sally4sara Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 What are you talking about, of course that is excatly what I mean!?!?? An Imago applies to ALL connections of attraction. And you can have any opinion about why these connections are formed, and that's fine. My opinion on attraction is what I previously posted. I provided a psychological school of thought theory to back up why I see things as I do, you seem to only have an opinion and that's fine but understand not everyone is going to adhere to your opinion. Oh I realize that. Not everyone out there can fully weigh the consequences their actions might bring before doing them or care how much pain they could cause others in their impulsive aim for what they want for however long they want it. I realized the existence of selfish people long before today, but no amount of psychological definitions makes it something we should strive to label and excuse.
Author NoMore Posted July 9, 2008 Author Posted July 9, 2008 Thank you for all your comments. There are too many to answer individually but the following covers one or two. A quick update on my situation; I have realised that in this whole sorry state of affairs I am the lucky one. I can make a clean break without the heartache of divorce, raising children alone etc so, I have walked away. I feel desperately sorry for the W and all the children and I’m sorry for the part I have played. I don’t care about the MM and the other OW. A lot of the comments on here have really helped me, especially those who pointed out he was not my friend. I think my anger was really about thinking of him as a friend who’d deceived me. Once I realised he wasn’t my friend then the rest of it didn’t matter. None of us are perfect. We all want to be happy and usually make decisions in life based on our pursuit of happiness. Sometimes, especially when we are feeling vulnerable, we make bad decisions and we have to not only live with the consequences, but take responsibilty for them too. What is important is what we learn. 2 years ago I would never have thought I was capable of an A but times and events change us and looking back, I think my reasoning at the start of all this was fogged by events in my life at the time. I don’t offer this as an excuse before all the moralists jump on me, merely an explanation. I am not proud of this particular episode of my life but, hopefully, I’ve learnt enough not to make the same mistake again. No two people lead the exact same life so it is impossible for anyone to say what they would do if they were in another person’s shoes. We can only judge ourselves and offer advice to others. Often criticism says more about the person criticising than the one being criticised. Once again thank you for your advice and to the OW’s on here, I wish you luck, and hope you find peace and happiness. I was lucky in that I wasn’t in love with my MM and I can only imagine how hard it must be for those of you that are.
NoIDidn't Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 I, for one, am glad that you are walking away from this mess. I do wonder, though, are other MM now no longer in your consideration as well? Or just this one?
Tomcat33 Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 NoMore I am glad you came to a conclusion and that you were able to make peace with the situation. In fact once you start to heal you do have the upper hand because you do have the hope and the excitement of starting fresh with someone new, someone who can give you what you need given what you can take away from this experience. The reality is that MM in your situation is left with the same thing he had before he met you, whatever that is, it can't be that exciting since he needs multiple women to have some sort of thrill in his life. It is sad and that is what he is made for himself, while you get to move on from this and have a CLEAN fresh start. Oh I realize that. Not everyone out there can fully weigh the consequences their actions might bring before doing them or care how much pain they could cause others in their impulsive aim for what they want for however long they want it. I realized the existence of selfish people long before today, but no amount of psychological definitions makes it something we should strive to label and excuse. Oh I see you just need to vent and chastise you are not looking to have a discussion. Well get to it then, don't let me hold you up.
Author NoMore Posted July 9, 2008 Author Posted July 9, 2008 I, for one, am glad that you are walking away from this mess. I do wonder, though, are other MM now no longer in your consideration as well? Or just this one? MM were never in my consideration before this one came along and are certainly not now.I can't predict the future but I would like to think that I have learnt, not just from my own experience, but from reading others on here, that I will never be tempted by a MM again. I believe I'm worth more than anything a MM can offer me.
NoIDidn't Posted July 9, 2008 Posted July 9, 2008 MM were never in my consideration before this one came along and are certainly not now.I can't predict the future but I would like to think that I have learnt, not just from my own experience, but from reading others on here, that I will never be tempted by a MM again. I believe I'm worth more than anything a MM can offer me. Tell me this. I am curious. Did you really believe that he was being harrassed by the OW that he had a child with and he was still carrying on the A with her? Or was it just the way you worded it? This man sounds like such a cad. Poor child(ren). Some MM are really just confused and hurting from life themselves, and then there are ones like the one you were involved with. Again, just curious.
