Is THIS a red flag?

[Star Gazer]

While I'm a believer in the wisdom of the crowd, I do question the "wisdom" of your early relationship "red flag" threads. No relationship, especially early on, can withstand too much scrutiny and analysis. You're a very analytical women, which is fine in many, but not all, life pursuits.

 

I know you've been burned in the past, but having LS posters vet your seedling relationships based on your accounts of what the man said or how he acted may interfere with early, vulnerable relationships. New relationships cannot blossom when subjected to withering public micro-scrutiny. They abort.

 

In sum, LoveShack, with all its distractions and silly crowd noise, may not be good for your love life. Too much analysis and advice freezes the Heart.

 

Take no offense, but if your goal is to find a mate, keep your new relationships off LS. On the other hand, if you want to maintain your public diary, keep posting. It's always fun and entertaining on your Threads.

 

All good thoughts, and probably a good idea, J.

[Star Gazer]

Not once have I said that someone single and in their mid-thirties was undateable. What I said is that someone who hasn't fallen in love by the time they've reached their mid-thirties has commitment, etc. issues. Also, anyone who's not been married by the time they hit their mid-thirties, should have some warning lights go off, due to the possibility of being too set in their ways.

 

Never fallen in love by their mid-30's seems to be a red flag, because it suggests that the person isn't capable of being in love. I wouldn't agree that it's necessarily a sign of commitment issues.

 

Never being married by their mid-30's I really don't think is a warning sign, not at all. I'd much rather date someone in their mid-30's who's never been married than someone who's already divorced.

[Trialbyfire]

Never fallen in love by their mid-30's seems to be a red flag, because it suggests that the person isn't capable of being in love. I wouldn't agree that it's necessarily a sign of commitment issues.

 

Never being married by their mid-30's I really don't think is a warning sign, not at all. I'd much rather date someone in their mid-30's who's never been married than someone who's already divorced.

See, you have your own warning signs. So go with it. No one person is universally attractive, with universally attractive histories or compatible attributes.

[Art_Critic]

All good thoughts, and probably a good idea, J.

 

To a point SG... how much merit you give to advice on LS is also something to consider...

 

You started this simple thread asking for simple advice on a simple red flag and it seems to have taken on a life of it's own..

 

I see your thread as something no different than if you picked up the phone and asked your GF's the same question..

 

Asking for first date advice on LS isn't a bad thing.. you had a question about a flag you saw and asked a simple question... thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn........................................

[Star Gazer]

You started this simple thread asking for simple advice on a simple red flag and it seems to have taken on a life of it's own..

 

I see your thread as something no different than if you picked up the phone and asked your GF's the same question..

 

To the contrary... If I asked my GFs, I wouldn't have experienced the vitrol we saw here before posts were deleted.

 

My threads always seem to take on a life of their own. Wonder why that is?

[Star Gazer]

So go with it. No one person is universally attractive, with universally attractive histories or compatible attributes.

 

Agreed.

[CharlesFarley]

- Forgets to introduce me to her "male" friends while I'm standing right there, happens quite often.

 

- Almost never makes my lunch for work (while making hers and her sons), or does me any direct favors unless I specifically ask.

 

- Has no tact or limits to how she fires off low-blows when we're fighting.

 

- If I'm mad and ignore her, she ignores me right back. She's pretty much "eye-for-eye" for anything I do, even if I don't mean it. She holds my anger to me, and its like she's taking score.

 

Thoughts?

[Star Gazer]

- Forgets to introduce me to her "male" friends while I'm standing right there, happens quite often.

 

- Almost never makes my lunch for work (while making hers and her sons), or does me any direct favors unless I specifically ask.

 

- Has no tact or limits to how she fires off low-blows when we're fighting.

 

- If I'm mad and ignore her, she ignores me right back. She's pretty much "eye-for-eye" for anything I do, even if I don't mean it. She holds my anger to me, and its like she's taking score.

 

Thoughts?

 

Get your own thread.

[grogster]

To a point SG... how much merit you give to advice on LS is also something to consider...

 

You started this simple thread asking for simple advice on a simple red flag and it seems to have taken on a life of it's own..

 

I see your thread as something no different than if you picked up the phone and asked your GF's the same question..

 

Asking for first date advice on LS isn't a bad thing.. you had a question about a flag you saw and asked a simple question... thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn........................................

 

"Thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" the law of diminishing returns hits. Most Threads lose their focus, utility and value after the second page. By the third page, the conversation goes off tangent, side issues arise and it's everyone's Thread. Threads aren't so much hijacked as the original poster and her opening thread issues fade away to be replaced by Shackers in side conversations--some of which are smart or silly or snide.

