The Other OW

I am sure a lot of parents here would not support their children if they were doing something that was obviously wrong. We will talk to them. We will scold them. And some of us spank them. Not to be mean or evil (though in the eyes of a child it might seem so) but to correct them if they are being dense. The same with letting suffer the consequences of their actions. If we did not do these things, they would never grow up to be strong independent adults who add to society and life, instead of take away and harm it. Of course such things are not 100%, but the majority try anyway, cross their fingers or pray to God that they learned and are successful.

The same things happen as adults. We do something wrong on our jobs, break the law, etc. We get scolded and sometimes punished, fined, fired, or what have you for our actions. How should that be any less here? I'm going to tell you, even profession counselors will do the same thing if they got someone who just don't get what is being said. That won't face the situation and deal with it. And usually those situations are from within. That is no difference here.

Sometimes the advice we get doesn't go down as smooth and sweet as honey and milk, but bitter and rough like lemon and aspirin. We my not like it, we might make our faces, but if it helps with what ails us, then it does its job. But, one has to be willing to take it, absorb that which is suppose to help us, and expel the rest, get better and move on.

But, if one keep coddling the person and giving them the easy stuff they can deal with, they will not grow that toughness or even get the full help they need. And they will grow sicker and die.

DNR

I wonder if anyone gets that?

And now, maybe I am wrong here,, if I am YOU tell me why this woman deserves support

because you are not God and judge - and she is posting on a board set up for discussion and SUPPORT for those in her situation........

You don't like that support is what is offered by other posters then take it up with the site mods or owners...........

because you are not God and judge - and she is posting on a board set up for discussion and SUPPORT for those in her situation........

 

You don't like that support is what is offered by other posters then take it up with the site mods or owners...........

I think everyone should have the right to state their opinions. But, if I remember correctly, it was not me who attacked someone's opinion because they did not show the support in the way someone else think they might have.

It was you and a few other members who attacked my views of those who are still engage in such illicit behavior need to stop. Its not right. I don't know if you got that or care. But, I am taking that like a few others you just don't give a damn about anyone but yourselves in this. Your not thinking about the wife who has to put up with this crap. Or the children who are in the crossfire. And neither does many of these posters. They are only after comfort for themselves not caring about the damage they are causing. But, off course I am taking you don't get that and/or care. So, I make my statements not for you or others like you, but for those who do care and who do want to know why it is happening. Those who need and want to here it is partially their fault. Those who need and want that kick in the butt to find the strength to go, "I am above this. This is not right for me. I deserve WAY better that what this relationship is giving me. And that I will stop hurting others for my own happiness."

So, if you really want this to be a the end of my responses... Ignore them. Don't reply. That is within your option and ability. I am all for agreeing to disagree.

DNR

I am sure a lot of parents here would not support their children if they were doing something that was obviously wrong. We will talk to them. We will scold them. And some of us spank them.

Luckily any physical violence against children is against the law here. It's perfectly possible to raise healthy, sane children who don't get into bad stuff without resorting to any of that "getting heavy" stuff - as I've proven. My kids have never been in any kind of trouble: although they are independent, critical thinkers, they're capable of conducting rational discussions and refuting arguments without needing to step outside of the rules. They've never needed scolding or beating because they've realised BEFORE doing something that would be wrong what the consequences would be, and they've weighed them up and decided against that. DNR I hope when you have kids one day that you don't adopt the approach you've outlined above. All you'll do is create thugs that learn to hide their misdeeds from you so that they don't get beaten.

Perhaps, but aside from the obvious, quite often there aren't any more messes to be wary of than with a single person, from what I've seen anyway.

 

Not every D is a war of the roses

Yeah, this is sooo true so there is really no reason at all to stop contributing to as many divorces as you have opportunity for.

"Ohhhh, I'm just a girl who can't say no. I'm in a terrible fix!"

We can go back and forth all day we each trying to prove the other wrong, especially in things that ALWAYS have exceptions to the rules. The fact of the matter is this, you have your defenses up and I have mines. The only thing I can suggest is this. We agree to disagree and ignore each other's posts. This why we can avoid all the back and forth needling and knit picking.