Author NoMore Posted July 9, 2008 Author Posted July 9, 2008 Tell me this. I am curious. Did you really believe that he was being harrassed by the OW that he had a child with and he was still carrying on the A with her? Or was it just the way you worded it? I did wonder whether the MM was exaggerating at first but since he was spotted recently with the OW, people have been talking. I've heard stories from people who were witness to some of the incidents and it actually sounded a lot worse than the MM had described. The A was public knowledge back then and they can't believe he would have anything to do with her now even with a child to consider.
NoIDidn't Posted July 10, 2008 Posted July 10, 2008 Wow. So its even worse than what you were told and he is STILL messing with her?!!! Something is wrong with him, for sure then. I bet that makes you feel even better about the decision not to continue with him. I do understand the "fun" part about the A in the beginning. We married folks do get wanderlust sometimes too. Fun is good. But, his kind of fun was just too much *fun*.
Author NoMore Posted July 10, 2008 Author Posted July 10, 2008 Wow. So its even worse than what you were told and he is STILL messing with her?!!! Something is wrong with him, for sure then. I bet that makes you feel even better about the decision not to continue with him. Ain't that the truth! He seems to be on a mission of self destruction and is taking everyone he can down with him. It's very sad and painful to watch but I'm so glad I'm out of it. Some people can't be helped I guess.
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 So what you're saying is every single guy is either a loser, a cross-dresser, a pedophile, an habitual gambler, or a chain saw killer? Ummm.... okayayayayay.... I guess you've been hanging out with some real winners, eh? Listen up, each and every gal on LS who is currently dating! Your guy is one of the above! Run - run, do not walk!!!! :lmao: ... that's funny!!
Confused_Me Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 But, if one keep coddling the person and giving them the easy stuff they can deal with, they will not grow that toughness or even get the full help they need. And they will grow sicker and die. DNR I wonder if anyone gets that? I get that ... but sometimes the OP's are hurting enough with what is going on and giving them more lemons does not always work. In a perfect world maybe. But we are not in a perfect world. This forum is for people seeking support. I also get that it is those such as yourself that lend a good balance. And, I don't believe it falls on death ears. I'm sure people hear you ... It is usually people with low self-worth (note: "usually"), that get themselves into the OP role. I know. I have done it once. It left me feeling horrible. When I eventually got strong I told the W about it and she didn't believe me. The coward H, denied everything and I was the bad person. Mind you, I was his friend to start with. He impressed me with gifts and praises and I stupidly lapped up the attention; even though I knew at the time it was wrong. He made me believe she was a horrible person, and I started to believe it in the end (backed up by what other people in the town thought of her too!). I guess I just wanted to feel loved and cherished at the time... all the while knowing it was wrong. I was in a mediocre position and he was in a position of superiority at work. I felt in awe... Stupid now I look back at what happened nearly 10 years ago... but back then, I needed to learn the lesson... That was the only married man I ever got involved with and ever will. Period. Sorry to hijack the thread. But I think it is important that you show a little compassion for the OP. No offense:)
whichwayisup Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 And, I don't believe it falls on death ears. That's cute. You sound like me as I do a hit and miss when it comes to expressions. It's deaf ears, but so what..lol. You've made a good point and sometimes when advice is given that is harsh and the OP sees it as an attack, it could mean he/she just isn't ready to take in that type of advice. But, usually they come back and eventually can take in the harsher advice and relate to it better.
