened to walk out on him, so these things happen and I am hoping he will grow tired of it. She guilts him with "sorry I'm such a bad gf." Keeps him in her spell thru constant texting -- flips out on him when he doesn't text back immed. Sometimes I think that half of his reactions with me, are cuz he is getting inundated by her -- for ex awhile ago he wouldn't answer ph when she called him, which was a first -- and he has done that to me all past year at times -- I think he simply gets inundated with constant contact from her, so that when I try to reach him it gets taken out on me alot. But deep down, I think he gets pressured by her alot to stay under her spell. So, guess all one can do is let him experience being completely only in touch with her and maybe someday he will realize other ppl aren't around any more. I have seen friends drop out of his life too, because they don't like his gf, they say they can't stand the way she acts and they say my son can't stay himself while with her. His best friend has been hoping that my son and his gf will break up this summer with her around all of the time. I've seen him drop all prior interests he has had for years, as well.

 

Your ex sounds very controlling, as my son's gf is. I honestly don't know what anyone can do with power and control issues. They strangle relationships, I think and ppl seem unable to realize that they have control issues. Certainly not healthy, but power and control issues are at the base of the makings of an abuser, too, which really worries me for my kids' sake because since he has been with this girl who is all abou power and control (and thinks she is very clever for being a gamer that way) and about taking stands and about making my son take stands for her, I know these are all wrong learnings, for him, esp to be bolstered and helped to be angry at his mother. It is all very very screwed up that his gf requires this of him -- I have talked with her parents about it, it helps to calm some of it, but it also causes my son and she to alienate from me if I try to talk with her parents - because she hides from her parents how she really has been acting with me altho the mother has seen some of it firsthand, which has been good, and the girl does not want them to know. She would rather pretend she is a victim and afraid of me, to them. Her parents and I have talked about this. My honesty is taken by her to be "challenging her" -- you cannot talk with this girl. She makes sure of it. Yet abuse can only happen in secrecy, and it is a requirement for abuse to take place, and I have HAD to bring some of it out in the open, the chronic mistreatment of me -- just in order to BREATHE again, for I have been my son's and his gf's kicking post for almost 2 yrs now and it has been destroying my happiness completely. I hope someday that my son can explain to me what his need was, to do all of that, honestly. For he is responsible for his own choices in all of this. Has been a huge betrayal.

 

I know what you mean tho, you look back on a relationship and wonder who the person even was, in a way. Most important thing is you will know what to look for in your future relationships and won't have relationships like the one with your ex again. I read somewhere that very controlling ppl are the result of a very high intellect and low self esteem and there's just nothing anyone can do to fix it. That it is a bottomless pit that can never be filled. I fear this for my kids' sake -- I can well imagine a life of trying to fill her low self esteem -- and her needs for material as well. Makes me shudder. She requires $300 pocketbooks. He is going to have to figure out that being related to for money is a sign of his own low self esteem. I don't know WHY he has chosen to be related to/apprecated for/valued for money, either. His low self esteem and this whole crisis, seems to have come from arriving into adulthood/manhood with some real uncertainty, because my kids' Dad wasn't around much in late teen years on-- lives far away. I even asked my ex to come this year to help with all of this, for my youngest son's sake and my ex did come and has maintained contact since then. Seems a lot of confusion about how to be a man, what is a man, what is powerful, what is strong -- girl has taught him to be horrible to be "strong". etc.

 

But to control someone, controlling ppl isolate their victim away from support systems and reality checks, such as friends and family. Altho I have given my son articles on this, he still has gone straight into a vacuum of isolation with this girl.

 

My son's gf's parents told me that she has always controlled every bf she has ever been with, and that this is the first bf she cannot control, that my son is in control of the relationship and that they think it is good for her. And I scratched my head, and told them that what is healthy is a SHARED balance of power in a relationship, not where one is in control and not the other. But I also disagree that my son is in control of the relationship. He is led to believe he is, and reinforced as tho he is, and it SEEMS he is at times, but she really is, in making believe that he is in full power of the relationship in the first place and also, she is a lot smarter and much more cunning than he is, so no, I don't feel my son is even in charge of his personality any more, very often. It is like invasion of the body snatchers, something else has inhabited him. Her parents believe that ppl are supposed to "be like who they are with" -- and I say, but they are not supposed to become CLONES. Her parents mean well, and believe they have raised helathy kids, so what can you say? They are good ppl but some of the philosophy comes from them at same time. At any rate, I honestly have never met anyone who thought control of any kind in relationships was a good thing, so I cannot make sense of the philosophies at work at all in my kids' situation. Nor can I comprehend very well, why some ppl are about control any way-- I guess it is what they learned somewhere in relationships.