DNR

My problem? I am not in love with him, and I knew it wasn’t going to be forever. I never wanted to get too emotionally involved because I knew it would be too hard. But now I am so angry with him for not telling me of this OW. I’m so frustrated that he lets her manipulate him and use her child as an emotional weapon. Neither MM or myself has said outright that it is over between us but it probably is. NC isn’t even an option as we work together. No one at work knew about us but they know we are good friends. It’s so hard acting as if nothing has happened.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice?

We only get back what we put out there.

This is probably the first thing to find an answer to. Sometimes you can't move forward with decisions about the future until you've really figured out what led up to your past decisions. Part of that is realizing that every human being has a CHOICE, relationships and other human interactions don't just "happen" to us like tsunamis. Good luck.

Nope. With a SG (beyond a certain age, that would fall into the target range of many posters here) you're more likely to get:

 

"Can you give me a ride to the copshop for my weekly check-in? My licence was revoked with my last DUI"

 

"I promise I won't hit you again. I can't believe what came over me. It's like I was possessed."

 

"I haven't had THAT mush to drink, honessht! I'm shtill ferpickly shober!"

 

"Can I borrow twenty bucks - there's a dead cert at the races tomorrow, my buddy at the tote gave me a fail-safe tip-off"

 

"No really that wasn't me you saw cruising for teenage prostitutes earlier. I was in meetings at work all day - you can ask my buddy Jack who was with me! It might have been Tom though - I loaned him my car to run an errand at lunch time as his is at the garage for repairs. The gasket blew last week and he has a hard time getting all his **** sorted without transport."

 

"That wig and women's clothing were just for a joke, for Bob's stag party. I've no idea how it landed up in my cupboard. It's not even my size, look - do these stockings honestly look like they'll fit me?"

 

"Blood-covered chainsaw? What blood-covered chainsaw?" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Is it that married men are the only images of perfect manhood? There aren't any married man who drink, batter, mishandle money, gamble, or cross-dress? Preposterous!

Should Mothers advise their single Daughters to search for that perfect, already married man as he will come without a single imperfection because his wife already drove/beat those bad qualities out of him?

Is it that not all men are created equal and the dividing line is a marriage certificate?

Even beyond a certain age there are good proven marriageable men available due to divorce and death. Some men remain single throughout their youth because their job/vocation/hobbies aren't suited to married life. Nothing wrong with that once he is ready to settle down.

Just because a man is married does not make him the end-all-and-be-all.

Yeah, this is sooo true so there is really no reason at all to stop contributing to as many divorces as you have opportunity for.

 

 

"Ohhhh, I'm just a girl who can't say no. I'm in a terrible fix!"

LMAO! S4S, too funny!

My kids have never been in any kind of trouble: although they are independent, critical thinkers, they're capable of conducting rational discussions and refuting arguments without needing to step outside of the rules. They've never needed scolding or beating because they've realised BEFORE doing something that would be wrong what the consequences would be, and they've weighed them up and decided against that. DNR I hope when you have kids one day that you don't adopt the approach you've outlined above. All you'll do is create thugs that learn to hide their misdeeds from you so that they don't get beaten.

Remarkable!

Luckily any physical violence against children is against the law here. It's perfectly possible to raise healthy, sane children who don't get into bad stuff without resorting to any of that "getting heavy" stuff - as I've proven. My kids have never been in any kind of trouble: although they are independent, critical thinkers, they're capable of conducting rational discussions and refuting arguments without needing to step outside of the rules. They've never needed scolding or beating because they've realised BEFORE doing something that would be wrong what the consequences would be, and they've weighed them up and decided against that. DNR I hope when you have kids one day that you don't adopt the approach you've outlined above. All you'll do is create thugs that learn to hide their misdeeds from you so that they don't get beaten.