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Yes I can, here is a resounding NO!!! for you, you are wrong. Do you get drawn into a single person only because you hope they will pick you over other singles, hence making you feel extra special for being the chosen one? Is this premiditated and the only thing driving you to fall in love with another human being? Is this something that is driven by a "twisted need"? NO it is a natural need that any person falling inlove with another person would require in order to feel that love. It is call reciprocation and it a basic need we all yern for and that is different than saying we set out to win over people out of a sense of competition, which in essence you are implying it is out of a low self esteem. Very underhanded claim to encompass the masses with. Of course there are those individuals that are driven by twisted needs, but that is not the norm. But when considering a MM/MW there is supposed to be rules we all abide by which provides those particular individuals with a force field that repels and precludes the romantic considerations of others if we all operate with the same conscience. When you get married to your OM TC I believe that you would hope this to be true for yourself for every marriage or relationship goes through its ups and downs and the last thing anyone needs to feel is that they may as well abandon the marriage during swings through the trough because their spouse will invevitably betray them during these periods. What ever happened to the indominable human spirit that perserveres in times of adversity? Have we all gotten so weak and superficial that we've lost our capicity for depth of character? Have we all become so afflicted with ADD that vows only mean something the day they're spoken and then they're forgotten forever? What examples, disciplines, and code of ethics do we pass on to the next generation? I think often times of the situation of emotional, spiritual, or physical abuse often witnessed by children in families who grow up and express the same patterns of behavior to their own spouses which is witnessed then again by their own children to continue a cycle from generation to generation. When and how does this cycle end you might ask? I believe that when the children, who've reached the age of comprehension, can, while observing this behavior, decide before they becomes an adult to actively reflect on how much damage this behavior is causing in their own lives, determine to reject this mindset for themselves, and make a lasting vow resolving never to treat their own children in this manner then the cycle of abuse dies the only place it can, in youth. I'm reminded of DNR as he explained how he and his brother made a pact to never mistreat women when they got older and to be a positive male role model when they had children to ensure that the next generation would know and have every security, hope, and happiness he was denyed as a child growing up without his own father in exchange for a cheating stepdad who abandoned the family. I know we're all human and the human need to interact can be so powerful that moral and ethical boundaries are often tempted to be crossed but, to me, adultery, betrayal, and the abandonment of any of one's vows are forms of spiritual abuse that are no less harmful than emotional or physical abuse so the temptation to cheat must be resisted at all costs. When do we stop all forms and manifestations of abuse to ensure our own happiness and set a better example to the next generation? I'm guessing we can't because, as in DNR's case, that decision has to start with the next generation during childhood for the current adult generation is too mired in their own dysfunctions to "see the forest for the trees".
OWoman Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Funny how you can move from Nope. With a SG (beyond a certain age, that would fall into the target range of many posters here) you're more likely to get: "Can you give me a ride to the copshop for my weekly check-in? My licence was revoked with my last DUI" "I promise I won't hit you again. I can't believe what came over me. It's like I was possessed." "I haven't had THAT mush to drink, honessht! I'm shtill ferpickly shober!" "Can I borrow twenty bucks - there's a dead cert at the races tomorrow, my buddy at the tote gave me a fail-safe tip-off" "No really that wasn't me you saw cruising for teenage prostitutes earlier. I was in meetings at work all day - you can ask my buddy Jack who was with me! It might have been Tom though - I loaned him my car to run an errand at lunch time as his is at the garage for repairs. The gasket blew last week and he has a hard time getting all his **** sorted without transport." "That wig and women's clothing were just for a joke, for Bob's stag party. I've no idea how it landed up in my cupboard. It's not even my size, look - do these stockings honestly look like they'll fit me?" "Blood-covered chainsaw? What blood-covered chainsaw?" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: to: So what you're saying is every single guy is either a loser, a cross-dresser, a pedophile, an habitual gambler, or a chain saw killer? Ummm.... okayayayayay.... I guess you've been hanging out with some real winners, eh? Listen up, each and every gal on LS who is currently dating! Your guy is one of the above! Run - run, do not walk!!!! :lmao: But hey, if it works for you.... (Short answer, though - No, that's not what I was saying - nor what anyone else who bothered to read what I'd written actually understood. Sorry to diappoint you - wrong again!)
OWoman Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 But when considering a MM/MW there is supposed to be rules we all abide by which provides those particular individuals with a force field that repels and precludes the romantic considerations of others if we all operate with the same conscience. But we don't. A first year course in anthropology would teach you that morals and ethics are culturally relative and that there are few, if any, taboos that can be considered "universal". Even incest and paedophilia are not universal. And given the number of societies where polygamy is still practiced, clearly your rules are not agreed by - let alone abided by - by all. I'm reminded of DNR as he explained how he and his brother made a pact to never mistreat women when they got older and so, when you witness him bashing women he disagrees with here and treating them with disrespect, you're convinced of the futility of it all?