[xjohnsgirlx]

The more you write back the more and more i can relate to this. Its just so upsetting to know that somebody is going through what i went through and for such a longer period of time! My x relyed on me for money and at first i felt as though it was a good thing i could provide for him and help him out when he needed. But after a while it became very clear to me that it was more like he was using me for my money. I leant him money for a big screen tv, i paid for his phone credit, his car payments, food, movies, and when your seeing this person every single day it costs alot... one day i broke down crying because i didnt have any money in my bank :| we had spent it all. And he didnt comfort me he told me to stop being stupid its only money and next weeks pay will be in soon???? how can somebody even think like that. I had always told myself i never wanted to live off each weeks pay, and before my x thats exactly what i was doing. And i did have a fair bit saved up. But suddenly it was gone, like i prided myself in saving money and next thing its gone and the person i loved didnt give a s***. Really hurt alot inside. We had wasted so much money and i say we because i never said no.. he always asked if i could buy this computer game or why dont we have this take out food. Its very upsetting still now looking back on what had happened to me and all my morals that i had just let go of. Never ever again. I do know what kind of person to look for now, but to be honest im not sure if i want another bf for a while. I always wanted to have a big family and get married you no the fairy tale dream, but after everything i want to focus on me make myself happy and i know i can do that without someone else. I can also relate to the constant text msgs.. my x would always do that at work all the time. And if i didnt reply he would get very very angry and do the mind games. I think your son is starting to see how much she is controlling him, has he ever spoken to you and said that shes controlling him? or is it just how obvious it is that she is. If he admits it trust me they wont be together much longer. I feel sad for his friends that he has lost. I recently got in contact with my best friend. She hated my x and it came to the point where she said it him or me .. and id always said id never put someone infront of her and i did and i so regret it now but i am so happy that she has let me mend what i broke. She is beautiful and im never doing that again. I really hope your son hasnt left it too late to repair his friendships... but i do know that there is one heart waiting for him that will wait forever... yours... you are so dedicated to him... i can feel that you want him back so bad! i really like how you got your x to come stay and help out... i also wouldnt blame what has happened on him not having a male figure through his teenage years. I knwo alot of people in one parent family and they are so mature and so decent. Your son is decent! i can tell. Its just this girl. and how she is fake around her parents! my x did that too.. always always just not being himself around them... it was like he was a different person. But then one night when we got in an arguement he got sooo angry and was yelling at me and he even punched the walls... they saw his real side and his mum came to me... (he kicked me out of their house) and was like its for the best get away now when you can! i couldnt believe what i heard. She knew who he really was and how horrible he was to me... i really doubt this relationship will last much longer =) just hang in there... all my wishes xoxoxoxo (sorry if it was a bit long hehe)

[suzyq83]

Thank you for writing back, it helps alot to hear from you, and from your persepctive, for me. My son has at times expressed discomfort and annoyance, at her constantly texting him - it seemed on Easter Sunday he was kind of in hell about it -- he said "it's part of the relationship" -- but didn't look happy. I know those are her words/reasoning for constantly texting him, not his own, it has been what she has told him the texting is. I know at one point in March he had told his good friend that he was sick of her flipping out on him if he didn't text back immediately and was going to tell her to stop her BS, but I haven't asked since then. He has said in the past he has never had a relationship that required so much time. As for saying if she controls him, not yet, has he ever said that to my knowledge.