I have to respectfully disagree with spanking. I was spanked, as were my relatives and my children. We aren't thugs or criminals who lie to hide our bad choices. Spankings done in conjunction with love, support and conversation aren't bad. And those of us who live by the word of God are instructed to discipline when necessary with corporal punishment. It isn't necessary after a certain age, if administered right. I haven't spanked my kids in years. But I do use different consequences for inappropriate actions. If I use a blanket statement about parents who don't use spankings as a form of discipline early on, then I would say the kids I work with needed a firmer hand than they got. But that would say that parents like you who didn't use it a successfully raised children without spanking are wrong. I can't do that. So it would seem that to say all parents who use spanking are wrong. IMO

Even as small children they were like this? Are you sure they are human? Maybe you were abducted by aliens and have been unknowingly raising another species.

 

Remarkable!

Wow! I missed that post. I have SO got to agree with you here. I mean, who can honestly say their children have NEVER needed to be corrected? How in the world would a child know what is right and wrong until they are corrected when they've done wrong? They cannot know what is right and wrong in the first place until they've committed a wrong and you point out the error of their ways. Unless, of course, your world has no right and wrong. Or unless you're super-parent and have come up with a list of all possible wrongs a child could ever commit in a lifetime and have a nice talk with them at, say, age 1 1/2 and explain said list thoroughly, they soak up alllll that knowledge and wisdom immediately and, of course, obediently apply it without question.

LMAO! S4S, too funny!

Oh it gets better.

See you can turn it into a game for points.

If you can contribute to a divorce between a couple that didn't have any property to settle and no children that would be one point towards indication how irresistible you are. Two points if he was willing to give up property. But the real points come in when they have property and kids. Three points there with an extra one for every child he was willing to betray over his desire for you. However you don't get any extra points if the wife goes into depression or the kids end up in therapy - that wouldn't be your doing in any way. Its not your fault they can't keep it together.

This way, when you retire from the circuit, you have a tallied amount with which to validate your worth. You can pull it out and show the other ladies in the nursing home just how valuable a woman you really were back in the day.

Even beyond a certain age there are good proven marriageable men available due to divorce and death. Some men remain single throughout their youth because their job/vocation/hobbies aren't suited to married life. Nothing wrong with that once he is ready to settle down.

 

Just because a man is married does not make him the end-all-and-be-all.

ah but you see we are advised that even D men aren't "safe" as 'they MAY go back'........ so that leaves us with the widowed and seriously single (we're talking age range over 50 here).

fwiw I really think OWs post was tongue in cheek following on from a prior posting. You get your laughs where you can

Oh it gets better.

See you can turn it into a game for points.

If you can contribute to a divorce between a couple that didn't have any property to settle and no children that would be one point towards indication how irresistible you are. Two points if he was willing to give up property. But the real points come in when they have property and kids. Three points there with an extra one for every child he was willing to betray over his desire for you. However you don't get any extra points if the wife goes into depression or the kids end up in therapy - that wouldn't be your doing in any way. Its not your fault they can't keep it together.

 

This way, when you retire from the circuit, you have a tallied amount with which to validate your worth. You can pull it out and show the other ladies in the nursing home just how valuable a woman you really were back in the day.

I truly believe there are VERY few that are involved in an A as a "game".

ah but you see we are advised that even D men aren't "safe" as 'they MAY go back'........ so that leaves us with the widowed and seriously single (we're talking age range over 50 here).

 

fwiw I really think OWs post was tongue in cheek following on from a prior posting. You get your laughs where you can

And isn't that just the craziest thing you've ever heard :) And don't forget that the single guy isn't safe because he may get hit by a truck. You're gonna get hurt!! Better stay in your little feather bed with the pillow over your head!! :lmao:

Oh it gets better.

See you can turn it into a game for points.

If you can contribute to a divorce between a couple that didn't have any property to settle and no children that would be one point towards indication how irresistible you are. Two points if he was willing to give up property. But the real points come in when they have property and kids. Three points there with an extra one for every child he was willing to betray over his desire for you. However you don't get any extra points if the wife goes into depression or the kids end up in therapy - that wouldn't be your doing in any way. Its not your fault they can't keep it together.

 

This way, when you retire from the circuit, you have a tallied amount with which to validate your worth. You can pull it out and show the other ladies in the nursing home just how valuable a woman you really were back in the day.

"...back in the day."

Yes, there will come a time when another woman will be younger and prettier than the current OW, won't there?

I truly believe there are VERY few that are involved in an A as a "game".