 

Much like this.

[Star Gazer]

Get your own thread.

 

That was rude of me.

 

Welcome. PLEASE get your own thread.

[amerikajin]

Not once have I said that someone single and in their mid-thirties was undateable. What I said is that someone who hasn't fallen in love by the time they've reached their mid-thirties has commitment, etc. issues. Also, anyone who's not been married by the time they hit their mid-thirties, should have some warning lights go off, due to the possibility of being too set in their ways.

 

I think that it's worth knowing more about the individual; I don't think that warning lights need to go off or red flags need to be raised. I agree that it is unusual and that you should find out more about why that person hasn't been in a serious relationship up to that point. People are waiting longer to get married these days anyway for a number of reasons. You're just making a blanket judgment based on what exactly?

 

I've been in love and in at least one relationship of longer than two years, but I've never been married. I wouldn't want someone making a judgment about me on that fact alone, although there's no way I could stop them if they did obviously. I've got my issues - I would concede that and be upfront about that with whoever I'm dating at any given point in time. But that doesn't mean that I don't want to marry or settle down at some point. What's more, whoever I date is going to have their own issues, too. Marriage is a big decision. I wouldn't want to date someone who doesn't head into that kind of situation unless they have had the time to know for sure that this is what they want.

 

Regardless of age, I would want to take the approach to marriage very slowly. I'm dating someone now who I am actually beginning to like a lot, but I'm taking it slowly. Neither one of us have been married. I'm over 30 and she'll be 30 within the next year. I don't think either of us are necessarily strange for having waited this long, although both of us have been in at least one meaningful relationship already. I would concede that the fact that we've been in a relationship before gives us perspective that someone who hasn't might not have. They can't look back and see what went wrong in their previous relationships, I suppose; or maybe in some cases, they're serial daters and could look back but simply don't, in which case, yes, that is a red flag. But I would find out what's up rather than just say, "Whoa, red flag. Waiter, check please." The OP is going to end up being 35 and single if she keeps looking for red flags, and then the guys she's out with are going to start seeing red flags of their own. Is that what she wants?

 

People (myself included by the way) often end up causing themselves a lot of unnecessary complication. I think people need to stop analyzing sh*t and just go with the flow of the relationship. Just feel it out. Get to know the person. Get a vibe. See if the vibe is true or whether you're just dealing with a good faker. Approach each stage in the relationship with patience but with cautious determination to make the best of what you have in front of you.

 

Anyone who's emotionally unavailable needs to review why they are and work on it, previous to seriously dating. They also should be upfront about it, while working through their issues, regardless of casual or serious dating. What I see are too many people who live in the land of de-nile or deliberately hiding this fact, for personal gain aka getting laid or hoping someone will fix them.

 

I see what you're saying and I don't necessarily disagree. Maybe we actually agree more than we disagree on this. I guess I was just reacting to some of the initial comments about people being 30-something and single and that this is automatically a red flag, as if they guy should be avoided. I think that's too artificial. It's something worth asking about but if you like what you see why not just interact with the guy and get your own gut reaction before taking the things that people say or their own history of dating out of context. That's all I'm saying. Maybe you're even saying the same thing, I don't know.

[Star Gazer]

People are waiting longer to get married these days anyway for a number of reasons. You're just making a blanket judgment based on what exactly?

 

I agree. I was actually thinking about this on my drive to work this morning. Of my friends, only three are married or ever have been married. Two of those three women never went to college. The other one is a newlywed and 30. The rest of my good friends are - for the most part - single, nowhere near marriage. They're all college-educated, most have masters or doctorates, and ALL are professional women (attorneys, accountants, bankers, architechts, executives, you get the idea)...as are the single men they date. We're all in our late-20's and early 30's.

 

We (both men and women) don't have the need or drive to partner up and pop out babies like we did back in the day. I don't think waiting until all your ducks are lined up in a row to partner with someone for life is indicative of any sort of flaw.

 

What concerns me is when someone hasn't even allowed themselves to fall in love.

[Trialbyfire]

You're just making a blanket judgment based on what exactly?

I can see you're taking this personally since it's your situation. I don't take your assumption about divorcées personally. It's okay for you to have your preferences.

 

My blanket judgement of a warning light, not the red flag that you're stuck on, is from personal experience.

[Art_Critic]

I guess I was just reacting to some of the initial comments about people being 30-something and single and that this is automatically a red flag, as if they guy should be avoided.