 

Re: money - altho it is nice that her parents think he is a tremendous success, I am also wary of their "notice" of his earnings, or that they even think of it. They hold him up for it in their eyes and shine onto him that he is a tremendous success, and that is flattering to him, of course and while I appreciate that they feel that way, sincerely, I am afraid for him that he is being, in part, valued for, his earning power. Also concerned that one parent said "I think they have plenty of money" -- because in first place, my son and his girl are not living together, secondly, she only works PT and they are mixing up my son's money with hers in thinking any way it seems to some degree -- and thirdly, offered that their daughter could take over making payments for him (with his money) for a bill he was not paying attention to. All of that, attention to my son's earning power and money life, just really causes me to be very wary. I said no, he should pay his own bills. I suppose guys encounter that, attention to their earning power if someone is considering marrying. So far my son was always assuring me they are just dating. But there are her words always popping up about "relationship lasting forever" coming out of him, as well. Or were, last he was talking to me. The mom has kind of a belief system that if someone is together they should always be able to work things out -- which I don't agree, I think some relationships are meant to last, some are not, some serve a purpose and the purpose gets outgrown -- I know in my own life, it is ludicrous to think that some romantic relationships should have lasted forever -- but the belief system has been a tough one, altho they mean well. There are hopes by them that my son will buy a house -- I get angry, because a house wouldn't just be for him, you know they would hope their daughter could live in it as well. I am not trying to be an idiot about my kids' relationship, if the girl didn't lie, and wasn't competitive about me, his mother, I would be happy for my kid if circumstances were not the way they are -- you know? But I can look at it too as hey, she just helped him get into alcohol, helped him stay mind altered for over a year, and has steadily moved right in on his life, period. And if it were a guy doing that with my son, I wouldn't be high on a guy friend either, for helping my kid get into alcohol, but I know, ultimately, it has been my son's decision to let alcohol use become part of his lifestyle adn to surround himself w ppl who do. Her folks think he is fine with alcohol, I know he is not. There is nothing I can do, except stay away for now, and just let things be, let him make his own decisions and pray for him.I guess I had always hoped my kids would find women who have equal earning power and who were truly independent in their own lives, and I guess I fear for my youngest one that he will be driven most of his life by a woman demanding more, more more, as some women do and as some men fall into. Blessings ~

[xjohnsgirlx]

Hey suzyq, This must be so hard on you! its just ridiculous that her parents have such high expectations of your son but it seems like they have none on their own daughter? Except find a high profile guy, who unfortunately is your son atm. It wouldnt be so bad if they had the same expectations of the daughter, but they dont? Like if things do last (which i hope and doubt they will) she is going to be so dependent on your son! and his going to find it so hard to cope. I myself, without bragging, consider myself a high profile person i have a very well paying FT job and if i was to get another Long term bf i would want him to have the same. Which is exceptable in my eyes. What i dont like is how girls have this attitude that they can live off a guy. I know in some cases okay, but if a girl is capable to work ft and have a decent job .. why doesnt she? I still find heaps of time to go shopping and see friends and go out, they dont need to work less hours just for this so why do they do it?.. Its like this girl has seen how vunerable your son is and is using that to her advantage which is soooooo horrible! My x from the first week we started seeing each other was saying it was forever, saying it all the time and i didnt feel as though it had to be said that much, it would lose its meaning and just become a word. But if i wasnt to say forever back to him he would get the sh** on so bad and get very angry. Have you heard from your son recently, i really feel so sorry for you, that you have to go through this is would be so hard. I will never forget the way i snapped at my mum and made her cry, its a reminder of what i dont and never will be again. My x controlled me and some people cant understand that, they dont see how you cant just walk away or say no. He played mind games just like this girl is doing! I dont know why they do it or what influences it but its horrible. I wish you luck that your son sees the light and gets out of this awful relationship. Gf/bf's can be replaced with better ones, but no body can replace a mother.

 

xx

[vintagecat]

Mom, I hear you and feel for you. It's very tempting to want to hold on to your children and help them not to make mistakes but I think you might be wrapped up too tightly in this and holding on is creating more problems than it solves. The tighter you want to hold the harder your son has to buck (with all the inherent disrespect) to get free.

 

What your son and his girlfriend owe you is respect and civility in your own home. Most parents get much more than this but for now this is the line in the sand that you must draw. On the other hand, you owe your adult son nothing more than civility and honesty. If you are supporting him in any way financially, paying for school or a car, or otherwise allowing him to be a child in other areas while he runs amok, stop it right now. He is an adult and he is making his own decisions and you need to let him do so with all the consequences that entails. If he "ruins his life" it's his to ruin I'm sorry to say. If he wakes up and smells the coffee in rehab then you might be able to offer more support but for now you will have to back out and become very much less available to this drama and no more adding bits to it.

