Is THIS a red flag?

[Star Gazer]

LOL yes but she stayed!

 

A. I wouldn't go to a womans home whom I am not attracted to.

 

You intentionally avoid the fact that I did not know I was not attracted to the guy until I got there and realized just how overweight he is. He also revealed ridiculously disgusting feet at his house. Our first date, which was in a dimly lit restaurant where he was wearing a very, very flattering outfit, allowed him to appear much more attractive.

[Krytie TV]

If you had been a fly on the wall, it would have been very obvious to you that the message I was sending was, "Back the eff off, as soon as DeAnna Pappas chooses her suitor, I'm outta here!"

 

I can imagine that image. "You are so freaking lucky the Bachelorette is on or I would be SO freakin gone!" I must admire your commitment to trash TV Star.

[bones1]

Why are you in his home, telling him what to do, and then staying even after all the forced kissing and groping?

 

How would you feel if you were attracted to a man and invited him over... You made a move and his mannerisms are saying "gross get away. back the eff off". But he stays to watch the rest of his tv show, lol.

[Star Gazer]

I agree with much of this. It's one thing if you already know your date is a gentleman and you make plans to get take-out and watch tv at home and something else if the man in question has already displayed questionable behavior and you've had a less-than-stellar first date followed by text tomfoolery.

 

Given that he initially offered dinner and a show which then become an evening at his home based on your desires, I do see where he may have gotten a mixed signal about your intentions.

 

I don't see how I sent him mixed messages whatsoever. He offered dinner and a show, I agreed. Then I joked that I should probably postpone that date too (as I had done before), because my real date was with Jason and Jesse (the dudes on the show). While on the couch watching the show, my body language was very clearly "do not touch." I kept my plate on my lap until he removed it, and then clutched my empty wine glass like it was my last possession on Earth. I was not open to physical contact. Guess you had to be there.

 

Any mixed messages should have been negated by her attempts to push him away. That he continued to try with less than acceptable tactics, makes him nothing but a pig.

 

Exactly. I not only physically rebuffed him, but told him that I did not want to be engaging in physical activity.

[Star Gazer]

I can imagine that image. "You are so freaking lucky the Bachelorette is on or I would be SO freakin gone!" I must admire your commitment to trash TV Star.

 

I really, really am obsessed with The Bachelorette/The Bachelor. I cannot lie.

 

Why are you in his home, telling him what to do, and then staying even after all the forced kissing and groping?

 

How would you feel if you were attracted to a man and invited him over... You made a move and his mannerisms are saying "gross get away. back the eff off". But he stays to watch the rest of his tv show, lol.

 

I would think, "Ok, dude's totally not interested. Clearly I did something to turn him off," and would bid him adieu, not try again, and again, and again, and then stalk him the next weekend at the club and press my groin into his backside.

[Storyrider]

What was up with his feet? Just curious.

[bones1]

You just dont get it..

 

Maybe you should wait to see what a man actually looks like before you go to his home.

 

Are you that starved for company that you have to go to strange mens homes, and then sit there with your "do not touch me " look?

 

Sorry, you cant control everyone, or expect everyone to act a certain way. or expect that everyone will be happy to get rejected.

[Krytie TV]

You just dont get it..

 

Maybe you should wait to see what a man actually looks like before you go to his home.

 

Are you that starved for company that you have to go to strange mens homes, and then sit there with your "do not touch me " look?

 

Sorry, you cant control everyone, or expect everyone to act a certain way. or expect that everyone will be happy to get rejected.

 

Trust me, I understand the concept of debate and playing devil's avocate, but seriously. Two more pages of this won't get her to agree with you. Let it go man, just let it go

[Star Gazer]

What was up with his feet? Just curious.

 

He had really, really scary, dirty, somewhat long toenails.

 

:sick::sick:

[Star Gazer]

Trust me, I understand the concept of debate and playing devil's avocate, but seriously. Two more pages of this won't get her to agree with you. Let it go man, just let it go

 

So wise you are, darling.

 

Ironically, Bones was telling me to give this guy another shot earlier in this thread, and now he's mocking me for doing just that. Hmph.

[bones1]

So lets recap...

 

Man sticks tongue down your throat at end of date one and you felt uncomfortable.

 

His freinds text you crap..

 

You then decide it is a good idea to go be alone with him at his home.

 

Hello?????

[Star Gazer]

You're not going to convince me, Bones. Might as well drop it.

[StartingOver07]

You intentionally avoid the fact that I did not know I was not attracted to the guy until I got there and realized just how overweight he is. He also revealed ridiculously disgusting feet at his house. Our first date, which was in a dimly lit restaurant where he was wearing a very, very flattering outfit, allowed him to appear much more attractive.