 

I was 33 ( or there abouts if my math is correct ) when I walked down the aisle the first time...

 

I also had been engaged 2 other times than that and never made it to the alter..

I also had a few live in GF's that all went over one year and one up to 4 years..

I would never had put myself in a red flag category..

I was just busy living life and working to worry about if I was going to be married one day..

 

In fact I was quite the eligible bachelor that many women sought ...

[amerikajin]

I can see you're taking this personally since it's your situation. I don't take your assumption about divorcées personally. It's okay for you to have your preferences.

 

My blanket judgement of a warning light, not the red flag that you're stuck on, is from personal experience.

 

Fair enough.

 

I'm reacting to it because the description applies to me, but I'm not angry or upset at you or anything like that. Nor was I trying to take a cheap shot at you for being divorced, as I am already aware of the circumstances you've described in the past. I did that only to show that there are all kinds of perspective on this and that so-called "red flags" are not universal but are probably, in fact, influenced by personal experiences one way or the other. I'm just giving my reaction, and I guess I am admittedly biased.

 

But even when I look at the other people I've known, irrespective of their situation, I don't see any evidence that being 30 and single is necessarily a bad thing, and I don't necessarily see being 30 and inexperienced as necessarily a deal-breaker either. I think you have to take time to evaluate how people behave and compare it to what else they say and so forth.

 

I absolutely agree that there are a lot of people who are 35 and single who have no clue about how to live with other people, and haven't the ability to adapt to a living situation. Conversely, though, someone else who is 35 and takes time to get into a relationship can often turn out to be better than someone who is 35 and jaded by all of their "valuable" dating "experience".

 

To add to this, I was 25 years and 6 months before I even had what I would call my first real relationship. I was in a lot of ways a 'late bloomer'. I was underweight and kinda scrawny until I started working out more, and I gradually started dating more by the time I was 23 and 24, but even the ones I did date never really amounted to anything. I was the classic 'nice guy' and just generally clueless about relationships. A lot of girls would have seen someone who was 25 and never really had a girlfriend as a classic 'red flag', as someone who was just for whatever reason spurned by women. My ex fortunately never saw it that way. She accepted that I was who I was and that while I had issues, she wasn't going to just cut off a good thing because of that. The relationship ended up not working out long-term and looking back I admit that a lot of it had to do with my own immaturity, but she had her own issues as well. Even so, I don't regret what we had for a moment and I spent a long time trying to find something that paralleled that experience. I've had a couple of other girlfriends in between but only one relationship I'd call even remotely long term, a girl I dated for about a year while I was overseas. I've had to sort out a lot of my own issues, and I still do.

 

What I've gradually come to realize in the last 12 to 18 months of dating is that I keep complicating things in relationships for myself, and this discussion strikes home for that reason. I, too, have my so-called red flags when in reality, I shouldn't. I'm fortunate to be with someone right now who just wouldn't go away even when I was beginning to pull out of the relationship. I'm with someone who's letting me have my space and letting my go at my own pace, yet she's still clearly interested in the relationship. We just keep things simple. We don't analyze sh*t, we just go with the flow. I admit that I've dated women more physically attractive and all that, but that's in no way a slight to her. She's attractive to me in her own way. She could have at any point said 'Oh no way, he's 34 and still single. Forget it.' But she doesn't do that.

 

Whether we work out in the long run is another issue. There's this distance thing, but for right now we're together. We'll be apart in a couple of months. I hope things don't change, but we're just taking things one step at a time for now. But relationships can work as long as two people are committed to making them work. That's what long-term relationships depend on more than anything else: commitment. Are you and the person you're dating the kind of people who can persevere and not quit when things get difficult? Can you adapt? Can you compromise? Can you find common ground and at the same time respectably disagree on something and leave it at that? Those are the questions that have to be answered. I won't say that age and experience aren't factors, but they're not what's really important.

[grogster]

No one likes to be the target of an irrebuttable presumption: eg, a cheater ? then always a cheater; 35 never been married? then you're unmarriageable; divorced? then your damaged goods with lots of baggage.

 

One's individuality is lost to negative presumptions that arise, regardless of the evidence, that the ex-cheater, divorced spouse or middle-aged unmarried is unworthy of serious consideration. Employing a market model, these three types have less relative value in the marriage market because of weaker demand due to their product "defects" or characteristics.

 

People place value on potential mates based on a host of general assumptions--some valid, some not. Rightly or wrongly, that's what we do.

[bones1]

What is this world coming to?