 

Let him know that your door is always open and the light is always on but for now he has made his choices not to include you and you are respecting his boundaries. I also suggest counseling for you so that you can work through some of this emotion and find a healthy outlet for it.

 

Good luck to you Mom. Young adults can be idiots but if your son was raised well and your relationship at one time was healthy, very likely this too shall pass but in part how quickly it passes and how well you two will get on later depends upon your maturity and self control. Tough situation.

[suzyq83]

Thank you xjohnsgilrX and Vintage -- your advice and heart helps me a great deal.

I haven't tried to contact my son except for one email and didn't expect a response and didn't receive one -- but still just go through emotions like you wouldn't believe. He was raised well which is why all of this behavior is so shocking and hard to swallow for me --No, I don't financially support him in any way, so nothing to worry about there, but you are right that staying involved in any way just keeps harming it all somehow --- our relationship WAS really healthy and always happy, so am praying that it may be someday again. But in the meantime just crying alot still, I am. I am going ot go to Al Anon meetings and think I will line up some counseliing - this just was a terrible way to go through my youngest son leaving home over a year and a half ago, and I am mad that he didn't just stay in a 4 yr college because a part of me feels he would have been through all of this autonomy stuff by now, would have been thru it for 4 years by the time he was 22 instead of acting out now --and wouldn't have laid it all on me -- it seems had he stayed in college -- yet has done so well in career I can't really wish he had stayed in college -- BUT I will say that I WISH he had been living with anybody else under the sun when this girl came along and made him feel so ashamed for living at home at 22 -- and she is now living at home at 22 after college graduation -- so go figure. He is being very disrespectful and living in an isolated bubble. The girls is all about boundaries. So, just need to let it be I guess, altho that is so hard. I have told him I think he should just go see his father in AZ. I think if he did, it would sort out a lot for him -- about who he is -- this girl and her mother have confused him terribly about who he is and identity -- and have told him he different from his older brother and from me, and have told him he is like my boys' father, which isn't very accurate, I totally encourage he should go spend time with his Dad and find the similarities there are and feel loved by his Dad, which he has sorely needed since a teen and grab the bull by the horns and just go see him. I think he has had a blank spot in trying to envision who he should be as an male adult or as a man, due to their Dad not being around much in pre-teen and teen years -- I think it is all a cry for help, for his Dad, really. And a big identity crisis. Think the girl and her family kind of honed in on that vulnerability and messed him up, confused him, pretty badly, and alcohol isn't helping. I actually would be GLAD if he were in rehab, don't think it would do anything but help him! Whatever it is, the alcohol and all of the "shaping" of him and "redefining" him to himself that has gone on by the girl and her family's attention and identification of him, has really messed him up. He furthermore, has become like a "morph" of how they need him to be.

 

Ya, some really poor choices, or poor judgment since his relationship and alcohol, for sure. Hope he makes it, but you are right Vintage -- getting pulled into the drama ---- just keeps me upset and he gets to buck me more --- staying out of it helps him make decisions and invests faith that he will, because he needs to. He doesn't listen to me any more anyway, so there is not much point! It is true alot depends on my maturity and self control but can tell you that every emotional button has been pushed fiercely -- I can say it has not been easy at all, and what I tend to do is be critical insteal of like fine with all of it -- cuz it has been impossible to be fine with it all. I will say I AM relieved lately tho, to not have my seeing him being made fun of all the time by both he and his gf -- and I do not miss the intense emotional stress of trying to call him and his not answering ph or playing hang up ph games, etc. That at least, has given me some peace of mind, altho in the meantime, this is NOT what I ever expected, and not how I ever envisioned our family would be -- so am still struggling with that right now. And still wrestle with feelings of disappointment in him, right now.

Thank you both so much again ~

[suzyq83]

Hey suzyq, Its like this girl has seen how vunerable your son is and is using that to her advantage which is soooooo horrible! My x from the first week we started seeing each other was saying it was forever, saying it all the time and i didnt feel as though it had to be said that much, it would lose its meaning and just become a word. But if i wasnt to say forever back to him he would get the sh** on so bad and get very angry. xx

 

Yes, it is like that, that she has seen how vulnerable he is and is taking advantage of him. And she also, was all about forever and "our life" from the beginning as well. But.....he is allowing himself to be taken advantage of.