 

So if you had been attracted to him, his actions would have been ok??

 

You already knew prior to going to his house that he was a guy who leads with his tongue. If he'd done this once in a parking lot, you had to have known he'd do it again in his home. So why the upset/surprise?

 

I don't see how I sent him mixed messages whatsoever. He offered dinner and a show, I agreed. Then I joked that I should probably postpone that date too (as I had done before), because my real date was with Jason and Jesse (the dudes on the show). While on the couch watching the show, my body language was very clearly "do not touch." I kept my plate on my lap until he removed it, and then clutched my empty wine glass like it was my last possession on Earth. I was not open to physical contact. Guess you had to be there.

 

This is insane. No, I don't have to be there. I would have assumed that your desire to watch tv at my house rather than go to dinner and a show was borne out of your desire to be alone in the house with me (assuming I was the guy here). It would be really difficult for me to think that a grown woman is so enraptured by a television program that that's the real reason she is in my house, not some desire to be with me!

 

If things were as awful as you say, why didn't you just leave? Surely a tv show is not worth all this?

 

 

 

Exactly. I not only physically rebuffed him, but told him that I did not want to be engaging in physical activity.

[Star Gazer]

This is insane. No, I don't have to be there. I would have assumed that your desire to watch tv at my house rather than go to dinner and a show was borne out of your desire to be alone in the house with me (assuming I was the guy here). It would be really difficult for me to think that a grown woman is so enraptured by a television program that that's the real reason she is in my house, not some desire to be with me!

 

Just because I have a desire to be at someone's house does NOT mean I have a desire to have sex with him. I reeeeeeeeeeeeally hope for YOUR sake that you don't make such assumptions when it comes to women you date.

 

I didn't "desire to watch TV at his house." I desired to watch the show, period. Where was of no consequence. I tried to postpone the date AGAIN so that I could watch the show (it was the finale, and as I said, I'm obsessed with the show).

 

Aren't there things you're into watching on TV? If the SuperBowl was on, and you're obsessed with one of the teams playing and I know it, do you think I'm going to think that because you're at my house for the purpose of watching the SuperBowl that I now have a green light to pounce on you, not once, but twice?

 

If things were as awful as you say, why didn't you just leave? Surely a tv show is not worth all this?

 

I did. 3 minutes after the boob grab.

[StartingOver07]

Just because I have a desire to be at someone's house does NOT mean I have a desire to have sex with him. I reeeeeeeeeeeeally hope for YOUR sake that you don't make such assumptions when it comes to women you date.

 

LOL. I am a woman and have no desire to date women!

 

Anyway, I never said that being at his house meant you wanted sex. Or even that he did! What I said was that turning down dinner and a show in order to get take-out and watch tv at his house can easily be construed as you being open to the idea of physical contact/making out/whatever.

 

I didn't "desire to watch TV at his house." I desired to watch the show, period. Where was of no consequence. I tried to postpone the date AGAIN so that I could watch the show (it was the finale, and as I said, I'm obsessed with the show).

 

Even after this guy acted inappropriately -- again -- at his house, you stayed... ostensibly because of your obsession with the show. If your obsession with a tv program is so significant that you remain in situations that are unsavory at best and potentially dangerous at worst, well... I think your obsession needs addressing!

 

Seriously, Star. Just look at the title of this thread and all the things you have said about the guy prior to the tv date. Why on earth would you place yourself in a risky situation? I know you are now going to claim that you were not in any danger because you know Justin through friends, but the texts you received prove that Justin's friends are not all that evolved themselves. So you've got a guy with poor impulse control, wine, and you -- alone in his house. That's not smart!

 

Aren't there things you're into watching on TV? If the SuperBowl was on, and you're obsessed with one of the teams playing and I know it, do you think I'm going to think that because you're at my house for the purpose of watching the SuperBowl that I now have a green light to pounce on you, not once, but twice?

 

If a man I had been on one date with -- a date that did not go well and ended with him thrusting his tongue at me in a parking lot -- asked me out again, I probably would not go. If I did decide to give him another chance, I would have accepted the dinner/show option, or maybe something low key like a drink or coffee somewhere public. No, I would not go to the house of a guy I barely know, whose behavior to date has been questionable, and who has demonstrated an inability to read (or listen to) my non-verbal cues.

[Star Gazer]

I don't know why you're now characterizing my decision to go over there as "risky"... Are you implying that I was opening myself up to date rape?