Angel1111 Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 He's paying the price for gambling when he couldn't afford to lose. It's called 'consequences' and he's dealing with them in living color. But, he didn't really learn anything from that life experience so he's repeating it - for clarification, I suppose. I'm kinda baffled as to what you're post is about, though. You're upset that he didn't tell you about the OW? Why would he do that? I'm sure he'd love to forget it completely and make that inconvenient woman disapear. Plus, he knows it would put him in a bad light with you and then he might not be able to convince you to sleep with him. I'm going to take a stab here and say that there's probably a lot of things he doesn't tell you. The questions that come to my mind are: why would you sleep with a married man when you're not in love with him and when you know it's going nowhere? Not that any of those things are better reasons but they are higher motivators, so to speak. And, why aren't you not more upset about the fact that he got another woman pregnant, stays in his marriage, and then cheats again with someone else? I have to wonder why he continually keeps taking these chances with his marriage. I guess it wasn't enough that he ripped his wife's heart out once already with this previous affair that ended with a child. And now he's willing to go there again. Unbelievable. The real question seems to be, why are you with a man who's not deep enough to be shallow?
pelicanpreacher Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 But we don't. A first year course in anthropology would teach you that morals and ethics are culturally relative and that there are few, if any, taboos that can be considered "universal". Even incest and paedophilia are not universal. And given the number of societies where polygamy is still practiced, clearly your rules are not agreed by - let alone abided by - by all. and so, when you witness him bashing women he disagrees with here and treating them with disrespect, you're convinced of the futility of it all? Excuse my ignorance on the anthropological diversity in cultural ethics and morality. As a Catholic, I'm primarily speaking to the relative cultural homogeny of morals and ethics largely promoted throughout western society. Although we are diversified religously by denomination or new wave concept, there still remains a common thread that holds most of western society to a standard set of biblical laws as set forth in the 10 Commandments. The splintering, factioning, and redevelopment of religion throughout the ages in our particular society still compels people of all populations to act and behave in accordance to standards of decency and compassion to one another in pursuit of the common good. Of course one can always trot out examples completely contrary to the evidence but they represent the minority of views when considering the aggregate temperment of our society at large. As to DNR, he has shown himself to be somewhat "heavy handed" in his chastisement of what he considers poor attitudes, behaviors, and choices made by some posters but he has never crossed the line to attack anyone on a personal level or even made castigations against women in general. Sometimes you have to read between the lines of his posts to appreciate the message he's imparting but it still should not be considered as an attack or threat of any kind against anyone or any gender in particular. JMO!
Author NoMore Posted July 13, 2008 Author Posted July 13, 2008 The questions that come to my mind are: why would you sleep with a married man when you're not in love with him and when you know it's going nowhere? Not that any of those things are better reasons but they are higher motivators, so to speak. And, why aren't you not more upset about the fact that he got another woman pregnant, stays in his marriage, and then cheats again with someone else? I have to wonder why he continually keeps taking these chances with his marriage. I guess it wasn't enough that he ripped his wife's heart out once already with this previous affair that ended with a child. And now he's willing to go there again. Unbelievable. The real question seems to be, why are you with a man who's not deep enough to be shallow? Thanks for replying. I don’t know if you saw my earlier posting but I have now ended my A. I can’t begin to tell you now why I did what I did other than to say it made sense to me at the time and I honestly had no desire to hurt anyone. Sorry to be vague but to explain it all would probably mean giving you my life story. I knew I couldn’t afford to get too involved with him on an emotional level but did value him as a friend. I am angry with him for all the reasons you mentioned but it’s his deception of me as a ‘friend’ that is personal to me. I have a million theories as to what motivates him but I think the one that seems to be most borne out by his actions are a need for attention. An enraged OW with her child banging on his door when his wife and children are there seem to give him some kind of self validation, an ego boost despite the hurt it causes others. He never really got any drama from me, I’m not that kind of person, but since I’ve ended things, there have been a couple of instances where he has been almost childlike in trying to get my attention. It’s truly pitiful and I do really feel for his wife and children, albeit it a bit late.