 

In my opinion, a red flag is if a man has been in prison, is abusive on your date, rude, on drugs, comes to meet you completely drunk, etc.

 

No matter how he answers the love question, someone who wants to find flags will. He could have said "Yes, I was in love with my ex".. Then you would be posting if that is a flag illustrating that he is on the rebound.

 

He could have said "yes several times" Then you would be posting to ask if he has commitment issues, and why didn't it work out?

 

He could be divorced with kids, then that would be an issue.

 

No matter what he would have said, you would most likely be picking it apart.

[Star Gazer]

In my opinion, a red flag is if a man has been in prison, is abusive on your date, rude, on drugs, comes to meet you completely drunk, etc.

 

Those are beyond red flags. Those = closed doors.

[Lishy]

I think Star has the right idea keeping her eyes wide open - It has been a lack of that in the past that had caused her much heartache!

 

Heartache really hurts!

[CaliGuy]

What is this world coming to?

 

In my opinion, a red flag is if a man has been in prison, is abusive on your date, rude, on drugs, comes to meet you completely drunk, etc.

 

Those are red OCEANS of flags. Red flags are things you need to pay attention to that warn you this person is not a good fit. If you get to the point of what you listed above and haven't noticed any red flags, I'd say you're blind or completely oblivious to the obvious.

[bones1]

A woman whom REALLY wants a relationship, is looking for qualities a man might possess. Is he hard working, does he seem sincere, does he have good lifestyle habits, am I attracted to him, is he polite, etc.

 

If you are the type that obsessively looks for flags, you will never meet, or keep anyone. Everyone has "flags" that might not make them perfect relationship material. Anything can be read into, and a flag turned out of it, if that is your purpose.

 

"he is never married" Committment phobe?

"He is divorced" Now he is bitter?

"he works a lot" Workaholic?

"He doesn't work much" Immature and not ready?

"he lives far away from home" Has a bad relationship with his family?

"he lives close to home" Mommas boy?

"He goes out with buddies" Still thinks he is in college?

"he doesnt go out with friends" he has no friends, loner?

It seems as if the flag seekers are too busy thinking with their brains about finding "the one", instead of just getting to know someone and using their intuition.

 

If I meet a woman, I know quickly if I am interested or not. I am not thinking of "flags" in a cold methodical way. If I am thinking of flags, I am 100% sure there is no interest on my part.

 

And in summation, there is nothing more annoying than going on a date, and being asked silly questions that are open to interpretation, and you know exactly why they are asking them. To look for flags. To judge you without knowing. To make their own judgment as if they are in too much of a hurry to get to know you.

[konfuzd]

I would be curious to know whether he's told any girls he loved them.

 

The reason I bring this up is that my bf and I ran into his ex on the weekend. They had a really bad break up, and he holds a lot of contempt for her. She completely ripped out his heart, and was really awful to him. As a result, he claims he never loved her. I don't buy that, otherwise he wouldn't have been so hurt by the whole ordeal. He said he told her he loved her, but he only did so and stayed with her because it was just easier than breaking it off.

 

I think that some men can't cope with the fact that they've loved and lost, so instead they claim they never loved at all.

 

Not sure if this is the case, but it's possible.

 

There's always a chance too that he takes love seriously and just hasn't found that girl that makes his heart flutter, and all the other things that love brings along with it. He could be a true romantic, and it could actually be a very good thing.

[Star Gazer]

I would be curious to know whether he's told any girls he loved them.

 

The reason I bring this up is that my bf and I ran into his ex on the weekend. They had a really bad break up, and he holds a lot of contempt for her. She completely ripped out his heart, and was really awful to him. As a result, he claims he never loved her. I don't buy that, otherwise he wouldn't have been so hurt by the whole ordeal. He said he told her he loved her, but he only did so and stayed with her because it was just easier than breaking it off.

 

I think that some men can't cope with the fact that they've loved and lost, so instead they claim they never loved at all.

 

Not sure if this is the case, but it's possible.

 

There's always a chance too that he takes love seriously and just hasn't found that girl that makes his heart flutter, and all the other things that love brings along with it. He could be a true romantic, and it could actually be a very good thing.

 

Definitely possible.

[Trialbyfire]

No one likes to be the target of an irrebuttable presumption:

See, this I don't get. No one person is universally attractive or dateable. When a generalized statement is made, it doesn't mean there aren't exceptions or more importantly, that it's a personalized message to be taken internally and harboured as a resentment.

[Lishy]

I vote that she gives him a chance