 

Regardless of whether going over there was wise - I agree that I shouldn't have gone at all, but again, hindsight is 20/20, and my decision to give him a second chance was prompted by the very same people in this thread who are now mocking my decision to do so - HE was still WRONG for REPEATEDLY trying to get was he CLEARLY was NOT.

 

And lest we forget the subsequent night of club stalking? Is that my fault too, after it was VERY obvious that I would not be interested in seeing him again?

[StartingOver07]

I don't know why you're now characterizing my decision to go over there as "risky"... Are you implying that I was opening myself up to date rape?

 

I am saying that it is risky to go to the home of someone you do not know, especially someone who has shown he lacks impulse control and cannot read/respect boundaries.

 

And lest we forget the subsequent night of club stalking? Is that my fault too, after it was VERY obvious that I would not be interested in seeing him again?

 

How was it VERY obvious you did not want to see him? Did you actually tell him this at some point or did you expect him to "read" this in you? He's already established that he can't or won't read situations!

 

It's not a matter of blame, SG. It's about making smart decisions and then acting in a manner that is consistent with those decisions. Why didn't you just tell him, politely but firmly, that you did not wish to have further contact with him?

 

If I wasn't within 10 feet of him, he was texting me asking me where I am. I was short in my responses to him.

 

If you don't want the guy to follow you around, you need to tell him so, not engage in passive-aggressive texting and hope that he will pick up on your lack of enthusiasm. Yes, clearly he is dolt for not doing so, there is no question there. But you did not operate in your own best interest and that is what you ought to be more concerned about imo. You can't control the jerks of the world but you can control how you respond to them and how much control over you, you give them.

 

You are so quick to shoot down posters here who do not agree with you, yet so slow to boot from your real life people who do not respect you.

[CaliGuy]

LOL. I am a woman and have no desire to date women!

 

Anyway, I never said that being at his house meant you wanted sex. Or even that he did! What I said was that turning down dinner and a show in order to get take-out and watch tv at his house can easily be construed as you being open to the idea of physical contact/making out/whatever.

 

I completely disagree with you on this point. I have had women over to my house and vice versa and I have never "assumed" sex was going to happen.

 

Even after this guy acted inappropriately -- again -- at his house, you stayed... ostensibly because of your obsession with the show. If your obsession with a tv program is so significant that you remain in situations that are unsavory at best and potentially dangerous at worst, well... I think your obsession needs addressing!

 

While I agree she should have left, he should have also behaved when she told him to. The fact that he kept crossing her boundary after she warned him several times was downright creepy.

 

It's not HER fault he can't contain himself.

 

Seriously, Star. Just look at the title of this thread and all the things you have said about the guy prior to the tv date. Why on earth would you place yourself in a risky situation? I know you are now going to claim that you were not in any danger because you know Justin through friends, but the texts you received prove that Justin's friends are not all that evolved themselves. So you've got a guy with poor impulse control, wine, and you -- alone in his house. That's not smart!

 

Regardless of the situation, his actions were far from appropriate. SG did nothing wrong in this sitution.

 

If a man I had been on one date with -- a date that did not go well and ended with him thrusting his tongue at me in a parking lot -- asked me out again, I probably would not go. If I did decide to give him another chance, I would have accepted the dinner/show option, or maybe something low key like a drink or coffee somewhere public. No, I would not go to the house of a guy I barely know, whose behavior to date has been questionable, and who has demonstrated an inability to read (or listen to) my non-verbal cues.

 

Granted those are red flags, but you can not fault her for being upset that SEVERAL times she told him to behave and he would not listen. She was a hair's length from being date raped.

 

Would you have excused him then and said it's SG's fault if she got date raped because the guy is an absolute a$$????

[StartingOver07]

I completely disagree with you on this point. I have had women over to my house and vice versa and I have never "assumed" sex was going to happen.

 

If you read what I wrote, I did not say he should assume she was there for sex. I said that her actions could be construed as a signal that she was ready for physical contact (not necessarily sex). Particularly given that he offered a night out and she was the one to counter with a night in.

 

While I agree she should have left, he should have also behaved when she told him to. The fact that he kept crossing her boundary after she warned him several times was downright creepy.

 

Agreed. I don't think there is any argument that he is a creep. However, he has been a creep since date #1 and all through the events leading to date #2. Knowing this, why proceed?

 

Granted those are red flags, but you can not fault her for being upset that SEVERAL times she told him to behave and he would not listen. She was a hair's length from being date raped.

 

I don't fault her for being upset, but being upset does not offer her any protection. Hence why I called her actions risky.

 

Would you have excused him then and said it's SG's fault if she got date raped because the guy is an absolute a$$????

 

Sigh. No, obviously it would not be her fault. There is no excuse for criminal behavior.