Tomcat33 Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 But when considering a MM/MW there is supposed to be rules we all abide by which provides those particular individuals with a force field that repels and precludes the romantic considerations of others if we all operate with the same conscience. When you get married to your OM TC I believe that you would hope this to be true for yourself.......... too mired in their own dysfunctions to "see the forest for the trees". Sorry but what does all that have to do with my response to sally4sara which you quote me on? Originally Posted by sally4sara Please. You cannot tell me that one large aspect of why someone gets drawn into an affair with a married person isn't that they desire in some way to be chosen over another due to some twisted need to prove they are special. . Yes I can, here is a resounding NO!!! for you, you are wrong. Do you get drawn into a single person only because you hope they will pick you over other singles, hence making you feel extra special for being the chosen one? Is this premiditated and the only thing driving you to fall in love with another human being? Is this something that is driven by a "twisted need"? NO it is a natural need that any person falling inlove with another person would require in order to feel that love. It is call reciprocation and it a basic need we all yern for and that is different than saying we set out to win over people out of a sense of competition, which in essence you are implying it is out of a low self esteem. Very underhanded claim to encompass the masses with. Of course there are those individuals that are driven by twisted needs, but that is not the norm. She thinks that a big part of why people are drawn into affairs is because they want to be chosen over another person to be made to feel special and I think that is absurd and overly simplistic. I did not fall in love with a married man to spite or compete with his W. I compete with his W as much as any woman competes with any other woman when there is an object of desire to be had. It's like saying do people go into relationships to compete with other singles to be chosen so that they can be made to feel special?!?!? Some might some people who have issues and cannot spend a minute alone might, but most balanced individuals go into relationships because it feels great to love and be loved, there is no other underlying reason of competion with other people and to get chosen in order to feel "special".
Angel1111 Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Thanks for replying. I don’t know if you saw my earlier posting but I have now ended my A. I can’t begin to tell you now why I did what I did other than to say it made sense to me at the time and I honestly had no desire to hurt anyone. Sorry to be vague but to explain it all would probably mean giving you my life story. I knew I couldn’t afford to get too involved with him on an emotional level but did value him as a friend. I am angry with him for all the reasons you mentioned but it’s his deception of me as a ‘friend’ that is personal to me. I have a million theories as to what motivates him but I think the one that seems to be most borne out by his actions are a need for attention. An enraged OW with her child banging on his door when his wife and children are there seem to give him some kind of self validation, an ego boost despite the hurt it causes others. He never really got any drama from me, I’m not that kind of person, but since I’ve ended things, there have been a couple of instances where he has been almost childlike in trying to get my attention. It’s truly pitiful and I do really feel for his wife and children, albeit it a bit late. Ok, I see. You feel a little betrayed as a friend. Well, he probably did manipulate your friendship a little. I think that's his MO, unfortunately. I'm glad you didn't get emotionally involved with him, although I'm sure he's not used to that. It's difficult to get a clear picture of him because, in print, he sounds truly self-centered. But I guess he must have some redeeming qualities. I really feel for his wife and family. I hope his wife wises up and loses him like a bad habit.
luvmy2ns Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 Funny how you can move from to: But hey, if it works for you.... (Short answer, though - No, that's not what I was saying - nor what anyone else who bothered to read what I'd written actually understood. Sorry to diappoint you - wrong again!) So why the long, rambling discourse with no point? What a waste of time.
Lizzie60 Posted July 14, 2008 Posted July 14, 2008 My only advice.. dump the b*stard... this guy is a weak, spineless man.
GPFan Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 ah but you see we are advised that even D men aren't "safe" as 'they MAY go back'........ so that leaves us with the widowed and seriously single (we're talking age range over 50 here). I find it hard to believe anyone dispenses this piece of advice as generalised to all divorced men. I would only expect to see a this type of warning advice if the man is trying to leave for another woman. Did I misread your post?
Lookingforward Posted July 15, 2008 Posted July 15, 2008 I find it hard to believe anyone dispenses this piece of advice as generalised to all divorced men. I would only expect to see a this type of warning advice if the man is trying to leave for another woman. Did I misread your post? I wasn't dispensing advice - I was being sarcastic as I have seen this type of thing said SO many times here.............
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