Please.

You cannot tell me that one large aspect of why someone gets drawn into an affair with a married person isn't that they desire in some way to be chosen over another due to some twisted need to prove they are special.

It is indicated quite clearly in all the excuses they make about their married person's intentions.

No he really loves me. (Even though he had to have claimed this with his wife at some point)

She's being mistreated and is going to leave him for me because I treat her better. (what else would they say to the other person? That they have so honor and are just selfish?)

She just doesn't understand him like I do.

Its different with us.

I meet his needs; she doesn't.

Etc. etc. etc.

Please.

You cannot tell me that one large aspect of why someone gets drawn into an affair with a married person isn't that they desire in some way to be chosen over another due to some twisted need to prove they are special.

 

.

Yes I can, here is a resounding NO!!! for you, you are wrong.

Do you get drawn into a single person only because you hope they will pick you over other singles, hence making you feel extra special for being the chosen one? Is this premiditated and the only thing driving you to fall in love with another human being? Is this something that is driven by a "twisted need"? NO it is a natural need that any person falling inlove with another person would require in order to feel that love. It is call reciprocation and it a basic need we all yern for and that is different than saying we set out to win over people out of a sense of competition, which in essence you are implying it is out of a low self esteem.

Very underhanded claim to encompass the masses with. Of course there are those individuals that are driven by twisted needs, but that is not the norm.

Yes I can, here is a resounding NO!!! for you, you are wrong.

 

Do you get drawn into a single person only because you hope they will pick you over other singles, hence making you feel extra special for being the chosen one? Is this premiditated and the only thing driving you to fall in love with another human being? Is this something that is driven by a "twisted need"? NO it is a natural need that any person falling inlove with another person would require in order to feel that love. It is call reciprocation and it a basic need we all yern for and that is different than saying we set out to win over people out of a sense of competition, which in essence you are implying it is out of a low self esteem.

 

Very underhanded claim to encompass the masses with. Of course there are those individuals that are driven by twisted needs, but that is not the norm.

Then why is this the common mindset I run across IRL and the implicating statements I sited extremely common with these types of threads?

I'm sure the natural human push to seek love comes in to play with affairs, but that isn't an urge that prevents people who doubt their self worth from falling into these messes.

There are plenty of people who found love without being so imposing or willing to be an accessory to infidelity. Why, in the face of that, would someone go about finding love in this way if it is not some need for validation as the "chosen one"?

It is common knowledge that we perpetuate our own worst fears. Even in all the ways we try to alleviate them. We also are most attracted to people and situations where we feel at ease. It would ease the mind of a person who deep down fears they are unlovable or desirable if they could not just be chosen, but chosen over some other option. But the only way to do this is to pit themselves against some other heavy option such as a spouse, or impressive job option in a far off location. These scenarios add to the feelings of intensity and feed the need for drama - and until a final choice by the MM/MW is made, the hope of being chosen and proven desirable over whatever other obligations and options the person had to begin with.

Of course anyone willing to get involved in an affair isn't going to want to see this. No one wants to admit to being weak-willed or needy.

Then why is this the common mindset I run across IRL and the implicating statements I sited extremely common with these types of threads?

I'm sure the natural human push to seek love comes in to play with affairs, but that isn't an urge that prevents people who doubt their self worth from falling into these messes.

There are plenty of people who found love without being so imposing or willing to be an accessory to infidelity. Why, in the face of that, would someone go about finding love in this way if it is not some need for validation as the "chosen one"?

It is common knowledge that we perpetuate our own worst fears. Even in all the ways we try to alleviate them. We also are most attracted to people and situations where we feel at ease. It would ease the mind of a person who deep down fears they are unlovable or desirable if they could not just be chosen, but chosen over some other option. But the only way to do this is to pit themselves against some other heavy option such as a spouse, or impressive job option in a far off location. These scenarios add to the feelings of intensity and feed the need for drama - and until a final choice by the MM/MW is made, the hope of being chosen and proven desirable over whatever other obligations and options the person had to begin with.

 

Of course anyone willing to get involved in an affair isn't going to want to see this. No one wants to admit to being weak-willed or needy.