[xjohnsgirlx]

Maybe its not that he is allowing himself to be taken advantage of ... at first its possible it was agd relationship, he enjoyed having someone there with him spending time with saying that 'forever' ... it was my dream to have that one person who cared about you the most int he world.. and he grew fond of the feeling she gave him .. i duno how to explain i guess its more she changed and his still trying to get the girl from the start back? Soon enough his going to realise that she is a fake though! and youll have the healthy mum son relationship back =) hehe. Its sad that you have taken it as far as counselling and all that suzyq =( if only he could see how much its affecting you *big hugs* my best wishes just for you =)

[suzyq83]

Well it has been good for my head xjohnsgirlx to just really let go and not think about it much lately. I haven't called him at all, just letting things be. I saw him momentarily this week and asked him if he was estranged now. He said no. Then we went on to other topics which was pleasant. And I hugged him when I left and told him I love him, and he said he loved me. He is hung up this year, about even hugging his brother since this girl -- so.....I was glad for what exchange we had and still miss him alot, but am letting it still be until he gets it together more. Let him feel like without his mother - it is what he has been wanting all year, so he can have that from me. It is scary, it does change things, but it is also the only way to go right now since trying to stay in touch with him just led to tons of control issues and rejection of me. So, I was glad that we had a nice conversation about general stuff, the other day. Phew, what a year it has surely been. Just didn't want any damage to happen, big time. At least now that all truth is out he is looking me in the eye finally. I was glad to see that after so long being lied to all year. You know, it has just been a wicked headgame on his and his gf's part, mainly her part but my son certainly has dabbled in that as well. I think on my end I wasn't trying to come from mothering after a good while of it, and just was blown away at his lack of maturity to see me as a person, a human, not just his mom, you know?! Hopefully things will continue to change for the positive. Even if I don't see him much which has been really hard, I would rather, when I see him, that it be positive instead of how it was full of control crap all the time.

[Cherry Blossom 35]

First of all, I'm so sorry you are going through this. I don't have children, so I can't relate, but I can empathize.

 

I think the best thing to do right now, like other posters have said, is to let go and detach for a while. this will be extremely difficult, but I think you both need some space. I would consider writing him a letter. Don't use it as a chance to vent. That is what LS is for. Don't copy and paste what you've written here. Tell him you love him, always have and always will no matter what. Tell him that you want to give him some space and when he feels the need to come back, he is welcome with open arms. I have a feeling that this relationship is going to eventually destruct, and destruct in a bad way. He will take a long time to get over it, because this woman has really gotten under his skin.

 

Take care.

[suzyq83]

Thank you Cherry Blossom -- well, this week I called him yesterday at his job, first time in a month, because my alternator died and I have been without a car since Wed.(and because he never answers his cell ph if I call it any way). I managed to not bother him for any rides until needing one today, to go pay a bill that absolutely had to be paid today. He said he could give me a ride today yesterday, and told me to just get in touch with him this morning. This morning comes, and no response to my trying to get in touch with him. No response no response. When a couple hours passed and it was getting in the last hour before both he and I would have to go to work, I called his girlfriend, no answer, left a msg that I was trying to reach him cuz my car is dead until Monday. I called her mother later on, who has been nice to me, and left a vm there. Eventually, after 20 minutes past when he had to be to work, he texted saying he woke up late and had to get to work, which I believe was a lie. This is a typical pattern this year, these last minute blow offs, and pretense that he didn't know he had to work, which is never true, and pretenses that he over slept, he is never late for his job.

 

But this is the circus -- and how far I have to go to call him. And my bill never got paid, and had I known he would blow me off for a ride to go pay it, I would not have asked him. This kind of stuff is all that he has been about since he has been with his gf. So the pattern goes like this -- say one thing, do another, then Mom reacts and then he and gf can say Mom's negative. Same ol same ol game. Nothing at all has changed. And tonite I am very discouraged once again -- his brother and I keep hoping he will grow out of this treat Mom like crap phase but I am beginning to really have my doubts.