 

Look. You seem like an honorable guy. And as an honorable guy, you see this siutation just as you should: a woman says 'no' and that's that. But there are guys out there who are not honorable (just as there are dishonorable women, but that's another thread). SG cannot control the guy's honor. All she can control are her own actions. And given that she already knew this guy had problems with control and appropriateness -- heck, just look at the title of this thread and all the posts before the tv incident! -- she should have taken steps to maximise her own safety.

 

There is no point in looking at this situation from the perspective of honorable behavior, because that's not what this guy is about. And every woman, not just SG, needs to proceed with extreme caution when going to an unknown man's house, as once she is behind closed doors with him, there is not much from stopping him date rape if that's what he has in mind. It's not about blame, it's about safety.

[Star Gazer]

You are so quick to shoot down posters here who do not agree with you, yet so slow to boot from your real life people who do not respect you.

 

This is true. Workin' on it.

[Star Gazer]

There is no point in looking at this situation from the perspective of honorable behavior, because that's not what this guy is about.

 

Okay, I can accept that. I was simply getting fed up with being told that he was an honorable man, yet only out for sex, and that it was my fault that he behaved as he did and he did not deserve the label "creep" or "pig"...I thought you were on the Bones Bandwagon.

[CaliGuy]

If you read what I wrote, I did not say he should assume she was there for sex. I said that her actions could be construed as a signal that she was ready for physical contact (not necessarily sex). Particularly given that he offered a night out and she was the one to counter with a night in.

 

And that is where I disagree with you. She gave him several STOP signs, all of which he ignored. She wanted to watch her show, he wanted to go out. A compromise was made. He damn well knew she wanted to watch the show. Just because she agreed to watch it there does not mean in any shape/form/fashion that she would fancy any smooth moves from "Rico Suave"….

 

Agreed. I don't think there is any argument that he is a creep. However, he has been a creep since date #1 and all through the events leading to date #2. Knowing this, why proceed?

 

Perhaps she was trying to give him the benefit of a doubt.

 

Screw me once, shame on you.

Screw me twice, shame on me.

 

She lived, she learned.

 

I don't fault her for being upset, but being upset does not offer her any protection. Hence why I called her actions risky.

 

I agree, it was risky to go there, but I can't fault her for hoping there was some good in this man. Obviously there wasn't and now that she knows she can avoid him like the plague.

 

Sigh. No, obviously it would not be her fault. There is no excuse for criminal behavior.

 

Agreed.

 

Look. You seem like an honorable guy. And as an honorable guy, you see this siutation just as you should: a woman says 'no' and that's that. But there are guys out there who are not honorable (just as there are dishonorable women, but that's another thread). SG cannot control the guy's honor. All she can control are her own actions. And given that she already knew this guy had problems with control and appropriateness -- heck, just look at the title of this thread and all the posts before the tv incident! -- she should have taken steps to maximise her own safety.

 

There is no point in looking at this situation from the perspective of honorable behavior, because that's not what this guy is about. And every woman, not just SG, needs to proceed with extreme caution when going to an unknown man's house, as once she is behind closed doors with him, there is not much from stopping him date rape if that's what he has in mind. It's not about blame, it's about safety.

 

 

While I agree with you there, what I seem to be getting from your response is "Ladies, if you ever go to a man's house to watch a tv show and have dinner, expect that he'll want something sexual in return." I agree it's better to be safe than sorry but in this case I don't think she ever gave him any indication she was open to any sexual advances. Yes, she was in a bad position but it doesn't give ANY man the right to think "Hey man she's coming over to see me so that means she'll accept my advances" type of thinking.

 

It's not about honor. It's simply about mutual respect. Something this creep did not seem to have.

[CaliGuy]

Okay, I can accept that. I was simply getting fed up with being told that he was an honorable man, yet only out for sex, and that it was my fault that he behaved as he did and he did not deserve the label "creep" or "pig"...I thought you were on the Bones Bandwagon.

 

That's what I was hearing as well and why I disagreed.

 

He is a creep and a pig.

[grogster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StartingOver07

You are so quick to shoot down posters here who do not agree with you, yet so slow to boot from your real life people who do not respect you.

 

 

 

Why is that so surprising? It's much easier to refute an argument or slap down an anonymous poster than it is to reject a potential romantic interest. People are messier than argument. Gravity is much greater, and life more complicated, away from the keyboard. Posting makes life's choices sound so neat and easy. But it's only text.

 

I'd rather live well than post well.

[JP77]

 

He is a creep and a pig.

 

Just like, Fabio? Or could it be those men who fight in a woman's corner to gain extra points who are the real creeps and pigs? Discuss....