While I agree on the "concept" you are trying to describe I urge you read about the Imago. A great book that explains this in depth is the book Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix. You are circling around the idea of what the Imago is said to be but is not due to lack of self esteem or weakness or neediness. Needs we all have, and what the Imago states is that in theory we are born whole and but we are wounded along the way as early as as in our baby state. As adults we subconsciously choose life mates that awaken this need to heal those wounds that we collect in our childhoods. But eventually find out that our mates only wound us further and hence we feel it is a wrong match. The stronger the imago connection the more probability a couple is well matched, when there is nothing to heal then the idea is that the Imago is poorly matched.

The attraction, or soul mate discovery phase that often draws two people together comes from a very subconscious depth and so this idea does not deviate or vanish just because two people meet in a less than ideal situation such as meeting a person that is already committed. Reason, or in other words MORALS, should play a part in the decision making process but that's indipendent of the fact that the Imago attraction is still happening underneath.

Uh...the first OW harassed them....but during this 'harassment' the A was still on and off and the MM basically carried on hooking up to avoid the drama? Yeah right. Seriously, could anyone really believe that?

 

I stopped reading after that part. Who has sex with someone that is harrassing them? What? To get them to stop? That will only encourage them?

My thoughts...either this man or his girlfriend is incredibly gullible. Who actually believes that one stops harrassment by giving in to it?

While I agree on the "concept" you are trying to describe I urge you read about the Imago. A great book that explains this in depth is the book Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix. You are circling around the idea of what the Imago is said to be but is not due to lack of self esteem or weakness or neediness. Needs we all have, and what the Imago states is that in theory we are born whole and but we are wounded along the way as early as as in our baby state. As adults we subconsciously choose life mates that awaken this need to heal those wounds that we collect in our childhoods. But eventually find out that our mates only wound us further and hence we feel it is a wrong match. The stronger the imago connection the more probability a couple is well matched, when there is nothing to heal then the idea is that the Imago is poorly matched.

 

The attraction, or soul mate discovery phase that often draws two people together comes from a very subconscious depth and so this idea does not deviate or vanish just because two people meet in a less than ideal situation such as meeting a person that is already committed. Reason, or in other words MORALS, should play a part in the decision making process but that's indipendent of the fact that the Imago attraction is still happening underneath.

So couldn't the affair happen due to another Imago connection? That kind of pull towards another person cannot just be used to explain why you chose the person you married and not ever the person you have an affair with. It sounds like an excuse to continue to enter into an affair by explaining why there is a lacking in the marriage relationship.

"Go ahead because you chose you marriage in some effort to sooth past wounds and now your marriage in invalid because of it. Don't bother getting divorced because of it though; just cheat."

Wouldn't it also mean that people willing to get involved with MM or MW might be doing so because of your little Imago connection too and the relationship they seek to create will likely become invalid for the same reasons making it even more so pointless to step into someone else's marriage over?

S4S

Does this mean that the OPs life is so messed up that she was drawn to his mess?

S4S

 

Does this mean that the OPs life is so messed up that she was drawn to his mess?

Could be. Her post did come off very cavalier about how she only wanted sex but had to step into someone else's marriage to find it.

So couldn't the affair happen due to another Imago connection? That kind of pull towards another person cannot just be used to explain why you chose the person you married and not ever the person you have an affair with. It sounds like an excuse to continue to enter into an affair by explaining why there is a lacking in the marriage relationship.

"Go ahead because you chose you marriage in some effort to sooth past wounds and now your marriage in invalid because of it. Don't bother getting divorced because of it though; just cheat."

Wouldn't it also mean that people willing to get involved with MM or MW might be doing so because of your little Imago connection too and the relationship they seek to create will likely become invalid for the same reasons making it even more so pointless to step into someone else's marriage over?

What are you talking about, of course that is excatly what I mean!?!?? An Imago applies to ALL connections of attraction. And you can have any opinion about why these connections are formed, and that's fine. My opinion on attraction is what I previously posted. I provided a psychological school of thought theory to back up why I see things as I do, you seem to only have an opinion and that's fine but understand not everyone is going to adhere to your opinion.